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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:39 PM
Original message
Would God "Damn" America?
If you are unable to look past inter-party partisanship, then please read no further and leave no comment. This is about more than politics, and if you can not see that, then you will only look ignorant in your response.

I used to be very proud of our country; the great United States of America. I love the pledge of allegiance, the star spangled banner, and everything I read growing up in History class pertaining to what our country was all about. Fortunately, then I grew up.

I came to the realization that I was not proud of our country. I was merely proud of what our country was "supposed" to be.

As it says on the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

As it turns out this country doesn't stand for any of those things any more. And quite frankly, if you look back at our history, it never really did.

We are a country if immigrants, yet throughout history have treated immigrants as vermin, and had no problem with them becoming sick huddled masses of homeless. We discriminated against the Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Jews, and now it is the Middle Easterners and the Latinos. We also turned our backs on the Haitian refugees, stopping them in the water and forcing them to turn back, despite knowing they would never make it.

How easily the citizens of this country forget where their ancestors originally came from.

The United States was in fact a country founded on the ideals of genocide, as nations of what we now call "Native Americans" were slaughtered in countless masses, and their land stolen from beneath their rotting corpses.

If that onslaught wasn't enough, we then began engaging in slavery by having what we now call "African Americans" stolen from their families and shipped from their native countries to our borders. We call them "African" Americans because we don't even know which countries they were stolen from; just the continent. Thirteen percent of our population can't track their family genealogy back more than three or four generations; at best. Many can't even go back more than two. The records were simply not kept. Of course, why would they want to keep records like that?

In World War II we turned our backs on the Jews, pretending that nothing was going on until 6 million of them were murdered by the Nazis. The guilt of our inaction has forced us to side with Israel as they attempt their own form of genocide on the Palestinians. And now, if you even dare make a dissenting statement about Israel and their current political actions, you are labeled anti-semitic.

During WWII we also became the first and only country to use an atomic bomb when we dropped it on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then, back here in the states we rounded up anyone of Japanese descent and put them in Japanese Internment camps.

To engage in the Viet Nam War we made it look like the Vietnamese attacked us first with the now infamous Golf of Tonkin LIE.

We also ignored the Rwandan crisis in the 1990's until it was too late. Of course, there was no oil there, so we were told that it wasn't really in our best interests to act.

We are now doing the same thing in Darfur; ignoring yet another genocide because it does not benefit our government to help.

The United States has also been responsible for millions of deaths of innocent civilians as a result of our involvement in regime changes.

Just look at our huge debacle in Iraq; the most recent example. This was not about "Fighting the Terrorists." It was about regime change and oil. As a result, we have lost nearly 4,000 of our own troops, with at least another 75,000 injured. Those are the small numbers. We are also responsible for 600,000 innocent dead Iraqis and millions more displaced in foreign countries.

We went to Iraq because "Saddam gassed his own people" with OUR gas after WE told Those people to rise up against him. When they did, we abandoned them and allowed Saddam to murder them. In his 30 some odd years of rule, he killed around 300,000 of his people. It took us 5 years to kill twice as many.

Now our government is proud to tell us that we engage in torture, as the Abu Gharaib scandal broke. Now we are fighting in congress to determine if it is acceptable to essentially "almost" drown someone.

The country in effect has now endorsed using terrorism; the very thing we are told that we are combating in the Middle East. And in the last seven years, that terrorism has be used against our own citizens in order to keep them in line.

At one point outing a CIA operative was grounds for treason; punishable by death. Now, it's just policy.

The list of this country's immoral crimes is endless, and I have really just touched on a few.

The point I am making is this. While Pastor Wright's comments were not pretty, and he definitely didn't sugar coat anything, they were still at the very heart of them true.

By our own admitted actions, God, regardless of who you think God is, would not bless the United States of America. He would in fact Damn this country. What has this country really done to deserve his blessing?

Now, I am sure many of you are wondering exactly what I am actually grateful for, since I have spent the last 3 hours writing about all the horrible things our country has done. Well, here it is.

I am most grateful of course for my family and the fact that I have the right to come on here and say everything I just did without worrying that someone is going to bust down my door and lock me away.

I am thankful for our constitution because in this document remains the truths of our forefathers. It is a guiding tool for our country and our leaders. It explains that all men are created equal, and as a nation we are to act accordingly.

They gave us a road-map to success and salvation. They left us with directions on how to become a great nation and how to appreciate how each person had something different and valuable to offer. This country is supposed to be the land of opportunity; free of oppression and tyranny.

Unfortunately, things didn't quite pan out that way. That is why it is our responsibility to change things. There is a reason George W. Bush was able to become president; to remind us of what we have lost, and how much more we could lose.

