*Mission Accomplished: McCain pulling AHEAD of both Dem Candidtates....

[npincus]

Great job, Dems!

McCain's numbers are ascending, ours are descending... this is a disatser in the making, but it's NOT too late to turn it around. STOP THIS INFIGHTING... yes, I have been guilty of it myself. But a so-called Pyrhicc victory lies ahead, and we will bear responsibility for it... how does President McCain sound to you?




http://www.pollster.com/

[Skidmore]

1. That's what happens when you have a Republican run both

a Democratic candidate's campaign and the Republican's campaign too.

[rocktivity]

86. DUzy!

:rofl:

Bust seriously, folks, it's not inherently valid to pit two candiates from one party against one of another, because that's not going to happen "in real life."

GET THEE BEYOND ME, POLL! UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!!!


rocknation

[moobu2]

2. Thank you Barack

[npincus]

3. you've just demonstrated my point.

Dems need to pound McCain and not each other, and let the best man/woman win onour side. This BS has got to stop.

[Eurobabe]

5. How's bout HIllary drops out?

:hi:

[mwb970]

7. The sooner the better. /nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. how about Obama drops out?

He is so divisive.

[JeanGrey]

52. The leader should drop out why, now?

[Evergreen Emerald]

65. leader? It is nearly a tie. Why should either of them drop out?

Would you drop out when inches from the finish line and nearly tied?

[JeanGrey]

84. A tie? Perhaps you can't do math? Obama is the leader.

[nickn777]

83. Obama is a dead duck in a GE.....

Hillary Clinton is damaged goods too but represents the "best" chance to win. It sickens me that we are heading towards Senator "50 more years in Iraq" McCain, but I am not sure anything, or anyone, even Al Gore, can fix this.

[JeanGrey]

85. I'm afraid not. Look around you Hillary is DESTROYING this

party and I can assure you I will never vote for her. I may even vote against her. Along with many, many others.

[DrDan]

4. and it is time to suck it up and resolve the Florida/Michigan mess

Is it worth pissing-off lots of Florida democrats by holding fast to an insane rule. After all, the rule punished the voters for actions the voters were neither responsible for nor could do anything about. And not the DNC has many many D-voters upset - and prepared to vote for McCain.

Call off this disenfranchisement. Seat the delegates. And lets get beyond the power-grabbing ploy.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

17. rules, schmools, they're not for Hillary

laws, civil rights - not a problem for her.

[Texas Hill Country]

79. You are talking about peoples VOTES, screw the rules... this is democracy, not monopoly.

punish the stupid politicians, not the voters.


Damn, this makes me so angry... Not including FL and MI means you are telling people their VOTES dont count... that they have NO right to VOTE.

It is wrong and, frankly, anti-american.

[Yurovsky]

81. If there are do-overs, fine. If not, hell no ...

HRC has manipulated the system. It doesn't have anything to do with people being disenfranchised by the Obama campaign or any other candidate who was still running prior to Super Tuesday.

The DNC set up rules, and the rules were not adhered to. HRC should not benefit from her double-dealing and dishonesty.

[reflection]

19. Why is it an 'insane' rule? n/t

[DrDan]

24. because it penalized those that could not control the outcome

the party leaders actions led to voters being disenfranchised.

Penalize those leaders - not the voters.

There should never be a rule that disenfranchises a voter for actions beyond their control. Like being a woman, or a black, etc. These rules are completely against the very fabric of the Democrativ party.

[Exilednight]

32. If you really think about it, Florida and Michigan are not disenfranchised. Even if you add in.....

their totals, Obama still wins with pledged delegates and popular votes. IF that were to ever change, then I could see a scenario of disenfranchisement.

[DrDan]

35. then there really is no reason to not sit the delegates

it would bring the party together.

I am not an Obama supporter (nor a Hillary supporter), but if that's the way the votes fall, then that's the way the votes fall.

Sit all delegates and count the Florida votes. If Obama wins, the so be it. Obama should be the first to accept and support this.

[Exilednight]

46. There is a reason not seat the delegates. The party broke the rules, and were punished.

[DrDan]

48. but if it pisses off a lot of Florida voters . . . who will lean to McCain,

then it seems to me it would be better to resolve it by seating the delegates

plus - doesn't that more accurately reflect the will of the Democrats? As opposed to a 48-state view?

[Exilednight]

55. To your first point, McCain, unless he is stupid, is going to pick Crist to be his ......

VP. Florida is lost. People who pretend that's it's still in play are just fooling themselves.

