Been reading alot, one question: What the heck is WRONG with being a woman?

[Mother Of Four]

This is driving me insane, so bear with me while I vent a little.

I'm reading all of these posts about Sexism this, woman that...ROAR...(chest thumping brow beating here)

Dear god people have you lost your MINDS?

(DISCLAIMER: These are my own personal views, and I don't wish to push them onto anyone else- I simply want people to step back and take a breath)

You know, guys don't have it all flowers and roses. They get the most dangerous jobs, and are expected to "suck it up" if they get injured. If a man goes to college, and he chooses what he enjoys instead of looking to the future to support a family he gets ribbed. Still to this day, if a man decides RIGHTFULLY he would like to be the one to stay home with the kids and let Mom work he's called a deadbeat or a loser...or worse a boy toy if they are only prepping to have kids.

A man is supposed to be "Strong" and "Stable" ...again to this day if a guy cries- and we are talking IRL here not politics- he's still considered a wimp for having feelings.

Men work on average 5 more hours a week than women and die years earlier.

Breast and cervical cancer get more attention and research than prostate cancer, yet they are both as prevalent and deadly.

A woman withholds sex from her SO and it's "normal" a man does and somethings wrong with him.

Domestic violence and rape against men is not reported nearly as much (I know this, I've been on calls and my husband is an LEO) because of societies perception that a man is "weak" if he gets beaten, and that it's impossible for a man to be raped by a woman. "He must have wanted it"

Pro Choice only applies to women, men get no say in if the woman decides to have a child or not. Example- She tells him she's on BC, she gets pregnant he has NO SAY on whether he becomes a father or not.

These are only a few small examples of the Sexism applied to MEN...yes MEN. It's called MISANDRY.

Do we as women get a raw deal in some things, YES we do. But if you want equal rights, you have to want EQUAL RIGHTS! You can't say "gimme gimme gimme" and make things lopsided in the opposite direction.

I know about Sexism- I'm an EMT Intermediate. Believe you me, that is still a "boys club" But you know what? I don't step on the back of that truck expecting ANY special treatment. I do not now and have never approved of the lowered expectations game in womens employment. I know I better be able to move as fast, lift as much and hold my stomach as well as a man because that's what my patients are worth.

It has nothing to do with the fact that I have my bits and pieces on the inside instead of dangling, and everything to do with pride in the job.

With that said- this is the meat and bones of the other part thats driving me nuts.

What the hell is wrong with being a woman? What is wrong with being soft and sweet? What is WRONG with wanting to have a man that makes you feel safe and warm inside? Can you truly say, honestly and with every fiber of your being that you DON'T want your SO to tell you how sexy you are? That you don't like to be held, and every now and again cry at a sad movie?

What is so VILE about being vulnerable? Is it truly so disgusting to be female, do some women truly hate their gender so much that they can take no joy from what we as women have been given? Something that a man will NEVER experience. Something that takes incredible strength and adjustment.

The ability to bring a new untouched life into this world, and to feed it from our very own bodies. Where we can be soft and strong at the same time, steel and velvet. Not only the ability to do that wonderful thing, but the wonderful fact that we have a CHOICE of when or if we want to do it at all.

YES there are terrible injustices to the female gender.
YES there are still people out there that look down on women.

But you know what? By hating what you are, by hating what makes us unique, by putting your foot on a man simply because he is male-
You are no better than the people who are doing the injustices and looking down on women.

If you want Equality, fight for true equality. Fight for respect between genders, and a celebration of what makes us different. This can't be a one way street.

I seriously hope this gets people to think, but at this point I'm pretty sure I'm just going to get flamed. So be it, but it needed to be said.

[jakem]

1. thank you for a little reality check on gender...

now if we could just have similar posts on

-war
-sexuality
-race
-political affiliation
-vegetarianism


we would be all set!

[flor de jasmim]

2. Men work on average 5 more hours a week than women and die years earlier.

I presume you are not counting housework, childrearing, shopping, chauffering,...

But I see your point on the rest. And we do need respect: all genders, all races and ethnicities--right on down the line.

