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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:15 PM
Original message
Michelle Obama could not recall the contents of the Princeton thesis she composed in 1985
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 12:20 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JC04Aa01.html

Mar 4, 2008


Sing, o muse, the wrath of Michelle
By Spengler

The wrath of swift-footed Achilles, of which Homer called his muse to sing, nearly lost the Trojan War for the Greeks. The wrath of swift-tongued Michelle Obama well might lose the White House for her husband. We had a peek into her diary last week when the Obama campaign finally made public her undergraduate thesis, titled "Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community". The contents of this remarkable document sharpen the profile of Obama's women that I offered last week (Obama's women reveal his secret Asia Times Online, February 26.)

Barack Obama, I argued, evinces a preternatural sangfroid, for he is in America but not of it, a Third World anthropologist profiling



Americans. But his wife's anger at America will out, for it is a profound rage amplified by guilt.

Mrs Obama averred that she could not recall the contents of the thesis she composed in 1985, but that cannot be quite true, for it is a poignant cry from the heart. It explains her controversial outburst during the campaign to the effect that she felt proud of her country for the first time in her adult life in 2008, after "feeling so alone" in her "frustration" and "disappointment" at America.

Princeton both humiliated her and corrupted her, Michelle Vaughn Robinson complains in an undergraduate prose that is all the more touching for its clumsiness. By condescending to the young black woman from a Chicago working-class family, the liberal university made Michelle feel like an outsider. Worse, by giving her a ticket to financial success, Princeton caused her to feel that she was selling out to the institutions she most despised.

Michelle's ambivalence towards Princeton, and by extension towards America, has the makings of a tragedy of the sort found in the novels of Theodore Dreiser or F Scott Fitzgerald, a fatal compromise in pursuit of status. Young Michelle felt she was betraying "lower class Blacks" by assimilating:

"... the path I have chosen to follow by attending Princeton will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation into a White cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society, never becoming a full participant. This realization has presently made my goals to actively utilize my resources to benefit the Black community more desirable."

Nonetheless, she was drawn moth-like to the flame of success:

"At the same time, however, it is conceivable that my four years of exposure to a predominantly White, Ivy League University has instilled within me certain conservative values. For example, as I enter my final year at Princeton, I find myself striving for many of the same goals as my White classmates - acceptance to a prestigious graduate or professional school or a high paying position in a successful corporation. Thus, my goals after Princeton are not as clear as before."

Hopelessness, young Michelle sought to demonstrate, afflicts black Princeton students who are torn between loyalties to the black community and the pursuit of success. Her thesis tabulated the results of a questionnaire sent to black students at Princeton on their attitudes towards the black community and themselves. She drew a bright line between "separatist-pluralist" attitudes, that is, rejecting assimilation into white America, and an "integrationist-assimilationist" stance. Clearly her sympathies lay with black separatism.

"The idea of separationism and pluralism (both cultural structural and social structural) is also discussed by Billingsley (1968) who believes there is a need for Blacks to build up their own communities, define themselves by new "Black" standards different from the old White standards and exercise power and control over their own institutions and services within the Black community.

Stokely Carmichael and Charles Hamilton's (1967) developed definitions of separationism in their discussion of Black Power which guided me in the formulation and use of this concept in the study: "The concept of Black Power rests on the fundamental premise: Before a group can enter the open society, it must close ranks."

It was black separatists, she concluded, who cared about the black community, whereas integrated blacks turned their backs on it:

"... the more respondents became sep/plur, during the Pre-to-Prin period , the more respondents became motivated to benefit the Black community; and the more int/assim they became, the more unmotivated they became to benefit the Black community."

Universities such as Princeton, moreover, rig the system for the benefit of whites, as she favorably quoted Dr Carolyn Dejoie:

"Institutional policies of predominantly White Universities have established practices which favor the preferred groups and have ranked priorities which are meant to facilitate the tasks and improve the conditions of White students while ignoring the needs of the Black students ... Fraternities, sororities, homecoming activities and student government maintain the White status-quo . As in academic areas, the social aspects of university life systemically follow the interests of White students - the majority group."

Although the black separatists are the ones who care about the black community, she continues, their sense of loyalty and concern also inspires a sense of hopelessness. That is an unexpected and highly personal conclusion. Her prose chokes up and her spelling breaks down as she writes of this hopelessness:

" demontate a strong relationship for the change in ideologies during the Pre-to-Prin period and the feeling that the situation of the Black lower class is hopeless, such that the more responds became sep/plur, the more respondents; and the more respondents became int/assim, the less hopeless they felt.

