It's not the policy differences; it's the approach and stlylistic differences

[cali]

between Clinton and Obama that demonstate how they approach things that I find persuasive. Hillary is a top down person. Obama is much more comfortable with empowering the grass roots and taking input and even direction from them. Hillary's discomfort with Howard Dean is one illustration. It's hardly a secret that she wanted Dean replaced. Her campaign itself is another illustration. And their approaches to government transparency is yet another. This may not be important to some folks, but to me it's indicative toward differing approaches to governing.

[maddiejoan]

1. We have seen such differences before

But you ignore the obvious.

Obama is running as for the position of POTUS as a "leader".

Clinton is running for the position of POTUS as a "public servant".

These are fundamental differences as to how these two candidates will govern.

I couldn't disagree with your observation more.
Obama posits that he will heal the nation, through the force of "his" persona from the bully pulpit and "his" unique ability to reach across the aisle.
Hillary posits that she will work for us to bring about the changes that are represented by long standing Democratic platforms. Platforms, that we
as a Party have long embraced.

[izzybeans]

5. I don't get that from her speeches. I thought she was running for Commander in Chief

Both say they want the voices of the people to lead.

You aren't really using either the words of Obama or Clinton to formulate this argument.

[maddiejoan]

7. I'm using their records

their speeches.

their campaign styles.

their work ethics.

I'm using all information and data I have seen on both of them.

Obama is the one running as if his qualifications are based on his persona.
Hillary is running for POTUS.
Obama is running for Messiah.

[izzybeans]

9. Your not using Obama's speeches or his record.

That's clear.

In fact if you use their actual words you might need to reverse your judgement on who is the egotistical one.

[maddiejoan]

10. Obama has proved to me

over and over again --that his speeches are nothing but hot air.

[izzybeans]

11. I could easily say the same about Clinton.

But both statements, mine and yours, require a lot of blindness and selective attention.

[maddiejoan]

15. I don't think you can easily say that about Clinton

For me --everything Obama said after "I will not run for POTUS in the 2008" election" is suspect.

[izzybeans]

16. So you admit to selective attention from the start.

You could say that about 80% of people who run for President.

[maddiejoan]

17. I know Hillary didn't break that pledge

and I know Obama did.

Those are my choices --yes?

[izzybeans]

18. If that what does if for you then by all means.

Edited for tone.

[maddiejoan]

19. edited

response is no longer applicable.

[izzybeans]

20. Sorry I confused you with another person that responded to me.

If you don't mind I'll edit that out. But can leave it if you feel necessary.

My apologies. Wow this place is getting to me. This whole subthread I've not paid attention to your username. lazy on my part.

[BumRushDaShow]

12. And Clinton's speeches are nothing but bleating and croaking

where she thinks if she raises her voice loud enough and does enough point point clap clap point, somehow actual substance will appear out of thin air.

Seems it's time to add yet another one to the ignore! :woohoo:

[maddiejoan]

13. A common tactic

of Month old Obama supporters.

Close your ears to anything that upsets your cognitive dissonance.

[KittyWampus]

29. Hillary is not running as a public servant. She's an Autocrat. Vote for me and let me fight for you

She wants voters out of the process as much as possible.

She prefers and relies on her few large donors and bundlers
Obama prefers many individual small donors

Obama builds grassroots organizations in all 50 states
Clinton just uses the pre-existing party machinery

Obama has been open about his records and advocates Open Govt
Hillary is hiding her archives, tax records, earmarks, library donors

How many times does she say the word "I"
How many times does Obama say "We"

I am sorry, but the facts indicate your view is the reverse of reality. Not trying to sound snippy. But this isn't spin. It's looking at the actual empirical reality.

[MichiganVote]

2. It doesn't seem to me that Dean is particularly grass roots as head of the party.

[elleng]

4. Dean's the one who's promoted

fought for and implemented the 50-State program; if it were up to Rahm +, we wouldn't hear from MANY.

[MichiganVote]

27. I call it the not quite 50 state strategy

[cali]

21. Then you know zip

He's listened to state party leaders and incorporated the ideas of state activists. That's the very soul of grass roots.

[MichiganVote]

26. Yeah right...:)

[elleng]

3. Sounds like a good topic

for discussion. BROADCAST IT, please.

[paperbag_ princess]

6. I see that the biggest difference in their style

is pragmatic vs idealistic. That is going to appeal to different people.

[maddiejoan]

8. yes

exactly.

[JoFerret]

14. You are right. Clinton gets the job done

Obama blathers and mouths platitudes and surrounds himself with sycophants.

Clinton will get down to the work that needs to happen - getting the job done for the American people. the economy, jobs, education and especially health coverage. That and bringing the troops home and ending these dreadful wars. Hillary is the one who can do that if anyone can.
She has the grasp of the issues and the determination to succeed.

She has character. He has charisma.

[cali]

22. LOL!! What job has dear hilly gotten done? The job at hand

is running a campaign and winning the nomination. She done a shit job at that. She's has no organizational vision or talent. She's shown zip leadership. She's blown one advantage after another. She's relied on Bill- to her detriment. She's mouthed mostly pugnacious attack shit or whined incessently about how picked on poor wittle hilly is, all the while pretending to be this great achiever. She's full of it. And no is surrounded by more sychophants than Hilly. Read the articles about her campaign and how people in it were afraid to tell queen hilly the truth- one time after another. She's a fucking disaster of a candidate and evidently can't strategize her way out of paper bag. The ONLY hope hilly has of gaining the nomination is if Obama implodes. She is pathetic.

[Forkboy]

23. And that's my problem...I don't want style, I want solid liberal values.

Both choices are centrists through and through, and while they're certainly not the devil, they're certainly not my own preference for where I want to see this country go. I do think Obama has a better shot at an upside as he's not entangled to the point that Hillary is the system...but he's close, and I don't see the leadership in him that many others do that would make him govern further to the left, which is where I'm firmly parked. :)

[NastyRiffraff]

24. I see the opposite

Obama's preachy style is the epidome of "top down," and is a big turn-off for me. Yes, preachers do use "we" all the time to give the illusion that "we're" all working together, when in reality it's the preacher to imparts wisdom and "grace" (I'm talkng about a certain type of preacher, not all).

Hillary's style is more of a certain type of manager, who does lead but likes a lot of input, and listens to it. The weakness of this type of manager is that sometimes he or she listens to too many diverse opinions. But to me, it's preferable to someone preaching at me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. What You Really Mean Is, Obama's A Man, Hillary's A Woman, And Only A Man Should Be President.

JUST KIDDING PEOPLE! RELAX!!!!

[DarienComp]

28. OMC, you rock.