[Mother Of Four]

5. Correct -

Only talking about Employment, not home things. However, take a look at this.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8468327

It's a good read, and men really aren't getting the Kudos for the changes made on their end. It's slow going, but it's there.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

3. As an RN, who worked the emergency room for years, the ratio of

domestic violence I saw perpetrated upon women and children far exceeded that perpetrated upon men.

I began training to become a forensic nurse for sexual assault cases, but decided against it for a variety of reasons. The first sexual assault case I saw in my training was an elderly woman who had been raped by a male nurse's aide at a nursing home.

I was also active duty military, another one of those "boy's clubs" and I fought for myself on numerous occasions, including when I was dragged, with a hand over my mouth, into an empty room where I was sexually assaulted by an NCO in my direct chain of command.

I fought him off, as best I could and I brought charges against him in spite of his not so subtle threats. He got a slap on the wrist, I was moved to another department and then he assaulted an officer's wife, and THEN he was gone.

There is inequity, but I agree, complaining is not the way to change things. However, if we don't let our fellow women know that they are not at fault if they are sexually assaulted or beaten by an SO, then we are not helping them, we are promoting inequity, and insinuating they are somehow not "strong" enough.

I'm happy that all your experiences with men have been positive, I hope they always are. For those of us who have seen the underside of sexism, life events haven't always supported the theory that if you're just tough and strong and smart, life will always be fair.

Just mi dos centavos, this Wednesday morning.

[Mother Of Four]

7. I'm also a survivor of rape-

please don't assume this:

"I'm happy that all your experiences with men have been positive, I hope they always are. For those of us who have seen the underside of sexism, life events haven't always supported the theory that if you're just tough and strong and smart, life will always be fair."

I spent some years in therapy, and working with a group called "S.T.A.R." Standing together against rape.

I don't see where in my OP that I ever stated that a woman is at fault for any form of abuse, I really don't see where you got that.

Also, to see the victims of rape and domestic violence in the ER they actually have to want to go to the ER. A man is much less likely to go, and they will sign a refusal of treatment form even when injured. You as an ER nurse should know that if they don't have altered mental status, forcing them to go is assault and can be considered kidnapping.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

10. What we saw in the ER were the most egregious attacks. I'm not sure where you're headed with

kidnapping part of your post.

Now that I work in ambulatory care, they come in a few days after the event, with their periorbital fractures or abdominal bruising and tenderness.

BTW, as I was dealing with the assault and the nothing "punishment" meted out to my attacker, my now husband was wonderful and supportive. None of us can go it alone.

:hug:

[Mother Of Four]

16. Not going anywhere with the kidnapping thing...

It's just something driven into us when we are going through the courses. They drill it into you that if the person you go on the call for is Alert and Oriented and you attempt to treat them against their will it's "assault and can be considered kidnapping".

Sorry if it sounded odd.

It's an actual test question in the final I took as well (grimace)

My husband had a hard time, he was an MP in the Army when we met and is now a civvie LEO. It took me some years after we were married to talk about it with him. He encouraged me to take Hap Ki Do, and I managed to get a few belts. I was against it, but he was persistent. No, you are absolutely right none of us can go it alone. I will be grateful forever for the support I got from my husband.

I guess I just get so frustrated, it seems like in these forums especially many treat men like the enemy. It took a long time for me to understand that there are good ones, and bad ones...and each stands separate. Maybe that was the total point to the OP, I've worked so hard on learning to find a balance so to speak- it's so aggravating to see things so out of balance.

:hug: back to you.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

40. Of course. I was posting in a hurry before leaving

and didn't take the necessary time to read your post and respond.

When I said it about not going it alone, I was also referencing your support group. In retrospect, it would have been very therapeutic for me to have that available at the time. Unfortunately, the Army really didn't want to acknowledge this kind of shit happened, so that wasn't an option.

My husband and I were, pretty seriously, dating at the time. He was just so wonderfully matter of fact about it, never a doubt in his mind that this guy had stepped WAAAY over the line. His support was a key factor for me, because several other people I knew were getting a little a wavering about whether I should pursue the grievance aggressively.

In the end, it worked out OK for me, and he was eventually discharged, but, sadly, it's a matter of passing a dangerous person from one place to another.

I know and love many men in my life. I find most men to be smart, funny, like to laugh, don't suffer fools easily, and really wanting the world to be much more low key and affable. Even if they aren't. :-)

DU's special ingredient is all the women who post here. Do you think they're posting their thoughts and feelings at FR? I think not.



BTW, if I ever need an EMT, I hope it's you, or someone like you. You know your stuff and have the heart to care about the patient. :toast:

[elixir]

15. I would guess a majority of female victims don't want to go either.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[durrrty libby]

9. Thank you. Jesus these stupid people make me sick.

[elixir]

12. Wow, I guess that sums it up. Way to go MagsDem.

[Zuiderelle]

35. Well put.

:thumbsup:

[Romulox]

38. This is dumb. "Men" don't rule the world--poweful oligarchs do.

The reason Hillary Clinton is one of two viable Democratic candidates has nothing to do with her gender whatever. The reason Chelsea has a cushy hedge-fund job has nothing to do with her gender.

It has to do with NEPOTISM and hereditary privilege.

[marions ghost]

6. I can't exactly figure out

what you're saying...a lot of contradictions in there...what IS it you'd like us "to think" about? In as few words as possible?

You seem to have a picture of what defines a woman that I don't think we'd all agree on...how about just letting every woman be what she is, whether it fits any definitions or not?

That would be real equality.

[Mother Of Four]

8. I don't see any contradictions in what I wrote at all-

There is nothing wrong with being female, there is nothing wrong with being male. Both have challenges, both have rewards. Maybe if people would respect those differences, and get respect in return instead of trying to one up the other gender it would be a hell of alot better.

[MagsDem]

17. Except you can only think of all the challenges the poor men who rule the world face

Did your mother raise you to loathe yourself or what? Or do you think poor men are being discriminated against if they don't get picked to rule the world 100% of the time?

This will be our 44th president. Think maybe, given that women are half our population, ONE of them might be suitable by now? It's been about 225 yrs. Is that too soon, or what?

[JenniferJuniper]

11. Bravo

I don't know where to being with the stereotyping exhibited in this post.

Not every woman is a weepy, need-a-strong guy-to make-me feel safe sort.

Many - if not most - are by nature strong and independent and do not wish to be defined solely by their physical ability to bear children.

How 'bout we make an effort to stop judging people - male and female - on external appearances only? You know, the old "free to be, you and me" concept?

[MagsDem]

19. How about if we find one suitable female president in 225 yrs

It can't be that fucking hard -- we are half the population. Free to be you and me my ass. Turned on any "teevee" coverage of the presidential campaign lately?

[Hepburn]

28. There are a lot of women who are and were suited...

...Hillary just happens to NOT be one of them. Why pick a loser like her just to have a female in the WH?

:eyes:

[MagsDem]

31. And if I said, a black, sure, just not THAT black

...no one would presume that a racist comment to make, right? DU proves differently as does the press.

Tell me the name of the female candidate that legions of DUers and the press would not malign on a daily basis? Hell, there is not even a female govenor or congressional rep that isn't treated in a sexist fashion.

[LostinVA]

13. Good post

To me, it sounds like a whole bunch of stereotypes about what a "real" woman is.

[elixir]

14. There is no question in my mind that men:

- get higher pay
- expect women to raise a family AND work (these days double income is normal)
- get preferential treatment in the job market and workplace
- get their name first on the deed to house
- get their last name as the successor for their children

OK, so I'm getting a little carried away but don't glorify all the great stuff these guys are doing. Especially the war, they started it and now men and women are finishing it.

As far as I can see from my little view, "we're all in this together", men, women, black, white, young and old, and the only way we will survive is to do it together.

Why is this post in GD:P?

[Romulox]

37. So HRC gets a pass for supporting the war? Talk about double standard!

Not holding women accountable for their mistakes is the very height of sexism. :think:

"OK, so I'm getting a little carried away but don't glorify all the great stuff these guys are doing. Especially the war, they started it and now men and women are finishing it."

[paperbag_ princess]

18. who taught you that being a woman means being vulnerable?

or soft and sweet?

You have a skewed view of womanhood. Being a woman means being yourself as God made you. We are born with our own personalities and they should be able to thrive and blossom without being forced into a "soft and sweet" box.

