It really is time to STOP blaming the HRC campaign for Obama's

[jasmine621]

shortsightedness is seeing and understanding very early on that he should have resigned from Trinity United and quietly joined another church with his family. Rev. Wright would have understood and it all could have been a moot issue right now. But to blame HRC or her campaign for this is truly unfair. This stuff is a Republican "wet dream" and they were and continue to hold lots of stuff like this against Obama that will gradually come out little by little. Since there is so much hate against Hillary, I am certain that she will be blamed for anything and everything that comes out about Obama and thus, the Republicans will be able to "kill two birds with one stone" and many here at DU will have made it very easy for them.

Talk about "judgment" all you want to. My spouse and I, who watch Trinity broadcast every Sunday morning, knew back when Obama first announced that Rev. Wright was going to be a problem for his candidacy and we thought back then that he would or should quietly resign his membership and join another church. It was poor judgment on both the part of Rev. Wright and Obama not to make this move with this understanding. Obama could easily have said when the question would certainly arise that he left that church because he did not agree with some of the things being preached or said. No one would have been able to attack him as they are now. Hillary did not force Obama to make a poor judgment call about this situation. Obama allowed this to happen...and he must suffer the consequences. And he will. The Republicans are very good at what they do. They and the elite among the Dems have used Obama to drive a political stake into the hearts of the Clintons and now they will bury Obama under a deluge of mud that the mud-slingers have stockpiled.

[peace13]

1. And I guess you and your spouse are just good with this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4986046

[Horse with no Name]

2. It IS time for obama to start taking some personal responsibility

if HE has an image problem...it is his problem, not Hillary's.
It is NOT Hillary's "job" to do damage control for his campaign. IF he has a problem with his middle name, religious influences, etc...it is HIS responsibility to do the damage control. Not her.
I have even seen idiots here proclaim IF he loses, it is Hillary's fault.

For the life of me, I see very little difference between obama and george bush in the personal responsibility department.

Guess what?
If obama loses it is because he was a weak candidate to start AND nobody was allowed to vet him for fear of being called racist.
You reap what you sow.

[itcfish]

19. But Don't You Know

Everything that happened to obama in the past 20 years has been Hillary's fault? Geez, Just read all the Anti Hillary posts on DU.

[roguevalley]

22. Hillary is a member of a theocratic snake pit, the fellowship. If you

are going to flog religion, make sure you flog all the shit and not just half of it.

[Horse with no Name]

40. I'm not speaking solely of this issue

It is *everything*.
You all consistently obsess about Hillary congratulating barack, Hillary defending barack, et al ad nauseum.
obama is responsible for *HIS* campaign. He is responsible for *any* perception OR misperception of him.
He is responsible for answering questions about his religion, his finances, etc.
IF he would come clean and not be evasive on all of these matters...then it would NOT be left up to Hillary to have these questions thrown at her during times when she is trying to sell herself...not defend him.
This is NOT the first time the warning signals have come on about the extreme religious practices of obama...McClurkin, Caldwell, Wright...there is a pattern here and it is NOT the pattern of a progressive candidate.

[RiverStone]

3. Obama will rise above it...

...and I don't see the consequences as anything more then short-lived.

If it was not this, it would have been something else. The pukes and the power grabbers inside the beltway will come at Obama with a lot more before it is all over. Of course, wading through the mud and turning adversity into inspiration is part of what will define the Obama campaign - and his presidency. :)

[saracat]

6. It is extremely difficult to turn hatred of any group into inspiration.

I am not a bit "inspired by Wrights "hatred" of all Europeans".and I am not inspired by anyone who condones such hatred in others. I have a bigoted family member and I have nothing to do with such a person.But Obama condones such hatred. He may condemn the "God Damn America remark but he doesn't condemn the hatred of Europeans.

[peace13]

8. WOW! n/t

[RiverStone]

16. Obama condones hatred??????????????

:wtf:

Time to change the litter box saracat.

[yodermon]

21. Wright hates Europeans? Obama condones it?

:rofl:
Wow. Please start a new thread with your post. I am thrilled to see HRC supporters use such tactics. :thumbsup:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

23. When did he say he hated Europeans? I haven't been on here a lot...

n/t

[anigbrowl]

26. Sorry, I don't feel hated

and I'm actually European. I'm quite willing to accept the proposition that Europe is responsible for a pretty unpleasant phase of history thanks to the pursuit of colonialism.

[dionysus]

ROFL, you're losing it....

come now, banky will make it all better...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. According to Hillary, this makes Obama more electable because he's gone through the fire ...

and shown he can fight the kinds of attacks Rethugs will bring to bear in the GE and, despite the battle scars, he has persevered and stands ready on day one to carry on and . . . yada yada yada.

[itcfish]

20. Rise Above it?

Is Obama now "heavy cream"?

[VotesForWomen]

32. he can't rise above it; he *is* it. nt

[Submariner]

4. shortsightedness?

The reason there is such a stir about preachers, priests, etc., is because they are all shortsighted, including the candidates that believe this poop. When you mix the world of imaginary sky-gods and the make believe fanatasies and myths of religions with the reality of every day life and the politics that goes along with it, this shit is going to keep happening.

[cali]

5. Faulty premise.

I've seen very few posts blaming the Wright thing on Clinton.

[againes654]

7. And it really is time

for Hillary to realize that she isn't going to win this thing. SHE IS LOOSING. No amount of bad press has changed that. In fact, in the midst of "pastorgate", Obama actually gained delegates. You know, the whole reason we are in this race, for delegates.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. agreed

[mrJJ]

10. Lil ole idiot Norman

One of Clinton's liabilities is Norman Hsu... The question is why hasn't the MSM taken a real hard look at Norman Hsu's backround? A con man and thief that had a "meteroric rise on the Democratic political scene". ROFLMAO really? Actually idiot Norman's picture as a youngster appears on an FBI B&W surveillance telephoto picture tagged (unidentified associates) of a NYC street gang tied to Chinese Organized crime based in the US...reference U.S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. Asian Organized Crime (1984,1989, 1993). . Btw Norman did also funnel funds to Sen Barrak Obama's campaign...Interesting tidbit.. who directed Norman too the then freshman Sen Obama? .... ding ding ding... The Clinton's. No one has the history to a certain err element of ready, willing & able philantropists of an asian persuasion then the Clinton's. A walk through recent history may be in order for you youngsters.

Charle Trie
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/op080397.htm

Norman Hsu's Boss Chan Tse-Chiu aka Eddie Chan
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE2D6173AF931A3575AC0A966958260

Norman
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=5643329

Rendell had said last week he planned to keep nearly $40,000 of Hsu's money even though he was wanted for failing to appear for sentencing after pleading no contest to a felony charge of bilking investors out of $1 million.

"Though Norman is my friend, and remains so, his failure to appear casts a new light on his assertions regarding the original case," Rendell said in a statement before Hsu's arrest Thursday. "As a result, I will follow other elected officials and donate the money he contributed to me to charity."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/07/politics/main3240773.shtml

Reports are that former NY Chinatown Tong leader turned federal Informant Wing Yeung Chan has recently been escorted in and out of his facility by the US Marshall Service... I wonder if Chan Wing is being used to verify anything that Norman has reportedly told the told the US Attorney?
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1995/10/27/1995-10-27_judge_slaps_ban_on_leader_in.html

Rethugs are close but no Cigar... PRC link is total bull...I'm sure it was added to spice their article.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12220

[Yurovsky]

12. Just what churches do you "approve" of?

And what should we do with that pesky 1st Amendment?

Look, just because you go to a Catholic Church doesn't make you a pedophile. Guilt by association is NOT a progressive value.

[KittyWampus]

13. it's time for the Hillary supporters to admit they're happy to embrace Republican values

what the fuck are doing on DU?

[Pawel K]

14. I don't recall anyone blaming Hillary for this

maybe you can point me to a post that proves me wrong?

Hillary is to blame for a lot, but I don't blame her for this. Like you said, I blame Obama. But your entire premise is a fabrication.

[txaslftist]

15. If you think HRC walks away from destroying Obama into the WH, you'd better rethink

I don't hold HRC responsible for the Rev. Wright deal, you are correct that is all on Obama. That said, HRC has taken a tack in this race that guarantees virtually zero African American support in November. Which means a John McCain presidency.

If it's okay with HRC to toss the African American vote under the bus, that's fine, if that's her calculation. But I hope she isn't looking ahead to 2012. She'll not only lose in November, she'll never have even a remote shot at the nomination again.

I guess I'd better get used to the idea of a McCain presidency.

[jillan]

24. If Obama can't close the deal, then no one is more responsible than him.

[txaslftist]

33. If Obama goes into the convention with more votes and delegates...

and HRC walks out with the nomination, McCain will win the White House.

And it'll be on Hillary, no one else.

[jillan]

35. If Obama gets the nomination handed to him without getting 2025 delegates

he will not be accepted as the nominee.

[txaslftist]

36. So?

The same holds true for Hillary.

The fact is, if Obama goes into the convention with more popular votes and more delegates (which appears likely), and HRC walks out with the nomination, her nomination will be perceived as illegitimate, and a "theft" by the Obama supporters. They will walk away from her come November, and she'll be remembered as the candidate who threw away the Democratic Party's chance at the White House in 2008. It isn't going to matter that a lot of her supporters will think her selection in such a process was "legitimate". If you think that the less than 50% of Democrats who back her is all you need to win the White House, you're going to be disappointed. Sure, there will be the satisfaction of having slapped down Obama, but what good will that be to 2008's Mondale-Ferraro?

[jillan]

37. It is true for both candidates. Obama or Hillary have to win 2025 delegates to be our nominee.

Nothing less.

And according to Madame Speaker, this primary is about delegates, not votes.

[txaslftist]

39. Isn't that what I just said? You've confused me.

[jillan]

41. No - you said that if Obama has more delegates he should get the nom.

I'm saying if a candidate doesn't have the 2025, they should not get the nomination.

[txaslftist]

43. So if neither goes into the convention with 2025, we shouldn't nominate anyone?

That seems a little harsh.

[jillan]

45. DNC rules say a candidate needs to have 2025 delegates to be elected - you

tell me?

Do you really think that the 48% (or whatever it is today) of Dems that support Hillary will accept Obama as our nominee if he only has 1800 delegates? (just pulled that number out of the air)

[txaslftist]

47. And if they both enter the convention hall with, say, 1900 to 1800?

Because that's not an unlikely scenario.

[ihavenobias]

17. Pastor-Gate should be called Non-Issue-Gate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5083427&mesg_id=5083427

[txaslftist]

34. That's what it will be called.

Fortunately, we live in pretty short news cycle. "Pastorgate" as a story is all resolved. This is not a deal where further investigation is going to trickle out more and more information in a steady drip drip drip all the way to November. The story is, at its worst, Obama has a crazy-ass pastor. How about that?

This is a story with a short shelf life. I think we're fortunate to have it come out now instead of in October.

[Froward69]

18. The republicans don't

Dare bring this up... Have you seen the crazes :crazy: Mcain't has accepted endorsements from??? :eyes:

Blow back would be an understatement!

[cooolandrew]

25. I think Barack doesn't want to run away from peoplehe considers friends as McCain clearly doesn't...

...need to. In a rational world McCain would be denoucing anrenoucing some of his endorsers.

[still_one]

27. I don't blame her for that, I blame her for the baggage that the Clinton's have

and how if she is the nominee, that baggage will cause our defeat for the white house in 2008

If you think the swift-boating of Kerry was bad, you haven't seen anything yet regarding what they will rehash on the Clintons

[elixir]

28. K&R

[uponit7771]

29. Do you have a link blaming Wright on Clinton? Thank in advance

[Johnny__Motown]

30. Shortsightedness is thinking this would be over by Feb. 2nd

Wright was a Blip.

It is over now and still 6 weeks till PA votes

[backscatter712]

31. Why is Obama on trial again?

Obama didn't say anything wrong. His personal record is beyond reproach.

The worst the Hill-shills and the GOP swiftboating can come up with is something his minister said several years ago, and now they're Dean-screaming it non-stop on cable news and the rest of the GOP-controlled media.

Fucking pathetic.

[Beacool]

38. Don't you know? Even when Obama burps, it's Hillary who must say "excuse me".

Please, since when does a guy with (at the time) barely 2 years in the senate is considerd fit to be president? He wasn't vetted and the media loved the pony and cart routine that he represented. Only now are they opening their eyes to the reality that Obama is another Chicago politician, just one who is better packaged.

And for the record, this issue is not going away anytime soon.

[txaslftist]

44. Should she say "excuse me" for saying this?

"And I believe that at the same time that we have to make clear to the Iraqis that they have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give another human being – the gift of freedom. And it is up to them to decide how they will use that precious gift that has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice and treasure of the United States of America." - Hillary Rodham Clinton

[AGirl]

42. K and R

[grantcart]

46. If this is such a hate filled place why are you watching it every week?