My speculation for this finding is based on the possibility that a separationist is more likely to have a realistic impression of the plight of the Black lower class because of the likelihood that a separationist is more closely associated with the Black lower class than are integrationist . By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desparation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight. "

Michelle did not imagine the contempt with which the white liberal professors of Princeton regarded black students, for the above passage was preserved in the final version of the thesis stored by the university, errors and all.

Black students who reject white society, she concluded, understand the desperation of the black lower class, and therefore feel hopeless, whereas assimilated blacks ignore this desperation and therefore are more cheerful. It is hard not to admire the young black woman whose indignation over the predicament of the black lower class bursts out of the bland style of academic sociology, and who throws the condescension of her white liberal professors back in their faces. But that is not what afflicted the future Michelle Obama.

To the young Michelle's sense of hopelessness about the prospects for the black lower class, Princeton added something even worse, namely guilt over "striving for many of the same goals as my White classmates - acceptance to a prestigious graduate or professional school or a high paying position in a successful corporation". Despite her black separatist sympathies, Michelle Vaughn Robinson succumbed to the temptations of which she wrote in her thesis and got a law degree from Harvard, earning around $400,000 a year in salary and corporate director fees by 2005.

Her "hopelessness", "frustration" and "disappointment" remain, exacerbated by guilt over her own success. That is not speculation, but a precis of her own account. One might speculate that the guilt became all the more poignant to the extent her success was unearned. Michelle Obama's employer, The University of Chicago Hospitals, paid her $121,910, a reasonable sum for the skill level evident in her thesis, but raised this to $316,952 shortly after(2 weeks) her husband was elected US senator.


more.....
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Ned_Devine Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. What is this, again?
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. It's yet another one of elswheresdaughters blatant ignorance of the 4 paragraph paste rule
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 12:31 PM by demdog78
nothing more.

I have to remember to stop clicking on her threads.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. So?
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. How convenient for Michelle. ROTFLMAO
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:20 PM
Original message
Spin Spin Spin Little Hillary Supporter


:crazy:
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
64. that is too crazy!!!!!!!! LOLOL nt
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
77. OMFG!
That is great!

:rofl:
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
91. OK. I'm totally stealing that.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
113. Who is that behind Hillary?
Is that Ellen ?Is that Obama next to Pelosi?

That is freaking wild!

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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
115. LMAO!!!!!!!! n/t
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
116. My living room ERUPTED with laughter with I saw this...n/t
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Right.... attacking the wife now.... that'll work.....

:eyes:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. hey I was just reading some foreign news papers and this was there...sorry if you can't handle it
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 12:29 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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Ned_Devine Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. "hey I just was foriegn reading news papers and this was there"
...so reading news papers is foreign to you? How does this affect the price of tea in China, again?
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. What is there not to handle?
It was a good thesis.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Can Hillary remember where she put her 2006 Tax Return yet?
if so, please make it public
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
101. lmao
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Maybe they're buried under Rezkobama's billing records, lmao.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. thank you for posting this
All it will take is for talk radio to start reading her paper on the airwaves and there will be an immense wave of hatred against her from a great portion of America. It's coming. Obama supporters better prepare for it.

I read the thesis last week, and knew it would be fodder for the dividers in America.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
66. Hannity was railing about this last week
Interesting to find it on DU
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Same tactic that Hannity has been using against Hillary for years. n/t
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. Right - Bill was never attacked.?
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. It worked in the '90's
For a certain Governor of Arkansas and his Ivy-League educated wife who didn't stay at home baking cookies!
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
63. Gotta keep digging shit up.
unreal
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
79. guess most Obama folks sould not attack Bill C. now. Right!! Right!
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
93. And how many times have I seen posts about "poor widdle Chelsea?"
So disgusting, back atcha.

Bake
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. LOL
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Ain't he something?
An anonymous columnist writing from a "conservative Judeo-Christian" perspective. And he doesn't like Michelle Obama. Shocking.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
70. Oh, yeah.
The OP has really outdone herself, digging up this kind of crap.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. She must be a Muslim then. Send Michelle to GITMO for interrogation n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. ummm how old are you?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. $200K raise 2 weeks after hubby was elected to the US Senate? O! How Hard Life Is For Poor Us!
:rofl:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. And how do we know this? BECAUSE THEY RELEASED THEIR TAX FORMS..... It's called "open government"

Get used to it.


... and quit being a hypocrit. Ask your candidate to release her tax forms too - so we can compare and contrast their income sources.


No?

Then STFU!
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. When will Obama release all his records from the "Rezko Years"?
And he claims 8 years as a State Senator without keeping ANY records at all??
No wonder his bandwagon is overloaded with the starry-eyed.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. On ABC This Week Axerod ducked answering when BO will release Rezko documents.
Sources: ABC News, The New York Times, The Chicago Sun-Times, the Times of London.

Questions Sen. Obama Should Answer About Tony Rezko

The trial of indicted influence peddler Tony Rezko - longtime friend and political patron of Sen. Barack Obama -- starts today . Sen. Obama's name has already surfaced in pre-trial documents submitted by the prosecution and, according to media reports, is likely to surface again as the trial progresses. Democrats deserve the answers to these questions as they consider their votes:

1. Will Sen. Obama release all documents related to his relationship with Tony Rezko, including all documents related to his controversial land transaction?

Howard Wolfson asked top Obama strategist David Axelrod this question on ABC's This Week and the campaign has yet to respond.

2. When, specifically, did Sen. Obama become aware of Mr. Rezko's legal problems?

On national television this January, Sen. Obama said "no one had an inkling" of Rezko's legal troubles during the course of their relationship. Actually, it was already widely reported that Mr. Rezko was under investigation for participating in a kickback scheme prior to their controversial land transaction.

3. Sen. Obama has returned money from several individuals who are publicly associated with Mr. Rezko. How much money did Mr. Rezko bundle for Sen. Obama's campaigns in total, including people who are not business associates of Mr. Rezko? How many fundraisers did Mr. Rezko hold for Sen. Obama? Has there been an internal investigation to determine how many straw donors Mr. Rezko used to funnel money to Sen. Obama?

The Obama campaign has returned money from people who are publicly associate with Mr. Rezko. But they have not revealed who much Mr. Rezko bundled for Sen. Obama in total. The Chicago Sun Times reported that the Obama campaign "declined to say" whether they maintained a list of the money that Mr. Rezko raised for Mr. Obama over the course of his career.

4. Much of the upcoming trial involves Mr. Rezko's efforts to control state boards as a means to defraud the state government. Have Sen. Obama and Mr. Rezko ever communicated about potential appointments to Illinois boards and commissions? It's been publicly reported that Sen. Obama lobbied these same state boards to secure contracts for campaign donors. Did Sen. Obama ever confer with Mr. Rezko concerning how to successfully lobby state boards?

The indictment alleges that Mr. Rezko manipulated state government boards to defraud the people of Illinois. At the same time, "Mr. Obama met with three state pension boards," urging them to give contracts to specific firms. Later, employees of these companies "donated more than $300,000 to help Mr. Obama win his seat in the United States Senate in 2004 and set fund-raising records early in the 2008 presidential race."

5. The New York Times reported that Sen. Obama attended a business meeting on behalf of Mr. Rezko to impress potential investors for his business schemes. How many events did Sen. Obama attend on behalf of Mr. Rezko to impress investors? What was his role? Why did Sen. Obama agree to attend?

The New York Times reported in June that "Former Rezko associates said that Governor Blagojevich attended one of the dinners, and that at Mr. Rezko’s request, Mr. Obama dropped in at one for Middle Eastern bankers in early 2004, just as he was starting to pull ahead in the Senate primary. The visits, Mr. Rezko’s partners said, helped impress foreign guests."

6. How many times did Senator Obama visit Tony Rezko's house? What was the purpose of these visits?

The Times of London reports that "The court is also expected to hear from John Thomas, an FBI mole, who reportedly witnessed Mr Obama and Mr Blagojevich making frequent visits to Mr Rezko."

7. Did Sen. Obama intercede on behalf of Mr. Rezko in any governmental capacity?

The Chicago Sun Times reported that "As a state senator, Barack Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting his political patron Tony Rezko's successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens." They have not said whether there were any other actions that Obama took for the benefit of Rezko.
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
81. Ironic your camp is yelling "Bad real estate deal"...
Or do you not remember all that crap about "whitewater" that was total BS?

Hypocrites... slinging mud poo they didn't like having thrown at them.

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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
51. That was from a 2005 tax return.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. That's the part that IS damaging - to "our" elected representatives,
not exclusively to the Obamas.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. I spent nine months researching and writing my senior thesis 1978-79.
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM by no_hypocrisy
It was an obsession in my life and a requirement for graduation. Six pages of annotated footnotes. Five pages of bibliography.

I could give a dissertation on the material today if I had to.

But still, it's an unfair question to ask THE SPOUSE of a candidate. Ask Obama about HIS magnum opus while an undergraduate.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. that's my point...everyone can, except for Michelle...she "couldn't recall the content" of hers.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
89. Do you have any kind of proof, a link, anything, that quotes Michelle....
... as saying she "couldn't recall the content of her thesis?"

You know, something that isn't just claimed as the basis of some wingnut rant, like the one you posted?

Your OP rests upon this assumption that Michelle made a quote, and I'd just like to see that backed up. It's quite possible she did say that, but I'd really like to know for sure.

Anyone?
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Ned_Devine Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Good for you!....crickets chirping...tumbleweeds rolling through
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
97. just for the sake of balance
I did a senior thesis in 2001. I can recall vaguely what it was about, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are things in there I don't remember writing. It was more to satisfy a graduation requirement than anything else.

If I really wanted to give someone a fair impression of my professional development, I'd talk about my more recent published journal articles.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. I did so much massive research I had to CUT BACK the thesis to
75 pages. The information is burned into me, but that's my personal experience. I ate, drank, and slept that thesis, typing it until the day of my dissertation.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sounds kinda radical.
Cool. :D
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. so where ARE those tax returns anyway?
want to tell us about the millions of dollars Bill got from the Saudis and the United American Emirates?
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. You're hoisting her on a college paper she wrote 23 years ago ?
That's pretty darn irrelevant and desperate.
It's college.... who remembers that?
And you really expect someone to be held accountable for their college assignments?
Get a life Tracy Flick.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Hillary Clinton was a Goldwater Girl. I guess we should hold that against her too. nt
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. How many years ago?
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
59. It was a mass movement when she was teen--think of Obamamania
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 01:17 PM by candice
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #59
92. I wrote a post yesterday about the "Mississippi Burning" murders....
... in 1964, the incredible bravery of those three college students who were killed for attempting to register blacks to vote.

And this morning, I got to thinking.... in 1964, when those murders occurred, Hillary Clinton was a "Goldwater Girl." You know, Barry Goldwater, legendary opponent of the Civil Rights Act.

So if oppossing civil rights is your version of a mass teenage movement that she got all wrapped up in, then I think I prefer "Obamamania."
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Hehe, check this out:
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Perfecto
bwahahahaha
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. LOL Tracy Flick
good one!
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. A young woman exploring her place within the Ivory Tower
and her ruminations about race and what this means to identity, community, and nation. These are concerns that have interested Americans since our beginnings.

I'm sure Ms Obama said some things she no longer believes, just as I have written things in my academic career I no longer believe. Taking chances is really what education is about, isn't it? At least, that's what I tell my students, many of whom experience the same struggle over assimilation and community authenticity that Ms Obama experienced.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ferraro is on tv
and I can't remember where I put the remote.

What's your point?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. Interesting
Princeton - that bastion of equity and justice. That would have been a hard place to go to school for most people. And with the little I know of Ms Obama's background - very hard.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. Michelle, alone, would cause an Obama nominee to lose the GE
her comments and behavior will trigger incredible right wing wrath
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Kinda like Hillary did in '92....
oops....


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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. Ooh ooh can I call this SEXIST??
can I can I huh???
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
33. I wrote my thesis in '96....I can't recall any of it
I think it was on a male's perspective on Sylvia Plath - which proves how many drugs I took back then.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. What do you possibly hope to achieve from your OP?
Or, as a followup question, did you even feel the slightest bit of remorse about posting this crap?

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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. 1985? Sometimes I'm hard pressed to remember what I wrote last week.
I can't believe anyone would go after a potential first lady on a 23 year old college thesis - whatever it was.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
80. its highly unlikely people do not recall a thesis! imho
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Blu Dahlia Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. It depends on why you did the thesis: If it was for a grade
and for career/education advancement only then it would be easy to forget all or most of it in less than 5 years. If it's a thesis based on passion then that's a different situation of course.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. One puts in months/years-into a thesis. Selective forgeting at best.
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Blu Dahlia Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. I can't recall my thesis from 3.5 years ago
I was just trying to make an A.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. And this matters why?
23 years ago, I was also in college. I majored in Electronics. Today, I can't remember most of what I learned back then, since it has very little to do with my day-to-day life anymore.

Besides, Michelle is not running for office. Or do you really want to go digging back into Bill Clinton's closet full of skeletons?
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samdogmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
42. You know--the good thing is that Hillary supporters are so transparent!
They're a minority--but when they post/respond to things they open all kinds of doors and windows and it's easy to refute their observations!

Let's see Hillary's tax returns and then we'll talk--okay?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. ?
So Michelle Obama was/is embarassed and disappointed that Americans, and particularly Black Americans, INCLDUNG herself, lose their commmitment to Social and Economic Justice as they make more money.

The honesty of that is a plus to me and I suspect also to others.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. 4 Paragraphs -- A DU rule to protect against liability

5. Copyrights: Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt (not exceeding 4 paragraphs) with a link back to the original.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
49. This is why I'm totally not voting for her!
Oh, wait - she ain't runnin'

More obtuse, desperate, angry BS from the spiraling Clinton support group.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. Perfect! Attack the candidate's wife for a paper written 28 years ago!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
52. I can't remember what I wrote last week. nt
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
53. Do you remember what you wrote 23 years ago?
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 01:10 PM by Pawel K
Yes, I'm sure you do.

And I love this new angle, that Obama is anti-american. Do you idiots honestly not see that you are freepers in democratic clothing? Why don't you go post there, leave us the fuck alone.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
55. at least this spouse wasn't making deals in Azerbaijan
but I think comparing the two actual candidates makes a whole lot more sense than comparing their spouses.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
56. At least the information is out there - Where is HRC's Tax reports and records in the WH?
I really don't think Michelle's writings in college 23 years ago should be too much of a concern. I know I would have a hard time repeating a lot of things I did 23 years ago. My beliefs have changed over the years a lot and so have HRC's when she was the President of the Republican Party at her University!
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
57. I'm seeing a lot of Hillbot attacks on Michelle so I guess it's open season on Bill too.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. You mean... the DUbamas might "start" attacking Bill now?? Horrors!
The Obama Campaign has been attacking Bill for months.
Pay attention.
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #62
114. Obama isn't
basing his entire campaign on HIS WIFE.

Hillary is putting a lot of her "35 years of experience" on Bill.

Expect the attacks. A lot of people are really pissed at him for the way he behaved, and his utter lack of accomplishment.
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
58. She will rip his eyes out...
From the New Yorker profile:

"Obama majored in sociology, investigating, in her senior thesis, “Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community,” the ways in which attending Princeton affected black alumni’s sense of connection to the black community. At Obama’s request, the thesis was embargoed until November 5, 2008. Last month, amid charges of hypocrisy—the Obama campaign has congratulated itself on transparency—Obama finally released the document to the Web site Politico. A sample passage: “Unfortunately there are very few adequate support groups which provide some form of guidance and counsel for Black students having difficulty making the transition from their home environments to Princeton’s environment. Most students are dependent upon the use of their own faculties to carry them through Princeton.”"
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
60. you forgot to post Barack's kindergarten essy "I want to Be President"
:rofl:
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
61. Obama's Trinity Unity Church -- "cultish,separatists ...scary doctrine" :Eric Rush
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
65. How will Michelle ever get elected president?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
67. In 1985 I spent 2 months developing a contact database app in Fortran
for my internship. They loved it & used it for years afterward.

Now - 23 yrs later - I'm totally useless as a Fortran programmer.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. Ok -- But how's your COBOL?
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 01:54 PM by BushDespiser12
:evilgrin:
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #75
103. That's the BSG version of Valhalla, right?
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. You got it!
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
68. When did Michelle say she couldn't recall the content of her thesis?
According to Politico.com, when they discovered Princeton would not allow access to her thesis through their library, they called the Obama campaign. The campaign sent the thesis right over, in its entirety, and Politico put it on their web page.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html

By the way, that editorial is some of the worst writing I have ever suffered through. And have you ever seen the other works of "Spengler"? Like the one he titles, "Obama bin Lottery"?

Your dear Spengler also praises Vladimr Putin, and says he'd make a better president than Hillary. Congratulations on finding piggish writings from wingnuts and posting them here! You've outdone yourself.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #68
88. Pitiful.
Not only 'Spengler' but the OM.

I read in her words a kind of introspection and impassioned extrospection that one should celebrate from a 20-something, wrestling with the very complex dynamics of societal tides redolant with objectification and codependency, and aspirations for both self-actualization and "making a difference" in the world. The toxic cynicism with which her thesis is presented is part of a rape and pillage political strategy that's become a plague.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
69. More racist blather from a Zellary supporter...n/t
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
71. David Duke....
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
72. WGAF?
translation: who gives a fuck?
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
73. This is desperate, 22 years ago!?!?!? WOW!! K.....already....WOW!!!...nt
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. yeah--Reminds me of the WEEKLY posts on DU about HRC walmart work!!
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #82
100. Not to mention Whitewater and BlueMonica. They think they can set the
expiration date on information.

REC.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
74. Wonder how thay got it. I thought it had been pulled from the library?
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
76. Can you remember the content of your dissertation from 23 years ago?
Have you even written a Thesis or Dissertation?

Has it been approved by your Thesis/Doctoral Committee?

Did you graduate with your Master's or Doctoral degree?
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
78. O....K....
This means absolutely fuck-all. Is this what gets thrown when you're out of kitchen sinks?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
84. I do not necessarily agree with the commentary--but this raise is telling!!



......Her "hopelessness", "frustration" and "disappointment" remain, exacerbated by guilt over her own success. That is not speculation, but a precis of her own account. One might speculate that the guilt became all the more poignant to the extent her success was unearned. Michelle Obama's employer, The University of Chicago Hospitals, paid her $121,910, a reasonable sum for the skill level evident in her thesis, but raised this to $316,952 shortly after(2 weeks) her husband was elected US senator.


more.....
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. It's telling, all right. It's called telling the truth, and being open with your tax records.
The only reason we know about Michelle Obama's income is because the Obamas have made their 2006 tax returns public.

You, of course already knew that, right?
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needleand Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
85. What does she have to hide exactly?
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
87. Your point?
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Still-ill Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
90. ok, and
how does this matters, This is why Democrat's will not control the white house in 08. Hillary and her supporters are dividing the party with things like this. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything. But, hey further divide the party with foolishness about race and dumb stories about sexism and pictures and mentioning of a certain persons middle name.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
94. Wow, I didn't know Michelle was running for office.
Or has Hillary made First Lady an actual job now?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
96. Right wing drivel n/t
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
98. And this differs from the
blue collar whites who supposedly support Clinton and sneer at the educated elites, those "latte liberals" and Volvo drivers? Somehow the idea is put out that these enclaves, often carrying around thinly disquised racism, are filled with heroic salt-of-the-earth types.

Someone with conflicted feelings about the continuing problem of racism in our country, and being one of the people who've "made it" to a nicer life through education and hard work is castigated for those feelings?

You know, when we children of Irish immigrants settle all in one area, we celebrate that and throw a parade. No one blinks when we elect a nice Irish boy to political office.

When the children of Italian or Polish or German immigrants do the same, it's a similar story.

When African American communities celebrate the success of one of their own, and support him in political office, suddenly that's racist?
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
104. I'd hate to go back to hear some of the things that came out of my mouth
during my youth in 1968 when I first went to college. I espoused some pretty insane things back in the 60s. I even had a photo of Stalin on my wall. And then I grew up and realized I was pretty ignorant and had a lot to learn.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
105. so?
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
106. No one gives a fat rat's ass about Michelle's thesis. Attacking Michelle won't help Hillary!!!
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 06:15 PM by kwenu
Or McCain.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
107. Asia Times........Gee, did you miss last week's gem: Obama's Women
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 06:18 PM by snappyturtle
Reveal his Secret? I'd much rather know Barack's secret than Michelle's memory loss. Is this an Asian tabloid?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
109. If Michelle disavows this, then let her. This sounds like GOP propaganda to me.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
110. 3,987
Nearly four thousand U.S. troops are dead in Iraq. Do you honestly - honestly - think anybody gives a flying fuck about a twenty-year-old masters' thesis?

Seriously. Is that the subject we're going to discuss today? That's what you're brining to the table?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Thank you. nt
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. This is the GD-Primary forum ...for discussing the "PRIMARY" ....now what did you want to discuss?
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 10:35 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #112
117. I don't know..Let me think...
HOW ABOUT THE FUCKING ISSUES!!!
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