The blatant Obama campaign and media sexism against HRC

[MagsDem]

So they make sexist comments about HRC daily, elevate Obama to demi-god status, and play the race card daily.

The media (KO show) with KO and Howard Fineman just informed us that HRC and Ferraro got where they are because they were "affirmative action hires" and because they were connected to powerful men. Then tell us it's racist to suggest that Obama is as well. That is how blatantly sexist the coverage of HRC is.

Of course the media is going to attack Ferraro. What she is saying is that the media has created him as a media darling because he is black. And they don't like being called on that shit. But it's fact. Elizabeth Edwards made the same point about why John could not get any press coverage. Again, that's a fact.

The Obama campaign has advanced this sexism as well, HRC "has her claws out" by Obama. Other comments by him that she is just having an "emotional day" when she questions him on policy issues. "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

Obama and his supporters have consistently claimed that her 35 yrs in politics have meant nothing. Her ground breaking trip to Bejing meant nothing -- pundits were ridiculing it on MSNBC today. Her work on SCHIP, nothing. Obama characterized her earlier attempts at universal health care as "hollering" at republicans. Really? Since when has a male politician been characterized as "hollering" for pushing their policy proposals?

Basically zero media coverage of the jackasses at her campaign rally holding up signs and demanding she "iron my shirt."

Obama again, suggested HRC's work in politics has been nothing more than attending "tea parties." “It’s that experience, that understanding, not just of what world leaders I went and talked to in the ambassador’s house I had tea with, but understanding the lives of the people like my grandmother who lives in a tiny hut in Africa,” he said.

Fuck, has Obama ever even BEEN to China?

And of course if her daughter campaigns for her like all candidates adult children do, she is "pimping out" her daughter. And then there is Chris Matthews adding horns to her head on a picture of her he displays on his show.

Sexist political cartoons such as this:



And that is just a small sampling. Obama has benefited mightily from sexism in this campaign, and has remained silent.

It's fucking ridiculous at this point. It's fucking ridiculous that woman are half the population of this country, and this patriarchal bullshit is still so rampant.

God forbid someone actually mention that Obama is a creation of the media. And that they wouldn't have created him if he were John Edwards -- a white guy, and certainly not if he were a woman of ANY COLOR, by the way.

[thunder rising]

1. Somebody is seriously desparate! Seriously "has HIS claws out" see it doesn't infer anything

[MagsDem]

15. Show me where anyone has EVER said that about a male candidate

I anxiously await. I also haven't heard them called shrill, scolding, or any other typical pejoratives males like to use to marginalize women.

[texshelters]

31. For men they say "fangs"

Tex Shelters

[MagsDem]

56. Which male politician has been accused of having fangs?

If it's so common shouldn't be hard to find an example, right?

[adapa]

19. What if someone said, in reference to Obama- 'He got his fur up' What's the difference?

What's the difference between
Iron my shirts to hillary and
Shine my shoes to obama?

ALL of it is repulsive.

[MagsDem]

25. Except no one said that to Obama

[JeffR]

2. Why not just admit you don't like African Americans and be done with it?

Why not just admit you're not a Democrat and be done with it?

Why not find a discussion forum where people of your ilk are comfortable and be done with it?

[Fredda Weinberg]

4. We can be angry about our own victimization w/o being accused of

prejudice against others. If you disagree, state a position ... but history is on our side.

[JeffR]

11. Fredda, I think sexism is deplorable

but I don't put what I define as deplorable on a graduated scale.

The poster here has crossed the line more than once with racist innuendo. The current tack seems to be resorting to charges of sexism. As I said, sexism is deplorable. But so is using the decrying of it as a stalking horse for something equally deplorable.

I'm sorry to see you defending the OP, because any validity it might have in general terms is more than belied by the motives behind it.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MagsDem]

7. You're right, I probably won't be after this election

I have voted for democrats exclusively for 30 yrs, but after 2004 and blame the gays, then this year and constant sexist attacks against Clinton I think the party has left me. I can't imagine ever working for or contributing to the Democratic party again after what I have seen this year. It has throughly digusted me.

[papau]

21. just about everyone I speak to (all seniors) feels the way you do - Obama destroyed the party by

playing the race card - claiming Hillary supporters comments "implied" racial overtones - with this being followed by otherwise intelligent people who let the color of skin and their justified abhorrence of racism blind them to the sexism of refusing to note that Hillary did nothing wrong - and that they were being led by the nose by sexist media that wanted to stop Hillary.

I do not see how Obama if nominated can ever win - about 1/4 of the Hillary supporters per the polls will vote for McCain and I believe another 1/4 of the folks I know as Dems for Hillary will stay home. This happens every time we let the Starbucks crowd run the party (as in 72).

[KAZ]

37. Go. just leave. Good luck to you.

[PinkTiger]

78. I love they way the Obama lovers hijack the threads.

Why don't you just go away???

[MagsDem]

88. Right because Obama can win without ANY HRC supporters, right?

That's what we keep hearing. I hope HRC supporters take you up on that.