It is time to right the wrongs of this nation. And it starts with one.

One moment of compassion.
One act of kindness.
One great speech.
One great leader.

Who is that person? You are. I am. We can all be that person.

You want God to bless America? Help give him ONE reason to, because ONE is all it takes.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. God would damn America for allowing Abu Ghraib to happen
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. If there were a god, I'm pretty sure he would damn all the preachers
who purport to speak for God.

Fortunately for preachers, there is no such thing, which is why they have such a great racket going. Damn all of them.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. That is really not the issue here, and I think you know that.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. There Are One Hundred Eighty Or So Nations
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 09:43 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
By your calculus God would probably damn all of them...
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
49. This nation is supposed to be different.
We are not Russia, Germany, China, Japan, Britain or any other nation.

The United States was supposed to be better, and so it is to be held to a higher standard.

We are not living up to that standard, nor have we ever. Unfortunately, we seem to be getting worse at it with each generation.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #49
93. We were working to be better but now we've gone backwards.
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olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. God doesn't damn countries, he damns people.
Unless we're going into crazy-ass Sodom and Gomorrah comparisons.

Honestly, I'm more worried about unicorns crapping in my yard than I am about God damning America.
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Progressive_In_NC Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. The good news is, there must still be some good folks left around
When he couldn't find em in Sodom, well he burned the whole place down.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. On a serious note...
Yes, in the OT whole cites, whole groups of whole people, and even whole nations were damned. Oh, and one time, everybody was damned..... except for a few folks who got on a boat.

On a lighter note: Watch out for the unicorns. They're evil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. Cayenne pepper and mayonnaise. Mix 'em together in the blender,
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 10:42 PM by Old Crusoe
put 'em in a Super Squirter and ambush those frickin' unicorns mid-turd.

They won't be back to hassle you after that, I promise.

http://www.cdcg.org/pests.html



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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Would God "bless" America?
Personally, I find that statement at least as offensive, as it implies that America has gotten some kind of special permission to commit its atrocities.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. That is really not the point of it, and if that is all you took from it,
then I really feel sorry for you.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kudos!
You just brought me to tears, thank you for having the courage to speak out!

If I could give you a million recs I would!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Salvation and damnation are for individuals. Just like a corporation isn't a person, neither is a..
country. Thus no.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Did you read the post? No, I didn't think so.
Otherwise you would have seen the real question and not responded like that. I would suggest you read the post and actually see what I was trying to get across.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. What? He did answer the question or give an opinion.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I wasn't asking a question. I was making a point.
I would ask you to read past the title and spend the time reading the actual thread.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. Guess we are all missing your "point" since your post has
a question mark after it.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Why the sarcasm?
This is a real issue. I'm sorry if it's not an attack on Hillary, but maybe you could try to stick to the point of my post. Is it that hard?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. I tried but I fell asleep.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. I would think that a fellow Obama supporter would have a longer attention span.
This post does support a goal we both share.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't think there is a god, but, if there is an intelligent deity,
I doubt it would look kindly upon many of the actions taken in this country in relation to Bushco., Jim Crow, slavery, extermination of native Americans, pillage of resources, CIA overthrows, etc., etc.
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Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's an absurd question to an atheist
Whether God blesses or curses us makes no matter to me. But the idea sure gets everyone else's underwear bunched up in a knot.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You clearly didn't read the post.
It is about much more than that. Whether you believe there is a "god" as it says in the bible or not is irrelevant to the discussion. I used that as an example in light of what is going on in here and out there.

Please, read the post before you make a response. You sound very ignorant when you do that.
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Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. And you clearly have missed your one moment of compassion
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 10:05 PM by Generic Brad
Imagine that. Being damned by the God of this thread.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I can accept that.
Perhaps I was too coarse. But you did either miss my point or not read my thread.

You are right however, I did not need to snap at you.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. have you spent all 300 posts/week in the last 2 wks telling other people how and what to post? nt
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. This is a discussion forum... right?
How can you participate in a discussion forum if you don't know what the discussion is about?

I don't respond to people's threads until I actually read them. I find that if I just respond to the thread titles I sound rather ignorant... ignorant as in uninformed.

And so yes, when I spend a lot of time on one of these and someone apparantly ignores the text and give me an uninformed answer, yes, I ask them to please read what I actually said.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Then just leave if this forum does not satisfy your "intelligence".
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. You have a nice night. I'm done trying to reason with you.
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Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I read your post and find your judgement extremely insulting
I did not personally attack you nor do I have any care to. Adios.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. God isn't in the
nation damning business. He blesses individuals and he damns individuals. The idea that we are responsible for all the wrongs of the nation is an Old Testament idea. The people responsible for the wrongs are individually responsible.

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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Yes, that is correct, but are you responding the the thread title or what lies within?
It sounds to me like you just read the title, saw how long it was and assumed this was a religious thread.

I would encourage you to go back and read what I actually wrote. I spent several hours putting it together. The least you could do is spend several minutes reading it before you comment.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Crooks and liars aren't just American...
Our government leaders have "our power" and "oppress and murder" with it. It is called abuse of power. It is illegal but today our courts and media have been destoryed for a political agenda. They are all lawless.

The world powers such as the British,etc. are part of the deal. Their leaders are lawless and Empire building.

God is not any country but a spiritual being. To blame or use him for your own agenda is just plain blasphemy.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't believe in a God that damns anything.
I do believe in this:
"You are. I am. We can all be that person."


The changes I want begin within me. If they don't happen there, even if they happen everywhere else in the world, I'm going to miss them.

Thanks. K&R
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Thank you. You got it.
I appreciate you taking the time to read it through and see the point I was trying to make.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. you're welcome, don't forget to thank yourself for writing it
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. You're right...
Thank you, to me. Lol.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. He might if he heard a cut or two from Lee Greenwood's CDs.
Or a Pat Robertson tv sermon.

Or read a parenting tract by Jim Dobson.

Or caught the Maury Povich show some morning.

Americans have a long list of blessings, but not every single American got the memo.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. America has damned itself by the way it treats its citizens and those of other countries.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. Waiting for the flag to unfurl...
the chorus to come up from the flour singing Singing "GOD BLESS AMERICA" accompanied by the USMC Band. And the grand finale...a full display of fireworks.

America sure has a lot to be proud of, don't she? War over lies to steal Oil. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead. We now torture human beings and our inalienable rights are being ever so slowly eroded away. But hey...GOD BLESS AMERICA, whatever your god may be.




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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
31. Name one nation that has been consistently morally virtuous.
I don't absolve America of its faults, though I will never criticize the decision to drop the atomic bombs, but at the same time I don't believe this country to be more evil than any country.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. We're talking about America...
This is the only country I'm concerned with. I'm not comparing this country to another country regarding who can run up the score on who has the title of most atrocities. We are supposed to be better than that.

Remember Bush's one claim of evidentual excuse is that... Clinton did the same thing too. As if that was a good enough excuse for him to do it. Let's stop comparing and start fixing.
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Tribetime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. I haven't felt proud of this country
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 10:25 PM by Tribetime
for several years and the more I look at it, it's almost like I've been duped alot longer than that. I believed that we were always on the right side and other countries that didn't agree with us, must be wrong or evil. It took me over 40 years to see that corporations are more important to our government as a whole than are it's individuals and that the politicians all ending a speech with "God Bless America" is their way of keeping us duped into believeing they really have our best interest at heart are doing what is morally right. I do think that the right new President could change this around.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
60. Yes, but as I said... It does start with ONE...
And any of us can be that one.
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
33. We Want Divine Mercy, Not Justice
As a well-read and politically-aware person, I'm quite aware of the US's shortcomings. I'm also well aware of a lot of the sins of other countries and think that compared to many of them, with the exception of a Lichtenstein here, an Andorra there, a Bhutan over yonder, most of this unhappy world's governments have done more than enough to inspire the terrifying wrath of an angry Old Testament G*d.

I also find it interesting that those secular and religious politicos who like to invoke the image of a judging, angry Deity are usually the ones bewailing what they consider sexual immoralities while deliberately ignoring what the New and Old Testaments have to say about harboring the stranger and aiding the poor and ailing.

I believe that humanity as a whole falls well short of what G*d wants us to be. We don't want justice, or almost all of us would surely be damned. What we want(And NEED!) is mercy and lots of it!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. We would prefer to be the America of brave and principled action,
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 10:33 PM by Old Crusoe
and of heroic welcome to immigrants, and of the Founders' highest aspirations.

That is not to say we are not also, heart-breakingly so in fact, the America of slave ships and smallpox blankets and race riots and anti-intellectualism, and Abu Ghraib and death squads.

In a crisis, who do you want on your side -- Ronald Reagan or Robert LaFollette? Oliver North or Daniel Elsberg? William Kristol or Robert Bly? Kay Bailey Hutchison or Harriet Tubman? Bob Gates or Mario Cuomo? Anita Bryant or Janis Joplin?

There are many Americas. A fair assessment regards both the sunlight and the shadows, and learns how to navigate between the two to survive.






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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. Goddess Bless America
:patriot: I'd rather have a loving relationship with a female deity.

Gobama!
Go Dean's 50 State Strategy!
Go Grassroots!
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. Goddess Bless America
I'd rather have a loving relationship with a female deity. :patriot:


Gobama!
Go Dean's 50 State Strategy!
Go Grassroots!


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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
46. There is no gawd, it's a fairy tale and this country was not
"founded on genocide". :eyes:

Has America done bad things and caused damage since it's inception?

Yes.

Has America done good things and helped others since it's inception?

Yes.

Your OP is black and white and America is many shades of grey.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. What would you call it then?
The elimination of race of people is genocide. I hate to break it to you.

What would you call the murder of hundreds of thousands of native americans?

It is no different than what the Nazis did to the Jews.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. That isn't what America was 'founded' on.
Did it happen? Yes, but that isn't WHY America was founded.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. It is simply how it was founded.
They killed a bunch of people and stole their land.

You have another way to put it? It might sound nicer, but wouldn't be any more true. I don't believe in sugar coating it.

I'm going to get cavities if I have to hear any more sugary sweet tales of this countries valiant war efforts.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #56
88. I think you should re-read what the goal was and
who the perpetrators were of the really nasty stuff.

You are talking about WHAT happened, at different times.

The original goal was not genocide at all.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #88
94. No... It just happened when they couldn't get what they wanted.
Just a bi-product or democracy? Nice.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
50. I think you have a stronger case if you take 'God' out of the mix.
Human history doesn't usually acknowledge just one 'God.'

There are several, in fact. Several thousands.

Hard to pin down just which is which, and which is the more believeable, and which is the one who should be ranked above the others.

A fool's errand, really.

Best strategy: take 'God' -- no matter which one -- out of the formula and add it up in human terms.

Then the question takes on more depth and more contour, and more meaning.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. This was in part a response to "pastorgate"
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 12:33 AM by demdog78
It would be hard to take it out of that. I assumed people would get that, seeing has how there are still a ton of posts on here about it.

Apparantly I was wrong.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. "Pastorgate," no matter how you feel about it, weakens your argument, IMO.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. I did put in there "whoever you believe "god" to be"
to address your point actually.

Still, this was in response to the "God Damned America" comments. It is hard to take it out when you are responding to the statement itself.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Your OP reaches for farther and deeper considerations than any
one given pastor/rector/priest/preacher/etc.

It requires an anlyst with binocs and a longer ruler.

The Judeo-Christian (G)od is a relative newcomer to the scene. An interesting guy, but in the OT given to some nasty tempr-tantrums of the world-destroying variety. He lightens up a little bit here and there, and quite a bit in the NT, but by the Fourth Gospel is rendered into a Hallmark card.

IMO, your post is stronger without that reference. I understand what you are banking it off of, but it drains the argument of its voltage.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. I understand what you are saying, and quite honestly...
If I could still change the title I would. I was really just hoping that the people understand what I was getting at...

I mean, it's not like I'm preaching here. I think I used Wright in one paragraph.

I suppose I wasted it. Maybe I'll rewrite it some and repost it tomorrow with a different title in general discussion.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
53. Is the Westboro Baptist Church posting on DU now?
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. It's a response, in part, to pastorgate. Not really a religious post.
Could you please read it and then respond.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. I don't think you quite got it.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who honestly thinks--or even seriously entertains the notion--that the US as a nation deserves damnation from God is right there with Fred Phelps. JVS said it best, countries are human creations. So are governments.

Additionally, I didn't buy any slaves, murder any natives, drop any a-bombs, start any wars, etc. so I'm really not interested in either collective guilt nor list-building hand-wringing to the tune of, "why would God bless this mess."
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. The fact it though, that it did happen.
And the decendents of the people it happened to have every right to still be angry. We need to respect that.

I'm not saying God should damn this country or bless this country. Hell, I'm not saying there is a God. You believe whatever you want.

However, this is an angry country, and it is angry for a reason. The only way to get through that anger (and truly heal this country) it to acknowledge what happened; not pretend it never did.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
59. God don't like ugly
and we are the ugly Americans.

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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Especially if you ask the Iraqis
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. Which is why I've always considered Dolly Parton an angel.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. She just released her first new album in 17 years.
Backwoods Barbie.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Yes. And it is a humdinger.
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 12:46 AM by Old Crusoe
And dear lord what cover art does my eye behold!

I think she's done a lot of other CD releases, especially bluegrass, and won some serious awards for them in recent years.


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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. I grew up listening to her with my grandmother.
I used to love her movies. I took the song in The Best Little Whore House In Texas... the sidestep one with the govenor, and animated Dubya singing and dancing to it.

I haven't heard her album yet. I just read that it was out a couple days ago.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #72
75. She's always shockingly interesting, and it turns out her musical
instincts are top-drawer.

Dolly, Emmylou Harris and Neil Young -- that's not a typo -- do a tremendous job on "Light of the Stable," on Emmylou Harris' holiday album. I'm not always into holiday albums, mind you, but that one recording is worth alot. Murder anyone in your path between your house and the music store in your quest to acquire this recording.


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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Thanks, wrote it down.
You have a wonderful night.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #78
79.  _ _ _ _
:thumbsup:
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
66. An inspiring post
though I am more interested in individuals than nations, and god as well does not concern with nations, but individuals only. For those that believe. But the post is spot-on, in any case.

One is all it takes to make this nation a better nation, and every one does make a difference. For me, what is important? Read Naomi Klein and think about what differences need to be made. It is possible to have a materially good life under the vast majority of governments in the world today, but freedom is still a precious commodity, and one easily lost.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #66
73. Thank you for reading it all the way through.
You are one of the few on here that really understood what I was trying to get at.

I think I need to do a better job of getting my point across, and stop worrying about a title that grabs attention.

Those kind seem to grab me the wrong kind of attention.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #73
82. A title that grabs attention, even at DU, seems to be everything
The point can follow, as will those that read. I debate with myself whether the thousands of posts here actually can change minds, as motives would desire. Probably not, but there is some incremental progress towards a goal, or at least the maintenance of a dialog and a connectedness which is critical.

I suppose it depends upon what one thinks, at days end, of human nature - whether it is all worthwhile or not. I would say yes.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. I would like to think so.
I really just wanted to put up a thread that didn't pit Obama vs. Clinton.

I'm tired of fighting with people.
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Pablitoclavito Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
68. God is kind to all men
He wouldn't damn anyone.
Then again, he burnt Sodom and the other town, what's its name?
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. I picked really bad title... It really isn't about that.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
69. Already happened. Because He sent us the plague george w.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #69
76. ...o...m...g...
Yes, I mentioned that in there.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
71. ALL TOGETHER NOW! ---
God Damn America,
Land that I hate --
Stand beside her, to deride her --
Flip her off, and her flag, immolate!

From the dorm rooms,
To the ghettoes,
To our lattes -- white with foam!
God Damn America, my home damn home...
Obamamerica, my home damn home.

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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #71
77. I feel embarrassed for you.
That is not what this post is about, and I can tell you didn't read one word of it.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #77
81. I read it "enough" as the O-man might say. Your OP makes some valid points--
I'm just flabbergasted that Obamatrons can think that such defenses, or Obama's candidacy at this point, are sustainable in a general election setting. Let's put it this way: a lot of Americans COULD agree, I think, that the U.S. has done a lot of bad stuff over time (maybe some good stuff too.) But when it comes to electing their President, they wan't to feel sure that if any future squadrons of flying chickens start dive-bombing this country's roosts that their Commander-in-Chiefs' immediate and only impulse will be to reach for a shotgun to shoot them out of the sky, rather than to reach for those plastic orange airport-tarmac pointer-thingies to wave them in.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Unless you read the whole thing, then you didn't get the point.
Enough, at least with this post means all of it. The majority of my post are like that. I like to tie it up at the end. So if you don't read it in entirely, you don't get the whole point.

This wasn't a partisan piece.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #77
87. Stop telling everyone they didn't read your post
It was an absolute heap that did nothing more than list things we all already acknowledge. Then you made a bunch of vague, essentially meaningless (particularly in light of your admission that the post isn't about God at all and that you should've written it differently) proclamations that sound like you couldn't decide if you were writing an inspirational speech, a sermon or a funeral dirge.

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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
80. Excellent post. I agree 100%. Thanks! (nt)
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #80
85. Thank YOU for reading it.
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Pablitoclavito Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
86. Pat Robertson would tell you he damns blue states
lol.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
89. If by saying "God damn America"
helps in telling God how we feel about the recent wars then God would be saying there is hope for our world.
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
90. It was stupid for Barack to associate himself
with this person so closely for 20 years then lie about it.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #90
91. BOO!
:D



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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
92. Thank you for your empassioned post
From God's point of view countries are like lines on the map - they are important to us but he/she can't even see them.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
95. I hope that the Goddess will forgive the USA.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
96. If I understand religion at all...
and I'm not sure I do, then I think it likely that God would have damned America BC, but probably not AD. Either way, he wouldn't give America the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.
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