A true Progressive could never criticise Obama over Wright.

[youknowmenotdlc]

A. Progressives understand that the black experience in America wasn't all Apple pie, hot dopgs and chevrolet and that they have a legitamate beef with the actions of our country.

B. Progressives know that our foreign policy did in fact play a major role in 9/11 and that denying this is straight out of the right wing "America love her or leave her" playbook.

C. Progressives understand that we are not responsible for what others say and that the gotcha politics of personal destruction is exactly what has brought us Bushco and his ilk.

So I am left with only one conclusion, those on this board who cackle with glee over this tempest in a teapot are either right wing agitators or worse Progressives who have placed the cult of personality above party and nation.

Peace, and remember, support the nominee, whoever it may be or settle for the continuation of the Bush crime family's policys.

[DJ13]

1. I've noticed that Clinton supporters tend to be moderates, not progressives

They arent interested in real change, they would rather vote for safe candidates.

They are the kind of voters the DC insiders have counted on for the last 25 years.

Easy to lead, easy to fool, and the thought of real progressive leadership scares the crap out of them to the point they have no problems playing dirty to keep change from being possible.

[tandem5]

36. This Clinton supporter is as progressive as they come.

Sensationalism and rhetoric aside, everything I've heard Wright say so far I agree with. The message is strong, confrontational, and based in reality. You know what scares the crap out of me? People like Tom Daschle and Nancy Pelosi and their capitulations that they pass off as compromise and unity. Well I don't want "unity." I don't want to reach my hand across the aisle, because you know what, its just going to be slapped away. The irony of the whole situation is I would switch to supporting Obama in a heartbeat if he had stood up and supported Wright and the core ideas of his messages that have been labeled "hateful" and "divisive," but that's the whole point really because if he had done that he would just be a regular old partisan Democrat prepared for the long fight that results in only slow, incremental change for the better.

Progressive ideals are not a new direction, they are a return to the real Democratic party.

[Fresh_Start]

2. I true progressive wouldn't believe that anyone's hate speech

adds to the political dialogue or political progress

[wndycty]

4. Quote the hate! Quote the hate! Quote the hate!

Thank you!

[ampad]

8. You will never get it

It will be some stupid quote taken out of context that they don't agree with or makes them feel uncomfortable. I swear the fake, selective, cries of hate is getting old already.

[casus belli]

10. There's no end in sight

I guess we should be thankful it's our fellow "Democrats" and not the Republicans bringing them up - though I'm not sure how to tell the difference. Getting punched in the gut by a friend doesn't hurt any less than someone else doing it.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Actually, it hurts more.

[casus belli]

20. True. Very, very true. n/t

[shayes51]

30. right on

[Drachasor]

51. Are you saying you can find Wright's hate speech?

Or is your post as empty of content as the person you were replying to?

[bbinacan]

3. What are

"hot dopgs" ?

[hfojvt]

5. pg-frankfurters

I think they are made from tofu, unlike the R-rated frankfurters

[bbinacan]

7. tofu?

:puke:

[DesertFlower]

12. i know.

i tried something called "tofu pups".

[hendo]

21. I reccomend

tofu corn dogs by MorningStar Farms, they cover up the nasty taste of the tofu dogs andactually make them taste like real corn dogs. Yummy

[DesertFlower]

22. thanks, i'll try them. nt

[DemGa]

6. Realism: a Presidential candidate who aligns with hateful rhetoric

aimed at the United States should be a former presidential candidate. By doing so, Obama has shown he cannot be trusted. That's not "gotcha politics" -- just reality.

"I didn't know" won't do.

[Heathen57]

40. That sounds an awful lot like the

Repubs "Love it or Leave it" campaign where if you disagree with the government or what it has done, then you are unAmerican and should leave.

I have to agree with Rev. Wright on much of what he says. The government has been ruled by the entitled white circle for many years. The lack of any progress for minorities, the poor, the working class, all bear the marks of what he has stated.