To your second point, even if you seat all 50 states it still does not reflect the will of Democrats.
a. Hillary broke the pledge in Michigan and kept her name on the ballot.
b. We will have more than a 50 state view with our current delegates. Guam, PR, Virgin Islands, and other US territories will be seated, the sad part is that they don't get a say in the GE.

[DrDan]

60. I am not sure I agree re Crist

seems to me he is a bit too moderate . . . McCain needs a solid conservative.

Also, there are those nagging rumors of Crist's sexuality. McCain does not need those with the religious right voters.


on edit - Jesus Crist - I just canot spel this morning. . . .

[Exilednight]

62. With the way the party screwed over Florida, he'd be a fool not to take him......

if repugs have proven to be anything, it's loyal to a major fault. They don't care what their politicians do in their private lives as long as they push legislation to get what they want.

[DrDan]

72. McCain is cash-poor

seat the delegates so he is forced to campaign - and more importantly, spend money in Florida.

To concede it by not seating delegates, and pissing off some D's allow him to spend that money elsewhere.

[Exilednight]

73. You're right, he is cash poor, but that's the wrong strategy. Right now Obama is tied with.....

McCain in Texas. The best strategy is to concede Florida, then dump resources and money in Texas. McCain will chase him. He doesn't want to be known as the repug who lost Texas to the Democrats. Keep McCain off the east coast and it gives Obama time to shore up support in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Right now, neither Hillary or Obama would win a head to head match-up against McCain in Ohio, and both win Pennsylvania narrowly.

Our party needs to widen its support across the west. We've got the west coast sewn up, now we need to start working out way inward.

[DrDan]

74. so if we concede Florida . . . McCain does not need Crist . . .

he can pick a solid conservative that will deliver the religious right. . . . he has no claim there as yet . . .

[Exilednight]

75. If he doesn't pick Crist, then you fight him in Florida, but.....

I really think he will be under pressure to pick Crist.

Here's the missing puzzle piece, if McCain loses Texas and doesn't have Crist on his ticket, then Florida will fall our way, but let's say it doesn't.

Texas has more electoral votes than Florida does. I would rather have Texas as a win than Florida. It would be like the repugs stealing California from us. The psychological factor alone is worth the win, and it proves that we haven't given up on so called "red states".

[marshall]

68. Prisons are full of people who are pissed off about broken rules

Does that mean we should just throw out the rules?

[DrDan]

49. the party broke the rules . . . but the voters were punished . . . n/t

[reflection]

37. I see your point

but what is the alternative? To have every state play Musical Primaries and just let them count anyway? It would be chaos.

[xultar]

6. I think most people feel the media picked the dem candidates. We have a great speaker and an

ex-first lady.

Where is the experience people?

That is what this will come down to. Obama will win the nom and lose the GE. We've elected an inexperienced guy already and y'all wee how that shit turned out. Now isn't the time to elect inexperience.

I wish Biden, Dodd, Edwards and Richardson were still in it.

This is some sad ass shit.

[cali]

12. I don't think so. I don't think that it will come down to experience

not with an economy like this, and McCain's long disinterest and lack of expertise in domestic issues. And you don't have a crystal ball. You can't possibly know that Obama will lose in the general. It's just too early to say. We can say that the longer this race goes on the more damaging it is to the eventual nominee, but that's a far cry from saying that Obama or Clinton will lose in November. And for pity's sake, comparing either Clinton or Obama with bush is pathetic. bush's problem wasn't his relative short term in office prior to the presidency, it was who he is: An incurious man with a limited intellect and fixed ideas. Abraham Lincoln had less experience than either Clinton or Obama. Some presidents had vast experience and were disasters. It's not all about experience. It's about fusing experience with intelligence, judgment and temperment.

It's ironic that you tout Edwards as someone with experience when he had less than either Obama or Clinton. And Clinton is not merely an ex-first lady but someone who's been in the Senate fo 7 years. Obama is not merely a good speaker but someone who served in the Illinois State Senate for 8 years and has served in the U.S. Senate for 3.

[xultar]

18. I prolly shouldn't have added Edwards now that I think about it, but I like his initiatives

I like the fact that he rolled up his sleeves and did stuff in NOLA. That was cool. I know it was all an act.

Because they are all acting. They are politicians.

I even added Richardson whom I really don't like because of his big gaffe on the LOGO debates... but I think we need more than Hillary and Obama at this point. I'm very disappointed the others didn't last. I don't like how shit folds up after IA. That will always wreck our chances.

Oh, and I thought you put me on Ignore?

