we, as a party, are fucked. and i hate the packers.

[mathewsleep]

this was supposed to be the easiest election ever to win; but now we're building such a hatred for each other that who ever loses will feel wronged by the other and not turn out to vote. we're handing this election over to mccain. i started this primary season as a obama fan who liked clinton, and whom would like her presidency in the event that my boy lost. now however, is a different story.
let me tell you about the greenbay packers.
i hate the packers. i fucking hate the packers.
really though, i just hate their fans. i grew up in the upper peninsula of michigan, which borders wisconsin. we're much closer to greenbay then we are to detroit. yet we still live in michigan, so i figured most of us should be detroit lions fans. i was wrong. most of the people here are packer fans. but what ever, that's fine with me. no wait it's not fine with me because the packer fans are assholes. since they're fans of a state their not in, they get all defensive about the packers and treat the few lions fans like shit. i don't even like football. but seeing the way one side treated the other made me hate them. and in turn i grew to hate the team, not just the rabid asshole fans.
what i'm trying to say, is this infighting is making us hate not only each other,(damn i have a lot of people on ignore) but also, we're going to hate the opposing team. so much so that a lot of us won't want to see them defeat the greater evil.

we're fucked.

this post made no sense, by the way.

[leftofcool]

1. The Democratic Party is screwed as a whole

but that doesn't have anything to do with the posters here. We don't have that kind of power. We have piss poor leaders at both the national and local levels plus, the Dems are so bogged down in old and new scandals that Republicans are rejoicing.

[mathewsleep]

2. i was kinda hoping people would be optimistic.

i'm a huge pessimist, but i wanted people to try to prove me wrong.
i guess that makes me a self-loathing pessimist.

[leftofcool]

5. I tried optimism once........in 1972

It didn't work out well.

[mathewsleep]

6. mcgovern fan i guess.

another example of what happens to a divided party.
democrats for nixon.

[leftofcool]

10. Yep. He stood for hope and change and unity....

but in the end, it was his liberal war stance that killed him.

[mathewsleep]

16. it was more then that.

he had trouble with his vice president, the poor guy had electroshock and the media decided he couldn't be vp so mcgovern had to find a new one. and a lot of democrats hated mcgovern after he changed some stuff to strip away the power of party insiders during the primaries. some of them even campaigned for nixon, fucking turn coats.
everything when wrong for him. he's such a good guy though. america sucks for choosing nixon.

[IndianaJones]

3. you are probably right. nt.

[politicks]

4. The democrats do have an uncanny ability to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

[Tesha]

28. That's what happens when, as a party, you don't stand for anything and everyone knows it. (NT)

[mathewsleep]

30. huh?

what do you mean we don't stand for anything?

[Tesha]

37. We don't. We're not unified for ending the war. We're not unified for ending racism.

We're not unified on standing up for women's rights.
We're not unified on standing up for gay rights.
We're not unified on our approach to the budget.
We're not unified on opposing the Republicans.
We're not unified on education.
We're not unified on the need for single-payer health care.
We're not unified on support for unions or even a good days pay for a good day's work.
We're not unified on the need for a social safety net.
We're not unified on a sane policy for immigration.

Aside from the fact that Democrats mostly all believe
they deserve power more than the Republicans, on what
issue have the Democrats got a clearly enunciated,
well-understood, unified position that resonates with
the voters?

Tesha

[mathewsleep]

38. you're going to make me cry.

[rucky]

7. It's the cheese they wear on their heads

almost like a cult of curds

[mathewsleep]

8. ha!

[mathewsleep]

9. all they have are curds.

curds? just curds?

[rucky]

21. sorry, I meant to say "IN their heads" n/t

[Exilednight]

11. This the only party that can draw defeat from the jaws of victory. n/t

[politicks]

12. You just plagiarized me.

[Carrieyazel]

13. On the bright side, we will continue to take down the Repukes at the state/local level and Congress.

We are not fucked overall. Just at the presidential level. We are now the majority party below the presidential level. 2006 was massive and we WILL gain at least 10 more seats in the House, regardless of a McCain victory. Most likely even more.

We will gain more in the Senate too, as well as state houses. We have the majority of governorships and will keep mowing down the Repukes there for the foreseeable future. Again, McCain's showing will not be relevant here.

But for some reason, in the presidential race we are cursed. The Repukes nominated the one person on their side who can win, and the bitter infighting, bad luck and recriminations continue to dog us at the presidential level. But if we can consolidate our gains elsewhere, the Repukes will be the minority party in Congress and states for a long time to come.

[mathewsleep]

29. i'd love to see a two thirds majority roll over mccain on everything.

he'd be the weakest president ever. and not just because he can't life his arms above his head.

[calico1]

14. As Democrats our major strength is

fighting to the death amongst ourselves while the Republicans practically coast to victory. How much of a hard time has McCain gotten? Not too much. But there sure is a lot of Obama vs. Hillary and Hillary vs. Obama hatefests. We are willing to destroy each other to prove a point and to have the last word. And in the meantime McCain gets a free ride. Nice, isn't it?

Oh I totally understand your sports comparison. I live in CT and the same thing happens here with Giants vs. Pats fans or Yankee vs. Red Sox fans. Huge fights over them. And none of the teams even play in our state.

[Barack_America]

15. This Troll would like to tell my Yooper brother...

I'm sorry. And thanks for staying true to Detroit.

[mathewsleep]

17. you are a troll. at least you admit it.

the redwings rock.

[Barack_America]

20. I think it's a cute name for us lower peninsula folks.

What else would we be? Mittenites?

ETA: And if you think that Packers fans suck, I pray for you that you never have to deal with Eagles fans. U-G-L-Y! And, what's worse, their hockey team does nothing to redeem them!

[mathewsleep]

23. well you live under a bridge.

there's no better word to describe you. by the way, where do you live down there?

[mathewsleep]

18. what's worse

is that all the packer fans up here turn into redwings fans during hockey season.
if you betray detroit for football you can't turn around for hockey.

[cliffordu]

19. I have to disagree.....

Inside the fishbowl that is DU, yes, you could get the impression that we are toast....but this is just a self-indulgent immature MINISCULE subset of the democratic party. Mostly a bunch of people who like to read the rants they type. Including me.

My family looks at me like I'm crazy when I describe the goings on here.....I spent a couple days away from the computer and when I came back I felt I had to take a bath after an hour on this site, the signal to noise ratio is off the charts. Disgusting. I like it with popcorn, though.


:popcorn:

So: Chill out, go for a walk and smoke a smoke or have a beer, or sex, or something that will put you back in touch with the REAL world.....this is a fine place to watch the train wreck that is 'extreme democracy', but it IS just one tiny website that caters to a very loud group o' folks, not the Dem party as a whole.

[mathewsleep]

22. finally

some who has hope. i'm an obama fan and i don't have any hope. that's just sad.

[tandot]

I agree with what cliffordu said

sometimes I have to remind myself that DU doesn't really reflect what is going on in the Democratic party as a whole.

There are some extremely passionate supporters on both sides and some who passionately dislike both of the candidates. Throw in some freepers for good measure and you'll have one nasty hate-fest going on after another.

We'll get it together once the primary is over and we have a nominee.

[Dinger]

24. I LOVE The Packers!

[mathewsleep]

25. ohh that's cute.

farve is leaving you.

[Dinger]

26. We Had Him, You Didn't

[mathewsleep]

27. didn't want him.

after that dog incident. *cold shiver*

[DemVet]

34. Must be a Lions or Bears fan. The cities of perennial LOSERS. :)

[mathewsleep]

36. i don't really like foot ball.

so much as i hate the packers.

[salbi]

43. I'm a Bears and Cubs fan...I know about hoping next year is better...

I grew up a bears and cubs fan...we are the eternal optimists, all we ever have is hope for the future. And our hatred of the packers...

[mathewsleep]

47. i lived in wrigleyville for a while last year.

they do love their cubs.

[Nickster]

51. Amen to that.

[Dinger]

62. Favre Makes Announcement:

[WilyWondr]

39. You had me going

Andre Ware was who you wanted, huh?
or was it Gus Frerotte?
or how bout Charlie Batch?
or Ty Detmer?


:rofl:

[mathewsleep]

41. i have no idea who any of those people are.

all i know is farve...
never mind, i'm not going to repeat the story about the dog. i won't stoop that low.

[Dinger]

61. How'd That Work Out For YOUR Team? (nt)

[DemVet]

31. I LOVE the Packers also. All Hail our retiring hero, Brett Favre.

[mathewsleep]

35. farve is not the jesus of football, sorry.

jesus is! he can throw a football 300 yards. he can run 80 miles an hour. and he doesn't slip when the field gets wet from rain. ohh, and he can feed the entire stadium fish and bread, so that's cool.

[DemVet]

40. Then he's the Apostle Paul of football. n/t

[demokatgurrl]

32. It made PERFECT sense to me!

Without mentioning which of the two media-selected candidates I lean toward, I will say that I don't dislike the "other candidate" nearly as much as I do most of that candidate's more vocal followers. And the dislike is becoming so strong I would find it very hard to vote for that "other candidate" just because I don't want to be associated with that group. And because they are so hostile and self-righteous.

But as a Gians fan, I have nothing against the Packers.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. rrrrrresommended!

well voiced rant!

[mathewsleep]

70. thanks.

[Liberal Dose]

42. If anyone hands it to McCain, it'll be Diebold. We will all come out and vote for the Dem nominee,

no matter what anyone says here. It's what we do. :hi:

[MagsDem]

50. Not this year

[ChairmanAgnostic]

44. I can hate the packers, but I admired Brett Favre. even when he kicked our

butts, as often as he did.

but Hillary has brought this on herself.

[mathewsleep]

46. i think she wants mccain to beat obama in the general

so she can run again in 4 years. on the "i told you so" ticket.

[tachyon]

45. Made sense to me...but then I have yooper/packer-fan friends

:evilgrin:

[mathewsleep]

48. who are they!

i want names and addresses.

[tachyon]

55. Polaks from Iron Mountain.

:D
That's all the address yer gittin'
;-)

[mathewsleep]

56. bastards.

[tachyon]

60. I didn't even tell you the worst part. They live in Tampa now

and won't even go to Bucs games! :silly:

[mathewsleep]

67. what ever to those people.

you call them your friends?

[MagsDem]

49. Obama thinks to much of himself...

.. to actually gain experience, so this is what we have. He DEMANDS to be made president when 3 yrs ago he was a state senator. And half the people rightly think that is foolish, so there you have it. The great uniter is a divider, just like Bush.

[GarbagemanLB]

52. Hillary is behind in states won, delegates, and popular vote. How is Obama to blame?

[MagsDem]

58. State's won doesn't mean jack, first off...

And if I hear another Obama supporter say that I think I will have to categorize you all as terminally ignorant. Secondly, when you actually count the votes of all that have voted she is ahead in the popular vote count by 20K. Which is to say the party is completely divided between the two.

Obama is inexperienced and has no qualifications for the job. But the media loves a good first black candidate versus first woman candidate story. If not for that he would have been told to sit down, shut up, and get more experience under his belt. He is simply too arrogant not to take advantage of the media hype.

The great uniter knows he is splitting the party in two. Hell is is demanding it in FL and MI.

[GarbagemanLB]

68. You include Michigan and Florida in the popular vote? What a joke! The REAL Popular vote totals, the

ones ALL the newscasts and analysts are using is the one that shows Obama with a comfortable lead. Don't try your Rovian number manipulations.

[GarbagemanLB]

69. Experience? You mean Hillary going to Bosnia and tap-dancing on stage with Sinbad? Or going to Irela

nd and claiming to have helped the peace negotiations when the Nobel-prize winning head negotiator says she DIDN'T play a part? Again, your Rove-like twisting of reality is pathetic, and clearly the majority of voters in the Democratic primary agree. He has won more states, more votes, and more delegates, and she has almost no chance of completely closing any of those gaps. But hey, you and your 'girl power' gals always have 2016!

[politicks]

53. Yes, it's all Obama's fault.

Hillary's been a gem this whole election process. Like when she said McCain would be a better president then Obama. She's so much better then him.

Not!
Hillary IS a monster.
She plays dirty.

And sorry to have to remind you. Obama is winning. He leads on every front. So, Ha!

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[politicks]

63. If Obama would lose for those reasons,

Then Hillary would lose for the same reasons.
And as for experience, going over to Ireland and giving speeches doesn't qualify you to be president. That's all she did over there, so get off you high horse and realize she doesn't have more experience.
Obama has been elected to way more public offices then she has. He's spent as much time in offices then Bill did when he was elected. So eat crow.

[Beacool]

74. I hate disloyal people!!!!!!!!!!

Hillary campaigned for him, fundraised for him, he modeled his first years after hers (by his own admission) and he sought her advice. So, what does this great guy do to his friend? He announces he's going to run for president after only being in the senate for 2 years!!!!!!

He could have waited, build up his resume and run in a few years. It would have been great to have 2 firsts in the Democratic party: the first woman and the first African-American president.

I'm so disgusted that at this point, I'd rather see a cactus in the WH than Obama!!!!!!!!


:banghead:

[mathewsleep]

77. you're right,

it's hillary's turn. bush-clinton-bush-clinton.
oops, my bad.

[rodeodance]

54. nothing but a whin

[politicks]

57. Ass.

[raebrek]

64. Go Vikes

You know many Minnesoooootan's were Packer Fans because befooore they got da Vikes that was the closest team ya you betcha. Now when I went to college in southern MN my landlord was still a hardcore Packer fan cause he never made the switch. I live in Florida now days but I am still a hardcore Vikes fan "Go Vikes". I feel I must maintain loyalty to my team until they either win dat dare Super Bowl or the team moves to a different state. Then I guess I could be a Jag's fan. There is something about being loyal to yourself and your team. Sorry to see Brett retire, I never thought he was through when the media turned against him the past few years. I hope they got another great QB so they can stay competitive. I think that the Lions will do even better this year too. I don't know about Chicago though. I still miss Tampa being in our division.

Rabrekk!!! "Go Vikes" Minnesooooota

[K-Check]

65. Whoever DOESN'T get the nomination

will have to play a lead role in healing and uniting the party.

And Aaron Rodgers will have to heal the Packer fans.

[mathewsleep]

66. who do you think would try to heal the party if they lost.

do you think obama or hillary would try to unite the party.
for some reason i can't imagine hillary trying to help obama if she lost. she's already said that mccain would be a better president. i don't know, i hope i'm wrong.

[BenDavid]

71. We had this won until Obama decided he needed to "unite us"

Now look at us. Hell obama was the only person that has gained power by splitting the party and getting Democrats to fight Democrats.

[LisaL]

72. Yep.

It's not looking good.

[saltpoint]

73. For someone who claims not to make any sense, you sure do make a lot

of sense, mathewsleep.

I like the Lions better than the Packers and the Bears and Vikings also better than the Packers, but I think your point on division is a good one.

I'm supporting our ticket but feel that Obama right now is running the far superior campaign. The latest spew out of Geraldine Ferraro's mouth has really cast a pall over the procedings.

I stopped by to read your post and I'm glad I did.

[mathewsleep]

76. thanks,

friend.

[Nailzberg]

75. I hate the Packers, too. And the Lions.

But Brett Favre sure made them fun to watch. The rivalry will never be the same. And I sure had fun watching Barry everytime he was handed the ball. Talent is talent even when they suit up for your division rival.

The rest of your post I just don't get. Go Bears!