How in the living fuck are two warring camps supposed to decide the fate of Florida's primary vote??

[Stinky The Clown]

There is just no way on earth either camp will do the right thing for altruistic reasons.

No

Fucking

Way

This could cost us the election. No matter the outcome, a large number of people will be pissed. And may do whatever, out of spite/anger/disgust.

(Context, for those who were napping with Mr. Van Winkle: The Florida Democratic party decided not to have a do-over and threw back to the national party the solution for what to do about Florida's delegates. Since no one listens to Howard Dean these days - especially the candidate camps - that means, effectively the two sides need to work out a solution. Hahahahahahaha ........... riiiiight.)

[flor de jasmim]

1. It's a long time until November - have some faith (or trust in your fellow Americans)

November is still EIGHT months away. Count back 8 months and you'll see what I mean... there is time to heal the party, if the nominee is chosen quickly.

[Selatius]

2. The Florida Dems in the legislature are to blame, not Obama or Hillary.

They knew full well the damn rules laid down by the DNC, and they fucked it up. If there is a re-vote, my only caveat is that the Florida legislators themselves should pay for the cost of a new election by deducting it from their annual salary directly. No more money from taxpayers for a do-over. They already paid for the first election; they shouldn't pay to clean up someone else's mess.

[Clovis Sangrail]

3. oooo I likey that idea /nt

[movonne]

4. What a good idea...thank you..

[Breeze54]

5. The FL Dem Legisatures are outnumbered by Rethugs!!

They were OUT VOTED on the change in the primary date BY the Rethug legislature!!!

[Selatius]

10. From what I heard, they collaborated with the Repubs to pass it.

Otherwise, I wonder how successful it would've been if the change in the law was filibustered.

[Kittycat]

13. From what I hear - they also refuse to support Dems running against Repubs threatening to overturn

their seats. Just sickening!

[Selatius]

14. Yeah, I read madfloridian's journal documenting it. Sickening machine politics at its worst. n/t

[Breeze54]

15. They didn't collaborate at all. -- Here, read this!

They were out voted by Crist and the Rethugs in Fl.

--------------------

How we got to this point

http://www.martincountydemocrats.org/2007/070828primary_vote.html

Most of the voters in the Presidential election never really have a say in choosing Presidential candidates. The political system in our country has evolved over time in a way that small states and a small percentage of the electorate chooses our presidential candidates.

This spring, the Republican legislature, along with the Governor decided that we in Florida were not getting the proper recognition in either the Republican or Democratic Presidential primaries. They felt (as many do) that the current primary system is outdated and antiquated. The current primary system allows the least populated and least diverse states (Iowa, New Hampshire and now Nevada and South Carolina) to pick the national candidates.

The Republican Florida legislators decided it was time for a change. The Republican House leadership sponsored a bill to move the primary date to January 29th knowing full well that was contrary to Republican rules. (They could lose half their convention delegates)

Jeremy Ring, a Democrat, sponsored a similar bill in the Senate. The process of designating a new primary date was started. It appears at some point a suggestion by the Democratic House Legislative committee was made that the Florida Democratic Party be consulted to confirm there was no problem with the January 29th date. Supposedly that contact was made and "no conflict" was the word from FDP.

Later in the process, Howard Dean and the Democratic National Rules Committee learned of the proposed bill. Dr. Dean called Democratic Representative Dan Geller, asking him to convince the Democrats to please vote against the bill. In response to his request, the House Democrats proposed an amendment be made to the bill moving the date back one week to February 5th. That amendment was sponsored by Democrats and rebuked by the Republicans. The Republicans wanted the bill passed. There is no way the the Democrats could have stopped them at this point.

Finally, the Republicans added the "verified voting machines" amendment to the bill which forced the Democrats to join in and vote for the legislation or risk being branded as "against a paper trail". In either case, amendments or not, this bill would have passed the House and Senate in Tallahassee if EVERY Democrat had ALWAYS voted against the bill. That's just simple arithmetic. Democrats don't have the votes.

So, now what?

As a penalty for our State Democratic Legislative Delegation in Tallahassee not being able to convince the Republican majority to rescind the chosen date, the National Democratic Rules Committee, with the consent of Chairman Dean, has decided to castigate the Florida Democratic Party by taking away our delegates to the national convention in Denver, August 25th, 2008.

However, not so fast Mr. Chairman. Karen Thurman and FDP officials have returned somewhat wounded but un-relenting from their first skirmish in Washington with the DNC and Dr. Dean. They have vowed to continue on in their quest for full representation in the coming Democratic Convention. They will continue to fight all the way to the floor of the convention if necessary. In addition, legal action between the warring parties has been suggested by Senator Bill Nelson which may force resolution to the problem.

The fact is this is an antiquated system for both parties, Democrats and Republicans alike, and it needs to be changed. Presidential elections are decided in California, Florida, New York, Ohio, Michigan and the populous states, not in Nebraska, Nevada, South Carolina, New Hampshire and Iowa, whose total votes couldn't overturn the decision by any ONE of the larger states. It's time to give the larger states their due by recognizing them in the primary. There are even better ideas whose points are illustrated in the attached links if you care to read on.

Will Dean's War on Florida Backfire?
Florida Dems Not Blinking in Primary Date Faceoff

[madfloridian]

17. Please stop the spin...Florida has hurt our party.

They were not victims. They were complicit every step of the way.

[madfloridian]

16. How do you get outvoted 115 to 1.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Nice thought but we both know it won't happen and the issue goes to the candidates to decide

Which brings us back to the OP.

[panader0]

6. The Florida Dem Party nixed the re-do

If the Floridians are pissed, they don't need to blame the Dems nationally, but locally.

[izzybeans]

7. It's a good thing the online supporters of these campaigns aren't deciding anything

that's for damn sure.

The candidates are mildly jabbing at one another, their supporters are screeching and confusing each other with the candidates.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. .

:rofl:

[izzybeans]

12. Well I guess you could be laughing at a number of things

but I come here and see screeching, even egg it on when it comes to obvious flamebaiters, but I really find the candidates rhetoric towards each other way more mild then I expected.

Now the Sampsons, Ferraro's, the handful of Obama supporters who are equally guilty of my next line, and the Hannity-pill swallowing clinton supporters on the other hand are slinging rotten vegetables and their own pooh at each other.

I'll admit to slinging some of it, but out of frustration for the ridiculousness in this place.

[Johnny__Motown]

11. Giving each delegate 1/2 a vote is still an option to be discussed at the Convention

[LisaL]

18. Yep. Democrats could write FL off in GE.

[housewolf]

19. I can't believe either Barack or Hillary truly wants to tear up the party

by taking this to a floor-fight at the convention.

The two of them could come to some sort of agreement about FL. It's looking like there's a deal close to being worked out in MI.

What's really questionable is that according to the math, it appears to be near-impossible for Hillary to win this thing by any "fair" way, yet she seems to think that she can still win. Soooo... what's her strategy? How is it that she continues to think that? What is she thinking? Does she know something that we don't know? Or does she have some sort of dirty trick up her sleeve? Unfortunately for us, we're only the observers.

I'm an optomist - I firmly believe that it is possible for two candidates to maintain a good personal relationship even in the midst of such a messy campaign as this. If that remains, it can be possible for something to be worked out.

But man.... this is a HARD campaign for all of us!