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Clinton's Quest For 2012 Is On Track

The Clinton's excel in the art of personal destruction. I hope that the Superdelegates put this thing to bed ASAP.

[Perry Logan]

10. Break out the tinfoil hats.

[ima_sinnic]

40. right. the ole "conspiracy nut" conversation-stopper.

HRC has shown she is me-firstish enough to do anything to claw her way to the top o the heap, including kissing rupert murdoch's @$$, praising McScum over Obama, slinging racist bullshit mud, etc. etc. (tired of posting all the usual well-known slimeball tricks and tactics of hillary) so I have no doubt she wouldn't shed a tear at the demise of the whole country, let alone the Democratic Party if it isn't going her way to ensure a win in 2012.

why not? you think she actually gives a crap about anything so petty as integrity, honor, unity, loyalty, etc.? she's a pearl-clutcher like babs who doesn't clutter her beautiful mind with such petty concerns, as long as she's #1.

[Perry Logan]

71. I'll make you one with earflaps.

[Bentcorner]

9. The more it looks like Obama will get the nomination, the better McCain's chances get.

That's what happens when we nominate a candidate that is unelectable in a general election. I expect McCain's numbers only to get better as people grapple with the fact that Obama selected a man that hates America as his moral compass.

[ima_sinnic]

14. oh right. BULLSHIT. stuff a sock in it.

[Bentcorner]

15. What a mature and well thought out response!

Is it safe to imagine you were stomping your feet while you typed that?

[ima_sinnic]

16. yes, it matches the intelligence level of the post it responds to

were you watching sean hannity when you posted?

[Bentcorner]

21. Should someone who tells people he or she disagrees with to "stuff a sock in it"

really criticize and intelligence level of anyone else? No.

People who are still supporting Obama need to face the fact that he is nearly unelectable in a general election. Even though he is charismatic and very likable, he has failed to win one single major blue state or swing state. He's where he is today by winning elections in red states. States that will be going into McCain's win column in November.

Does anyone think Obama has a chance of taking any of those red states away from McCain in the general election? Even before it came that he chose a paster that hates America to be his moral compass, his chances at doing that were slime. Now it's become impossible.

I know some Obama supports insist that even though Clinton won all the major blue states, those states will go in Obama's favor in November if the superdelegates give Obama the nomination. Really? I voted for Obama in the Maryland primary and I wont be voting for him in the general.

[NDambi]

23. So, you'll be voting for McCain then?

[Bentcorner]

36. No, I'll either not vote for President or do a write in.

Not that it will make a difference. At this point, if the superdelegates give it to Obama, they will be making McCain the President.

[NDambi]

41. And if they don't they will be giving to McCain...Hillary ain't no shoe-in

[Bentcorner]

45. You are right, but at least she has a chance.

I don't think people understand just how damaging Rev. Wright is to Obama.

[ima_sinnic]

51. wow, and you have some kind of lordly overview of "how damaging"

in the real world, The People are tired of "who said what"--when the latest bullshit scandal and mud comes on, they change the channel. Nobody gives a rat's ass what his pastor said.

[NDambi]

53. I disagree. Hillary is damaged goods and we haven't even seen her

tax returns (she's refuses to release them), Bill's library donor's list or her schedules, meetings and logs when she was first lady, especially since she's claiming she gained such experience during those times.

What Hillary is hoping is that she and her camp can throw Obama under the bus, and people will forget about all those things.

Newflash: Her kitchen sink strategy has already damaged her, she won't get the black vote or the youth vote, they'll stay home or just won't vote for president before they let the Clinton's get away with their BS.

So, pucker up and say President McCain, especially since you said you won't vote for Obama...and I'm telling you Clinton can't win either.

[ima_sinnic]

47. like the freeps & repukes won't come out of the woodwork to vote AGAINST billary

. . . that is what makes her TRULY UNELECTABLE--she is (irrationally or not, for whatever reason) severely hated. Some--many--repukes get apoplectic at the thought of her as president and they will crawl on their hands and knees for ten miles over broken glass for the chance to vote against her.

Meanwnile, Obama on the other hand has had quite the opposite effect on many repukes. He is the one you hear many saying they could vote for. At least they might not feel inspired to move heaven and earth to vote against him.

But stay in your little dream world that anyone gives a flying fuck about what his preacher said one time on some vague day in the past. Word from the "real world" is that The People are tired of who said what, they are turning a deaf ear to scandal and mud and negativity. When that kind of drivel comes on, they change the channel.

[Bentcorner]

54. How many Republicans say they could vote for him after the hateful stuff

his paster and moral compass said? The more people see the footage from Barack's church, the less likely they will be voting for him. Of course his chances would be better if he should that he has the ability to win a blue state.

[ima_sinnic]

59. oh get off that "moral compass" crap. you really think obama is anti-american?

"the more people see the footage"--and I'm sure you're doing everything in your power to make sure that footage is as widely disseminated as possible, along with your fake outrage about his "moral compass" and all that shit.

hey, for what it's worth, as if anybody even gives a shit, Obama didn't say any of it, for one thing, but also, it happens to be generally true. The U.S. has been the world's prick, screwing everybody else over, and black people have gotten a bum deal. so what if his pastor is angry?

Your idea that people are going to switch to a war-mongering crazy-ass neocon jackass like McCain because of what some preacher said is downright ignorant.

[Bentcorner]

69. Most Americans don't vote. Giving them the choice between

Obama who has a man who says "God Damn America" and thinks the U.S. invented HIV as a moral compuss and a 72 year old man that sees us in Iraq for the next 100 years just makes people want to stay home on election night.

[olkaz]

57. That is the most childish BS, very sick of hearing it

Go join up with Nader. He loves guys like you.

[ima_sinnic]

29. yeah, somehow I got the feeling that the idea of a McCain win doesn't really, er, upset you

Obama "is nearly unelectable in a general election," yet you voted for him in the primary, but you won't be voting for him in the general.

they really need to ban republicans from voting in democratic primaries. not to say you're a republican or anything . . . :eyes:

[Bentcorner]

39. Your feelings mislead you.

I not only voted for Obama in the Maryland primary, I donated to his campaign. Then I heard his wife say that this was the first time she was really proud of her country. That really bothered me. Then I heard the hateful and ignorant rhetoric from his paster/moral compass.

[NDambi]

43. Your choice. Your life.

He's going to be the nominee though. Bank on it.

[ima_sinnic]

56. I call bullshit

you're like all the fake "former Democrats" who call into C-SPAN spewing their outraged garbage.

poor widdle you! you're soooo disillusioned about the truth, as seen through the life and experiences of a black man, that you've had to turn away from "your" candidate! oh, the humanity!

try to get a grip, okay? just admit who you really are and be done with it ferchrissake. you're so transparent you're a joke. get some troll lessons.

[Bentcorner]

67. The "truth"? That the United States invented HIV?

I'm not a former Democrat. I've been a Democrat for over 20 years. Just because you think it's a mistake to give Obama the nomination doesn't make you a Republican.

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. ...

:spray: :thumbsup:

[NDambi]

22. Add this too:

[ima_sinnic]

25. ...

:D

:thumbsup:

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

11. All of you are funny, You need to chill

It will be the economy, stupid.

By the time the election is here.

McCain=Bush=worst economy since 1930=Barack Obama POTUS-Chill-You know I am right

Hard times people vote pocket book and we are about to have the hardest of hard times
FDR=inspired and comforted our nation=Obama=at least 20 years of Democratic Rule=how long it will take to sort out this mess the Repubs have left our country in

[Eurobabe]

13. MSM media is alwready carrying water for the GOP, asshole Larry Kudlow

on Morning Joe. What a stupid idiot this guy is. :puke:

[nolabels]

78. It took me $70.00 to fill up my cars gas tank yesterday

Can't say i didn't know it was coming and knowing i am better off than many, i can say that shit IS hitting the fan now. The news may not be reporting it, but peoples pocket books are sure feeling it.

[workinclasszero]

20. Exactly the result that Hillary wants!

She can't win the nomination this year so she engaged in a Rovian shit slinging character assassination of Obama to make sure McCain wins.

Hell, she has endorsed McCain over Obama for president on at least 3 occasions!

See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=related

End result: Her good friend John McCain wins the presidency and Hillary gets another shot in 2012.

Its sooo easy to see what her game is. What I can't figure out is why the democratic party is going along with her plans to sabotage the party in 2008 for personal gain.

[DemzRock]

A poll is a snapshot... And often an inaccurate one.. If we can heal at the Con, we'll OK! n/t

[HughMoran]

26. HAHAHA!! HAHAHA!! HAHAHA!! HAHAHA!! HAHAHA!! HAHAHA!!

:rofl:

Anybody who is touting polls 8 months ahead of time in a tanking economy and a likely uptick in Iraqi violence isn't thinking straight.

[npincus]

28. "Iceberg, Schmice-berg" , said the captain of the Titanic.

Keep laughing. Nipping destructive behavior that is consuming our party is a wiser path.

[HughMoran]

64. ...said the boy who cried wolf

Keep being a doom sayer - we need you to balance out those who say we will win easily.

[npincus]

66. Doomsayer? I wake up every mornng with a smile on my face....

then I remember who our president is.

[HughMoran]

70. Heh

We are in agreement on that. Let's hope that these polls really are skewed based on the fact that Dems aren't united behind one candidate yet.

[DemzRock]

27. A poll is a snapshot... And often an inaccurate one.. If we can heal at the Con, we'll OK! n/t

[IsItJustMe]

30. I don't think it matters to Hillary supporters, like their candidate, they love them some McCain

also.

[Jamastiene]

31. We'd probably do better to quit with the circular firing squad

bit. Just saying... :shrug:

[npincus]

34. Exactly!

I wouldn't mind if Skniiner shut this forum down. Discourse here has become so degenerated and destructive- we are practically throwing shit at each other, it doesn't bode well for our party or getting a Denm President elected.

[Perry Logan]

33. How might having The Worst President Ever™ campaigning for him affect McCain's chances?

[Umbram]

77. Depends on how much time Hillary spends campaigning for him too. (nt)

[Steely_Dan]

38. Oh, I think It's Already...

a done deal. McCain will be our next President. Nice job, Dems.

-P

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. And we blow it, AGAIN!

x(

[Azathoth]

44. If Hillary can't have the presidency, no Democrat will have it n/t

[JeanGrey]

50. Well, yeah. What did anyone think was going to happen?

McCain is running around looking Presidential while our side continues race baiting and bashing each other, Hlllary won't give up when everyone knows she can't win and while both of them drag each other down McCain makes out like a bandit. oh God I so fear we are screwed and we did it to ourselves......................

[Bread and Circus]

58. Thank Hillary and her "kitchen sink"

[Jennicut]

76. Its almost too late now, I feel we are doomed

We have nearly blown it like we always do. Obama has this Reverend Wright "problem" and Hillary does not have enough delegates to take the nomination from Obama without forcing Florida and Michigan to seat the delegates even though they were not suppossed to count before the votes were cast. Plus, even if she gets these delegates she might not have enough and will have to resort to having the superdelegates decide and even if its in the "rules" it will hurt the Dems by seeming undemocratic. We are doomed. I am not a cultist or Hillarybot. Hey, I wanted Al Gore to run but I realize why he didn't-running for president these days is a joke. No talk about ideas, policies, or solutions. Its about who has more money and how much dirt we can throw at the other person until it sticks. Meanwhile, with the Dems self destructing McCain will get the so called "independent" media behind him. I'm disgusted. Yes, this Reverend sounds like a crazy idiot but none of Obama's ideas that he has stated in this campaign reflect the extreme of the Reverend's ideas and he is ahead in the delegate count. If Hillary was ahead then I owuld support her as the nominee at this point but she is not. Plus, I knew throwing the kitchen sink at Obama would eventually hurt the Dems in the long run as there comes a point when taking on your rival twists and turns into aiding the enemy. I would say this if it was Obama doing the bidding for McCain towards Hillary. My ultimate goal is to rid the Whitehouse of these corrupt power hungry Buhies and that includes his new buddy McCain and his love and lust for power through military occupation. McCain may be even worse then Bush in that respect as Bush simply followed the advice of Cheney and the other neocons. McCain truly believes going after terrorists means using our military in every region deemed not democratic enough. Bush was in love with spreading democracy, McCain is in love with the military itself. We may get to the end of this where the Dems beat up on each other so much that the nominee at the end is weakened enough for the media to exploit. Its a shame as either Hillary or Obama would be better then McCain. Alot of people around here still are not looking at the ultimate goal and that is why we are doomed. There is still time to get a strong nominee and stand behind that nominee but the infighting has to stop. Look at the ecomomy, its tanking. We are still in Iraq. I could mention so much more. We need to get it together, fast.

[RiverStone]

80. Focus on the positive...

You said it: There is still time to get a strong nominee and stand behind that nominee but the infighting has to stop.

I think it is WAY, WAY, WAY, premature to declare we are doomed.

Plenty of time to stand behind the nominee --- I just hope we decide who that is by the last primary.


peace~:)

[npincus]

82. On top of that, the filthy MSM is playing Wright 24/7 a la "Dean Scream"

NBC played it on the Today Show: "GD America" without reporting that Obama had repudiated those very comments last Friday.

[aquarius dawning]

87. Hillary has gained 7 points on McCain in the past month according to gallup (IIRC)

Obama has picked up one point on him according to the same poll. Check out real clear politics.