Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" but When my Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero

[kpete]

Frank Schaeffer
Posted March 16, 2008

Obama's Minister Committed "Treason"
but When my Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

more at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

[babylonsister]

1. Whoa. Recommend. As many times as possible. nt

[MethuenProgressive]

86. "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

Schaeffer's Dad said that?

[Chovexani]

101. No, but he said things equally ridiculous.

Like, for instance, America being founded as a Christian Nation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

130. he may not be far off...

remember The Tuskeegee Project? Remember who introduced crack into S. Central L.A.?

[calimary]

129. I'm only allowed one, unfortunately.

Double standards. Ain't they great?

I remember when jerry falwell publicly accused people like myself of being directly responsible for the September 11 attacks, because I'm a feminist who believes a woman has the last word over what happens to her body and that people should stop meddling in gays' lives.

[Nia Zuri]

2. k&R

[ybbor]

45. as a neophyte poster

What does K&R mean?

Great post though.

[hfojvt]

49. it's a railroad in a Monopoly game

to ride the K & R railroad you pass GO and collect $200. YMMV


JK. Welcome to DU :hi:

There used to be a Demopedia on this site that defined terms.

Kick And Recommend.

[Huge Ego Sorry]

87. you mean this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x190

[grantcart]

55. kick means to kick the post there by keeping it active - alive

r means recommend.

It signifies that you agree but don't have further comment

[elixir]

111. kick and recommend, it keeps the thread high on the board. Ignore the idiots.

[flpoljunkie]

69. Interesting--the "marriage of convenience between r-w fundamentalists and "progressive" Clintons...

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post " are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/im-already-against-the-n_b_90628.html )

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

[lligrd]

3. K&R

[Bluerthanblue]

4. excellent K&R

:hi:

peace~

[DesertFlower]

5. K&R

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. kick nominated n/t

[msongs]

7. who cares what a minister says? as a rule they have no credibility anyway outside their "flock" nt

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. thank you for pointing out the double standard

and the fact is nothing would please right wingers more than to
censor the African American Churches.

[corkhead]

9. I am looking forward to the start of the campaign against the republicons.

Obama is leaving KKKarl Rove's playbook in tatters and turning their shit right back on them.

[davidinalameda]

11. I'm going to repost this on a board I frequent

it should blow a few neocons' minds

[PBS Poll-435]

10. I don't think that,

"America's Sins" are for debating in a primary campaign.

[stillcool]

22. Race-baiting...

has been used as a tactic since the beginning of this Campaign. If the issue of race is constantly brought up, then the history of racial inequality in this country will be as well. The Political Reality is all about 'our sins'. The sins our government is committing each and every day that are destroying our country, not to mention the Iraqi's country. But as long as we stick to the race issue, we can let all that go.

[Gonnuts]

96. True

America's sins should be what we should be talking about. Because it's these sins that have put us in the place we are, it's how the rest of the world defines us. It's what we need to expose if we are to do anything about them.

I get the feeling that what's making some uncomfortable is simple cowardliness. Avoiding truth doesn't change truth and the truth of the matter is that America has committed some of the most egregious sins ever committed by any nation in history. To not confront this is tantamount to being complicit in these crimes.

Evil triumphs when good men stand by and do nothing.

[BeatleBoot]

12. Treason...Republican Hero....Sounds the Same To Me!

That's a Lose:Lose for Obama.


:rofl:

[liberal N proud]

90. That is what I was thinking as well

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

13. K&R!

[NanceGreggs]

14. As always, kpete ...

... thanks for doing what you do - and do so well: finding the truth, and posting it here.

[Berry Cool]

15. Very good points.

Whether or not you agree with anything Jeremiah Wright said, it stands up as small potatoes compared to some of the things quoted as having been said about America by religious right-wingers.

And look at Fred Phelps and his Westboro gang...we protect those nutjobs and their right to appear at at the funerals of everyone from soldiers to the people who died in the NYC crane accident (don't think those won't be the funerals they'll want to picket next) because they think America is "damned" for allowing gay people to live. Why do we do it? Because we protect free speech, even when the speech revolts us.

K&R

[polmaven]

37. Of course we protect free speech..

even when it is revolting to us.

We do not have to accept acceptance of that speech from our presidential candidates.

