Why I am for "closed" primaries

[Highway61]

Talk about cynical!

To me, when you vote you should be casting your ballot for who you think would make the best president, not for who you think your "party" can beat or to prolong the other party's fight. That's why I favor closed primaries. To vote Democrat you must be a registered Democrat and the same if you're a Republican. If you're an Independent, well that is the choice you made so you should have to wait for the general election. Otherwise, you get this type of bullshit!

Many Voting For Clinton To Boost GOP...

For a party that loves to hate the Clintons, Republican voters have cast an awful lot of ballots lately for Senator Hillary Clinton: About 100,000 GOP loyalists voted for her in Ohio, 119,000 in Texas, and about 38,000 in Mississippi, exit polls show.


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/

[Horse with no Name]

1. Oh I get it

When republicans cross over and vote for Clinton--they are just fucking with our election process.
When they cross over to vote for obama...then they are just swayed by his message.

You guys are too much. :puke::rofl:

[jackson_dem]

3. He has lost the Democratic vote by 1 million+. If Obamites care so much about Dems only

Then they should be counting only Democratic votes in the popular vote. It is indies and rethugs that have put Obama over the top thus far.

[Hugabear]

16. Get a friggin clue, will you?

There are rethugs voting for BOTH candidates. How, pray tell, are you going to go through every vote and decide whether it was cast by a rethug, independent, or Democrat? Last I checked, there were no party identifiers on the actual ballots.

I keep seeing you folks claiming that "rethug" votes are putting Obama over the top, but I have YET to see a shred of proof. You assume that ALL rethugs are voting for Obama.

[spooky3]

29. the Boston Globe and others are extrapolating from the exit polls

Go to CNN.com, election central, and click on the exit poll results for each state (there are usually 2-6 pages of responses and the party affiliation is usually toward the end). You will see that a certain % told the pollster that they were Republican or Independent and answered other questions.

[mckeown1128]

7. Two different situations...

Obama was pulling Republicans when there was still a competitive race on the repuke side. People were giving up their vote on the republican side to vote for him. Their support of him was also reflective in the exit polling. Now that the neocon race is over republican turnout has spiked in the Democratic race. Obama is still pulling the same amount of Republicans... but their are NEW republicans turning out ... and they are for Hillary ONLY in the primary.. the exit polling shows that HER support will NOT be there in the fall...

So you see there is a big difference.

[Horse with no Name]

11. Blow smoke up someone else's ass will you?

I know better.

[Hugabear]

19. You should know better than to offer up a substantive argument

Because when they see your explanation, all they see is "OBAMA GOOD...HILLARY BAD"

They'll overlook every single word you respond with, and come back with the exact same argument that you've already countered.

[JeanGrey]

9. You got it.... simple really

[Hugabear]

13. So you don't think that people have different motives?

How simplistic.

[Horse with no Name]

15. Gotta be simplistic with the level of morans around here these days

All most of you can do is beat your chest and say "OBAMA GOOD"..."HILLARY BAD" thump thump thump
No substantive arguments or reasoning...very much like the GWB supporters.

[jackson_dem]

2. Why wasn't it mentioned that Obama won the rethug vote in both Texas and Ohio?

If it weren't for rethugs and indies Obama would have lost both states by even more.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. Apparently, that's different. Republicans vote for Obama=good.

Republicans vote for Clinton=bad.

I do agree about the closed primaries, however. One party shouldn't be able to subvert another party's primary.

[Exilednight]

Because Hillary won the rethug vote in Texas and Ohio, and spare me your tripe spin, I've heard it .

[jackson_dem]

12. That is another lie the Obama campaign is using

She won Democrats 56-42 in Ohio and 53-46 in Texas. The overall results were 54-44 and 51-47.

[Exilednight]

14. You are correct in that she won Democrats, and she also won repugs, but she lost .......

independents.

[jackson_dem]

20. No, she lost rethugs in both states

Why do you think the lying Obama machine never posts the numbers? She lost both in the initial exit poll numbers shown on television that night (apparently every Obamite was in the bathroom at the time :sarcasm: ). In the adjusted numbers she tied in Ohio. The real question is why the Obama machine lies with such a casualness...

Texas

Democrats: Clinton 53, Obama 46
Rethugs: Obama 53, Clinton 46
Indies: Obama 49, Clinton 48

Ohio

Democrats: Clinton 56, Obama 42
Rethugs: Obama 49, Clinton 49
Indies: Obama 50, Clinton 48

[Exilednight]

22. So you just show that you lied? That's might brave of you. You said Obama won rethugs in Texas....

now they are tied. I heard the Maytag man is pretty lonely, but if you keep spinning at this rate you're bound to break the spin cycle.

[jackson_dem]

24. That is because the raw exit poll had Obama winning both states

Exit polls are adjusted. The site wasn't working and I hadn't seen the adjusted info until now.

Can you admit the Obama machine fed you a lie. Clinton did not win the rethug vote in either state.

Funny how the exit poll data regarding party was flashed on the screen by MSNBC yet no Obamite or anyone in the campaign saw it. :sarcasm:

[Exilednight]

25. It wasn't the Obama campaign that I saw the info from, it was CNN.

[jackson_dem]

26. Really? That is funny since the networks use the same exit poll data...

[Exilednight]

34. Actually they don't. Some networks use different exit poll data, thus the reason you can have......

conflicting exit data. I work for a news agency and we conduct our own exit polling.

[Hugabear]

27. Exit polls don't mean a damned thing - give me the REAL results

We've all seen how exit polls have been wrong before.

Show me the actual ballot counts. If there's a way that you can look at a ballot and determine whether it was cast by a Democrat, rethug, or independent, I'd sure love to hear it.

You simply cannot accept the fact that Rushbot rethugs were voting for Hillary because their Master told them to. You cannot fathom the fact that despite the fact they do everything else he tells them to, that they support all of his advertisers, that they would also vote for Hillary because he told them to.

[spooky3]

31. I think people can accept that just as easily as they accept that exactly the

same thing happened with respect to R&I votes for Obama. What makes no sense is that, without any empirical evidence, people are trying to make the inconsistent claim that the R&I votes for one have to be interpreted differently from the R&I votes for the other.

[Horse with no Name]

17. How can you keep up with ALL the lies of that campaign? n/t

[chyjo]

4. I live in New York State

And strongly dislike having a closed primary system with a caveat. I knew a lot of people that wanted to vote for Obama but couldn't because they were republicans, in the same way many of these same people wanted to vote for Edwards in 2004 but could not. I do think however that Open Primaries should only occur when the other party has an active primary going on. So Ohio and Texas should have been the last two viable open primaries.

[Highway61]

41. Then they should have gone and registered as a democrat

They had plenty of time to change their your party....they saw this coming

[shadowknows69]

6. I'm in NY

I'm a little torn. Definitely if we have an open primary the rethugs should have to do it too.

[JeanGrey]

8. OF COURSE they have - they are not stupid, they know

she will be easier to beat!

[jackson_dem]

21. Which is why Obama won rethugs 53-46 in Texas and tied in Ohio (after the msm adjusted. He won 1st )

Among Dems he lost 53-46 in Texas and 56-42 in Ohio.

The Obama electability card is dead. He no longer polls better than her against McCain and will only do worse as his negatives rise as he gets more scrutiny and criticism from the media.

[JeanGrey]

43. Please - Hillary is absolutely HATED by a huge majority

of people in this country......and always has been. I'm just surprised people ACT surprised.

[OHdem10]

10. McCaskill, Bradley spend their TV Time Praising Independent

and GOP votes.

Obama always comes across as more interested in GOP and Independents.

Shepherd smith interviewed Youth Vote---They openly state they
are not Democrats. They are not interested in Democratic Party
they support Obama and Obama only.

It has been reported that Obama does not get Democratic Voters,
yet the Media push his candacy. That Librul Medid more often
than not support GOP Policies. Go figure.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. First, the parties tell us that no third party or non-Dem/GOP option is viable

Then, they tell us that we shouldn't be able to vote in their primaries.

So, if we want any say at all in OUR elections, we are basically EXTORTED into joining their stupid fucking Parties.

This independent says the following: FUCK YOU.

[Apollo11]

23. I sense anger

If you feel so strongly about exercising your right to take part in the Democratic primaries, would it kill you to change your affiliation and become a registered Democrat?

It doesn't necessarily mean that you are always obliged to vote for the Democratic candidate.

But it means that you have decided to take part in the Democratic primaries. Not in the Republican primaries.

There is no other country in the WORLD where the process of selecting party candidates is as open as it is in the USA. In all other countries you have to pay a party membership fee if you want to take part in the process of selecting that party's official candidates.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. I don't want to join a political Party, and I shouldn't have to, as a matter of conscience

And I frankly don't give a shit how they do it in Turkey, or Zimbabwe, or Hungary.

You can't have it both ways. Closed primaries are basically extortion operations that force party membership IF you also conclude that the two-party system is the only realistic way of voting in the general.

I'll eat that shit: I have to vote for EITHER a Dem or a GOPer in the general, even though I disagree in principle with the platforms of both parties (one less than the other, obviously). Fucking fine. I'll do that. I'll vote for the Dem. Great. But there is some shit I will not eat. Like registering as a Democrat when I find the Party platform contrary to my conscience.

That's what's at stake in open primaries. In your system, I'm FORCED and COERCED into registering as a Democrat if I want any say at all in my choices, which you say are the only choices. Well fuck that. Angry? Yeah, you betcha ass I'm angry. It's mafia extortion.

[Apollo11]

37. You aren't FORCED to register as a Democrat.

I would never say that your ONLY choices are to vote Democratic or Republican.

If your conscience tells you to vote for Ralph Nader, that option is also there.

We can warn you that a vote for Ralph Nader will indirectly help John McCain.

But nobody can force you to vote for the Democratic ticket in November.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. I want to vote for a viable candidate

I should have some say in who that candidate is.

You make barriers to entry for anything other than yourselves insuperable, then tell us that we have no say other than what YOU decide? Fucking smug bullshit. Yeah, go ahead, vote for Nader. Right. FUCK YOU.

[Apollo11]

39. again with the anger ...

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Yeah

Because you Party fucks are fascist assholes with this shit.

[sniffa]

28. What's to stop them from registering as Dem to game the system?

:shrug:

[Highway61]

42. Thanks Sniffa

See post #41...I just got home from work..I should have scrolled down. I should have never posted this.... this place is insane! What happened to DU? ( I am ready to exit this place)

[goddess40]

32. The fact that we are having this argument about how the rep. screwed our choice

is proof we need a closed primary. We don't really know who the democrats want as a presidential candidate.

Democrats not republicans or independents should choose the democratic candidate. If they want to go as far as joining the party then let them do it. I remember watching the disgust on the face of some republican's that came into a Dean rally and I thought they were going to vomit when the volunteers stuck the Dean stickers on the republican's shirt.

[Hepburn]

33. So in a closed primary what is to stop someone from....

...registering in one party to vote in the primary for the weaker candidate and then voting in the GE for the candidate of his/her choice against the weaker candidate.

A closed primary cannot prevent that IMO.

[TheDoorbellRang]

35. Well, too bad you're not in charge of the open primary states

:shrug:

As an independent, I've been happy to live in open primary states my entire life. I'm beginning to think that the byzantine system we have of 50 variations on a voting theme more or less works out in the end. If nothing else, it sure makes it more of a challenge to the candidates.

[Captain Hilts]

36. Surveys suggest in 11 out 16 open primary states, R's are voting for Obama. nt