[KAZ]

34. Good. Get lost.

[csorman]

59. Bye!

[LulaMay]

3. K & R for The Truth

[Johnny__Motown]

5. Ferraro herself said that she only was on Mondale's ticket because she was a woman

I suppose she is a sexist too?

[bowens43]

6. What's fucking ridiculous is all of the 'poor hillary' posts.

The fact is that Hillary is a piss poor candidate and always was. She is widely hated not only republicans but by independents and even many Democrats. Hillary is the same old shit and everyone knows it. Don't blame her losses on the press or the trumped up 'sexist comments' charges. She's losing be cause she's a power hungry , opportunist who will do or say anything to get in power. She is losing because most of us are able to see her for what she is. We see that she lacks integrity. We see that she can't be believed. We see that her claims of superior experience are bullshit.

You want to talk about created by the press??? That's hillary. She has nothing to offer but arrogance and divisiveness. She has nothing positive to offer.

[MagsDem]

10. No, what is ridiculous are the NON-STOP sexist attacks...

.. that are completely accepted by people that claim they are democrats. If YOU folks are democrats then being a democrat is as bad as being a republican.

[OzarkDem]

30. Nothing like Obama whining about racism

simply because he doesn't want to campaign on the issues.

[Splinter Cell]

54. Best post

I've read in a long time. Thumbs up.

[TahitiNut]

8. POOOR Hillary! She just never had it as easy as Obama!!

With Senator Clinton's dimissal of the import and impact of "mere words" I would have never thought her supporters would both use them so recklessly and then be so offended by the response.

Stick and stones ... and all that?

[MagsDem]

12. It is pervasive, and democrats have forgotten they are democrats

Obama has created a group of people that are no better than the rethugs I have worked against for 30 yrs.

[movonne]

17. Many of us thinks the same about hillary...

[MagsDem]

24. Yes, because you are sexists

Otherwise, if you had a dime's worth of democrat in you, you wouldn't have tolerated it without saying a word for a year now.

[Mooney]

92. So is there any criticism of HRC that's legitimate?

Is there any criticism of HRC that can be made without it being attributed to sexism?

[MagsDem]

98. Sure, you can criticize her policy positions... and speak to the merits of lack thereof

... of them. What you can't do is pretend she isn't far more accomplished than he is. When you do that it's clear you just want to marginalize her because she is a woman. Because the facts just don't support the bullshit idea that she isn't accomplished.

[Mooney]

102. My whole problem with her has to do with her IWR vote

Is that OK?

[MagsDem]

105. It's okay, but it's also foolish

I would bet you have no idea what she actually said when she cast that vote. I have yet to meet a Obama supporter yet that does. To me it appears they are just too lazy to investigate the actual issues, more content to let the media do your thinking for you.

[Mooney]

106. So in other words, no, there's no crticism of HRC that's legitimate.

Thanks for playing.

[AX10]

9. One must discount MSNBC. They are squarely against HRC and..

pro-Obama.

As for this: The media (KO show) with KO and Howard Fineman just informed us that HRC and Ferraro got where they are because they were "affirmative action hires" and because they were connected to powerful men. Then tell us it's racist to suggest that Obama is as well. That is how blatantly sexist the coverage of HRC is."

Well, it's the left wing elites at work.

[Medusa]

111. Oh please, Dan Abrams LOVES Hillary

and gives her an hour of unadulterated love each night. :eyes:

[jackson_dem]

118. Abrams is an exception

Compare that to everyone else at MSRNC: Scarborough, Matthews, KO, Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Mika Brezinski (whose father endorsed Obama), and so on.

[Window]

14. Mags, give it a break already.

Think about your health.:banghead:

[OzarkDem]

16. Obama supporters love sexism

it makes them feel powerful to push others around, much as it does Republicans.

[Mooney]

93. Yes!!! I love sexism!!!

I love it! It's the best! Yay, sexism!

[Drachasor]

18. Those people aren't part of Obama's CAMPAIGN

Seriously.

As for Obama's comments, he was referring to most of her work as First Lady. Indeed, much of what Hillary did as First Lady was just for show and non-critical (that is true of most first ladies). Her experiences there do not give her better judgment in a crises, as far as anyone can tell and she has overplayed some of her roles (such as with Serbians). It certainly doesn't give her any executive experience (which she has claimed). Heck, most of the incidents she cites she didn't play a significant role in the overall problem (Ireland seems to be an exception, going by the Nobel Peace Prize winner).

Anyhow, most of what you are complaining about seems to be media problems (and small parts of the media at that). The media is NOT the Obama campaign. Indeed, it is pretty well documented that team Obama has a pretty bad time courting the media overall (though Hillary's campaign has alienated them).

[MagsDem]

22. Obama has been as sexist as the coverage

And your post is disgusting as well. What total bullshit it is for her to be attacked by people she has spent her entire public life in service to. It's patently ridiculous to suggest she wasn't a first lady involved in policy decisions. THEY CAMPAIGNED on that promise in 1992.

And Obama can go fuck himself with his "tea party" comments. It's as infuriating as Bush pretending to be some war hero, while portraying Kerry as the coward. It's disgusting beyond measure and I never thought I'd see the day when our base would buy into such crap.

You know what many democrats on DU are as far as I am concerned? They are people that shouldn't be a party that claims to support equality, that claims a meritocracy is valued, that claims it is not just the same old crap we see from rethugs.

[Drachasor]

36. Calm down

She hasn't spent her entire life serving the Democratic Party. That's just not true. Even if she had, that doesn't mean we should overlook any statement she makes that isn't backed up by facts. Did she play a decisive role in China? No. Did she play a decisive role in most of her first lady speeches? No. I am not saying those speeches had no meaning, but those speeches do not give her the right to say she has this great deal of experience dealing with foreign crises. It's different, but no better than Obama's time he has spent overseas. She has tremendously overstated her role in these speeches (she was not the point person in these situations, and largely just a bit player, and that's just a fact). There's nothing wrong with what she did as First Lady there, and indeed it is commendable, but don't make it out into more than what it is. Nearly all First Ladies give a bunch of speeches overseas, but that doesn't qualify them to be President or give them good judgment/experience when dealing with foreign matters for Presidential matters (though it doesn't preclude such experience either). They are largely "meet and greats" in other words.

As far as "tea parties," Obama didn't use that term (and if he had it would be offensive). He instead said that both he and Hillary had tea with foreign dignitaries (e.g. talked to them). He said he also had experience beyond that. I think you are reading too much into that statement. You certainly seem to be ignoring the blatant racism coming from some members of Hillary's campaign (such as Ferraro), and how her campaign doesn't distance itself from such people.

[MagsDem]

45. Even if she had?

This is just the kind of crap I am talking about. She has a life time of achievments in politics -- a life time! But she's just a woman, so of course his three years as a senator, most of which has been spent running for president, exceeds hers.

It's a joke to even pretend this party isn't full of disgusting sexists. Everytime Obama supporters open their mouth they prove it.

[Blue_Roses]

57. oh good grief,

I see "angry" people... and it ain't 'cause their candidate is losing.
:eyes:

[Drachasor]

60. Don't misconstrue what I said

I didn't say Obama has more experience than her (though I did say I thought his foreign experience is better than the foreign experience she got as first lady). Overall she does have more experience than Obama, but that doesn't give her the right to misstate the experience she has gotten. She is overstating her First Lady experience, that's a fact. Does she have other experience? Sure, and she can talk about that (and does). Should we ignore her incorrect statements just because of her lifetime of work? I think not.

That said, experience is GREATLY overvalued. Some of greatest Presidents have had little experience. Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, and others (and many of them were younger than Obama as well). Some of our worst Presidents have had the most experience (including executive experience. The worse President in the history of the United States was one of the most experienced, in fact. His name was Buchanan, and his lack of effort to stop Southern Succession or armament, as well as other major gaffes, helped caused the Civil War and helped make it far more bloody than necessary.

So yeah, she has experience. Yes, she has more than Obama. She has, however, overstated her experience (which is far, far less than McCain's, for instance), and has overstated the importance of experience. Calling her on these overstatements is NOT sexist.

[MagsDem]

66. He doesn't have ANY foreign policy experience

Hell, he won't even convene the oversight committee on NATO that he is supposed to be chairing. And Obama and his supporters don't call her on those claims that she has more experience -- they pretend she was just some little woman attending tea parties. THAT is sexist. And it's also bullshit.

[Drachasor]

94. Look up what you are talking about

Subcommittees don't DO anything, that's just how congress works. It's the full committee that meets and gets stuff done. This was blatant misrepresentation by Hillary in the debate. As part of the FULL committee he has done his job.

And you are being quite unfair to Obama supporters. In the exit polls most of them like Hillary just fine. They just don't think she is better than Obama. You are making your own spin against Obama supporters based on some elements of the media, and perhaps a few people on DU. Well, those media people aren't Obama supporters, nor are they a part of his campaign. DU is also not representative of the population at large, nor is a very small number of loud, sexist people representative of DU. Heck, look at what you are saying! Obama didn't say she was a "little woman" or that she was attending "tea parties." He said sitting down and having tea with foreign leaders doesn't not mean you have good judgment or management experience with foreign crises. Those are true statements. As for your association of "having tea" (which he implied he does too) with "tea parties" I think you are adding a sexist spin to a practice common in most parts of the world (from Britain to China and beyond). What he said wasn't sexist, but rather the words you add in are.

[americanstranger]

38. Seek help. Seriously.

I've never seen the level of rage that exists on this board.

Everybody's a sexist (except for those who proclaim anyone who disagrees with them sexist, of course), Democrats aren't Democrats, everybody's beating up on poor, poor Hillary.

You're lashing out at everyone at this point. You should take a break from this board and get yourself some Xanax, because you're going to bust a vessel if you maintain your current level of rage for too long.

- as

[MagsDem]

50. You're missing the point

The sexism in this race has been rampant, and your reaction is typical. So what? And go relax and stop being concerned about it. If I said Obama should just chill and go eat some watermelon, which is an equivelent statement to yours, would that be racist? My god, the world would explode if someone said anything like that. But when the equivelent sexism occurs us women should just go take a nerve pill and relax.

You make my point.

[americanstranger]

52. My point is that you sound completely unhinged.

Is your candidate losing really that important to you?

If so, you've invested way too much of yourself into the success or failure of another.

It ain't healthy, and you repeatedly prove my point. go read your own damn posts and tell me you're not losing it.

- as

[MagsDem]

55. Yes, all women that point out sexism are "unhinged"

and we should just take a nerve pill and relax. Yeah, I think you've made yourself clear with your pats on the head.

[americanstranger]

77. Nice dodge.

You do nothing but post insults towards Obama, non-stop.

Your allegations of 'sexism' would be easier to take seriously if they weren't crazy-glued to a non-stop stream of invective.

But what do I know? I'm just another 'sexist' in your pinched view of the world.

- as

[MagsDem]

81. Yes, yes, I know -- I'm just a silly woman and should be quiet

I told you, I get it. I'm just not playing. You need to get that.

[Drachasor]

96. Is there any way....

he could disagree with you and not have you label him a sexist? Because it looks like you are so eager to find sexism that you'll label almost anything you disagree with as sexist.

[MagsDem]

99. Not if he is suggesting that I should take a xanax....

and ignore the sexism against HRC. No, given that, you can't convince me he isn't a sexist.

[Drachasor]

61. The equivalent of that

Would be saying Hillary should go tend to her home or bake some cookies. Nobody has said anything like that and no one will, and it would be outrageous if someone said that.

That said, you are reading too much into this, and laying the blame on Obama for ANYTHING ANYONE in the media says that you don't like. He doesn't control everyone, and in fact his campaign isn't good at courting the media (look it up!)

[MagsDem]

67. Really? So when he said she merely had tea with world leaders

that wasn't exactly what he was saying? He knows that bullshit, but his response was to marginalize her as having tea parties.

[Drachasor]

97. Tea Parties =/= Having Tea with World Leaders

Most of the world has tea, and they don't call them "Tea Parties." Obama didn't call it a "tea party" for good reason, and I'd be denouncing him if he had. There's nothing sexist in what he said.

[MagsDem]

103. So what do you think he was trying to imply....

....by saying she merely had tea with them? Are you arguing he didn't use the word having "tea" for a specific reason related to her gender? That's a pretty lame argument that doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. She wasn't having tea with them.

"Hillary Clinton traveled to 79 countries during this time,<148> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<149> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in the People's Republic of China itself,<150> declaring "that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights"<150> and resisting Chinese pressure to soften her remarks.<148> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<151><152> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.<153" [br />
In addition, we know she was very involved in the Ireland / UK peace process. What did he mean when he implied her duties were limited to having tea with world leaders then?

[Drachasor]

108. That her experience isn't doesn't apply to crisis management and such

I think he was saying that she didn't do any heavy diplomatic lifting. She didn't negotiate treaties (unless I am missing something), or have to make any tough calls (3AM type stuff). The latter, in particular, her experience doesn't speak to. She encouraged people and spoke out against some things, but there was no crisis management or negotiations going on (well, the latter perhaps in a fairly small number incidents). Her role in the Ireland/UK peace process, for instance, was mostly encouraging women to get involved and work together. Laudable and far from insignificant, but that's a lot different than negotiating peace or handling a crisis.

[Upton]

20. excuses, excuses

Defend your candidate on the issues and stop whining over your imagined sexism.

[MagsDem]

23. Which specific example is imagined?

[Upton]

26. You've made the accusations

the burden of proof is on you. You know, believe it or not, a person can disagree with HRC and support Obama without being a sexist.

[OzarkDem]

28. Sorry, you made the accusation

put up or shut up.

[Upton]

32. I disagree

unless you have some proof of sexism, such claims are relegated to the trash bin.

[OzarkDem]

39. Got nothing, I see

[Upton]

40. I'm not claiming sexism

this fight should be won or lost on the issues, not because of gender or race. You disagree with that?

[MagsDem]

42. Then why all the sexism from the media and Obama?

I cited many specific exmaples in my OP. You claim they are imagined. Which ones did not actually occur and were "imagined" as you claim?

[Upton]

48. Your "examples"

are all extremely subjective, interpretation is the key. To be honest with you, I think for the most part the media and the Obama campaign have gone out of their way to avoid even the appearance of sexism.

[MagsDem]

51. Then you are so steeped in sexism you are oblivious

[MagsDem]

41. I posted specific examples in my OP -- you said they are imagined

Which incident was imagined?

[texshelters]

46. Thank you!

Those are good examples. In addition, not all supporters of Obama, nor Obama himself, are outright sexists. It is surprising that there are creeps that use the b work, c word, n word, or Nappy header words in this day and age and get paid to be on television.

Sexism aside, I would rather Janet Napolitano run for President. Except it might ruin her. Clinton is too aligned with the DLC for me.

Tex Shelters

[MagsDem]

53. Obama has been plenty sexist in this campaign

He has marginalized her lifetime of achievements, called her catty with his remark about claws, alluded that her work as first lady consisted of tea parties, and claimed that when she brings up a policy issue with him she is just being emotional.

It is THE typical patriarchal bullshit. I think after this election I may never vote for a male candidate again. And if women begin to without their votes only then will things change.

[Recursion]

65. It's not sexist to point out her lack of achievements

He has marginalized her lifetime of achievements

No; he's accurately pointed out that she doesn't have that many.

alluded that her work as first lady consisted of tea parties

It did. It's not sexist to point out that her time as first lady is not something that prepared her for the Presidency.

[MagsDem]

76. Sorry, that's just not a defensible statement to make

And it speaks of exactly the sexism I am talking about.

1) Bill Clinton campaigned on the promise that she would be involved in policy decisions

2) Every major figure that worked with her from Kennedy to Mitchel to Gene Sperling has verified that she was very involved in policy

3) During the health care proposals rethugs complained that she was too involved in policy proposals

4) She has an amazing record of advancing children's anti-poverty proposals, health care, women's rights, and on and on... and not as simply a spokesmodel as sexists like you would like people to believe.

She wasn't a "tea party" first lady, and even if you disregard all those accomplishments out of rank sexism, she STILL has more experience and accomplishments than he does. BY FAR.

[Recursion]

82. I'll stand by my lifetime of work for women's rights to ignore your gratuitous "sexist" BS

I'm not sexist and I have no need to defend myself, after the work I've done, against your baseless charge.

Bill ran on the promise that Hillary would be involved with policy. She was, until her first initiative (health care) alienated almost all of the left by being a giant giveaway to insurance companies. After that, at least according to All Too Human she was kept away from policy with a ten-foot pole.

She has an amazing record of advancing children's anti-poverty proposals, health care, women's rights, and on and on

I'm aware of these and I do admire them. I simply don't think they remotely add up to the "lifetime of experience" she talks about; they're slightly less impressive to me than Obama's victories in Chicago (and both of their achievements pale next to Edwards', Dodd's, Biden's, and Richardson's). She was a very effective lobbyist as first lady, and has been a moderately effective Senator. The rest of her adult life has been as a corporate lawyer. But "corporate lawyer" and "lobbyist", even for good causes, are not exactly the kind of experience I'm looking for in a President.

[MagsDem]

85. "a giant giveaway to insurance companies?" - you just showed that you're a fraud

You don't have the first clue what you are talking about. The rethugs and the health care industry are who killed the bill. A few facts:

"the core element of which was an enforced mandate for employers to provide health insurance coverage to all of their employees through competitive but closely-regulated health maintenance organizations (HMOs). The full text of the November 20 bill (the "Health Security Act") is available online.<17>

Conservatives, libertarians, and the insurance industry staged a campaign against the "Health Security" plan and criticized it as being overly bureaucratic and restrictive of patient choice.<18>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Clinton_health_care_plan

She was also not a corporate lawyer most of her life. You are simply talking out your butt hole, to be kind. Why not educate yourself before you look even more foolish?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

Now, regarding your "lifetime of work for women's rights".... Did that lifetime of work teach you to lie about the accomplishments of one of the most accomplished woman politicians of your time? I'm thinking it wasn't Emily's List your were involved with, huh? Or by life time of accomplishment do you mean that some of your best friends are men who don't shit on women's accomplishments? You're definitely a sexist if you can criticize her without having the vaguest clue what you're talking about.

[Recursion]

87. Then why does so much of the left agree with me?

the core element of which was an enforced mandate for employers to provide health insurance coverage to all of their employees through competitive but closely-regulated health maintenance organizations (HMOs).

Bingo. A giant giveaway to insurance companies.

[MagsDem]

90. Because they are clueless just like you?

And if it was such a giveaway to the insurance companies then why did insurance companies finance the ads used by rethugs to defeat it? Bingo, my ass. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Just another ignorant as the day is long Obama supporter. No wonder you are voting for him.

[Recursion]

91. It was small insurance companies and small businesses

You should check out the actual campaign against it a little more. It was small businesses who were worried about the mandates and small insurance companies who knew they wouldn't get a slice of the pie, and be forced out of business (which, for the most part, ended up happening anyways).

[MagsDem]

100. The ads were paid for by the Health Insurance Association of America

And they hardly exclusively represent "small insurance companies." In fact, almost every insurance provider in this country is a member.

http://www.hiaa.org/

Look you're talking out your ass to someone that works on health care policy for a living. I would advise you to stop making an ass of yourself.

[texshelters]

69. Marginalizing is not sexist!

He said "claws"! Oh, boy.

Has he made women wear a madras, seen prostitutes, or any other really harsh treatments?

So how is getting into Iraq helping women? How is lying about Obamas contacts in Canada helping women? How is she a real standard bearer for women? How was Ferraro?

Clinton acts all high and mighty about all the "experience" she has as if it will make her a good president. Why should Obama criticize her exaggerations?

Tex

[MagsDem]

79. Marginalizing her accomplishments as if they meant nothing

.... and then claiming she had tea parties is not sexist? It is on the planet I live on called earth. You're around the bend on the Canada NAFTA issue -- he did exactly what he was busted doing, and if I remember correctly, the canadian media busted him, not her.

She acts all "high and mighty" about her experience. You actually typed that and don't think you're a sexist? You certainly are.

[Recursion]

86. I think there's honestly a disconnect here

We factually disagree about the amount of stuff she actually has accomplished. Trying to deconstruct each other's motives for the disagreement probably won't be very productive until we come to some sort of agreement about what the facts on the ground about her accomplishments actually are.

I'll start:

After law school, she worked on Nixon's impeachment and got mixed reviews (I don't mean "so so", I mean alternately extremely positive and extremely negative depending on who was talking about her).

As first lady of Arkansas, she worked as a corporate lawyer and public celebrity. She did some good awareness campaigns about children in poverty. She also engaged in some questionable investments that came back to haunt the country for a decade or so.

As first lady of the country, she set back the cause of universal healthcare by two decades after shutting out grassroots, consumer, and congressional voices from the policy debate for her proposal. After that, she was pretty much barred from policy for the remainder of the term but did some effective lobbying; her biggest victory was probably twisting enough GOP arms to get SCHIP passed.

As Senator, she has done some very good things about children's poverty and women's rights. She also made the three greatest mistakes of her career: the IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, and the cluster bomb ban.

That, to me, are her accomplishments. What do you think?

[MagsDem]

95. I think you just reeled off the rethug talking points against her....

that are about 100% bullshit.

During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for Edelman's newly founded Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts,<54> and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children.<55> During 1974 she was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.<56><57> Under the guidance of Chief Counsel John Doar and senior member Bernard Nussbaum,<36> Rodham helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment.<57> The committee's work culminated in the resignation of President Richard Nixon in August 1974.<57>

Rodham joined the venerable Rose Law Firm, a bastion of Arkansan political and economic influence,<69> in February 1977,<70> specializing in patent infringement and intellectual property law,<34> while also working pro bono in child advocacy;<71> she rarely performed litigation work in court.<72>

Rodham maintained her interest in children's law and family policy, publishing the scholarly articles "Children's Policies: Abandonment and Neglect" in 1977<73> and "Children's Rights: A Legal Perspective" in 1979.<74> The latter continued her argument that legal competence of children depended upon their age and other circumstances, and that in cases of serious medical rights judicial intervention is sometimes warranted.<52> An American Bar Association chair later said, "Her articles were important, not because they were radically new but because they helped formulate something that had been inchoate."<52> Historian Garry Wills would later term her "one of the more important scholar-activists of the last two decades",<75> while conservatives said her theories would usurp traditional parental authority,<76> allow children to file frivolous lawsuits against their parents,<52> and considered her work part of legal "crit" theory run amok.<77>

Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977.<34><78> In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom Rodham had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana)<79> appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation,<80> and she served in that capacity from 1978 until the end of 1981.<81> From mid-1978<82> to mid-1980<83> she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so.<84> During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million;<71> subsequently she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.<71>

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Rodham became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years (1979–1981, 1983–1992). Clinton appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year,<85> where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.<86>

Clinton continued to practice law with the Rose Law Firm while she was First Lady of Arkansas. She earned less than all the other partners, due to fewer hours being billed,<98> but still made more than $200,000 in her final year there.<87> She continued to rarely do trial work,<87> but was considered a "rainmaker" at the firm for bringing in clients, partly due to the prestige she lent the firm and to her corporate board connections.<87> She was also very influential in the appointment of state judges.<87> Bill Clinton's Republican opponent in his 1986 gubernatorial re-election campaign accused the Clintons of conflict of interest, because Rose Law did state business; the Clintons deflected the charge by saying that state fees were walled off by the firm before her profits were calculated.<99> From 1987 to 1991 she chaired the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession,<100> which addressed gender bias in the law profession and induced the association to adopt measures to combat it.<100> She was twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, in 1988 and in 1991.<101> When Bill Clinton thought about not running again for governor in 1990, Hillary Clinton considered running herself, but private polls were unfavorable and in the end he ran and was re-elected for the final time.<102><103>

Clinton served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services (1988–1992)<104> and the Children's Defense Fund (as chair, 1986–1992).<105><11> In addition to her positions with non-profit organizations, she also held positions on the corporate board of directors of TCBY (1985–1992),<106> Wal-Mart Stores (1986–1992)<107> and Lafarge (1990–1992).<108> TCBY and Wal-Mart were Arkansas-based companies that were also clients of Rose Law.<87><109> Clinton was the first female member on Wal-Mart's board, added when chairman Sam Walton was pressured to name one;<109> once there, she pushed successfully for the chain to adopt more environmentally-friendly practices,<109><110> pushed largely unsuccessfully for more women to be added to the company's management,<109><110> and was silent about the company's famously anti-labor union practices.<110><109><107>

She was the first First Lady to hold a post-graduate degree<119> and to have her own professional career up to the time of entering the White House.<120> She was also the first to take up an office in the West Wing of the White House:<49> the First Lady usually stays in the East Wing. She is regarded as the most openly empowered presidential wife in American history, save for Eleanor Roosevelt.<121>

Some critics called it inappropriate for the First Lady to play a central role in matters of public policy. Supporters pointed out that Clinton's role in policy was no different from that of other White House advisors and that voters were well aware that she would play an active role in her husband's Presidency.<122> Bill Clinton's campaign promise of "two for the price of one" led opponents to refer derisively to the Clintons as "co-presidents",<123> or sometimes "Billary".<124> The pressures of conflicting ideas about the role of a First Lady were enough to send Clinton into "imaginary discussions" with the also-politically-active Eleanor Roosevelt;<125>

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<141> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<142> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<49> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<49> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<49> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<49> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<143> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<144> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<145> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<146> and Philanthropy (1999).<147>

Hillary Clinton traveled to 79 countries during this time,<148> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<149> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in the People's Republic of China itself,<150> declaring "that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights"<150> and resisting Chinese pressure to soften her remarks.<148> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<151><152> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.<153>

*** All that BEFORE she was elected to the senate. Now tell me again that she is far more experienced than he is, if you can do it with a straight face.

[Recursion]

101. Their experience is comparable; he's only slightly more experienced than her

Your long list seems to say exactly what I said:

Corporate lawyer
Failed health care policy person
Successful lobbyist
Senator

[MagsDem]

104. Well then you can't read or you're just a sexist

No one can read that list of accomplishments and come to the conclusion you did. He was still in graduate school when she had a decade of accomplishments under her belt.

[texshelters]

117. so, she has experience...

However, as I posted a week ago, we should elect Dick Cheney if we want experience.

She is too tied into the DLC and won't work for real change. Obama might not either, but at least he talks about things in a new way instead of the same old hackneed New Yorker Democrat way.

Tex Shelters

[texshelters]

116. How is saying "high and mighty" have anything to do with being sexist?

Check the Palast post about Canada. You really should check more than one news source, even if someone you apparently hate is being accused.

Tea parties? Did Obama say that? That's too bad. I am sure he doesn't say those things about people who don't make false and misleading statements about him, but he should have rephrased it. I would also call Kerry "high and mighty" as well. Perhaps I just don't like elitist Easterners who think they are entitled to live in the White House.

You have no idea who I am and apparently if I disagree with you, I'm sexist. Well, most of the world is sexist according to your criteria. That's a great world you you've set yourself up in. I don't like false allegations, and that is what Clinton is doing and many Clinton supporters including Ferraro.

What world do I live in? The world were people can disagree and not be falsely accused of sexism or racism or whatever.

Tex Shelters

[DarienComp]

27. Sorry.

that old saw just doesn't fly anymore. Your candidate's campaign is a disaster, and it's the fault of nobody your candidate.

[progressivista]

35. I agree. Shuster and Matthews even had to apologize

It's just terrible.

[texshelters]

43. My God, please Mr. Obama, stop being so likable!!

This is insulting to people who support Obama.

Some good points in your comment, but there is no reason to swear here. Swearing is just "fucking" ridiculous when you are trying to make a "damn fucking" point. Also, this is exaggerated. There is no "systematic campaign" of sexism. Certainly, he made the "claw" remark. I hope he learned from it. Does that mean he hates women and he's a sexist. He used a standard cliche which was stupid. He should have said, "Clinton attacks me because she is losing a campaign she assumed would be hers without a fight" or something like that.

Why is Obama a creation of the media? This is just not true. Did they give birth to him, educate him, give him his law degree, give him his Senate seat? He's smart, he says things I agree with, he helped the poor and working classes in Chicago, he has spoken out on the war, he wants to create a program to take war dollars and put it into infrastructure.

What Ferraro said, and you support, is ridiculous. Why is Obama more a creation of the media any more than Clinton or McCain? Because he's photogenic and speaks well? Because he has captured millions of votes to upset the corronation of Clinton. He's a surprise candidate? He's not a "media creation." He's a media phenominan. Also, the media has certainly gone after Obama, or are you just noticing the Clinton abuse. I agree, some outlets should just be shut down.

Tex Shelters


Tex Shelters

[MagsDem]

64. Obama supporters have been insulting women for months

And it's time they, the media, and his campaign got called on the bullshit.

Obama is a media creation because they have elevated him even though he is the LEAST qualified candidate in the race, by FAR. You turn on the tv everyday and all you hear is how wonderful he is and how horrible she is. The coverage is so unbelieveably fawning that SNL was compelled to do a skit on it for goodness sake.

Don't tell me the media doesn't convince people how to vote. They certainly did it with Bush versus Kerry and Gore, and on the Iraq war. And it's pathetic for a guy with very little in the way of any achievements. Can you explain why the media has chosen him and virtually ignored every other candidate in the race even though he has no actual record of accomplishments, and they do?

It sure isn't his policy positions because he doesn't talk about those and neither does the media. Ask his supporters why they support and they have no idea. That's what happens when you're voting for someone because the media told you he was cool.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

44. Ferraro said herself that she was on the '84 ticket only because she was a woman

Watch the video of her on Fox. Is she sexist too, now? :eyes:

[texshelters]

49. That's why she believe what she does about

Obama only being where he is because he's black. Perhap she felt insecure about her position?

Tex Shelters

[bigbrother05]

47. This crap comes out every time Hillary loses

[MagsDem]

58. There are 10 sexists posts on DU at ANY given time every day....

24/7. It bears no relation to anything going on in the campaign. It is relentless here, in the media, in Obama's campaign.

[walldude]

70. Yeah and 10 racist posts as well

Keep playing that holier than thou card. It's working well so far :eyes:

Still planning on voting for the nominee whether it's Obama or Clinton but damn, her supporters are making it more difficult every day.

[bigbrother05]

72. The reason, I read your post and responded

was, I was hoping you had some concrete evidence, It's easy to say that you see sexism in 10 posts a day, but saying it does not make it true. Your definition is differ nt than mine, but you painting sexism with a broad brush, makes you sound foolish. Women who support equal rights, do not call foul every time they disagree.

[MagsDem]

84. Well look in this thread

Just in this single thread there are at least 3 Obama supporters claiming HRC was just a first lady and didn't accomplish anything in that role. That despite assurances from Ted Kennedy, George Mitchell, Gene Sperling, Madeline Albright, Bob Rubin, and many others involved in the Clinton administration that say she was very involved and integral to many democratic successes. This even though Bill Clinton campaigned in 1992 promising that she would be very involved in policy decisions.

But to a sexist that means she just had tea parties as a first lady. No actual accomplishments, despite the facts and testimony from those that were there. So if you don't see the sexist comments you just don't want to see them. They are prevasive here day in and day out.

[bigbrother05]

89. You defending HRC is fine

you are allowing people into goading you into defending sexism. You list very prominent people, but then you say that people on DU relate it to a tea party, if that defines sexism for you, you need help.

[TheZug]

62. Hey, did you get tired of defending the HRC campaign for ripping off that woman?

[Avalux]

63. YAWN. You really must find a way to channel all that anger.

It isn't healthy. :D

[JVS]

75. I suggest train wrestling.

Nothing helps work out anger like standing in the tracks and wrestling a train to the ground.

And don't be afraid either, it's not nearly as dangerous as one would think!

[AgadorSparticus]

68. You're EITHER with Hillary OR you are sexist. You turn people off w/ this kind of bullshit.

ugh...

[RBInMaine]

71. Have you Hillary people entirely lost your sanity?

[cali]

73. Another pathetic, whiny post full

of bullshit from the queen of crap. He's going to be the nominee. Now run along and support your 2nd favorite, John McCain.

[NeedleCast]

74. Broken Record

get help.

[Bluerthanblue]

80. some cheese

to go with your incessent whine?

I'm a woman who wishes you would give it a rest-

Hillary has had more advantages in this primary than she should have.

Get over it.



peace~

[anonymous171]

83. Hillary's "strong showing" in WY, PA being a "must-win" for Obama.

Yeah, the media is SOOOOO pro-obama and sexist. :sarcasm:

[LadyVT]

107. Well said. So obvious, especially after tonight.

[Froward69]

109. I hear it all the time

"I would like to see a Woman as President, Just not THAT woman."

[jmg257]

110. Rush? Is that you? "What she is saying is that the media has created him as a media darling...

because he is black."

Wow - deja vu all over again...thought you were talking about Rush here for a second. Didn't he get fired for the SAME statement about McNabb? Ferraro should apologize, and then STFU.


Limbaugh said McNabb was overrated by the media because he's black.

"RUSH LIMBAUGH, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. For instance, black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well..."

In a statement released last night, Limbaugh said, "My comments this past Sunday were directed at the media and were not racially motivated""


So because FERRARO states SHE got selected for VP in '84 because she was a woman, it MUST be that Obama is where he is just because he is black?? What bullshit!

[Slagathor]

112. Crying sexism isn't going to win you any friends

frankly, Hillary's problems have nothing to do with gender but with her sociopathic personality. She should try being human. And not so much a monster.

[mckeown1128]

113. It isn't sexism... It's is that people don't count...

her husband's resume as her's... and Clinton supporters can't stand that.


Here is that dangerous trip to bosnia that she claims is reason to make her president.



while Hillary Clinton represented the U.S. on the world stage at important moments while she was first lady, there is scant evidence that she played a pivotal role in major foreign policy decisions or in managing global crises.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-experiencemar07,1,394674.story

[Deep13]

114. k, r.

:yourock:

[Pooka Fey]

115. K&R