If Geraldine Ferraro's statement was rejected...as it was...roundly...then Reverend Wright's needed to be rejected as well.

Ferraro's were rejected within days. I know, I know. I will hear "yeah, but she only did it under pressure!"

I will contend that Senator Obama knew Reverend Wright's views for years, yet he still took him on as an advisor to his campaign. He still attended the church and called the reverend his mentor. It wasn't until he was pressured that he rejected some of the views.

We can protect free speech. We do not have to condone it by our silence or priase, however.

[americanstranger]

47. Then what was Obama doing all over TV Friday night?

If Geraldine Ferraro's statement was rejected...as it was...roundly...then Reverend Wright's needed to be rejected as well.

"Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."

Any other questions?

----

And while I'm here - you wrote...

Ferraro's were rejected within days. I know, I know. I will hear "yeah, but she only did it under pressure!"

I will contend that Senator Obama knew Reverend Wright's views for years, yet he still took him on as an advisor to his campaign. He still attended the church and called the reverend his mentor. It wasn't until he was pressured that he rejected some of the views.

Sort of a disconnect there.

- as

[polmaven]

68. Where is the disconnect?

I acknowledge that Senator Obama has now condemned the statements. but point out the fact that so many...including many here at this board...are chastising her for not doing it almost before it was said, while Rev. Wright's statements were years ago, and NOT isolated, yet it was not until he was put under pressure that he condemned them.

If you are thinking I have not acknowledged what he was saying Friday night, please note the word used is needed, not needs.

The post was not about whether or not he had condemned them, but about his tolerating that KIND of thing for so many years, until pressured to come out against it.

[beezlebum]

70. first of all,

this whole thing was siftboatesque.

i suppose someone had to bait him with something after the ferraro gaffe (see?? see?? barack did it too!!!11!).

i guess obama ignored his "advisor's" advice- that he should distance himself from him if running for presidency, b/c of that whole white dude whining about the lack of miss white america pageants/no white history month/WET thing.

secondly, what specific problem do you have with that KIND of thing?

seriously- pick apart any one of wright's comments and tell me how it relates to something the kkk did or said- and i'm talking a side-by-side comparison with direct similarities, no subtleties or nuances or implications- exact parallels,
b/c until white people are being lynched
and forced into poverty
and sent to substandard schools
and being denied jobs and equal pay
and locked up and even executed for crimes they didn't commit
and being chased out of towns
and threatened
and taunted
and raped
and beaten
and dragged by pick up trucks till their deaths
and being treated as though they are subhuman on every single level
and not even being allowed to speak their minds
all for being white
and on a regular basis
and for centuries
i don't fucking want to hear the whining.

this whole "outrage" bullshit is really starting to get on my nerves. i thought it was isolated, but it seems it's not.

i can not believe the number of "progressives" on DU who are seriously "indignant" over this.

edit to add: did you even read the op?

[proud progressive]

93. could not agree more with you!

hard to believe that so many still do not understand.

[Gonnuts]

98. Plus - what he said is true!

Let's not leave out the double-standard where McInsane can wrap his arms around a preacher that has made statements far more unpalatable with not hardly 1/10th the media coverage.

God forbid Wright didn't go the extra step and mention the possibility that our government was actually involved in planning 9/11 ... one can only imagine the shit-storm that would have created! But what he did say can be argued is absolutely true. Obama should have not so much completely distanced himself from Wright's statements as much to say that although he doesn't totally agree with them, or agree with them at all, but that some do see an element of truth in them. After all you didn't see anyone in the congregation boo Wright and walk out. But Obama is like the rest, a politician first and foremost and will continue to do what he thinks he needs to do as opposed to what's right.

Fact is we don't have an honest functioning media anymore. Case in point: this morning I got through on C-SPAN with an editor and journalist from the AP. I mentioned that there's a not unwarranted perception that the media in this country is now nothing more than a shill for a faux-fascist government posing as a democracy and pointed out the Sibel Edmonds case as an example. I asked if the journalist knew who I was taking about - he said he didn't, which of course floored me, because either he was lying or he's willfully ignorant. The commentator at this point asked me to elaborate and I went on to explain Sibel's case and how someone is the profession of journalism could not be aware of a case that was featured on 60 Minutes and the London Sunday Times did a three week front page article on exposing treason at the highest levels of our government and this so-called journalist professed to know nothing about it just proved my point.

Needless to say they cut me off at this point.

[keith the dem]

103. Absolutely 100% agree!!!!

Some of the so-called "progressives" at this site have had me depressed the last few days. We are supposed to be better than this.

We, progressive democrats, must understand the wrongs in our history, and because we love our country, strive to make things right.

We, progressive democrats, must show compassion for those held down by our history.

WE ARE FAR FROM RESOLVING MANY OF THESE ISSUES. We, at this site, should know better.

The other thing that make me very angry, is the false accusation that Rev. Wright belongs to a black nationalist racist church. The United Church of Christ, of which I am a member is a predominately white main stream protestant church with roots back to the pilgrims. Reverend Wright is highly regarded and admired in our denomination. Although the UCC has a long history of social justice (including fighting for those on the Amistad), do you think a racist, separatist, preacher would remain a part of the mostly white UCC? (More than a few of our local churches have split off because of our ordination of gay pastors and our acceptance of gay marriage.)

Most of Reverend Wright's controversial statements have more that a bit of truth to them. Our MSM will fake outrage on Wright's out of context statements, while they glibly repeat BUSH-CO's lies as fact.

[polmaven]

133. This post is absolutely outrageous,

Talk about race baiting!

No one on this board has EVER, to my knowledge, denied the existance of racism. No one on this board, including myself, in the posts on this thread, has denied that racism is still very much alive.

There is NO ONE here who fits the whole white dude whining about the lack of miss white america pageants/no white history month/WET thing.

The specific KIND of thing with which I have a problem is just this KIND of post. I will NOT sit quietly by and be accused of being a racist...I don't care who the accuser is...Reverend Wright or you!

If I was in a church at which the pastor was this divisive....and you cannot tell me that these few were isolated instances....I would NOT stay there. There are many other choices. If I did choose to stay, I certainly would not make him/her into my "adviser".

As far as your list goes. again....no one here, to my knowledge has ever denied the existance of racism. There are many, however, that skirt the issue os sexism, and yes, a few who deny it.

I grew up during the "feminist" era and, of your list, I, myself, or women I loved and admired DID experience - from your list- the items in bold:

and forced into poverty
and sent to substandard schools
and being denied jobs and equal pay
and locked up and even executed for crimes they didn't commit
and being chased out of towns
and threatened
and taunted
and raped
and beaten
and dragged by pick up trucks till their deaths
and being treated as though they are subhuman on every single level
and not even being allowed to speak their minds
all for being women
and on a regular basis
and for centuries

Reverend Wright is correct that Hillary has never been called N*****. Has Barack Obama ever been called C***? Is there a WEB site out there right now purposely named with the "N" acronym in mind?

I'm ashamed that racism still exists in this country. I truly am. But the existence of racism does not make me a racist, and I resent the inference that, because I am white, I am racist.

[ksquire]

102. awesome. so seriously...

your "concern" is that years ago, before anyone cared, he should have stood up and randomly discredited his pastor?

by that logic, have you ever heard Hillary come out and publicly denounce Bill Clinton for lying to the American public about getting a blow job in the White House? She's known about it for years, but she hasn't. Does this mean that she condones lying to the American people? It certainly had more deleterious effects on this country than his pastor's statements, most of which (AIDs aside), I think any sociologist or serious student of history would agree with.

[polmaven]

134. This is so disconnected it isn't even worth answering

So I won't.

[NDambi]

64. Well, since we don't have tapes, we don't know Ferraro past comments

[NedSchneebly]

94. Curious ... is there any major candidate that is associated with Phelps?

Just like a Rethug! >:|

[Kurovski]

16. K&R. (nt)

[merh]

17. K&R

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

[NDambi]

66. man, they are gamble with ther black vote...trying to put it on repubs..people aren't stupid..The

Clinton machine is behind Preachergate!

[HuffleClaw]

18. holy apples and oranges batman

but a cute try nonetheless

[Sinistrous]

23. I suppose you meant to say something rational in your post.

Would you be so kind as to let us in on what the hell it was?

Sinistrous

[HuffleClaw]

29. it was pretty clear n/t

[il_lilac]

19. big k&r

I knew something wasn't sitting right with me about this ridiculous outrage (well a lot of things). But this sums it up pretty well. Thank you!

