Why Obama's TX win is important...

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

When the goal is to win the most delegates in TX and you win the most delegates, you win the state. Estimates have Obama netting 3-5 delegates there.

When you win the most popular votes in a state but lose the delegate count, you lose the state. Your campaign should've turned out the right voters in the right places. (Sorry, Rush.) Obama's tacticians did what they were supposed to do.

But, but....what about the general? When the goal is to win the popular vote in the general to carry the electoral votes in a state and you win the most popular votes, you win the state.

True, but if you think the primary's Rush-enhanced popular vote in TX means anything, then why are McCain and Obama knotted in a statistical tie in TX head to head, while McCain crushes Hillary by 7%?

Obama WON Texas and actually puts Texas in play this fall. Clinton lost TX and would've lost it again this fall (unless she can get Rush on-board again).

http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/03/06/electoral-math-as-of-030608-obama-280-mccain-258/

[BzaDem]

1. ...Obama gets more people voting for him TWICE, and therefore he wins. How will that help in the GE?

Luckily the media disagrees with you here. They said NV was a win for Hillary, and TX is a win for Hillary. Not that the MSM is a saint, but at least people like you who claim Obama wins TX are a very tiny minority.

[flpoljunkie]

2. Not the point.Obama will put more red, purple states in play in November, than Hillary ever could.

[BzaDem]

9. Obama will do better in red states. But not purple.

Polling shows that Hillary does better in purple states.

And in purple states, Hillary doing better means winning. These states had 1-3 percent margins. And winning purple states means winning presidency.

In red states, Obama doing better means going from a 15 point loss to a 10 point loss. He is not going to win most of the red states people on DU are claiming he is going to win. And even if he won a few (which would be extremely unlikely), they don't even add up to the 20 EVs that Ohio has, the 27 EVs that Florida has, or the 20 EVs PA has.

[MagsDem]

16. Not according to current polls he can't

http://hominidviews.com/?p=1325

[Barack_America]

37. Feb. 18 is not recent. Fortunately, the following polls ARE...

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/election_2008_presidential_race_state_by_state_snapshot

And show that Obama takes FAR more swing states over McCain than does Hillary.

[dchill]

50. "February 18, 2008" - that's "current?"

Another undeniable MagsDem factoid. Keep pushing the baseless talking points, but it's not going to do you or your candidate any good. Some people don't believe that the existence of a link is proof of anything - they actually read them.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

3. check the link, check the poll, and sheath the rhetoric

[tridim]

4. Hillary's people could have voted TWICE too

But apparently they're either too lazy, or they just don't care. Obama voters are engaged and politically active. That's a good thing.

[BzaDem]

6. So what? Since when do you weight votes based on how active they are? Hill has 100k lead in TX.

[tridim]

Take it up with the Texas legislature.. It's not my rule

Obama won Texas by the rules. Deal with it.

[nebula]

33. So its wrong to gain votes within the rules,

but perfectly acceptable to get them through the use of
GOP-style fearmongering and swiftboat campaigning?

If you think Shillary plays it fair and square, think again.

[tekisui]

42. The caucus is design to force the candidates to build a team on the ground.

Texas can't be won with big ad buys, and speeches. It requires the campaign spend time in the state, out people in the state. It take knocking on doors, and getting the word out, and listening to the residents of the state.

This is what has happened this entire race. Obama is a bottom-up, grass-roots/net-roots organization. Clinton is an old-style top-down, big donor organization. She doesn't put in the time or the boots on the ground. It's why she loses every caucus.

[FedoraLV]

46. Yes

In the GE we want informed, highly committed voters who are willing to go the extra mile -- who will volunteer for voter registration drives, GOTV efforts, and for all our candidates on every level of the ticket.

-FedoraLV

[damntexdem]

12. Easy, those of us who learned the rules and followed them ...

and bothered to turn out a second time, in a very-crowded venue, are likely to be those who will WORK for a candidate in the general election.

You don't like Texas' "vote early and vote often" rules? Then, if you live here, push to change the rules. Don't try to move the goal posts after the ball has not only been kicked but has gone between the uprights.

[mod mom]

17. Check again, NPR & MSNBC have called TX for Obama-more delegates!

[rcsl1998]

21. Yea!!! I Can't Wait To Vote Twice In The GE!! Oh, Wait, Um That's Right...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. All these wins are important, but Texas is EXTRA special!

[TexasLady]

10. LoL Yah, we are!

Not only are we surrounded by idiot repukes, most of us are related to them!(as many redstaters are!)
:P

[MagsDem]

7. Obama wants to count people that voted twice in TX

... because that is the only way he can spin a win out of a 51% to 47% LOSS. But the doesn't want to even count the FL voters once.

When do people actually get a clue that Obama has more in common with George Bush than any actual democrat?

[SoonerPride]

15. Delegates = electoral college votes

Don't you even know how the system works?

I learned in civics class 30 years ago.

Sheesh.

Open a book.

[MagsDem]

19. No, delegates do not = electoral college votes

You need to retake that civics class, because they have NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH to do with one another. My god, BO supporters are the most ignorant people I have seen since the Bushbots of 2000.

[TexasLady]

18. Hi Mags!

I dunno about that, after going to Crawford for 30+ days straight alongside Cindy, I respectfully disagree.
I live in an area that laughed hard at my kids and me for that. Hell my own repuke-extended family called us traitors.
I don't think Hillary OR Obama are anything like that sonuvabitch.
:hi:

[MagsDem]

20. They'll both look you in the eye and lie to you...

... and they both don't want votes counted that aren't votes for them. That's all I need to see to know they are way too much alike. Oh, and one more thing -- they both think they were sent from God to be president.

[TexasLady]

24. well that went well.

[Kittycat]

43. No idea what she said, but...

I've found it far more sane around here with that one on ignore ;) Your "Mags" gave it away, LOL.

[TexasLady]

47. Yeah, Im a sloooow learner

LOL
hi kittycat!
:hi:

[damntexdem]

28. It was stupid of the Dem Party to declare that the FL vote would not count.

But it DID; and Obama followed the rules.

And there should be a revote in both FL and MI. Any attempt to seat their current "delegates" without a revote SHOULD be opposed by voters who sat out those contests because they would not count.

But I won't be so disgusting as to suggest that HRC is not a Democrat. I leave such tactics to those in another camp I could name.

[salbi]

29. Obama wants to play by the rules...

Obama didn't set up the two step way of voting in Texas but he did win it and the votes should count

[LSK]

41. actually Texas wants that as thats how they designed their system

[blogslut]

8. I see it that way

Texas has 34 electoral votes - winner take all.

I honestly believe that Barack Obama can take Texas in the General Election. Texas could go all the way blue. Won't that be something?

[MagsDem]

14. He can't win an open primary there, but he can win the GE?

State polling there shows him losing to McCain by 13 pts. Losing FL by 10%, losing OH by 4%. Your guy cannot beat McCain.

[blogslut]

32. Polling?

You're not paying attention. Why rely on polls when you have the recent primary election?

Texas experienced an earth-moving increase in Democratic voters for this year's primary. Half went to Clinton. Almost half went to Obama. Those new Democrats have to come from somewhere and cross-over mythology aside, those new voters want a Democrat to be president. Texas wants to vote Dem in the GE and the turnout backs that up. What will make a difference, to Texas, is who is running in the GE. Put Hillary Clinton as the candidate and I guarantee, Texas Republicans will flood the polls to vote against her. If she loses Texas, she loses 34 electoral votes.

Obama's win with caucus voters in Texas shows that this newly energized Democratic movement in our state supports Barack Obama. Caucus voters are absolute Democrats and not repubs in disguise. There was a major increase in Democratic caucus participation on top of the primary turnout. There were no cross-over games at our caucuses.

This is my belief and only my belief, but I think Barack Obama will be able to maintain and nurture my state's reborn Democratic party. I think he will keep the majority of voters that gained here, for Democrats, in the GE. I think that if you want Texas to go Dem this November, go Obama. In the GE, Texas may not like Hillary Clinton so much. I think Barack Obama can retain Texas gains. If Texas Democrats show up to the polls like they did this March, Barack Obama will get 34 electoral votes.

[Labors of Hercules]

11. Finally, someone who compares oranges to oranges.

The winner should be determined according to the game you are playing. Hillary people like comparing golf scores to football scores... It makes them feel successful.

[mod mom]

13. Here's Rush helping Hillary in TX & Ohio:

? What might have actually happened in Ohio and Texas? Tin foil hat?
? Clip:
: "Rush, I understand that the Rush Limbaugh audience is mobilizing in Texas for Hillary. Am I hearing that right?"

: "I don't know if the audience is mobilizing or not. I am urging people — I am using a phrase — the Republicans — our nominee is chosen. It's John McCain.

Texas is open. And I want Hillary to stay in this, Laura. This is too good a soap opera. We need Barack Obama bloodied up politically, and it's obvious that the Republicans are not going to do it and don't have the stomach for it.

As you probably know, we're getting all kinds of memos from the RNC saying not to be critical there. Mark MacKinnon of McCain's campaign says he'll quit if they get critical over Obama.

This is the presidency of the United States you're talking about. I want our party to win. I want the Democrats to lose. They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It is fascinating to watch, and it's all going to stop if Hillary loses.

So yes, I'm asking to cross over and, if they can stomach it — I know it's a difficult thing to do to vote for a Clinton — but it will sustain this soap opera, and it's something I think we need. It would be fun, too."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=609&Itemid=113

[Crooked Moon]

22. obama didn't win texas.

you can say it until you're blue in the face, but aside from wonks and political junkies who want to spin it, it'll fall on deaf ears.

(note that some of these do detail caucus results, but do NOT supercede the primary results (nor do they warrant a cutle little "projected winner" checkmark/star, etc.)

CNN: clinton wins texas
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#TX

ABC
http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/state?state=TX&ref=ipb

MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21660914#TX

CBS
http://election.cbsnews.com/campaign2008/state.shtml?state=TX

NYT
http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/TX.html

but, by all means, keep catapulting the propaganda.

[Johnny__Motown]

25. He is defining more delegates as a win. your links are only counting the primary, not the caucus

[MagsDem]

26. Caucuses are crooked and rigged

He lost TX by 100K votes. Get over it.

[theredpen]

31. I'll bet you have a "Gore lost, get over it" bumper sticker

It's funny how caucuses were fine in Nevada. Oh yeah, Clinton won Nevada.

[Crooked Moon]

27. i know what he's doing.

i am aware. so, it would be more accurate to say, "obama won more texas delegates."

not that he won texas.

like it or not, with the varied primary and caucus rules and myriad methods of apportionment, the state is called for the one with the popular vote.

hillary won texas.

[tandem5]

23. now see that's an interesting argument - "right voters in the right places"

I suppose then you think Mississippi is fair too then? Obama is set to pull off a similar net in popular votes that Clinton did in Texas, but he'll probably only gain one or two delegates. Mississippi like Alabama (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#AL) is gerrymandered along racial lines so I suppose if Clinton wanted to she could target very small areas in such a way as to actually win in delegates, but lose by 18-20% - right voters, right places... right?

[dempartisan23]

30. yep

hillary clinton is rush limbaughs candidate

[nebula]

38. She's Limbaugh's candidate

because Limbaugh knows she would be utterly destroyed in the GE.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Hillary Won Texas By A 4% Margin. Shame Obama Couldn't Take The Big State.

[rug]

35. For anything to be important, it must first exist.

[hell-bent]

36. WTF!

The man loses the state of Texas by 101,082 votes and he wins the state? What kind of undemocratic bullshit is being tossed around here? And, we criticize the voting process in Cuba, Russia,etc.? If Hillary receives the most Democratic primary votes(popular vote), she should win the nomination. You Obama surrogates are suggesting that it's not who the majority of voters want; it is who was the most clever in procuring delegates. How democratic and noble are your tactics......:sarcasm: You must of picked up some tips from the Bush team and how to win elections. It will come back to bite you in the ass come November. P.S. If Obama wins the popular vote with Florida included; then, he should be the nominee.

[Barack_America]

39. Check out Alabama. And see how much Obama won the popular vote...

and how that translated into delegates. Let's not pretend that this goes just one way.

[nebula]

40. If the tables were turned in Texas...

Let's say Hillary had won TX by the delegate count, but Obama had won the popular vote,
do you think you would still be whining about how unfair and 'undemocratic' the system was?

No, you would not.

[krkaufman]

44. Which is why the TX scenario you describe ...

... is a good refutation of the Clinton camp's deceitful attempt to now throw-out consideration of the delegate count entirely, as the metric for choosing our nominee, and instead base the choice strictly on the popular vote.

The Clinton camp is run-by and filled with scumbags who will stop at nothing for more power.

[jmg257]

45. Not only more pledged delegates, combined w/his 600,000 popular vote lead, she will have little

standing when the convention comes. Superdelegates will have no choice but to gObama.

[hell-bent]

49. I believe you are in error

about the popular vote. With Florida(were he campaigned with illegal ads)counted, Obama has a slim lead of 308,831 votes. That will quickly evaporate with the results in Pennsylvania.Again, if Obama wins the popular vote, then he should be the nominee. Also, there should be a re-vote in Michigan. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[jackson_dem]

48. Obama lost in Texas and everyone except for Obamanation realizes it

Even the caucus hype, which includes folks who already voted in the primary, is based on only 41% of the results being in. The caucus is obviously biased against working folks, the elderly, and immigrants--all core parts of Hillary's base.