What you don't seem to get is that it is sexist to say that all women share some certain personality quality because they are born female. It is sexist to then say that if someone is not acting in the way you think they should that they are not feminine.

This is the problem with sexism....it is not as clearly defined as racism....If you wrote your post saying that what is wrong with a black man acting like a black man....people would be all over you for your racism...

[Mother Of Four]

20. What I asked-

What's wrong with being vulnerable?

Whats wrong with being soft and sweet?

I've haven't gotten a single answer to that. What I've gotten is alot of post's from people who think that what I wrote is what I am telling people to be. HINT: Re-read it and note that it's not edited, and then re-read the disclaimer I put in it again.

There's nothing wrong with being strong, or independent- So why do women who CHOOSE to be "soft and sweet" or to be a mother etc get knocked down?

Why do people refuse to see that men are not as horrible as people are making them out to be.

I see NOTHING wrong with wanting to be feminine, and I see NOTHING wrong with wanting to be otherwise.

Again, if people want equality- why not acknowledge that men have challenges too?

[JenniferJuniper]

22. Answer

What is wrong with being vulnerable?

Definition of vulnerable:

"Capable of or susceptible to being wounded or hurt, as by a weapon: a vulnerable part of the body."

Get it now?????

[Mother Of Four]

24. Point taken-

Vulnerable isn't the right word to use then. Is one of these phrases better?

Open to emotional sharing
Leaning on one another

Will see if I can't edit, even though I really wanted to leave it stand as it was.

(EDIT- BAH, the editing period has passed and now that you made your point I know why people were a little up in arms about it.)

[paperbag_ princess]

26. an answer for you

There is nothing wrong with being vulnerable if you are willing to risk hurt. Men and women do this everyday with their loved ones.

There is nothing wrong with being soft and sweet if that is who you are and who you choose to be. Just don't imply that all women are born this way or should be this way.

The problem is that you seem to have one definition of being feminine.. that soft and sweet is feminine and other things are not. Which is just false. Every culture has their definition of feminine...our culture has said that feminine= soft, sweet, nice

Feminism represents the idea that women are to be judged on their merits ...not to be forced into societies limited definition of feminine.

This is the problem that Hillary faces. She does not fit society's view of feminine= soft sweet and nice...therefore she is deemed unlikeable.
This is what women are trying to fight against.

Everyone has problems(men included)...that is just life...it is hard and unfair sometimes. Your post though is diminishing the fight that women have by trying to point out that everyone else has problems too....and making those problems equal when they are not.

[Mother Of Four]

29. This is one reason I hate text so much...

I didn't mean to imply that people should be a certain way, that's why I wrote the disclaimer into it.

What I want in a perfect world is for every woman and man to be able to stand up and viewed as their own person. Not a gender, not a skin color, nor a religion. It just seems more and more these days, that if you choose to take the "soft and sweet" path you are just a poor simpleton who is dominated by your spouse or SO and just doesn't know any better.

I celebrate differences, and respect opposing views. If we were all the same, what a boring world this would be don't you think?

I'm just so tired of hearing/reading/seeing that men are evil, and they are all sexist and they have no right to speak out because they have a penis.

If you felt I was diminishing women, I'm sorry you feel that way.

[paperbag_ princess]

32. I agree

text is difficult sometimes....
we should all be viewed as our own person.

I guess women who act "soft and sweet" are criticized sometimes because people think that they are just falling in line with society's expectations and are therfore helping to maintain those expectations.

I do believe that some women are just naturally soft spoken and kind and "non threating"...there are a lot of men born with this personality too though.

I have also known many women who take the easy road. They just fall in line with expectations because it is easier to let their husbands take care of them and it is easier to not have to try and make a real difference in the world.

[MagsDem]

33. How can you claim that people think they have no right to "speak

out because they have a penis" and still explain why they dominate the political commentary and discourse in this country? From where I sit it seems they are the ONLY ones allowed to speak out only because they DO have a penis.

[Mother Of Four]

36. I've read all your posts in the thread Mags...

I'm not ignoring you, just trying to figure out a way to answer you without making things worse. What you write comes across very angry and I don't want to toss gasoline on the fire so to speak.

I respect the fact that you and I have deeply contrasting views, and I don't want any of my responses to seem as though I'm making light of your beliefs or feelings.

