Obama has done well with the Black constituency

[BootinUp]

because he is half black.

Is this flamebait?

Are the mods going to lock this?

Has DU jumped the shark?

I thought this was a forum for discussing Democratic politics.

[angie_love]

1. And Bill Clinton became president partly b/c he did so well with the black constituency.

SO?

[Danger Mouse]

2. EXACTLY.

[BootinUp]

3. Are you saying I posted flame bait in your opinion?

[angie_love]

10. I just don't understand your fucking point!

Are you also going to post...every single white male president became president because of the white vote? I mean, this is so fucking pointless and ridiculous. How old are you by the way? Usually its the older folks who have a problem with race. Younger folks usually laugh at some of the stuff that drives some of you in a tizzy.

[BootinUp]

15. The point is do you have a problem discussing race and politics without getting frustated

at other peoples opinions?

I am advocating for a little more free speech without charges of racism getting hurled around.

[angie_love]

20. If race was so important then why did blacks vote overwhelmingly for Kerry over Sharpton

in 2004? I mean, do you realize how ridiculous your OP is? I just don't see the fucking point. I mean, who cares.

[EmilyAnne]

32. I think that posting something just to find out if it would be considered flame bait is

definitely flame bait.

[BootinUp]

40. lol, well the mods might agree, still waiting to find out.

[Exilednight]

39. Yes you did, when you added the part....

"because he is half black".

Can you prove that he has done so well with the black community because he is half black, or is this just speculation on your part.

If you can prove it, then post the proof that the black community is only voting for him because he is half black.

[BootinUp]

49. Honestly, with the support he has from the black community

in many states I didn't think any more proof was needed.

[Exilednight]

50. I do. John Kerry receieved 90% of the vote from the black community.

[Tellurian]

7. Bill Clinton championed the Black Constiuency..

He raised money for Dafur..what has Obama done for his black constituency? NADA!

[angie_love]

13. Yeah and he also let the rwandan genocide happen that killed hundreds of thousands.

That 3am phone rang alright, except no one answered. So your argument doesn't hold up Alex.

[Tellurian]

42. Rwandans have been in and out of civil war since 1974..were you born yet?

[Cant trust em]

19. You might want to read Samantha Power's book on genocide

then perhaps you'll have a different perspective on the Clinton era in terms of the black constituency. I'm not sure I want to read it for that very reason.

[NDambi]

22. Bill and Hillary can bite it..

[Tellurian]

4. Obama has done well because he accuses everyone of racism..

He becoming tiring..but then, his campaign ran out of road on Feb 5th.. So when is Obama going to do or say something of substance besides saying..."I WON" and "YOU'RE a BIGOT"... I'm waiting!

[TexasLady]

11. Well, Hillary does well because Republicans vote for her

they 'like' her

[Drunken Irishman]

17. Coming from you, Tellurian, that's rich.

[tabatha]

18. That is a pathetic baseless comment.

[Tellurian]

37. How baseles is it when a Racist attack on someone comes from the Obama camp almost daily

from his campaign staff. The Ferraro and Clinton attacks came from Axelrod.

[tabatha]

44. daily? you must be joking.

[Tellurian]

47. Thats all we've heard from Obama and his camp is accusations of Racism..

when is he going to talk about issues instead of accusations on 2 state governors, the Clintons and now Ferraro.

[tabatha]

53. Back your charges with facts.

[Cant trust em]

21. He continues to win

that's a pretty good start. When you're a head you don't need to change gears.

[NJSecularist]

5. This is an observant fact. What Geraldine Ferraro said was the definition of race baiting.

[Tellurian]

48. Explain how it's race baiting, when Ferraro isn't a racist?

[MadBadger]

6. And Hillary Clinton only has a chance because her last name is Clinton

You wanna have this discussion?

[FredScuttle]

8. I think part of the reason Obama has done well with the "black constituency"

is that he doesn't hire washed-up racist hags who insult the black community. Just a guess.

[ecstatic]

9. What's the explanation for how well he did against Alan Keyes (92 to 5%)?

[skipos]

12. If he has done well with them BECAUSE he is black

Why was he not doing well with them a few months ago? Remember all the discussion about why he was trailing Clinton in SC, and trailing her amongst blacks in general? Was he trailing her because they didn't know he was black?

[gravity]

14. That's not the problem

It is saying that Obama would have never been a strong contender for the nomination if he was white.

[tabatha]

16. No, he has done well with the Black constituency

because many of them like his message.

If you remember Will.i.am was rooting for both Hillary and Obama, until he heard a speech after one of Obama's victories. He was so impressed that he turned it into a song.

Many people have compared Obama to Bobby Kennedy, and like him for his message of change.

To say the the Black constituency like him for one reason (he is half-black) only is awfully short-sighted and quite frankly, condescending.

[BootinUp]

26. Personally, I believe there are many many voters

who look deeply at candidates before choosing. But I also believe there are many people who take shortcuts. For instance, that candidate is doing very well and I like what I have seen (5-10 minutes of a speech or debate) I am voting for him/her.

Also, I believe the historical quality of Obamas campaign has drawn support from both whites and blacks and others. Is it heresy to suggest that? Has it not been openly discussed that women have supported Hillary in large part because she is one of them?

[tabatha]

45. Yes, a large number of women voters have supported Hillary

because she is a woman. And I have not heard the Obama camp make any comments on that.

But listening to Air America in the last few weeks, many previous women Hillary supporters have called and stated that they are very unhappy with her behavior, and are switching to Obama.

So some of Obama's latest votes could come from women who have switched because of Hillary herself.

[KittyWampus]

23. And Hillary Clinton has done well with the Monster constituency

because she is half monster?

[blm]

24. Democrats usually do VERY WELL with African-Americans - Clinton, Gore and Kerry are all white.

.

[ampad]

25. Yup you are right

All us black folks voted for him because he is half black. Now if he were all black we would give him a crown and call him our king. I thought this was a forum for Democratic politics as well, so why don't you post something politically constructive?

[angie_love]

29. lol Welcome ampad!

I'm all for new members making sense. There seems to be a lack of it around here lately.

[Cant trust em]

27. maybe you should change your post to be

"part of the reason he's done well"

Then you'll probably be in the clear. It seems like this discussion is probably not going the way you intended.

[BootinUp]

28. I reject that suggestion

if we must parse our words to that degree, than DU can kiss my ass. lol.

[Cant trust em]

31. So you do believe that he's just a black guy

nothing else to note. Let's talk about it then, but don't cry when you get called racist.

[BootinUp]

38. So if I don't carefully say that its more than that

even though its clearly a major factor, I'm a racist? Really?>

[Cant trust em]

55. when you deliberately post something incomplete

expect people to pick that up and run with it. Particularly when I give you the opportunity to further explain. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and you turned it down. That leaves me to believe that you're more interested in racial implications than any other factors. I'm totally willing to have completely frank and open discussions on this forum. But I want to get the petty stuff out of the way first.

[BootinUp]

61. I have other posts on this thread

that discuss Obamas strengths as a candidate, open your eyes a little wider.

[Cant trust em]

62. Good for you then.

I was commenting on your OP, which deliberately left those out. After I commented on that, I moved onto other posts. I'm glad that you've widened your explanation, which is what I was after in the first place.

[Danger Mouse]

30. Then why didn't Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton win?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

33. Jesse Jackson did win. He won the votes the OP mentions by big numbers.

Obviously Jackson didn't win enough white votes to beat Dukakis, but he did very well with the AA vote.

He amassed more than 1800 delegates.

[BootinUp]

34. Obviously there is more to his support than his race

does that mean his race can't be discussed or that it isn't an obvious factor?

I am truly taken aback at the kneejerk charges of racism in this campaign mainly in the blogosphere and I wish people would take that charge a little more seriously before leveling it.

[NMMatt]

41. But why is it always discussed in terms of Blacks being a block of people

And whites as being inherently more independent or demographically diverse or what have you? Why is the racial polarization in Mississippi a attributed to Obama and not to Clinton? Why aren't we talking about the whites in Alabama who vote for Clinton because she is white rather just those African Americans who voted for Obama? Why aren't we discounting Ohio because she overwhelmingly carried the rural white vote as if it is somehow an accomplishment?

[BootinUp]

43. Racism is real

and it affects politics every election and in between. My problem is the attempt to censor or shutdown discussion of this reality.

[NMMatt]

35. And Hillary does well with the Appalachian constituency because she is white

However, for some reason, their votes are supposed to be all important to us (OH and PA) and black votes are not supposed to count (NC, MS, SC, AL and GA).

[FrenchieCat]

36. Sorry Jim, you're wrong......

Even I, who is half Black like Obama, looked into supporting Hillary Clinton, and yet Barack was already in the race. Just didn't like what I saw.

Black have voted for more White Politicians than any others.

Also know this...White Hillary Clinton could have gotten as many if not more Black votes, if she would have cared to: In recent months, ABC News-Washington Post polls showed Sen. Hillary Clinton running 40 points higher than Sen. Barack Obama among blacks voters asked to name their preference in the Democratic primary.
----------------------------------------

But in Wednesday editions, the Washington Post reported a poll that has Obama leading Clinton by 11 points among black voters -- 44 percent to 33 percent.

But does this mean Obama has got the black vote? Well not necessarily as the poll results would have you think. It just means there are more Blacks than before who are in favor of Obama as president but Hillary Clinton still got more votes than Barack Obama from the African American community. She and her husband, Bill Clinton, have strong roots in the Black community.

In fact, Obama might not be the First Black President if he won in 2008. It was Bill Clinton who was honored as the nation's "first black president" at the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) Annual Awards Dinner in Washington, D.C. in 2001. Obviously Bill was "black enough" for Blacks. (For more of past "black" presidents, read this very interesting article at DiversityInc.com)
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Barack-Obama-Become-The-First-African-American-President?&id=488826

-----------------------------------------
Also note that Republicans Whites voted for Hillary Clinton by an astonishing 24% (although they admitted that they didn't like her).....meaning that Obama's percentage in the MS White Dem vote yesterday was under-reported by 24%!

Total Votes in the Democratic primary in MS = 407,217
Total Republican voting in that number = 13% = 52,938
Total voting for Hillary of the 13% = 75%
Total Republicans voting for Hillary = 37,056
Total Hillary vote count = 155,686
Total Republican percentage made up Hillary's vote count = 23.8% which rounds to 24%
Supporting figures sources:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#MS
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21225989

[BootinUp]

46. Frenchie

I don't have any objection to black voters choosing Obama in part because he is black. Because they have a connection with him. Same as I do not object to women voting for Hillary in part because she is female. I also am very proud of Democratic voters of all races that are participating in the primary and can be counted on to vote for the nominee. The issue here is whether a discussion of race and how it affects the primary is bad manners, or worse.

[NMMatt]

51. Except it is always a one way directed conversation

It is nearly always used to minimize or trivialize Obama's success. Mississippi is completely written off because of demographics yet we are for some reason supposed to think that Ohio is so important, even though Clinton won it on her performance amoung the rural white voters, she should receive the nomination despite her trailing on all counts. And now we are supposed to accept that the only reason Obama (who is exceeding all expectations mind you) is only winning because he is partially black?

The fact is Obama is winning because he is an incredibly talented orator and politician. The kind that probably comes along only once in a generation.

So if you are going to bring up race, at least show how it actually benefits Clinton much more than it does Obama. If it were the reverse, we'd be talking about the Jackson 90's rather than the Clinton 90's. Now that is your "fact."

[BootinUp]

52. The Obama campaign strategy has been fairly brilliant

incorporating a large amount of outsider rhetoric, anti Iraq war rhetoric, anti-Clinton rhetoric. Clearly there is more there than just his race to explain his success. However, if Ferraro or the man in the moon thinks a major factor is race and speaks thusly, is that racism? Can't the Obama campaign and the bloggers that support him, argue against the logic without yelling racist?

[NMMatt]

56. Ferraro made a highly racially insensitive remark

Saying that Obama was "lucky" to be black is extremely ignorant at best. The kind of willful ignorance that shows something a bit more sinister. Refusing to appologize for it shows an arrogance and dismissiveness. Claiming that race is the deciding factor is flat out ignoring the facts (which you yourself have still not addressed). But what makes it clear that Ferraro is not some kind of misunderstood victim here is the fact that she made the same dismissive comments the last time a African American candidate was making a successful run through the primaries.

Calling her out on this is very appropriate under the circumstances. And he hasn't been accussing anyone of racism. Some supporters have, perhaps, but he and his campaign has consistently taken the high road. But in this case he is drawing a line in the sand, that when it comes to overt racist comments from a campaign that has played the umbrage card repeatedly (Monster-gate, Farrakhan, Pimp-gate, etc.) and is trying to drive this as a racial wedge in PA, he is going to call them on it.

[BootinUp]

60. You know I didn't read the original remarks word for word, but I don't have to

in order to argue devils advocate here. There are certainly some hypothetical instances one can imagine "lucky to be black" argument that would be totally true. Are these hypothetical situations very common. No of course not. Which is why the suggestion is offensive. However, if she was suggesting that from her vantage point it was an advantage to be a black male in this particular primary versus being a woman, she might be wrong, but I don't think it takes a racist to make the comment or continue to defend it. It might take a woman who has fought against sexism much of her adult life.

Heres the bottom line, I don't think there is anything helpful for Obama when any of his surrogates or supporters to be yelling racist or drawing lines in the sand on this issue. Not everyone is black and not everyone is a women and therefore there will never be agreement on these issues, rather its who can be most outraged convincingly.

[suston96]

54. Yeah, Obama has done very well in many states because of the black constituencies....

Before, during, and after every election the race demographics, along with how people vote by sex, age, income, religion, and so much more, are presented as a seemingly vital part of the election results.

What Geraldine Ferraro said is what most people would conclude from considering those statistics.

With 99 percent of the precincts reporting, Obama had 61 percent of the vote, compared with Clinton's 37 percent.

The state's Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines, exit polls indicated. Watch what the results mean »

As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.

www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/11/miss.primary/index.html

That's about Mississippi. Go to any state and the demographics will be broken down by race, etc. Are all these statistical reporting agencies racist?

God, stay away from the Statistical Abstract of the United States - the national census - Man is that racist or what? And sexist too.....!

[NMMatt]

58. That really helped him win North Dakota

See, you are missing the whole point here. This is not a matter of someone simply showing demographic tendancies and advantages. This is someone making the highly insensitive and willfully ignorant statement that he is somehow "lucky" to be a black man running for office. Of course that statement could be dismissed as a highly insensitive way of pointing out demographics, except that she continues to make the claim, has made the claim in the past (about Jesse Jackson) and then accuses everyone of being somehow racist for calling her on it. She is either extremely ignorant about the huge disadvantages of a black man named Barack Hussein Obama running for president in a post 911 world (which I doubt as she is highly educated after all) or blinded by her own resentments that she can't see the obvious which leads her to make such callous remarks and then become indignant about it.

[Major Hogwash]

57. Maine, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Vermont - yeah, it was the HUGE black constituency that caused Obama to

win by 20% or more.

LoL

[Major Hogwash]

59. Because Hillary can't win on the issues!!!!!!!

Like the Iraq War.

Homeland Security.

National defense.

Healthcare.

Job creation.

Economical policies.

Environmental concerns.

Tax policies.