The problem is that the DLC and many others cannot stand to have those terrible things brought into the light.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I don't

I just want to know that Obama can effectively deal with how Republicans may attempt to use this against him. I'm not worried about winning over racists, but I do care about winning against a Republican in Novemeber. I don't care how real bigots react, we don't need them, but any Democratic candidate has to be able to win a healthy share of the open minded centrist vote in America in order to become President.

The only reason I care about this is because the potential cost of losing in November is too high to ignore. Obama doesn
This was going to come up sooner or later, the tapes were out there. I think it's best that it came up sooner.

[earthlover]

38. Compared to what the Repukes would do to hillary, Wright's tapes are mild

My question to the Chicken Littles and Chicken Little Wannabees....is this all you got?

This story can easily be dealt with. It already largely has.

How can we as progressives sit idly by when a pastor is Swift Boated like this? Sure, I think all of us wish he had used milder words.But there is a measure of truth in them nonetheless.

It saddens me that for partisan purposes some of our so-called progressives can so easily dismiss Wright as some sort of boogie man.

It is not the Republican Swift Boaters I am worried about. I worry at what happened to our party when you can't really tell the difference between what the Republican Swift Boaters would do and what some of our own will do in order to trash a fellow Democrat.

This sorta reminds me of how Wes Clark's name was besmirched early on by those who wanted to trash his candidacy. Some, who did not support Clark but supported other Democrats, wanted to believe in the shit about Clark. Because it helped their candidates, I guess.

I saw a clip from Wright today on tv. I don't like his style of preaching. To me, he sounded ...well, not the type of dignity i am used to. But I figure someone who has grown his congregation must have had some good things he said too. It is easy to take certain things someone says out of context. I sincerely doubt if Wright carries on like that every Sunday.

Most of us who go to church catch some zzzzzs during the sermon. Few of us totally agree with everything the minister or the church doctrine says.

I don't think it is fair for Obama to be judged by the excesses of his minister. It just doesn't pass the fairness test. Guilt by association at its ugliest. Instead of carrying on like we say the Repukes are going to do...thus showing in the real world we are NOT that much different....we should be declaring that this election should be decided on issues and on leadership and on ideals and one what would make America a better place. Some of us seem to be fighting over who can sound like a Republican the loudest!

It makes me sad because this is the same thing that some of us did to Wes Clark early on. We could have done better.

[Radical Activist]

13. True

You win 10 points and move to the next round.

[GeorgeGist]

14. Since Obama chose Rev. Wright to be his ...

spiritual guide, I think it's fair to wonder whether God damning America would lead to spiritual progress.

[Heathen57]

41. According to Robertson, Dobson, and the other

Religious Reich leaders, their God has already damned the US for allowing homosexuals to exist, along with blaming the liberals, NOW, the ACLU, and minorities.

When you worry about Wright, it might be good to also remember what kind of hate-filled speeches we have heard from the WHITE religious leaders.

Seems that there is a double standard there.

[OhioBlue]

63. you're basing your opinion on a man

for 3 words he said.

In his entire lifetime, can you imagine how many speeches he has given, how many sermons he has preached, how much counsel he has offered?

And you want to condemn him for those 3 words.

He has given his life to serve others.

But you need to focus on those 3 words.

Surly there are at least 3 words in your lifetime that you wish you hadn't said.

[Ravy]

15. Obama lost the high ground on C. with Ferraro.

So these pseudo-progressives, as I guess you would call them, don't have much leg to stand on.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

44. How? By responding to Ferraro's ridiculous assertions?

By pointing out that a black person named Barack Obama does NOT have a built-in advantage in the race?

Could Hillary Clinton dispute much of what Rev. Wright is claiming in a similar way?

[Ravy]

48. I meant, his camp and supporters.

For instance, Olbermann calling for the personal rejection and disassociation with Ferraro, by Clinton-- and that rejecting and denouncing the words was not enough.

I am sure HRC would have a dispute with quite a few of Rev. Wright's words, starting with "God Damn America". I don't think we need to get into that.

But the Obama camp had quite a big time associating Clinton with Ferraro. Like the OP says... not very progressive, at all.

[OhioBlue]

67. Is it not Progressive

to call out racism when we see it?

From my perception, the Clinton camp has been using a racist strategy. Do I let that go in the name of "just politics"? Hell No. I'm a Democrat because of what I believe and the values I have. Not because I follow the Clintons.

[Ravy]

80. Take it up with the OP. He said it wasn't progressive. I just pointed

out that both sides were doing it.

[1776Forever]

16. Please read my reply at link - I agree with you 100%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5094105&mesg_id=5094635

[Forkboy]

17. A true progressive wouldn't single out people by saying "true progressive".

Ah, shit....guess I'm out now too. :evilgrin:

[cbayer]

18. And a true progressive would not use your excellent OP

to bash one of the candidates and all of their supporters.

[Olney Blue]

19. I was having similar thoughts- how can this person judge

my political philosophy?

[hendo]

24. It is only natural,

To judge someone else's political philosophy, and only natural to believe that your own personal philosophy is right.

Personally, I don't believe that HRC can with the nomination and I do not agree with her tactics. However, I am attempting to do my best to not let my disgust with HRC effect my opinions of her supporters. In the end we all want the same thing right? A Dem in the White House?

Maybe we should all just start over and admit to that.

[Olney Blue]

35. That is why I think we should all be respectful of each other's choice

of candidates. You are right- we gotta get a Dem!

[mdmc]

23. truely

[Auntie Bush]

25. A true progressives would have never slimed HILLARY the way they have

here on DU and many other websites. Progressives slimed one of their own possible candidates. Not saying you are wrong... but where were you when all the hateful Hillary comments were posted? Wasn't that Progressive destruction of a fellow Democratic? I don't remember anyone saying they were just right wing agitators. I complained they were posting RW talking points and helping bring down one of our own candidates...but I was by far in the minority.

[hendo]

27. How about we all agree

that it is not right to do when either side does it to the other. Let's extend the hand of friendship to our rivals in the party. The only way that we can win in November is to heal the wounds of the primary season as soon as possible.

[cbayer]

32. Yes. nt.

[Auntie Bush]

39. I agree and I'm all for that. I've been begging people to stop the sliming for months

It just so irritating that no one would stop posting hateful Hillary posts or want a truce till the shoe was on the other foot. Just give me and other Hillary supporters a little time to forgive and forget and get it out of our system. It's hard to change course so suddenly in mid stream. How about if we back out slowly without stumbling? :shrug: My hand is extended...now promise not to bite it?

[hendo]

56. I suppose I can be trusted to not bite

or at least, I will try to not bite. It is just a little hard at times to come to a peaceful stance with some of the flame wars that go back and forth from both sides here. I will try to do my best to be civil though.

[Little Star]

29. You hit the nail on the head! People need to look in the mirror.

[JoFerret]

26. Nonsense

.

[Uzybone]

28. Is Obama a true progressive?

after all he just threw Wright underthe bus.

[boppers]

34. No, he threw some invective under the bus. Months ago.

Listen to his words carefully, and you'll notice that Obama is not repudiating the general messages, just the delivery, because the delivery freaks some people out. "Blowback" scares a lot less people than "chickens coming home to roost". "We need to strive harder for social justice" is something white people can get behind, "it's wrong that rich white people control the country" is a message that just plain freaks some folks out.

[Uzybone]

37. well whats the difference

how can you charge that people who critize the opinions of Wright are not true progressives and then say Obama only critized his invective. Isnt that the same thing?

Also Obama did repudiate the general message. He called them “inflammatory and appalling.” thats pretty much repudiating the message to me.

He also said:“I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue,”

[Hoof Hearted]

31. Barack Obama will not be a president of the United States, and he has only himself to blame.

Supporting him in any way if he is the nominee would be a complete waste of time and resources because he cannot win a general election - not now. I will expend my efforts working hard for local Democrats in the unfortunate but thankfully unlikely event he is our nominee.

[whatchamacallit]

52. Dog shit souffle

You pray everyone will get as worked up over this as you. Only ignorant assholes are going there.

[Auntie Bush]

33. "C. Progressives understand that we are not responsible for what others say"

Did you remember that when you all crucified Hillary for the Geraldine comment. Maybe you should ask KO that same question.

[Heathen57]

42. KO corrected Hillary

on the fact that by not stating she disagreed with Gerry rather forcefully she gave the appearance that she was agreeing with her. This just followed a long list of questionable things done by her campaign, and made it seem more plausible.

OTOH, Obama has made it known that he completely and strongly disagrees with what the Reverend says and how he says it. It is just the RW and some Hillary supporters that are keeping it going.

[Auntie Bush]

45. I wouldn't be so sure of that last sentence.

Obama supporters never admit to any of his mistakes.

[hendo]

61. Obama is flawed.

Obama has made plenty of mistakes. Then again so have Hillary and McCain. It isn't like the Jesus/Ghandi types run for president. If you want a perfect president you will never find one.

[youknowmenotdlc]

43. I believe that it was Geraldine who was crucified for

what Geraldine said.

Show me where Obama has said anything that rises to the level of either Wright or Geraldine.

[Auntie Bush]

46. Please don't use Geraldine in the same sentence or category as Wright..

They have nothing in common...except that they are both being criticized.
One unfairly and one fairly.

[AZBlue]

47. You're right - Ferraro's far far worse.

[Auntie Bush]

54. Are you being serious, stupid or funny?

I'll be nice and vote funny.

[youknowmenotdlc]

50. I guess that depends on your

perspective.

By the way, what specific Wright comment do you have a problem with, you know, as a liberal.

[Auntie Bush]

58. Are you implying liberals think like Wrght?

If they agree with him...I'm ashamed to be liberal. In fact...I'm ashamed of our party and DU since you all started tearing the Clintons apart in order to pull Obama up by his bootstraps. Please don't spread gossip for the RW to throw back in our faces. Actually I wish you'd delete your embarrassing post.

[youknowmenotdlc]

59. Well tell me then

what exactly do you find offensive.

Just give me one or two statements, that will suffice.

[Auntie Bush]

65. No, you know very well which ones and I'm

going to bed and really don't have time, patience or interest in arguing with you about how right or wrong Wright is.

[youknowmenotdlc]

68. I see

it's o.k, I won't ask you to defend your position any longer.

[whatchamacallit]

49. That's pretty much how I see it

:thumbsup:

[LordJFT]

53. their talking points have right-wing written all over them

Obama's preacher criticized America's foreign policy! Obama hates America!

[Skip Intro]

55. Therefore, if you criticize Obama over Wright you are not a true progressive. Bullshit..

A presumption that one is above criticism is what gave us bushco and is ilk.

It does not tarnish at all ones progressiveness when one takes offense to a pastor who says, "God Damn America," and talks about Hillary Clinton as if she were the founder of the KKK, making her out to be enemy number one. I am personally offended by both statements. No amount of understanding and empathy can excuse such things. And he was part of Obama's campaign, until he became a liability. And Obama did cite him as someone who inspired him in his book. Therefore, yes, one can criticize not only the statements, but the character of the man who seeks our highest office for his deep relationship with someone who would utter such vitrol. Yes, one can do that, and still be a true progressive.

A cynical person might wonder if you were trying to silence criticism of Obama and/or Wright, effectively ending discussion of it. After all, if you seek to speak critically of Obama (or Wright, it would seem), you can't be a true progressive.

You are so wrong.

[youknowmenotdlc]

57. Basically, yes.

A liberal would understand why an AA preacher would be a little pissed at how this country has treated his people.

Furthermore a liberal would be smart enough and tolerant enough to know that 3 or 4 qoutes out of approximately 1000 sermons does not define someone.

And finally a liberal/progressive/democrat would also understand that it's patently unfair to hold Obama accountable for someone elses statements.

So basically, yeah.

[Skip Intro]

64. As I said, you are so wrong. I sense you are attempting, however feebly, to manipulate people

into silence on this issue by telling them, in all your wisdom, that criticizing Obama and being progressive cannot co-exist.


We're not idiots here. Or sheep.


Btw, happy first week on DU.

[youknowmenotdlc]

69. Thanks

And since we are talking about manipulation it's apparent to me that many Hillary supporters are just manipulating their postions on how the USA treated minorities in the past and how our foreign policy decisions brought death to our shores in exchange for a cheap shot at a candidate that they liked just slightly less then the one they ended up picking.

So enjoy bashing Obama for what someone else said.

I'm sure you would also accept being judged by the same standard.

[Skip Intro]

72. There's a lot I don't like about America's past, and present, thanks. Doesn't mean

I can't or wont take offense to a preacher asking God to damn my country. Sorry. Well, I'm not really sorry.

[youknowmenotdlc]

73. So when you say "Goddamit"

you actually are wishing for God to damn the object of your scorn?

How literal of you.

The next time the Raders miss a field goal at the end of a game I will be careful not to use this phrase as it would mean I am literally asking God to damn my favorite team.

Because as we know, common epithets really are meant literaly.

Your faux outrage would make you a perfect FOX anchor.

[Skip Intro]

75. He's a pastor, hey? Earth to the Obamasphere.

You are so insincere.

[youknowmenotdlc]

76. I think you are projecting

you're own insincerity.

Face it, you are damning a man for something an acquaintance said.

Think about that for a minute, Obama is unworthy because his preacher is a blowhard?

Is this the threshold you want?

[Cameron27]

66. A liberal would expect a preacher of any color

to recognize that woman have also been treated as second class citizens in this country. They've also been considered unworthy of being preachers themselves until very recently.

[youknowmenotdlc]

70. Did he speak about women's rights?

Or is any criticism directed at Hillary instantaneously transmuted into an attack on all women?

[Cameron27]

77. He talked about Hillary as if she

was an entitled white b*tch, and I heard enough of the shit back in the 70's. He didn't criticize her about her stance on the issues, he criticized her because she happens to be a white woman who's never been called a n*gger. She has been called a c*nt however, a witch, a she-devil, and worse. Her competence has been questioned simply because of her gender. This an outrageous dialogue to start in a country where women still get beaten, raped and abused in large numbers. Rev. White is nothing but a simple minded mysogynist who isn't even original in his hatefulness.

[youknowmenotdlc]

78. You have obviously read much into what he said

I'll bring you back to reality:

“Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people,” Wright said. “Hillary would never know that."

“Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

In a Jan. 13 sermon, Wright said:

“Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

O.K.

Tell me where Wright impuigns her sex in these statements? Tell me where he impugns her competance? Tell me where anything here can be construed as promoting violence towards women?

You have taken this blowhards statements and made them worse, in your mind, then they actually were.

[Cameron27]

81. I watched the video,

and I know exactly what the good Rev. was talking about, thank you. I don't need your condescending little lecture either. I was involved in the feminist movement back in the 70's, and I read all the books and heard all the speeches that Wright did. There were a lot of issues between activist groups that needed to be reconciled. Wright's just a flamboyant phony playing on old wounds.

[Cameron27]

83. I'm out of here,

I waited as long as I could. I have some work to finish, so I won't be able to answer if you decide to reply. Good night.

[BenDavid]

60. So, it's all about blaming "whitey". If a pastor preaches that

vile and what you obama folks should look at is not whether obama was present during most of those type sermons is the reaction of the crowd hearing this pastor preach this anti america, anti while speech. That is what is so upsetting is to see the people clapping and shouting in agreement with the pastor. So, if that is the case then I would say that obama too when the preacher man got fired up and spoke against the "white man" obama most likely clapped too.....If a youngster hears stuff like this and his parents tell them no differnece but approve of what this pastor is saying then folks we have one hell of a problem......

[youknowmenotdlc]

62. You assume alot

don't you?

Bad habit.

[NJSecularist]

74. Those damn "white devils"....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4583736&mesg_id=4583736

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[meow mix]

82. only "vile" to non-progressives

guess that explains your view..

[bridgit]

71. It has nothing to do with Wright. Wright is now being exploited by BO supporters...

when they've felt that way all along; Critique BO and you're not a true progressive plain & simple, accent on the simple.

[barack the house]

79. Yep, a person shouldnt have to sell a soul for a vote their qualities should gain votes.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

84. My only criticism is that he didn't start backing away from him....

maybe it's admirable that he stuck with his friend - but Wright even warned Obama that he should back away from him. If he was running for Prez he should have known that this would bite him in the ass.