I just don't know how we can meet anywhere in the middle on this, maybe agree to disagree?

I'd rather have a good discourse though, without bashing or insulting...if you're willing.

[MagsDem]

27. Soft and Sweet?

Nobody but other men diss men for being "soft and sweet" -- that isn't the problem we face.

The facts are that sexism against women is alive and well and even rampant. And most of your "points" talking about how bad men have it are just bunk beat into your head by men.

Women live longer because they take better care of themselves. Most of the health care research in this country is spent on issues that more directly effect white males (ignoring male birth control I might add -- do you really think we can't develop a male birth control pill if we want to?). Women have more say about carrying a baby to term because it is THEIR body. And the list goes on.

There is NO equality for women in the USA. We have been half the population since this country was founded, but apparently still out of the question to be president. Read DU and you will literally see DOZENS of sexist comments about HRC daily. How many of them are deleted by mods? None.

Cry me a river about poor men. The facts just don't support it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

41. MD,

The sad fact is this election allows those who have very narrow views of things to latch onto their favorite "us vs. them" argument.

Suhuhks.

[raccoon]

21. Nothing is inherently wrong with the things you mentioned. Let me add the disclaimer

that not all women want the things you mentioned, or are the things you mentioned.
But unfortunately, in this world, qualities that are usually considered feminine are thought of as less desirable qualities. Same as hobbies/interests women have are usually thought of as not being as important as those usually associated with men.

"What the hell is wrong with being a woman? What is wrong with being soft and sweet? What is WRONG with wanting to have a man that makes you feel safe and warm inside? Can you truly say, honestly and with every fiber of your being that you DON'T want your SO to tell you how sexy you are? That you don't like to be held, and every now and again cry at a sad movie? "

"What is so VILE about being vulnerable?"

If you're vulnerable in this cruel world, you'd better also have someone to run interference for you or retractable claws.

[Mother Of Four]

23. Thank you for answering my questions Raccoon-

I appreciate that.

Honestly I think all people are vulnerable at one point or another, if they weren't then no one would get hurt feelings or be able to be angered. No one would be moved to help a total stranger on the street, even at risk to their own lives.

I am strong, I am capable and I am smart- however there are times that TO ME it's nice to be able to let all the walls down and not worry about being taken care of, or taking care of someone else.

(Edited- I used the word "Vulnerable" in this post, earlier upthread someone was kind enough to poke me with a stick and point out the word was an unfortunate one to use. Open to emotions, and sharing would probably be a better way to put it.)

[marions ghost]

39. right

the problem is that many of these attributes that have been labeled 'feminine' have often been viewed as negative while 'masculine' traits are positive. And sometimes women really can't win--they're criticized for being too strong OR too weak.

If we could disassociate these qualities of humans from gender, we'd all be better off. We could be what we are as individuals, instead of having tightly defined characteristics for our gender. It's not a matter of defending "our" characteristics so much as it is having the freedom to be whatever we truly are. Nobody's saying there aren't differences between the sexes, but they're not nearly as distinct as people think they are.

Women who have taken part in all-womens' cultural events or retreats know what I'm talking about. It can be an eye-opener to see how women can be totally different when they're not having to keep up appearances for the rest of the world's expectations of their gender.

But I'm realistic that this whole process is going to take awhile. Generations. I always give unisex baby gifts tied up in multi-colored paper.

[Bluerthanblue]

25. beautifully said-

"But you know what? By hating what you are, by hating what makes us unique, by putting your foot on a man simply because he is male-
You are no better than the people who are doing the injustices and looking down on women.

If you want Equality, fight for true equality. Fight for respect between genders, and a celebration of what makes us different. This can't be a one way street."


you said this so well.

As a single mother raising sons, I've seen this through similar eyes.
:hi:

peace~

[Mother Of Four]

30. Thank you

:hi:

[Zuiderelle]

34. Oh my god. You've GOT to be kidding. "putting your foot on a man" ???

Who's doing that? What the hell are you talking about?

What a backward-assed way of looking at things this OP is. All women are soft and hate themselves and should want men to tell them they are sexy, because being all soft and sexy is who we are. Okee dokee. :eyes: