BREAKING: Florida Governor announces they will NOT have a do over.

[ThatBozGuy]

Updated link:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/17/florida.primary.decision/index.html

Additional link added:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/17/florida-democrats-abandon-plan-for-mail-in-primary-re-do/

[NJSecularist]

1. Good news. Let's save that money for our ground game in the general election.

[ThatBozGuy]

9. Exactally, it would have resulted in a moot race......

The remainder of races will give direction to the convention. Systems do work themselves out of stasis and will in the short term.

[ThatBozGuy]

30. As an Obama supporter I believe the delgates should be seated as cast

There was a vote, the candidates were on the ballot, the outcome of Florida's vote will not change the outcome of the race.

[Texas Hill Country]

55. Thank you. You have singlehandedly restored my faith in reason.

[Kahuna]

57. Please. There will be fraud and mischief in the GE. There is no way

we can carry FL. So the exercise of kissing up to FL is a waste of time.

[TwilightGardener]

80. No--Obama had a much bigger hurdle in Florida, as he was/is much

less well-known than Hillary, with less Florida state-official support also. He didn't have a chance to let Florida see him in person, campaigning, etc.--just being on the ballot is not enough to overcome those disadvantages. Not fair, to seat them as is.

[jackson_dem]

102. He had 97% name id at the time and ran ads there, violating the rules on advertising

[MercutioATC]

81. If that happens, there will be no disincentive for breaking the rules...

...it'll be a free-for all next election.

[Diane R]

22. Totally agree. Florida had their chance...we can't afford to finance more campaigning there.

[pompano]

60. Uh..ho

If they split the delegates 50/50 Hillary and the Republicans are NOT going to like it.

Long Live The Queen!!!!

Here Here!

[Diane R]

66. Maybe Hillary's influence and effect ofstrong-arm tactics in the party are on the wane?

[Breeze54]

112. It isn't 'your' money. And you are cheering Fl. Rethugs usurping the Dem primary?

Who's fucking side are you on anyway?

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Seat the delegates and split them 50-50.

No do over and every delegate gets seated.

[ORDem]

4. Would've preferred a do-over, though. This puts a small cloud over the

nomination. And besides, }( , a do-over would've helped Obama a lot.

:dem:

[Captain Hilts]

7. Clinton and Obama didn't finish tied. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

12. There was no official election. Do that or don't seat them at all.

[Captain Hilts]

15. All candidates were on the ballot and a record turnout - nearly 2mil participated. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

20. So?

It was not an official election. You don't know how many more voters would have turned out had it been an official election. The fact Florida was only only a few states that saw a HIGHER voter turnout on the Republican side than the Democratic sign kinda tells me many Democrats sat home on election day. It was not an official election, much like the Washington primary that happened after the caucus.

[GoldieAZ49]

47. Wrong

Not the same as Washington at all.

There were other items on the ballot in Florida related to the state government. Those votes count.

[Captain Hilts]

59. ALL elections should have more people turn out. they had a record number. nt

[Diane R]

68. You are right; no one turned out for the Wash St. primary because we knew it didn't count.

[MonkeyFunk]

73. Yes, turnout might've been higher

but there's no reason to believe the delegate allocation would've changed. No candidate benefitted in the election. 1.7 million is a more than sufficient gauge of the public will.

[sudopod]

89. So the will of the voters counts

as long as they vote for Senator Clinton, but if they go for Senator Obama then only the superdelegates count.

Am I doin it rite?

[wileedog]

99. Intellectually dishonest.

You can't have an election, say it doesn't count, then turn around and say "oops, just kidding."

You have no idea what the turnout or results would have been were it official. You don't know what demographics decided to not vote in a useless election just for the sake of pulling a pointless lever.

Would Hillary still win a revote? Probably. But because the Dem system is partial delegates the "by how much" is a critical and important question, and why they simple can't seat what was voted. They need to know exact delegate counts for each. (I would probably be much more fine with it in a winner take all system, BTW)

[TheDoorbellRang]

43. they turned out for the housing amendment

as numerous Floridians have already pointed out. The primary that everyone knew wouldn't count just happened to be on the ballot, too.

I'm sure they don't want a re-vote. By the time they could have it, all the snowbirds would be gone for the summer, and this time the folks who are renters would have a reason to vote.

[Maribelle]

62. Incorrect.

All voters in Florida received sample ballots in the mail from their Supervisor of Elections, stressing that the primary election was important and that their votes would count.

And the tax payers of Florida paid for the ballots sent to each and every registered voter.

[TheDoorbellRang]

74. Maybe we need to poll Floridians on this, then

Here's another Florida resident's take on this:

Hi, Florida resident here, and homeowner. Why is this important? I'll tell ya.

Leading up to the Fl. election it was widely reported and known that the election for the Democratic nominee would NOT COUNT due to changes in the timing. Few whined, outside of blaming the state party for bumbling their way into this situation. But we all went about our business and came out to vote.

But not because we thought our votes would count for the nominee.

Instead we came out to vote in droves because of Amendment #1.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5112095

Are you saying there wasn't widespread dissemination of the fact that the Florida primary wouldn't count?

[Maribelle]

90. There was widespread dissemination in Florida that the primary would count.

On election eve Kerry and Obama were on the news blabbing about how the votes would not count in Florida.


This was in direct opposition to what practically every elected official, all the local news stations, all the newspapers, and the Florida Democratic Party had tried to impart to the voters. Here is an example:

September 23, 2007 - - FDP made the announcement that the January 29th elections WILL be binding! This means that every Floridian will have their vote counted.

January 24, 2008 - - All the Democratic presidential candidates still in the race will be on the ballot, according to the Florida Democratic Party, and state and Leon County party officials are encouraging Democrats to vote just as if their votes will count

January 27, 2008 - - “The votes will count and that’s the thing we keep trying to convince people of is the votes will count,” said Browning. “When we get through with that election, we will certify that election and then it will be up to the Democratic National Committee or the Republican National Committee to decide what to do with those votes.” If and when that happens, Florida’s election leaders vow to be ready. “What we want to do is—regardless of when the election is held—we want to conduct that election with the very highest standards, make sure we get accurate, right numbers and get it certified timely,” said Browning.

January 28, 2008 - - "I believe that it absolutely will happen," Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Karen Thurman said. "Our voices do count and we're going to be heard and we're going to vote."

January 29, 2008 - - Governor Crist: The Florida primary is a day for the people and the nation is waiting to hear what Floridians have to say.

[pompano]

72. There are....

snowbirds here year around.

The people that showed up to vote in record numbers were the voters drawn to the polls by property issues. The only fair way to count these ballots was for the DNC/Florida to say "If Hill. cries enough these votes may or may not count at a later date, so it would be a good idea to vote even if one has been promised the votes would not count"

We were assured the delegates wouldn't count, NOT suggested they MAY not!!!!

This makes it unfair anyway one looks at it.

Split them 50/50 or a re-do. Anything else is patently unfair.

[Maribelle]

91. You were assured the votes would not count from whom?

[Gore1FL]

97. Ickes vote to strip them of their delegates

start with him.

[KaptBunnyPants]

61. An election without campaigning?

You have some strange ideas about democracy.

[Maribelle]

92. Obama ran political ads that reached 6.5 million households in Florida.

[Maribelle]

37. The election was official. The State of Florida has said so.

The Official Results have been posted in the books for both Republicans and Democrats.


http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/DetailRpt.Asp?ELECTIONDATE=1/29/2008&RACE=PRE&PARTY=DEM&DIST=&GRP=&DATAMODE=

[BumRushDaShow]

58. The state of Florida has nothing to do with political parties. n/t

[Maribelle]

64. Wrong. The political parties have to follow the rules of The State of Florida.

And there is talk that a vaild case can be made by The State of Florida if the votes from their official election are not used properly according to the paper work the parties submitted to the State before the State allowed party candidates to be placed on the ballot.

Hopefully, the DNC will not allow it to get this far.

[Gore1FL]

98. So Hillary won an election with 0 delegates at stake

I'm sure they can find seats for a delegation of zero.

[Drunken Irishman]

100. It is not an official election by the DNC -- WHO make the rules.

[1776Forever]

Here are the offical vote totals from the Democratic Party -

Hillary Clinton gets a total of 38 delegates (14 PLEOs and 24 at-large) and 6 alternates.

Barrack Obama gets a total of 26 delegates (10 PLEOS and 16 at-large) and 4 alternates.

Even with the 12 delegate difference it still doesn't put her ahead. I say 50/50 and get it over with. They did not campaign and the baloney about Obama's add is stupid because it was only on cable and I saw it twice in a month. Hillary came down the day of the election so it was half of this and half of that.

Besides that here is the rest of the vote total for all candidates that were on the ballot:

Candidate
Votes Rec'd
% of Vote

Hillary Clinton
854,090
.497

Barrack Obama
567,357
.330

John Edwards
247,668
.144

Joseph Biden
15,372
.009

Bill Richardson
14,727
.009

Dennis Kucinich
9,507
.006

Christopher Dodd
5,379
.003

Mike Gravel
5,236
.003

So if we just had Hillary and Obama on the ticket I bet it would come out pretty much around the 50 / 50 mark.

[Maribelle]

65. It would only come out 50/50 in your mind's eye.

Floridans are perhaps more against Obama today than when he received 33%.

[whopis01]

115. very doubtful. A large number of Edwards' supporters have sided with Obama now. n/t

[redqueen]

10. That's the only fair solution, yep. (nt)

[Maribelle]

13. No 50-50 Obama did not earn them, why should he be allowed to steal delegates?

The 'will of the people' in Florida does not favor Obama.

[Diane R]

27. 'Steal delegate'? Hillary was the one who broke the agreement she signed.

[dsc]

33. That is categorically false

She obeyed every letter and word of that agreement the only party who broke it was Obama who ran ads after saying he wouldn't.

[Justyce]

52. ^Important point everyone seems to have forgotten. nt

[Maribelle]

69. Hillary broke no agreement.

Sorry, but you're appearing to be pretty desperate now with this false accusation.

[musicblind]

105. That is true. Hillary did not break an agreement. She abided fairly.

You can think they should or should not count, but to claim that Hillary broke rules is disingenuous.

[1776Forever]

87. Makes me sick how the HRC supporters try to make their own rules - Must be a Hillary thing!

I live in Florida and I was involved with the Democratic Party in our area and was going to be a delegate. I was told as all of us were that our vote would not count! A lot of people came out for the house tax issue and those that didn't own homes were not as represented. I think if we did have another election it would be closer. HRC might win a couple more then Obama but $5 million dollars would have to be spent to do it! There are loads of people who are losing their homes here every week! Enough! 50 /50 and seat the delegates I say!

[whopis01]

116. True - more voted against Obama than for him just as more voted against Clinton than for her. n/t

[TML]

17. The most sensible solution

I can only pray that Howard Dean agrees with that.

[krawhitham]

36. Dean might but Hillary will not

[Kukesa]

19. Just a minute, DI --

I'd like to wish you a very Happy St. Patrick's Day! I've got corned beef and cabbage cookin' in the crock pot and Irish soda bread, as well.

Hope you had a wonderful day!

:toast:

[Drunken Irishman]

24. Thanks Kukesa and you too!

We're having corned beef and cabbage and soda bread as well. With some ham for those who don't like corned beef.

Hopefully you don't party too hard tonight. :)

[krawhitham]

26. Not 50/50 but ...

half the delegates, split Edwards 50/50


57 HRC
36 BO

[mzmolly]

44. Good idea.

:hi:

[Orsino]

48. That gets 'em to the convention, but not pledged in the proportions that they would have been.

Better than nothing, I guess.

[StevieM]

83. The people didn't vote 50-50. And the people of Florida could care less about some random citizens

of their state attending some convention in Denver. They want to influence the process.

Steve

[GoldieAZ49]

3. all names were on the ticket

now it is up to the DNC

[Kittycat]

5. DNC already ruled.

Now it's up to the candidates.

[ThatBozGuy]

16. Actually, there is one more DNC step.

The credentials committee can make a ruling in August.

I believe it will be moot by that point and they will be seated and not impact the outcome.

[Maribelle]

6. Governor Crist just added a nail to the DNC coffin: RNC will seat half their delegates

And the Governor hopes cooler heads at the DNC will prevail at some point.

[Irishonly]

14. I Don't Think That Is New

I could be mistaken but I always thought the RNC was seating half of the delegates from the time they moved up the primary.

[Maribelle]

18. True. But Crist just emphasized it again, strongly, unequivocally against the DNC.

[Diane R]

31. And you did notice, didn't you, that he's a republican? Doesn't have OUR best interests at heart.

[Maribelle]

76. Crist has high favorable ratings with Democrats in Florida, for a reason.

Please pay attention.

[anigbrowl]

71. Um, the RNC always said they were going to seat half

They have different rules from the DNC. I fail to see how this is news. In fact, I've suggested several times that the DNC could do the same thing, or alternatively seat the delegates but strip Florida' superdelegates.

[Maribelle]

78. When the law was passed there was a rule in the 2008 DNC book that said 50%,

It was after the law was passed - not before - that the DNC met and used a clause about 'they had the right to impose other sanctions' to jack the 50% up to 100%.

[beachmom]

8. Does anyone know The Math? I think Obama will win even with FL delegates

seated from the beauty contest results.

[ingac70]

23. Yes, even with Florida, Obama is ahead. n/t

[ThatBozGuy]

41. That is correct, even with the delegates as cast, it doesn't change the outcome.....

and much as the same way a unanimous vote is often taken after the outcome has been decided Florida's delegates will be seated as moot.

[tridim]

11. Floriduh is so screwed up.

I'm glad there's not going to be a do-over, but still, why do Floridians put up with this crap over and over and over again?

[TML]

21. Well...

In general terms, they vote Republican and this doesn't pertain to them.

[tridim]

29. Gore won Florida in 2000.

So no, they don't "vote Republican" any more than they vote Democratic.

[TML]

94. Oh, geez

Let it go. That was 8 years ago.

[tridim]

95. No, I will NEVER let it go.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should ignore what happened in 2000?

[TML]

96. It's too late to change it

President Bush is wrapping up his second term. This should have been done seven years ago.

[musicblind]

108. I'm with you

I was 18 then. Just turned 18. It was my first election, and it got stolen. I wont let it go. I wont EVER let it go. I'll be bitching about that injustice to my grandchildren! And I should be, lest the people of America might forget...

[4_Legs_Good]

25. Any specifics on what will be done?

I don't see anything on cnn.com

David

[Johnny__Motown]

28. No New PRIMARY... does not rule out Caucus.. as far as I can tell

[ThatBozGuy]

34. This is a confirmation of a no Do Over of any type not just primary

The decision is to move on.

[Major Hogwash]

40. So, no more ifs, ands, or butts.

About it.

[Johnny__Motown]

46. Can you confirm that? not that it matters, details will come out soon enough

But the wording I see says PRIMARY.

[ThatBozGuy]

67. From the Florida state party Chairwoman

n an e-mail sent to Florida Democrats late Monday afternoon, state party Chairwoman Karen Thurman said, "We researched every potential alternative process -- from caucuses to county conventions to mail-in elections -- but no plan could come anywhere close to being viable in Florida."

[Johnny__Motown]

82. Got it, thanks.....

[democrattotheend]

32. I guess seating half is probably the best solution now

As an Obama supporter, I'd be fine with that. I don't think it will make the difference in his pledged delegate lead, unless things really go south for Obama between now and the end of the primaries, in which case the superdelegates would be hesitant (and rightly so) about giving him the nomination anyway. I work a block from the White House, and I want it to be an Obama White House by this time next year more than anything. But if he's been so damaged that he can't win the general, I don't want him to get the nomination. If he can't win the general I'd rather him get another chance later than go down now because people thought he just wasn't ready.

[Johnny__Motown]

50. Well, you seat them all but they only get 1/2 vote each. As long as FL SDs are only worth 1/2 also

I am OK with that as a solution




Not punishing the SDs from Florida would be a mistake. This screw up is (in part) their fault

[democrattotheend]

101. I think they should lose ALL the SD's

But I agree that they should seat all the delegates but give them half a vote each.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. Fudge the governor!

edit: more chocolatey

[margotb822]

38. And you know who those voters should be pissed at?

THEIR STATE LEGISLATORS!!! The DNC did not do anything but enforce the agreed upon rules. If the legislators knew they were coming up to a problem in the legislation (paper trail and primary date on same legislation), they should have worked out a solution with the DNC prior to voting on the legislation.

Also, the superdelegates should not be seated at the convention. If anyone should lose their say, it's the leadership who was complicit in this debacle!

[kennetha]

39. There will be an appeal to the Credentials Committee: Bank on it

There will be a donnybrook at the Convention -- especially if Hillary pulls to within under a hundred or so pledge delegates. A mere 50-60 pledge delegate lead will not give Obama a morally impregnable claim to the nomination. If Fl would bring it down to just a few delegates between then, there will be a huge battle over seating them.

[TAWS]

45. Too bad the person winning gets to select the people on the committee

[Johnny__Motown]

53. and Pelosi will be chair for the committee, we already know her opinion on this matter

[ThatBozGuy]

51. The committee will not over rule the DNC decision,The I s have been dotted, T s have been crossed

The credentials committee will follow the rules, Many have been concerned because a number of Ms Clinton's supporters make up the committee but it is a large committee and will absorb any stacking of the deck and support the previous decision.

Also keep in mind not to seat them was not the decision of one individual, although many believe Mr Dean made the decision it was a committee of which Mr Dean was simply the voice of delivery.

Florida's fate has been measured and the punitive failure of their legislator will stand.

[loveangelc]

42. why not just seat them? it wont change the outcome anyway.

[GoldieAZ49]

56. Right!

Both candidates will gain delegates Obama will still be in the lead and Florida will be happy and seated at the convention.

The party really does not the additional controversy and it needs Florida voters in November.

[loveangelc]

63. I think seating FL is the right thing to do. I'm doubtful that the Dems will win FL in Nov. though.

[BigDaddy44]

93. Because they broke the rules

Why is this so hard to understand? The State of Florida made the conscious decision to break the rules, even though they were warned what the consequences were.

So what happens in 2012 if you let these delegates get seated? The DNC will be totally toothless.

[musicblind]

113. No they were told the consequences were something DIFFERENT than what they were

and then those consequences were changed to losing 100% of their delegates. When they made the vote, and the date was moved the rule books said that they would lose 50%. Then the DNC changed the rules in the middle of the game to be 100% because Dean wanted to make a "statement" that has now backfired horribly and we are going to lose Florida, and Dean will be the one who lost it for us. I like Dean, still do, but he is human and he made a mistake here.

[Medusa]

49. So no more posts about how Obama or HRC are "ignoring the will of the people"

the state is ignoring the will of the people. So there.

[Stop Cornyn]

54. Does the Republican governor get to decide how the Democrats pick their nominee?

[kcdoug1]

70. MI and Fl delegates

this whole issue is a waste of time...The dem's in FL and MI need to step up to the plate and quit blaming the DNC and everybody else.. YOU elected the idiots who allowed this mess to happen.. YOU get rid of them. Fair elections cannot be held when the STATE leaders try to re-write the rules that everyone else agreed to...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. If They Don't Seat The Delegates As Is There Will ALWAYS Be An Asterisk Next To Obama's Name.

:yoiks:

[nsd]

77. Seat them according to the January result, but cut the delegation size in half. /nt

[sniffa]

79. That's a shame

Oh well, no Florida delegates.

[demo dutch]

84. I told DNC to stuff it with their fundraising emails. No Support from me until they count my vote!

[Umbram]

85. Misplaced anger. Get your state in order. (nt)

[demo dutch]

114. The FL Dem party are a bunch of losers! they can't get it together they keep

losing elections in FL, and so the show is run by the GOP. Not much I can do exept keep voting for Dem candidates eventhough they're a disaster except in my county home to Reps Wexler and Klein

[Skwmom]

86. Did Edwards win any delegates?

[jackson_dem]

103. Yes. 13

[finalnews]

88. Gloomy day for Democracy

The voters of the 4th largest state in the nation, population-wise, will have no say in the election of our candidate.

Sad.

[Eurobabe]

106. Bark at your elected officials, not us!

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

107. He ate a granite cookie.

:D

[Eurobabe]

109. Swampy, you keep me sane. LOL.

:hug:

[Swamp Rat]

110. I just finished that one.

:D

[RiverStone]

104. I heard not having any do-over or seating formula hurts the Dems in the GE???

I do believe the voters in FLA (and MI) were screwed by arrogant state party leaders ---but, someone told me not doing a damn thing in FLA hurts us in the GE, that is - if it does. Do you know why?

Thanks for the clarity.

[Breeze54]

111. Crist and the Florida rethugs caused all this and you all cheer them?

You're all fucked in the head.

I guess I really am at Freeperville. :puke: