1994-The red phone rang and rang and rang again.....and no one answered.

[FrenchieCat]

Samantha Power was rightfully awarded the Pulitzer for her finely written and downright horrifying book "A Problem From Hell" which, in macabre detail, describes the calculated indifference of the Clinton administration when 800,000 Rwandans were being systematically butchered.

The red phone rang and rang and rang again. I don't know where Hillary was then. But her husband and his entire experienced foreign policy team - from the brass in the Pentagon to the congenitally feckless Secretary of State Warren Christopher - just let it ring.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/02/child,0.jpg
The Age's Sandy Scheltema was the first Australian news
photographer to arrive in Rwanda during the 1994 genocide.

And as more than one researcher has amply documented the case, the bloody paralysis of the Clinton administration in the face of the Rwandan genocide owed not at all to a lack of information, but rather to a lack of will. A reviewer of Power's book for The New York Times, perhaps summed it up best, saying that the picture of Clinton that emerges from this reading is that of an "amoral narcissist."

Former Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, who commanded the UN forces in Rwanda at the time of the genocide, tells us a similar story in his own memoir. General Dallaire recounts how, at the height of the Rwandan holocaust, he got a phone call from a Clinton administration staffer who wanted to know how many Rwandans had already died, how many were refugees and how many were internally displaced.

Writes Dallaire: "He told me that his estimates indicated that it would take the deaths of 85,000 Rwandans to justify the risking of the life of one American soldier."

Eventually, ten times that many would die. And our response? A handful of years later, at a photo-op stopover in Kigali airport, Bill Clinton bit his lip and said he was sorry.

More..... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-cooper/clinton-genocide-and-a-c_b_90436.html

When good people do nothing ...

For once, the word "decimate" is used correctly. It means to kill one in 10 of a population, and this is what happened in Rwanda. More than 800,000 were killed in 100 days. The daily killing rate was said to be three times that of the Holocaust.

What are the necessary conditions for a genocide to take place? Though each has its particular, terrible set of circumstances, there are commonalities. There needs to be concerted, government-level incitement. One part of the population must be convinced the targeted group is the cause of its troubles. There needs to be envy and resentment. There needs to be a culture of obedience. There needs to be dehumanisation of the targeted group. Then there needs to be meticulous planning.

On April 20, the Security Council voted to withdraw all but a few UN troops. Later, Dallaire was to tell the Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda that if he'd had a well-armed force of 5000 he could have halted the genocide in a week.

The world powers were reluctant to describe the killings as genocide because, under the 1948 Genocide Convention, that would have meant they were obliged to act. So "never again" happened again.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/02/child,0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/02/1080544692164.html&h=177&w=400&sz=23&hl=en&start=78&um=1&tbnid=eUm3iUD_lYQauM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtears,%2Bchildren,%2Brwanda%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-US%26sa%3DN

After 800,000 lives gone because no one answered the phone,
who answers in the future really matters.
I prefer sound judgment and not a Political Jitsu Master
to answer that damn phone!

"Why did the United States not do more for the Rwandans at the time of the killings? Did the President really not know about the genocide, as his marginalia suggested? Who were the people in his Administration who made the life-and-death decisions that dictated U.S. policy? Why did they decide (or decide not to decide) as they did? Were any voices inside or outside the U.S. government demanding that the United States do more? If so, why weren't they heeded? And most crucial, what could the United States have done to save lives?" - Samantha Power, from her article, Bystanders to Genocide -
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200109/power-genocide


read Samantha Power's Books!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519995KGS7L._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,32,-59_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518PGQHK38L._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,32,-59_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

[NMMatt]

1. Excellent post -nt

[FrenchieCat]

2. It is really just so unbelievably sad......

to the point to when I imagine in my head the ad of Hillary answering the phone in that ad, I see myself throwing a shoe at the TeeVee and yelling at it, "where in the fuck were you, Ms. Ready on Day one with 35 years of fucked up experience?"

[MagsDem]

49. It's sad you couldn't find anyone but an Obama campaign worker to quote

And it's sad you don't know jack shit about basic history, like when we stopping genocide in the Balkans.

[EmilyAnne]

52. Do you have a problem with basic chronology?

FIRST, Stephanie Power wrote a book about the Rwandan genocide.

AFTER THAT that she received a Pulitzer prize for the book.

AFTER THAT she became an Obama campaign worker.

And, by the way, genocide happened in the Balkans and a lot of fumbling on the part of the Clintons helped it along. Hillary Clinton is puffing up her role in that region, either way.

Its laughable that YOU think you have a better grasp on basic history than Stephanie Power.

[FrenchieCat]

67. Samantha Power.....

Stephanie Powers was the actress. :hi:

[rodeodance]

86. Another** Obama Advisor had to RESIGN today--He was sending out these 3 am

phone ringing emails--now we see it used in the OP!






http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5025635&mesg_id=5025635

[PraiseTheMessiah]

61. Case For George Bush

Freeing the oppressed people of Iraq from the murderous Saddam Hussein. Are you suggesting that the United States should be the world police?

[FrenchieCat]

70. I suggest that when we can do good, we should......and we could have.....

and we didn't.

[jackson_dem]

3. What a cheap smear. Now the Clintons are genocidal?

Rwanda happened so quickly they couldn't act, nor did they know the full extent of what was happening. Did Bill learn from that? Yes. He intervened to stop genocide in the Balkans twice. How about showing some unity and posting his true record on genocide? Bill has done more than just make speeches.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Like I said, no one answered the damn phone.......

But they knew...and they could have acted.
How many months make 100 days?

If he couldn't have done anything, he didn't need to apologize, but he did.

Bottomline is, too many bad decisions from both of the Clintons for me.
I'd rather they not have anymore opportunities to ignore or answer the red phone.

And as far as your excuses, they are full of shit.

[jackson_dem]

5. The Clintons did stumble a bit in their first two years due to inexperience in DC, foreign affairs

;)

He intervened twice to stop genocide in the Balkans. Obama didn't even intervene to help his constituents get heat in the midst of winter in Rezko's government-financed (re: Obama secured government money for his "friend") housing....If he couldn't do that we are to expect him to go around the world intervening in every conflict in the world and playing the role of a global superman? Is Barack Obama's platform that he pledges to be more interventionist than his immediate predecessors?

[FrenchieCat]

7. Clinton was begged to intervene in the Balkans....which he

finally did, during the Blue Dress controversy.

The Clintons lacked good judgment when it came to a whole lot of things.....

see Iraq.

[jackson_dem]

9. The Blue Dress was found in 1994?

Come on. You are going at great lengths to smear two good people in your zealous support of Obama. There are many fair things to criticize the Clintons over. Painting them as genocidal killers crosses the line.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Talking about Kosovo.......

can you read?

In the Senate of the United States Sitting for the Trial
of the Impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States
EXCERPTS OF VIDEO DEPOSITION OF MONICA S. LEWINSKY
(MONDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 1999, WASHINGTON, D.C.)

SENATOR DeWINE: If not, I will now swear the witness.

Ms. Lewinsky, will you raise your right hand, please?

Whereupon, MONICA S. LEWINSKY was called as a witness and, after having been first duly sworn by Senator DeWine, was examined and testified as follows:

SENATOR DeWINE: The House Managers may now begin your questioning.

MR. BRYANT: Thank you, Senator.

Good morning to all present.
http://australianpolitics.com/usa/clinton/trial/0102lewinsky.shtml

-----------------------
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT ON JIM LEHER NEWSHOUR
February 4, 1999

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, there are really three outcomes to this. If the Serbs do not comply, and are not, one -- either don't come to the table or are not fulfilling their obligations then they are open to air strikes and that decision has already been taken by NATO and is in, so to speak, the back pocket of Secretary General Solana who after consultation with us and other NATO allies could use air strikes to make clear to the Serbs that they need to comply.

A need for U.S. troops?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: The president today said that we are seriously considering -- and I believe that there are compelling reasons to seriously consider -- having Americans in that force, because I think there are fundamental American national interests involved in what is going on in the Balkans and in Kosovo.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/jan-june99/albright_2-4.html

[MagsDem]

48. You are SO ignorant about history

You constantly post this crap that shows you know nothing about history at all. Were you in a coma? Clinton convinced NATO to go into the Balkans in Jan 1996, moron.

[andym]

8. Rwanda wasn't due to inexperience so much as it was the earlier experience in Somalia

I think Rwanda wasn't due to inexperience so much as it was the earlier experience in Somalia. He just drew the wrong conclusion.

[jackson_dem]

10. You are right. Somalia made Bill gunshy

My comment was more in general about his first two years where he screwed up domestically and in some cases abroad. Once he got used to the office of the presidency Bill was a productive president who gave us peace and prosperity. He gave us results, not mere words.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Bingo!

Wrong being the operative word.

[City Lights]

31. Judgement versus experience. eom

[catgirl]

32. Off topic much? Trying to turn the tables as usual?

"The Clintons did stumble a bit in their first two years....", so we can look
the other way, huh? And a smiley face? Genocide = a smiley face.

Perhaps Samantha knows the Clinton's better than most of us, and my
guess is she was qualified to call Hillary a monster.

[Occam Bandage]

45. So, you're saying that they couldn't quite figure out

how to deploy troops to a region for six years? Bush managed to figure it out within a year. Are the Clintons six times stupider than Bush?

[blm]

54. Bill Clinton knew enough about foreign policy to deep-six the BCCI report FOR Poppy Bush

and protect him on all the outstanding matters involving Jackson Stephens, Dubai and Saudi royals, Bin Ladens, AQ Khan, Marc Rich, Adnan Khashoggi, James Bath....

Didn't he?

Clintons were GROOMED by Jackson Stephens who bankrolled their political careers and Bill's primary race.

Clinton fucked up BIGTIME by doing what BushInc needed because he was put in place to protect BushInc - he was doing his job.

[Window]

20. You need to do some research.

[catgirl]

33. Read what Bill Clinton's comments were

He needed many more deaths before he was going to do anything about the massacres.
Genocide was clearly happening and chose to do NOTHING. He just couldn't be bothered.
He knew exactly what was going on.

[MannyGoldstein]

96. Billary Sure Acted Right Quick On The Aspirin Factory Of Doom

As soon as he/she/it had actionable intelligence that aspirin was being made in Sudan, that factory was toast. Fortunately, he/she/it was not paralyzed by the previous night's blowjob confession.

[FrenchieCat]

6. More.....

So far people have explained the U.S. failure to respond to the Rwandan genocide by claiming that the United States didn't know what was happening, that it knew but didn't care, or that regardless of what it knew there was nothing useful to be done. The account that follows is based on a three-year investigation involving sixty interviews with senior, mid-level, and junior State Department, Defense Department, and National Security Council officials who helped to shape or inform U.S. policy. It also reflects dozens of interviews with Rwandan, European, and United Nations officials and with peacekeepers, journalists, and nongovernmental workers in Rwanda. Thanks to the National Security Archive (www.nsarchive.org), a nonprofit organization that uses the Freedom of Information Act to secure the release of classified U.S. documents, this account also draws on hundreds of pages of newly available government records. This material provides a clearer picture than was previously possible of the interplay among people, motives, and events. It reveals that the U.S. government knew enough about the genocide early on to save lives, but passed up countless opportunities to intervene.

In reality the United States did much more than fail to send troops. It led a successful effort to remove most of the UN peacekeepers who were already in Rwanda. It aggressively worked to block the subsequent authorization of UN reinforcements. It refused to use its technology to jam radio broadcasts that were a crucial instrument in the coordination and perpetuation of the genocide. And even as, on average, 8,000 Rwandans were being butchered each day, U.S. officials shunned the term "genocide," for fear of being obliged to act. The United States in fact did virtually nothing "to try to limit what occurred." Indeed, staying out of Rwanda was an explicit U.S. policy objective.

During the first three days of the killings U.S. diplomats in Rwanda reported back to Washington that well-armed extremists were intent on eliminating the Tutsi. And the American press spoke of the door-to-door hunting of unarmed civilians. By the end of the second week informed nongovernmental groups had already begun to call on the Administration to use the term "genocide," causing diplomats and lawyers at the State Department to begin debating the word's applicability soon thereafter. In order not to appreciate that genocide or something close to it was under way, U.S. officials had to ignore public reports and internal intelligence and debate.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200109/power-genocide

[amborin]

11. another insane smear post: we are not the world's police...why not Sri Lanka now?

or Myanmar? or Chechenya?

hmmmmmmm.....to name just a few places

[FrenchieCat]

16. We are not the world's police!

Right!

But we are in Iraq.

[amborin]

24. which is why Samatha was is so hypocritical

you just admitted it, unwittingly surely

but admit it you did

[catgirl]

34. Sure, go after a human rights campaigner instead of the deserving person

aren't you clever. Bleck (gag).

[ekwhite]

57. You know, one problem with having so many people on ignore...

is that it is hard to know what everyone else on the board is so incensed about. But then again, I don't have to get my blood pressure up about it either.

[FrenchieCat]

95. That was what one would call.....

:sarcasm:

[Window]

22. Who do we have left to send anywhere

[European Socialist]

26. I agree. I'm for Obama--but not this smear.

[FrenchieCat]

39. Why did Bill Clinton apologize and call it one of his biggest mistakes

if it is a smear?

Smears are occurrences that aren't true.

This event happen, and Bill Clinton admitted to having misjudged it all.

In other words, he said he should have answered the phone, but didn't.

[European Socialist]

53. If we had major riots in the USA, I wouldn't expect help...

from other countries. I don't think our soldiers have a duty to be everywhere--we have to choose our fights carefully--they need to be pulled from Iraq.

[FrenchieCat]

69. How carefully? This was proposed to be a U.N. action......

so I think we could have afforded to get involved. If not, what else are we powerful to do? Just kill people, and that's it? :shrug:


I disagree.

When you can do good, you should.

[Catherina]

12. Recommended

Every April They Remember

[amborin]

15. that we go into Myanmar? and stop the monks' slaughter?

and Sri Lanka now?

[FrenchieCat]

17. 800,000 Rawandans were left to die by the Clinton administration.....

and that's the truth.

Your excuses are full of shit.

and you know it....

otherwise Clinton wouldn't have his photo-Op saying sorry over there.

Even he knew that he hadn't answered that red phone when he should have.

[amborin]

25. no, 500,000 were left to die by the Hutu militias

[FrenchieCat]

47. right.....800,000 in large part cause the phone wasn't answered.....

because we knew, and some didn't deem it important.....till after the fact.

[amborin]

51. why aren't you agitating for immediate invasion of Sri Lanka?

why not Myanmar?

nonsense argument you make as usual

[FrenchieCat]

18. So do I!

:cry:

[Window]

19. I will never forget that.

K/R


:kick:

[Tennessee Gal]

21. Trash Bill Clinton.

That is a really good way to fight Republicans. NOT!

[FrenchieCat]

23. The Republicans didn't want to go into Rwanda either......

So, no, this isn't a Republican fight; it's a "when the phone rings, depending on the political climate, sometime it doesn't get answered, no matter the consequences" argument for Sen. I can answer that phone like no one else can Clinton.

[Tennessee Gal]

27. Your post is still a trash of Bill Clinton.

[FrenchieCat]

68. Maybe that's what he deserved, I know what 800,000 Rwandans

didn't deserve!

[Occam Bandage]

43. There are two issues that I find it acceptable to outright trash Bill Clinton on.

1. Ignoring the Rwanda genocide.
2. The Iraqi sanctions, which killed half a million children while not weakening Saddam's grasp on power.

[amborin]

28. sickening Samantha posing w/ her plastic water bottle, while so many Africans have no potable water

[FrenchieCat]

38. Samantha Power shouldn't drink water in the U.S.?

No comments on that dumbshit.

[amborin]

50. too ignorant to know plastic water bottles are the sign of total scorn for the world's poor

they are killing the environment

squandering money that could be used to provide potable water systems to those without

but you are too busy spewing crazy lies to know

[FrenchieCat]

71. Well it's good to know that you don't give a shit about people.....

You defend what the U.S. did versus what they could have done when talking about human lives, and then point a finger at a platic water bottle as an excuse to call both me and samantha Power ignorant. :crazy:

I hope you are not representative of a typical Hillary supporter. I would have to hope not, for her sake.

[amborin]

93. describing yourself i see

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

29. Bill chose wisely

We don't need to send our military into every civil war that pops up around the globe. If we sent anyone to Rwanda, then they should be wearing light blue helmets. I wish he'd stayed out of the Balkans, too.

I wish Bush was as smart, and had not re-escalated the Iraq conflict. I wish Bush #1 was as smart, and had not started the Iraq conflict.

It's a good thing our country has infinite wealth and can spend like crazy on war, with no impact on our economy.

[FrenchieCat]

72. Sick

and sad you are.

Don't they call people like you libertarians; let everyone survive if the can, die if they must?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

75. I don't think libertarians are fond of light blue helmets

but I'll ask Ron Paul next time I see him.

[JVS]

30. call back when it's something politically expedient!

[catgirl]

35. Great post FrenchieCat

K & R

[not_too_L8]

36. WOW!! ...K&R ..n/t

[CarbonDate]

37. This issue is bigger than our primary election.

Not saying you're wrong to post it (I posted it on my blog), but I wish it wouldn't take an election to talk about this stuff.

I think it's important to examine where the candidates stand on these types of issues today:

http://www.24hoursfordarfur.org/main.php

Hillary Clinton gets an "A+" on the Darfur Scorecard (the "+" coming from an amendment she sponsored to the Defense Authorization Act), although a cursory glance didn't reveal anything on her campaign website. If Clinton supporters could find something on there, I'd appreciate it:

http://www.darfurscores.org/hillary-clinton

Barack Obama gets an "A" on the same scorecard. Again, I couldn't find anything on Obama's campaign website, but he did have a video statement up front on the "24 Hours for Darfur" site above.

http://darfurscores.org/barack-obama

I think Rwanda is a useful object lesson, but I also think Clinton learned from his mistake, and it's not one Hillary is likely to repeat.

I know this functions as a useful counter to Clinton's "red phone" question, and really, given her husband's sketchy track record on "red phone" moments, they might have been wise not to raise it. Something about glass houses. But I do think it's important to give credit where credit is due, and both Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama have been solid on the most prominent issue of genocide today.

[FrenchieCat]

46. Yep....experience at making mistakes....whether

Rwanda, The Iraq war vote, NAFTA, etc....

very reassuring, not.

[AtomicKitten]

40. The Clintons must have forwarded that WH red phone message to voice mail.

The US's impotence on Rwanda was shameful.

K&R

[AZBlue]

41. k/r

[Barack_America]

42. Do African nations even have the number to the red phone?

You'd never know it.

[MagsDem]

44. Is your candidate campaigning on being the world's policeman?

No, he sure as hell isn't. Because he would lose by a landslide if he did. Somalia, Haiti, Lebanon, and Bosnia. If I remember correctly we were a little busy. Are you sending YOUR son to stop genocide and all bad deeds around the world? I fucking doubt it.

[kryckis]

55. There's no excuse.

It breaks my heart that no one intervened on behalf of the people of Rwanda.

And it's not about America being world police. Claiming that Bill Clinton did the right thing is just incredibly selfish and sad.

The USA is the most powerful country in the world and with that comes responsibility. Responsibility does not mean turning your back on the rest of the world, and that includes starting illegal wars and ignoring genocide.


Bill Clinton did many good things. He was a great president. But he fucked up big time on this, and there's no excuse.

[orleans]

56. i agree. and it breaks my heart too. k&r for this thread. n/t

[ekwhite]

58. The Clinton administration's response to Rwanda was abysmal

They may not have been responsible for the genocide, but they have blood on their hands none the less. I wonder if this would have gone on so long if they hadn't been black?

[PraiseTheMessiah]

59. Samantha Speaks The Truth

...just like the other day when she clearly stated that Obama's campaign talk to end the war in Iraq in 2009 (within 12 months of taking office) was clearly outside the best case scenario of withdrawing within 18 months.

[PraiseTheMessiah]

60. Did DU'ers Take Action?

How many here spent the money to buy an airline ticket so that a Rwandan could escape the genocide taking place there? Yea, I didn't think so.

[grantcart]

62. If only they had a little bit of oil k and r

[AX10]

63. Samantha Power is really a lowly turd.

[PraiseTheMessiah]

64. Case For George Bush

Freeing the oppressed people of Iraq from the murderous Saddam Hussein. Are you suggesting that the United States should be the world police?

[PraiseTheMessiah]

65. Somalia 1993

Clinton did engage in a humanitarian mission in Somalia in 1993. The result was the loss of 45 of our servicemen. Do you think Clinton may have thought that another such engagement was not politically viable?

http://americanmemorialsite.com/somalia.html

[Cha]

66. hilary being the ostrich she

is had no idea the debate and backlash she would excavate with their recycled 3am ad.

Thanks for the excellent post, Frenchie.

[caligirl]

73. funny cartoon today I saw- Its 3 am and the WH red phone rings, Bill

says to Hillary, Hillary you get it because I'm having a beer with Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

76. !

Yes.....

But being able to do this thread is really a sad commentary on who we really are as a people. :(

[Scurrilous]

74. Kick

:kick:

[rodeodance]

77. Cheap-shot on Bill Clinton. Shame on you. Samatha Powers brought her

demise on herself.
Now you use this terrible incident to make a political point.

[FrenchieCat]

78. So ask Bill why he apologized about this being one of his biggest

failings?

Go talk to Bill about his hindsight.....and it wasn't an incident. Incidents don't take 100 days and 800,000 lives no matter how much you want to minimize it to make a political excuse!

But yeah....let's shame me....while you are at it....for bringing it up, as though you would like us to forget.

[rodeodance]

79. You are making a political statement using these horrible deaths! and

yes it was his biggest failing.
That does not excuse your behavior. shameful

[FrenchieCat]

81. No, I am calling attention to articles written by others......

because regardless of what you say, it doesn't erase a thing.....

And know that progressives don't regress. We may forgive, but we don't forget when the phone doesn't get answered.

[rodeodance]

83. It is you that are using them for your purpose of smearing Bill Clinton.

[FrenchieCat]

85. Whatever.

You excuse mass genocide, yet grovel at the feet of the Clintons. Figures.

[eilen]

82. I am on the fence about the US

getting involved in the domestic affairs of other sovereign nations. I think if we do, it should only be through international bodies like the UN or NATO. We have a reputation of sticking our nose in when it's not wanted. On the other hand, I almost feel compelled to urge our leaders to do something to stop what is happening in Darfur. But then, remember Somalia? That was a very dark time.

While our actions in WW2 were instrumental in ending the war, it came at a big price, notably, Hiroshima, Nagasaki... we have that. That we ended a Holocaust (which many people today deny existed in the ME) -- that was the best thing we did I think, to halt Hitler. But we didn't do it alone, we did it with our allies.

We left well enough alone in Cambodia and Pol Pot couldn't shed enough blood it seemed. Where were international bodies then?

Iraq... I just wonder if sometimes we should leave a tyrant's fate to his countrymen. There are just too many of them. I just wonder, how do European nations justify inaction in these matters? How comfortable are we sending American troops under the command of a foreign (although international) command?

[FrenchieCat]

84. They were asking for 5,000 U.N. Peacekeepers......

isn't that why they are called Peacekeepers?

Wasn't that the problem Jews had in Germany. No one wanted to get involved? Too messy?

I'm sorry, but I don't see the justification of sitting at home in front of the Teevee and/or a computer, and just not giving a damn. It's heartless.

[eilen]

87. My point was that it is complicated

there is potential to do a great amount of good, and the potential it will be a quagmire and a mess. I think it is probably best to assist the UN or NATO. But what if the UN and/or NATO chooses not to help?

[rodeodance]

80. *See this--An Obama Advisor is sending these 3 am emails--He resigned

yesterday===He was another Samantha Powers!!

Rovian style emails:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Thorne had to resign today -Obama Advisor GLBT leadership council: Another Yalie Embarrasses Obam
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5025635#5025635
5025635, Thorne had to resign today -Obama Advisor GLBT leadership council: Another Yalie Embarrasses Obam
Posted by rodeodance on Tue Mar-11-08 05:57 PM

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/03/maxim-thorne-another-yalie-embarrasses-barack-obama.php

Thorne had to resign today from Obamateam (GLBT leadership council: Another Yalie Embarrasses Obama

2maxim_031108_fresh.jpg

Another Barack Obama adviser had to resign today after making incendiary statements about Hillary Clinton. Maxim Thorne, formerly a chief at the Human Rights Campaign and, until today, a member of Obama's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/ Transgender Leadership Council, recently e-mailed a lengthy anti-Clinton screed that began by declaring Clinton "a disaster for the Democratic Party" and went on to question Hillary's whereabouts "when Monica was having sex with Bill" and assert that "when Bin Laden was building Al Qaeda, Bill and she were fighting impeachment, fighting Paula Jones, fighting Katherine Wiley." Thorne resigned almost immediately after the e-mail surfaced.

Thorne has an undergraduate and law degree from Yale, making him the third Yalie in recent weeks to embarrass Obama with an apparent inability to grasp a fundamental rule of campaign warfare (namely, don't speak freely). Also Yale grads: Austan Goolsbee, who allegedly told a foreign government that Obama was just kidding about his opposition to NAFTA, and Samantha Power, who told reporters that Clinton was a "monster" and that Obama might keep troops in Iraq longer than he's saying on the campaign trail.

By Nick Curran 03/11/08 5:05 PM

.........

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Obama_backer_Clinton_lies_and_stolen_election.html

Original email:

From: Maxim Thorne
Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 8:46 pm
Subject: Clinton lies and sleaze

[Skidmore]

88. The personal pecadillos of Bill Clinton did contribute to

the nation's eyes being averted from much in the world. I personally don't care if the Clintons get their collective undies in a bunch because someone criticizes them on this front. A dalliance and a lie does not balance out thouusands of deaths and maimings half a world away. Sometimes political egos are not worth the sacrifice.

It is time for the Clintons to exit stage right.

[rodeodance]

89. it is wrong to use this horrible tragedy to make political points.

[Skidmore]

94. Which horrible tragedy?

The geneocide in Rwanda or Bill Clinton's screwing around. I'm not certain what you are talking about. It is a tragedy that Rwanda occurred on his watch and he didn't do anything about it.

[Deep13]

90. What the hell was he supposed to do?

That situation was way, way, wa-a-a-a-ay beyond our power to stop it.

[greguganus]

91. Excellent post, and oh so sad. n/t

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

92. "his entire experienced foreign policy team"

I'm hoping if Obama becomes president that RED PHONE doesn't ring because it seems he's using many of Clintons experienced foreign policy team.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4106377