[slinkerwink]

20. kicking and recommending

[yardwork]

21. k&r. Thank you for posting this.

[stillcool]

24. thanks kpete!

[bhikkhu]

25. My perspective too...Wright is part of a long long tradition

I was "raised with the bible", so hearing Wright's sermons is like re-reading a chapter of an old book - the Book of Prophets, in this case. Where the wrath of god was called down upon the wickedness of Israel, unless it would repent and change its ways....ironically, the style of sermon that Jeremiah Wright delivers in the popular videos would be called a "Jeremiad", after the classic preaching of the prophet Jeremiah in the Bible.

[K-Check]

26. The whole controversey reminds us of why the founding fathers

separated church and state.

[The Wizard]

46. As long as the Church is tax exempt

there is no separation of Church and State.

[KoKo]

105. Exactly....This kind of talk coming from the Left is as bad as when it comes from the Right...

Keep the Preaching out of the Politics. And, be careful with candidates who claim inspiration from extremists on the Right or the Left...because you never know what you could end up with in Policy decisions.

[kwenu]

27. Your Father was White therefore it's okay.

[ekwhite]

28. When a white man denounces our country

Because of our moral failings, and even calls for overthrow of our government, it's OK, as long as he is a conservative.

If a black man says the same thing, for better reasons, he is reviled.

What a racist country we have.

[Bullet1987]

30. POWERFUL piece on this hypocritical, bullshit topic!!!!

[rosesaylavee]

31. K & R

This is going to be quite the healing process if Obama gets elected. Realizations of the many levels of hypocrisy and racism will be revealed on a regular basis. There's hope for America yet.

[mikekohr]

32. SWEET!

[OwnedByFerrets]

33. K & R

[Bullet1987]

34. This issue exposes a big fucking ass level of hypocrisy in this country

[EffieBlack]

36. And the continuing bigotry and fear of blacks - especially black men

The problem is not with what Rev. Wright said - but that a black man had the nerve to say it at all.

[Swamp Rat]

35. Yes indeed!

:applause:

[Scurrilous]

38. K & R

:thumbsup:

[kristopher]

39. And the truth shall set you free. K&R

[Eric J in MN]

40. That was good, but I wish he had more quotations of what he said...

...at Republican events which implied America should be damned.

[hisownpetard]

41. K&R. Great post.

[democracy1st]

42. Yes We Can

Great post I needed this one.

[Utopian Leftist]

43. Awesome! n/t

[Bette Noir]

44. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I am *so tired* of the scandalized reactions to perfectly normal rhetorical flourishes. There's nothing un-American about exhorting people to do better, not to rest on one's laurels. Heck, it's a preacher's job.

Now, can we quit with the religious tests for office, already? I like Obama fine, even if he goes to a church that, until his recent retirement, employed an old-fashioned fire and brimstone preacher.

[Beartracks]

48. Wow. K&R

[Barking Spider]

50. K&R

[earth mom]

51. Two wrongs don't make a right. Can't believe people would support this crap!

:wtf:

You all are missing the point. DU has become some kind of echo chamber!

FYI-The fundies have just about ruined this country and now we're looking at more of the same from Obama & Co! :puke:

Same sh*t, different day. :grr:

[NDambi]

67. The Clinton machine is pushing this shit...they are ruining the country right along side the MSM

Win at all cost!

[earth mom]

127. No, Obama will do anything to win. He has lied his a$$ off to win, taken money from criminals,

made speeches full of empty rhetoric so that no one can pin him on any position, he has stolen Edwards' platform, and now is lying about his pastor who was his freaking mentor for 20 fucking years!!! WTF!!!

You need to get real and get a clue! :eyes:

[babylonsister]

74. Does the truth disturb you? nt

[earth mom]

126. What truth? Obama LIED HIS ASS off! He's been going to that church for 20 YEARS!

And he's saying now he's shocked?! :wtf:

You are the one that can't handle the truth.

You and your other Obama cult members need to stop drinking the Kool Aid!

[donheld]

52. Always the best kpete

thanks

[peace frog]

53. The K and the R

Thanks.

[MagickMuffin]

54. So, Frank why aren't you demanding to be interviewed by the MSM to expose your father's sins?.?.?

It would seem that that would be the only solution to helping to put a stop to this character assassination of Barack Obama and Rev. Wright.

There are definitely certain news shows you could ask to be a guest on, Keith Olbermann comes to mind.

Of course his dad is just part of the problem, now we have Rod Parsley and John Hagee who have taken up Schaeffer's mantle. Both of them have endorsed John McCain and Parsley is McCain's Spiritual Guide.

EXPOSE THEM ALL, NOT JUST THE BLACK PREACHER BUT THE WHITE PREACHERS WHO PREACH HATE FROM THEIR PULPIT.

[grantcart]

56. I think that Frank would be happy to this guy has had an amazing

journey and has turned into a very thoughtful guy. Saw him on C span talking about his lastest book a while back.

[Grinchie]

57. I was wondering how long it would take for this fact to be acknowledged

I think that there are thousands of examples of white preachers doing the same thing as Wright to get people involved.

[woolldog]

58. K

[SunsetDreams]

59. Sweet Sweet Sweet! Thank you!

[SalmonChantedEvening]

60. Truer words. K&R

Well said Mr. Schaeffer.

Thank you kpete :hug: :hi:

[SunsetDreams]

61. k&r

[Bentcorner]

62. Who said that Oboma's paster committed "treason"?

I think the things that Rev. Write said while behind the pulpit were disgusting and that the decision to make this man his moral compass shows very poor judgment on the part of Barack Obama. I don't remember anyone saying Obama's paster committed treason.

[treestar]

63. Do you similarly judge all Catholics?

The pope has said a thing or two condemning groups of people.

How about all of the evangelical right, for Falwell's or Pat Robertson's statements?

[Bentcorner]

65. I sure would. I don't remember anyone running

for the Democratic nomination saying that they Falwell or Robertson was their moral compass. If and when that happens, I will be just as critical of that hypothetical candidate as I am of Obama.

[tanyev]

71. I heard this guy speak once for a work-related event.

I was worried it was going to be a right wing love-fest, but he mostly talked about a book he co-wrote with a liberal about how the kids of the upper class are not serving in the military. It was pretty interesting.

[IsItJustMe]

72. It's OK when white people do it, hence, the double standard.

[intheflow]

73. The difference must be that Schaffer is white.

I've been thinking something similar. When whites Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky talk about the racial and economic divides in this country, they're heroes of the left. But black progressive ministers saying the same thing are demonized by the left and assassinated by the right. :(

[beezlebum]

76. well

i have to disagree to an extent here- there are actually quite a few on the "left" who do not like chomsky or zinn, and i suspect that those who are attacking wright and obama over this are those very ppl. either that or they are not really paying attention to what wright has actually said, or are just so tickled that they have some "dirt" to fire at obama that they don't care what he said, they are just taking advantage of the situation.

i have asked a handful of them to give me specifics and still, nothing.

and really, my bigger disagreement- i don't think 'left' is quite accurate- the ppl criticizing wright are only left in that they are left of bush. clinton, after all, is NOT "left" leaning. both hillary and bill are conservative/right of center democrats (though some might argue they aren't even democrats/are in fact "DINO's, i won't go there).

[workinclasszero]

75. Hillary, Rush, rethuglians, Newsmax and Fox, all allies!

Hillary ought to be ashamed. But of course Hillary has no shame and no moral limits to curb her voracious hunger for power!

[BeliQueen]

77. wow.

that just says it all doesn't it.

[Apollo11]

78. "Don't tell me words don't matter"

The argument here seems to be that Barack Obama is no worse than "Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family". Quite a powerful endorsement! :eyes:

[redqueen]

79. If anyone's able to, flood call-in shows with this.

FLOOD.

[SunsetDreams]

124. I agree

this needs to get out there, the hypocracy is disgusting.

[1776Forever]

80. Sending this to the new David Gregory Show - Link at this website link....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23580538/

Isn't it odd how one persons experience is seen so differently from another's perceptive? Aren't we as Democrat's supposed to be open minded? I never had much of a problem with Rev. Wright. I see it as a generational issue and know some of the issues he went through in the 50' & 60's that formed his beliefs.

:applause:

[classof56]

81. I grew up with these exact same sermons---bad, bad Americans!

Frank nailed it and I am glad he did!

Tired Old Cynic

[texas_indy]

82. Wright did NOT COMMIT ANY TREASON according to the US Constitution.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiii.html

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.


Just because some one says it in a publication does not make it so. No TREASON was committed.

[NewJeffCT]

83. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

i wonder if people will ever bring this up in the so-called mainstream?

[redqueen]

85. They might if they get enough pressure.

This needs to be mentioned by every caller to every talk show where this subject is being discussed, and e-mailed to every right-wing friend & relative. :)

[MidwestPerspective]

84. Rev. Wright is a Boomer, Obama is Generation Jones

Rev. Wright represents the old school Baby Boomer orientation which much of this country is so burnt out on. Obama is different. Relevantly, numerous major media outlets, including The New York Times, NBC, The Wall Street Journal, and Newsweek Magazine, have all concluded in recent weeks, that Obama is specifically part of Generation Jones (born 1954-1965, between the Boomers and Xers). I recently heard a panel of generational experts on a radio program discuss this specific question for around an hour, and they overwhelmingly concluded that Obama is a GenJoneser, not a Boomer nor Xer. This isn't surprising, given that Obama was born in the middle of the GenJones birth years, and those born toward the middle of a generation tend to most personify it. As experts have shown, Barack's bio and political worldview is quintessential GenJones.

[snappyturtle]

88. K&R

:kick:

[Rainbowreflect]

89. Thanks for posting this. I have been trying to make this point for days.

[speedoo]

91. K&R, and bookmarked.

[uponit7771]

92. K&R and Remembered

[SunsetDreams]

123. Kick

[uponit7771]

95. Can we keep something kicked? I'm new, thank you for responding

[KittyWampus]

97. it's sad so many here will ignore it.

[populistdriven]

99. Error: You've already recommended that thread.Error: You've already recommended that thread.Error: Y

[heliarc]

100. K&R!!!! Exactly! nt

[asdjrocky]

104. I guess I'm un-American

Because I agree with just about everything the good Minister says.

[noonwitch]

106. I'm glad to see that Francis Schaeffer's son turned out so well

I remember trying to read a book of his dad's when I was into religion. It made little sense to me, but then, I was 18 or so and had never read much about religion and philosophy to put it in context.

[MessiahRp]

108. Jesus... Fuck that is awesome.

I pretty much think this is false outrage anyway. Every single Clinton supporter who is trying to put on some faux outrage about this is doing so to cover Ferraro's racism and try to somehow smear Obama unfairly.

This puts it in context and considering how Obama backed away from Rev. Wright that should pretty much be endgame.

Too bad the Clinton crowd is just trying to attack Obama and could care less about the facts of this case because it seems to me much ado about nothing.

I suppose though I'd be scraping and clawing for anything I could find too if I knew my candidate had lost the primaries (less delegates, less votes, less states = no way are super delegates changing the results of the primary for you).

It's too bad that racism and completely idiotic attacks on Rev. Wright are all they have.

Rp

[AGirl]

107. K and R

[AGirl]

109. K and R

[elixir]

110. Obama is a fool for not denouncing and rejecting this guy a long time ago, like Oprah did. Rev.

Wrong can say whatever he wants, it's Obama's association with this nutbag that's a problem.

[tblue]

119. Because he's got character, that's why. Barack's his own man, not Oprah's.

I disagree with everything else you said, too. Why are you so offended as to call the Rev. a 'nutbag'? Or is it that you think Obama should bend to popular political will? I don't think that's his bottom line and I wouldn't respect him if it was.

[AlphaCentauri]

112. say cheese K&R

[apocalypsehow]

113. K & R.

n/t.

[anitar1]

114. K&R n/t

[SunsetDreams]

115. K&R

[BumRushDaShow]

116. K&R

Kick this sucker! Amazing the hypocracy.

:kick:

[Uncle Joe]

117. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[shenmue]

118. Ask the Republicans. I don't call any of the crazy fire and brimstone idiots heroes, either.

:dunce:

Don't try to have it both ways.

[uponit7771]

120. Don't know if I kicked this but I'll do it again

[NYDem Observer]

121. K&R

[Danieljay]

122. and please noone forget Reverend Moon and his relationship with the Bush Family. n/t

[mzmolly]

125. K, B and R

:kick:

[Maestro]

128. Wow!

I hope this gets some media attention. What hypocrisy!

[uponit7771]

131. Kicking this, I think I already rec'd it though

[Tarheel_Dem]

132. I'll second that.........

:kick: