Oh and you GLBT people, you will get that great speech some other time,

[Neshanic]

You know like the one today that wrapped up all the things that needed to be said about racism and tolerance?

That one will be delayed say...couple of decades.

Everyone's happy and got what they wanted all explained and tied up in a neat package by our new President.

[LisaM]

1. Good point.

I was thinking we'd get the big women's rights speech some other time, too.

Thank you for posting that. You are so on target.

[niyad]

9. I was thinking the exact thing just now. thank you.

oh, I did hear him say the word gender yesterday.

[LostinVA]

2. Yeah -- I'm not holding my breath waiting for that speech

[Yes We Did]

169. Give me a break.

Not every thing has to be a LGBT issue. This wasn't about that, but hey... I suppose you have to find something to complain about.

Tell me, will you be upset with him when he gets rid of DOMA or don't ask don't tell?

He is the ONLY candidate proposing that. Maybe you should think about that.

[LostinVA]

181. Did I say everything has to be a GLBT issue? No

And, I don't think he'll get rid of DOMA or DADT. Hillary is for repealing DADT, and most of DOMA. I think she'll follow through on that. He's proven himself ready to throw GLBT Americans under the bus already.

[Yes We Did]

183. No, Hillary is not for the repeal of don't ask don't tell.

Only part of it. And Obama wants to get rid of them both entirely.

And as I recall the Clintons were the ones who through the LGBT community under the bus to begin with.

What makes you think that it would be any different this time? They had their chance and they lied to the LGBT and then forgot them.

How can you follow someone who had already intentionally failed you; especially when there is not a single mention of the LGBT on her website?

Obama lays out all his plans on his, and Hillary can't even give you a roll-over button?

[LostinVA]

187. Hillary IS for repealing ALL of DADT

She's not for repealing all of DOMA. At least get your laws straight.

Hillary is not Bill. She's not responsible for his votes. If you had any idea of the politics surrounding DOMA and DADT, you would understand they were an improvement. DADT is better than the policy the military had, and DOMA prevented a constitutional amendment against gay marriage. DOMA can be reversed much easier than an amendment.

I just love it when straights lecture me about what's best for my life.

[AndyA]

3. I think the GLBT community has already heard from Obama on this subject.

Barack let Donnie McClurkin do his speaking for him.

Gays just need to pray to be cured. That is all. No biggie.

:sarcasm:

[JoFerret]

167. Too right

Look for further religiosity.

[Yes We Did]

170. The same goes for you.

You have someone better who actually has a shot at winning?

Obama has the most LGBT friendly platforms of any candidate out there.

[AndyA]

235. Right.

How did your Pacific ocean front property purchase in Arizona go?

Obama INSULTED all gays with McClurkin. Many will not be voting for him because of that. If that's friendly, I guess you consider what we've done in Iraq to be friendly as well. :eyes:

[TankLV]

190. BINGO! The obamabots JUST DON'T GET IT....

we're still waiting for his APOLOGY for the REPEATED slights, BTW...

[Sulawesi]

4. wow, you are so sad...if something is constructive is done, it is bad if it was not done for you?

[cboy4]

13. And you're sad for not getting it. Why don't you go away?

:puke:

[Midlodemocrat]

16. Seconded.

:puke:

[Bluebear]

103. Thirded.

[LostinVA]

Fourthed

[Clintonista2]

188. Fifthed!

[Alexander]

85. I didn't realize you were king of all that is DU.

What gives you the right to tell someone to go away?

[cboy4]

178. No you heard wrong. I am only the prince of all that

is DU.

But I still get to chase away the trolls.

[RaleighNCDUer]

49. Now, now, don't deprive them of their hate.

Everybody needs a hobby.

[Sulawesi]

101. I get it, frustration, I share it...but the speech today was about race, and it was important.

[pnwmom]

110. I think the poster had a good point. Why should a speech that was so inclusive

leave out people who are excluded from the mainstream by virtue of being GLBT?

I'm not condemning Obama for this -- it was a fabulous speech, but it was just a single speech, based on a single issue -- racism. But I can understand why people who are GLBT would feel left out from the celebration -- as if they were invisible.

[Sulawesi]

112. If Obama were gay, and was being beaten over the head about it, the speech would have

been all about GLBT issues, but it was about race.

Look, I think BO should be more up front on say, gay marriage, like he was today about race. I have no problem if you think it detracts from him as a candidate, but the speech was fine.

[Bluebear]

129. But he wants to represent gays as their President.

So he needn't be beaten about it, many gays are beaten and killed for it. The fact that he chose to give this speech months after allowing another pastor to advertise that "God delivered me from homoesexuality" at an Obama event makes this speech sad to me.

[ldf]

158. obama needs every black vote

and i mean EVERY BLACK VOTE.

that is the only way he has made it this far.

but there is this "culture" thing called homophopbia, in the black community. it is quite acceptable. no matter how low you feel, you gotta be able to feel superior to someone.

so, he will not spit in the face of his lockstep voting block.

he may bob and weave all around it, but he won't put it into words without simultaneously explaining and excusing it away. today he disavowed the words, but not the man who spoke the words.

bob and weave.

:shrug:

[Yes We Did]

175. You have to be kidding right?

What about Iowa? Utah? Vermont? Wisconsin? Iowa?

Not to many black people in any of those states. You have made a truly ignorant argument, and also proven to be a complete racist.

[Sulawesi]

159. I am with you on the McClurkin thing, but not this speech...

[TankLV]

191. He could CARE LESS about gay people - he's already made that CLEAR...

and has already thrown us all under the buss to appeal to the BIGOTED BLACK HOMOPHOBIC crowd...

That's a FACT...

[Lilith Velkor]

234. Including the black gay people

who have friends and family that don't appreciate this shit at all.

[Yes We Did]

171. Still...

It wasn't about them. The real issue is that they are just upset Hillary supporters looking to find something to complain about.

Just about every one of them copmlaining about this are already Hillary supporters, despite the fact that Obama has a better platform for their issues.

[stevenleser]

193. I would have liked GLBT and Jews and Muslims too, but the speech was 40 min long as is...

I hope he will add the rest sometime soon...

[JoFerret]

163. So sad, so gay

How DARE gays expect equal treatment under the law. Or even recognition.

There is a politician who has made a stand - David Paterson - new governor of NY.

[knight_of_the_star]

165. Read up on Donnie McClurkin

Then get back to the thread.

[Yes We Did]

172. Please...

That just needs to die out. It's over, and no matter how much crying you do about it, it's not going to change anything.

Obama is still stronger on LGBT issues than Hillary. That is just a fact.

[knight_of_the_star]

174. Really?

Then why has he yet to condemn McClurkin's statements and homophobia?

[Yes We Did]

177. What world are you living in?

What more do you want? I have seen him take Donnie McClurkin to task over LGBT issues. He has said that it is wrong to "condemn" (to use your word) anyone for what the bible calls a sin.

You just want to keep it up. I'm sorry if he didn't use the words you asked him to do, but he has apologized, rejected and denounced everything McClurkin said. You are just impossible to please.

In addition, Obama is the only candidate who wants to get rid of DOMA and don't ask don't tell. So, quite honestly, you are cutting off your nose despite your face.

[TankLV]

197. No matter how HARD you try to spin it - you look like a FOOL for even TRYING to defend the

INDEFENSIBLE.

"wrong to condemn" - gotcha...

YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!

[knight_of_the_star]

212. Exactly!

If gay-bashing is ok for winning votes in the DEMOCRATIC nomination then I fear for myself and my fellow followers of the Pagan paths. Who knows, maybe the next big fad will be going after those who follow a different religion than the mainstream along with those who love one of the same sex as their own to score political points to get elected.

[TankLV]

192. BULLSHIT! Bill and Hillary are the best friends GBLT people have EVER had!

That's a FACT...

Obama can't wait to throw us under the bus - REPEATEDLY - to pander to the homophobic crowd...

it's INEXCUSABLE...

[joeybee12]

5. I hear it was a good speech, and it probably was, but this was the second

time hes been tested, and he failed once more...he lied about Canada-gate, and then he expects people to believe he NEVER heard ssome of the more controversial comments by Wright? From what I raed, the media is rally starting to doubt his honesty...they'll be waiting for the third strike.

[Sulawesi]

7. spinning like a top....

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. you didn't listen to his speech, but claim that he failed to deliver.

isn't that just a bit hypocritical?

[Neshanic]

53. Wow, you know what I read and listen to? He metioned HIV but that was

on the point of how good his pastor was with the programs he started.

[RaleighNCDUer]

72. Hey, this isn't FR. The thread is EASY to follow.

My reply was to #5, not to you.

This was not a speech on civil rights. It was on racism. He didn't mention gays because they are not the topic of discussion.

I would hope that he will directly address GLBT issues, and clear up the brouhaha about McGherkin. His record is as good, if not better, than Hillary's on gay rights, and he has declared his interest in overturning ALL of DOMA - not just half, as Hillary would like. He also wants to strike down DADT. If he has a hang-up on gay marriage, he's right in line with the other candidates - but he has said he would want a civil-unions bill to allow for full rights equivalent to marriage.

When he does give the GLBT speech, it will address all these issues; hopefully, as strongly as this speech addressed racism in today's America. Tactically speaking, however, he may not choose to do so until after he is elected, so as to keep the fundies from flocking to McCain as a result of his speech.

And no doubt, Hillary would employ the same tactics, should she be nominated.

[Neshanic]

75. Sorry.

[monmouth]

6. Racism and tolerance are pretty important matters...n/t

[Neshanic]

10. They very much are. It would of been HISTORIC if he mentioned women and GLBT just once.

But again...the safe side of the street.

[Midlodemocrat]

15. As a straight woman, I can tolerate very well not being the subject of

a 'tolerance and equality' speech. I cannot, however, tolerate throwing the GLBT community under the bus once again. At what point are we going to wake up and insist that our friends and family members have the exact same rights as the straight community? Today? Next week? Next year?

I'm beginning to think the answer is never. I find myself baying at the moon from the wrong side of the street and it makes me very, very angry. Not sad anymore, angry.

[Neshanic]

21. Thank you for that. It was the "grand tolerance" speech, but kinda...

stops just an inch short of making it truly what could of been the speech that all the Obama people claim it is.

The answer is not in my lifetime.

Thanks for writing that.

[Fresh_Start]

45. I hope you are wrong about 'not in my lifetime'

many people I know and care about deserve better

[ruiner4u]

117. thanks midlo...

youve always been cool in the lounge and always been someone with compassion and common sence out of the lounge...



just wanted to say thanks

[LostinVA]

182. Homophobe

[AGirl]

221. thank you from the bottom of my heart!

[Zookeeper]

95. Thank you! I waited and waited and waited...

for some acknowledgment of the still-relevant struggles of over half of the population. The best he could come up with was, "White women are concerned about the glass ceiling." And that was that.

I knew at that point that there was a snowball's chance in hell that he would include GLBT folks on his list of injured parties.

A good speech, but for someone who was emphasizing inclusiveness and diversity, those were large omissions.

[JerseygirlCT]

164. And doesn't that message of tolerance have meaning

even beyond race? Isn't the gist of it really much wider?

This cannot be made into an us and them thing. There's no winning that kind of argument - it's one where everyone loses.

[cboy4]

8. Yea, cuz we don't want that great speech to be used as

a wedge issue and cost Democrats the election.

[Neshanic]

11. That's us, big wedges. Boutique issues.

[GodlessBiker]

12. Forget speeches. Look at the candidates' positions on gay marriage.

Who are we to win with?

[Neshanic]

14. Quick look over there! Ben Affleck!

[msongs]

60. al gore and dennis kucinich support gay marriage - they don't pander for votes on this issue nt

[GodlessBiker]

106. Yes. Dennis would be a great nominee.

[QC]

120. Don't look at that! Look at this fluffy bunny!

[burythehatchet]

17. NOT ONCE did he even mention

the issue of Sikh separatists in Punjab.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Are the Shikhs in Punjab

Americans? Are they loyal Democratic voters?

And more importantly has Obama in the past allowed some surrogate to bash the Punjabi Sikhs by name and without apology?

[buff2]

18. BO won't be the President for ALL the people

that's for damn sure.

[JTFrog]

19. No. Just the Americans. n/t

[buff2]

24. LOL!

That's a joke.

[eissa]

20. He didn't mention the plight of Assyrians

and how they are on the brink of extinction thanks in large part to the war in Iraq. That's IT!! I'll never vote for him! He is DEAD to me!!!!!

[Forkboy]

23. If you look up real quick you'll see the point flying over head.

[leftynyc]

31. Please don't belittle the feelings

of our GLBT community. That doesn't speak well of you.

[KittyWampus]

64. The GLBT who buy into the bullshit OP belittle their own feelings/issues. Using an issue as a wedge

and to create division= counter productive and self destructive.

[Neshanic]

65. We GLBT are a pretty tough crowd. We have to be.

[KittyWampus]

73. your opening post has nothing to do with GLBT issues. It's fucked up, partisan garbage

congratulations on getting so many replies.

[Neshanic]

93. Sooner or later you will succeed in your quest.

[leftynyc]

71. Suit yourself

Good luck with that unity thing.

[KittyWampus]

76. lol! Unintentional humor alert!

[Malikshah]

131. issue as a wedge? You mean like race? Perish the thought.

Do you even see how hypocritical and selfish you are sounding right now?

No? Guess there IS a need for a GLBT speech.

[chascarrillo]

22. ... and that time was a month ago.

Obama have that great speech last month. Someone else will need to give you the link (sorry - I'm at work now), but he gave it, and it was resoundly praised both here and in the blogosphere. Sorry you missed it.

[Neshanic]

27. Oh, I remember, it was on all the networks. It was awaited like the second coming.

[chascarrillo]

108. Then you just nullified your original post. Thanks for acknowledging

... That Obama already gave the speech you asked for.

[Forkboy]

25. I'll be honest. I like very few of your posts...and this is one of them.

While I think either candidate will help GLBT people the real work will have to be done at the state level.

Or, you can all move to Mass. We'll leave a light on for ya! :)

[Neshanic]

33. Thank you, I am aquired taste and am on the best iggy lists.

Very selective iggy lists.

Thanks for that, either that or New Jersey.

[Forkboy]

Mass is cooler.

Of course, I'm a little biased on this. ;)

[last1standing]

26. So why doesn't Clinton give one?

You know the one where she talks about how vastly different her policies on GLBT are from Obama's. The one where she embraces equal marriage and denounces DOMA. :sarcasm:

Face it, neither candidate comes even close to what we need for GLBT rights but they're a damned site closer than McCain. We can only push them as much as possible and try to get a real progressive in office someday. LBJ was an outright racist but he passed the most sweeping civil rights legislation in the 20th century. It can be done, but only with strong pressure.

[Neshanic]

29. Hitler/Clinton. It's about what HE did today.

[last1standing]

36. Oh! I didn't know we had to confine this entirely to hating Obama.

I thought we could talk about how our rights are being shoved aside by BOTH candidates. Sorry, I didn't realize the focus of your hatred had to be so specific. I'll try to do better next time.

[Neshanic]

48. No, Clinton and Obama are the same in this issue as I have said a MILLION times.

The world was focused on his speech, his moment, his time, his way to bring it all together. So it's about him in this case. His speech.

[Poll_Blind]

28. What the shit?!?! n/t

PB

[Neshanic]

30. What the shit what?

[Poll_Blind]

38. You gotta be shitting me, "What the shit what?"! n/t

PB

[Neshanic]

44. No shit! Really what the shit what? Not shitting you.

[Poll_Blind]

47. Frankly, you're full of it. n/t

PB

[spoony]

210. I mean no disrespect but this is one of the funniest

subthread exchanges I've ever read :P

[Texas Hill Country]

32. Women will have to wait too I suppose...

[Neshanic]

35. Very much so. Come sit by us.

[Texas Hill Country]

125. gladly.

i have no personal issues with obama. i just think that he is not the saviour he is made out to be. a very good and intelligent politician and orator, most definitely.

i truly believe, for all her faults, that Clinton will be a better candidate and president, but Barak is definitely better than another Bush era Republican.

if this battle finally ends, I will vote for Barak. I just wish that sexism got some sort of mention... makes me sad for my daughters.

[CitizenRob]

39. OMG, this is a speech on RACE? Not every single possible minority groups issues.

He didn't mention LGBT. He didn't mention women. He didn't mention the handicap. He did mention .

This was a speech on RACE. As such it stayed focused on that topic.

[Neshanic]

42. Um...do you really want to show people this side of you?

[CitizenRob]

70. What, the side of me that respects focused topics in speeches?

I'm gay Neshanic. And while I listened for mention of gay issues, I wasn't exactly surprised that a speech on RACE didn't include LGBT issues. Or issues for the disabled. Or issues for women. Or issues for every minority group on the planet.

[niyad]

63. reminds me of the days after the civil war, when women were told they would have to wait

until slavery was settled before they could talk about getting the vote.

seems we always come last.

oh, wait, I forgot, there is NO sexism.

[CitizenRob]

34. I support Obama. I am gay though, and his seperate but equal stance on gay marriage bothers me.

But... it's not the only issue I am voting on.

[hulklogan]

37. Welcome to Obama's America, where equality matters for everyone...except GLBT people.

I'm sure the point of your OP will be completely lost here at Obama Underground, but it is an important one.

[Neshanic]

40. Sadly you are very correct.

[JerseygirlCT]

166. Where do you go from

him not specifically mentioning any GLBT issues today and him wanting to exclude GLBT people? I'm asking a serious question here. How is it that you make that jump?

I think the message at the heart of today's speech applies pretty well across the board, had we but the will to make it so. Diversity is a strength, but we are one people. Where does that idea exclude GLBT folk?

[TankLV]

198. Yep - unfortunately...

don't want to offend the black bigots...!

[donheld]

41. As a gay man, I don't need any speeches

I have his record.

[Neshanic]

43. Well me and some others do, thank you very much.

[buff2]

46. This proves Hillary will be a President for ALL

Americans. Not just based on race.

[donheld]

113. In your dreams

[jenmito]

51. He includes them all the time. He ALWAYS talks about how gay people are discriminated

against and used to divide the country, and how we shouldn't discriminate.

[Neshanic]

54. So begging the question. When will this be compiled into a speech on national television?

[jenmito]

67. It won't. He's not connected to McClurkin like he is to Wright. He always speaks out against

discrimination of gay people, even about how some people in churches discriminate and how it's WRONG to do so.

[Neshanic]

69. His support of us is in the shadows. That's where politicians keep it

every election cycle. Just enough to be out there to be seen if you look hard enough, but not enough to get a mention on any news shows, for good or bad.

That's the little game we play every election.

Don't tell us that's not the way he or Hillary are playing it. It's cheap. We know better.

[jenmito]

78. He doesn't "play games." He talks about gay people and discrimination all the time. Hillary

doesn't. He mentioned gay people in one of his great victory speeches, talking about how people pit rich against poor, black against white, straight against gay...

[LostinVA]

180. Hillary does speak about GLBT issues and marches in pride parades

She's been marching in pride parades for a long time, and she helped the gay community with her early AIDS work in Arkansas.

Let me know when Obama marches for gay rights, or apologizes for having an Ex Gay Clown campaign for him.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. But be honest now

He engaged in the tactic of using gay people as a wedge issue and has not taken responsibility for that action. He disciminates against gay people, and let me say that if he had listened with empathy and acted with courtesy during the McClurkin fiasco, he'd be on better ground when he tells others not to discriminate. He defended Donnie and scorned Wright.
There is a right thing for him to do and he has been asked for months to do so. I for one would be much less angst ridden if he would simply promise to not employ or allow any one to talk trash against any group of Americans under his banner, especially not as President. So far he's refused to say that. Asking a Democrat to promise not to let minorities be bad mouthed at his events and getting no reply, for he is busy telling others how to be righteous. It is just not right, and the sort of change Obama talks about is impossible if the man who wants to lead the change is himself not capable of apologizing for hate speech in his name and who refuses to reject the use of using any minority group as bait for bigots ever, at any time, by anyone, with or without a cross.

He, like Donnie, needs to focus on talking about their own flaws instead of everybody else's. Leaders lead by example. A man who owes amends calling on others to make amends is not exactly a paragon of honesty, and will have trouble with the 'do as I say, not as I do' approach.

[Utopian Leftist]

55. Ludicrous!

This is beyond ridiculous. You all know damn well that NONE of the Democratic candidates beyond Kucinich and Gravel would have been perfect for gays. And your precious Hillary has done nothing more than Barack.

In fact, I challenge you to find a SINGLE mention of LGBT issues on her website. I went looking for one and did not find it, though I easily found mention of us on Barack Obama's website.

Bottom line, he gave a speech about race and did not mention LGBT issues BECAUSE THAT IS A DIFFERENT SUBJECT! Where has Senator Clinton ever mentioned LGBT issues in any of her many rants about sexism?

[Bluenorthwest]

88. No offense

But the OP does not mention Hillary and my comment has nothing to do with Hillary. It is Obama we are talking about.
I really don't have a preference anymore, I never do at this point, all the Progressives are rejected and some party line candidate is delivered. Used to that. So my whole goal becomes the Party, and my issues. Don't have a candidate. I have policy I like and changes I'd like to see made. And call me crazy, but when a candidate claims we should all work to make the chage we want to see, and clearly the man understands strong speech and the fight for justice, why would I or anyone think we should somehow back down on a issue, or play nice with the tactics? First round was McClurkina and Caldwell. That set the bar for the level of discussion, as always, the rules were made by the rich man in power, not by me. But face it, it Obama really wants people to be a movement, well, GLBT politics IS mmovement politics and it is right here to see, and it is criticized at every turn for doing exactly what your candidate asks all Americans to do. Obama says take action, the time is now, we are what we have waited for...so why do you think those who seek equal play are on the other side? Why do you think there are sides? Got to be able to talk about Obama, and gay people of course reserve the right to have whatever the fuck opinions and styles we wish. So, I'd say that out of all the various Democratic Party voter blocks, the only ones now coming anywhere near what Obama calls on his supporters to do are gay Americans demanding equal protection under the law. Your candidate and Rev Wright and people like me and maybe even the OP understand that for the government to act in favor of new rights or extending rights, its hand must be forced by public opinion. Obama knows, although his ardents miss the point, that no President will be able to deliver without a tide of public support. I kind of think he's calling for just the sort of activism gay people are best at, actually, and if he's not, well then he's of no value, for his talk of change coming from the people is just talk. If he means it, this is what it will look like. Not a prep rally, but a constant gentle pressure upon all leaders to improve and expand.
You want love poems, stay out of poliltics and for God's sake do not call for activism. If Obama wanted fan letters, he'd be an actor. So we are talking about a politician who says it was MLK not LBJ and I agree. So why would he seek to silence anyone seeking justice? Why would his supporters? Have they really heard his message?

[Neshanic]

92. Nice. Excellent post.

[Bluenorthwest]

97. Thanx

[xchrom]

56. recommend

[Neshanic]

58. Thanks

[scheming daemons]

57. "What about ME?!?!? Why didn't he talk about ME?!?!?" .... pathetic....

Obama didn't address EVERY SINGLE grievance in America, so let's bash on him.



I shudder to think what your reaction would have been to MLK's "I Have a Dream..." speech...

[Neshanic]

59. Don't you have that backwards? As an Obama supporter I mean?

[CitizenRob]

74. Neshanic your OP really is a "WHAT ABOUT ME?!?" on something not related to you.

This speech was on the topic of Race, it was a focused speech and didn't veer from that focus. Not including every possible minority group in it is what keeps it focused.

[Neshanic]

83. Wow, I though he meant all of us. Guess I was wrong...

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign – to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together – unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction – towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

Stupid me.

[CitizenRob]

126. Yes, stupid you. You're defining your ENTIRE self as gay, in which case this speech wasn't about u.

[LisaM]

99. That's entirely different. MLK's speech was focussed on one particular movement

whereas Obama is, theoretically, talking about unity.

His campaign has managed to focus us so much on race that (IMO) issues like GBLT and women's issues are getting marginalized. I believe that this is on purpose. He knows full well that Hillary can't make a speech on women's issues now, and there is no one running right now who is going to go up and make the speech about GBLT rights. He has effectively cornered the market with his issue.

You may admire that as a means of running an effective campaign, but it does not mesh with my ideas of a unified country. I don't like this "gotcha" mentality. It is isolating.

If he corners airtime and keeps all the media on edge with a promise of a big speech on gay rights - and then delivers - I would be surprised, but would admire him for it. And I don't mean a line in a speech. I mean an "I worked two whole nights on it!" and heavily promoted speech like this one was.

For the record, I am straight. But I have many gay friends, and they are about the best of the lot as far as the people I know.

[LostinVA]

185. Good post

[plantwomyn]

107. OMFG

If I see an Obama speech compared to MLK's "I Have a Dream" again I'm gonna SCREAM!

[LostinVA]

231. Can I join that club?

However, it WAS a Checkers speech posing as an MLK speech.

It WAS a good speech, but it wasn't Dr. King.

[plantwomyn]

238. Instead of reading from his book .

He should have read from this speech

I Have a Dream - MLK

"But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. They have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone."

Now that's LEADERSHIP!

I agree with you "Checkers" analogy, so what do you think about this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5139332&mesg_id=5139784

[VotesForWomen]

62. the O-folks don't think discrimination other anti-black discrimination either exists or matters. nt

[CitizenRob]

80. WRONG. I'm gay, and very aware of how I'm discriminated against. Get off your high horse.

[KittyWampus]

82. actually, it's a few fucked up DU'ers who use the GLBT issue as a wedge. Not just Rightwingers do so

as evidence by this thread and your post.

[Neshanic]

91. You are determined to make yourself look very bad.

[Liberal Veteran]

136. As a gay person, I agree....

...with cryingshame on this one. Certainly the Clintons have hung around with and stumped with a few people who are less than sympathetic to our cause for equality as gay Americans, but when push has come to shove, the Clintons always folded on us when the going got tough. If something was fairly easy they are right their at your side, but the moment the heat turns up, they back down.

It's one of the main reasons we got DADT and DOMA.

[TankLV]

201. Guess we'd better sit down and shut up, huh? Sorry, we're not going away...

And we're going to continue to SHOVE THE TRUTH IN YOUR FUCKING FACES until you "get it"!

DEAL WITH IT!

[TankLV]

199. BINGO! He just doesn't CARE about it...we're supposed to "get over it"...

[Recursion]

66. So give one

Go for it. I'll listen.

[Neshanic]

68. I'm not running for office remember? Or asking that my dreams be yours.

[Major Hogwash]

79. Are you going to vote for McCain?

Like he gives a damn!

[cboy4]

84. Major Hogwash, one of our brightest civil rights fighters

has arrived! :sarcasm:

You like using that, "yea, he's going to be terrible, but who else are you going to vote for?" argument a lot, don't you Major Hogwash?

[Bluebear]

100. He's a real hero for civil rights, ain't he?

Gets me right here. (Pointing.)

[geek tragedy]

77. Yes, his great speech on race relations is evidence of homophobia.

Morons.

[totodeinhere]

81. He addressed his speech to all Americans.

That would certainly include GLBT's.

[Neshanic]

89. One would think seeing this from the speech..

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign – to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together – unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction – towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

[greguganus]

86. Hail to the new Chief baby! n/t

[Mezzo]

87. Nah, he'll just share a stage with a homophobe and denounce it later.

with hope.

and ponies.

[Neecy]

90. gee, thanks!

Whenever I see a topic that starts with "you GLBT people" I know I'm about to be lectured by a straight person on what and how to think.

Piss off.

[kwenu]

94. Wow! GLBT baiting. That's ugly and desperate. Trying to divide won't help Hillary now.

Nothing will.

[CitizenRob]

96. I'm voting for Obama DESPITE his seperate but equal stance on gay marriage.

However, I don't blame any gay person who would not vote for him in the Primaries based on that issue.

[Bluebear]

102. Who "baited" GLBTs to begin with? Reverend McClurkin.

[kwenu]

118. No. Bill Clinton when he signed the Defense of Marriage Act!!!!!

[Bluebear]

119. "God delivered me from homosexuality!" - MC at an Obama event.

Disgraceful.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kwenu]

148. More disgraceful than a law that strips GLBT's of their civil rights! I don't think so.

GLBT support of the Clintons in light of DOMA is difficult to logically justify.

[IndianaJones]

98. its not as cool yet for us straight people to pretend like we care about GLBT issues. nt.

[VotesForWomen]

224. correct. nt

[beachmom]

104. He admonished the black community in a black church in Atlanta for intolerance of gays.

It is clear that many gay people have been determined to knock Obama while ignoring the Clinton's consistent betrayal of gays over the years.

Obama's speech today was about RACE, not sexual orientation or even, for the most part, religion.

[Bluebear]

105. Yes, those horrible, bad gays have been "determined to knock Obama".

Obama pandering for votes with McClurkin had nothing to do with it.

PS, Hillary Clinton has at least marched with GLBT's, when is Obama going to show up?

[hulklogan]

109. Us gays just want to ruin anything that straights enjoy

you know, like Obama, marriage, SUVs and adoption. Next thing you know, we'll be responsible for the plummeting ratings of every show on CBS.

[Midlodemocrat]

122. Well, I, for one, think you guys are responsible for global warming.

:sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

186. Al Gore hates gays

[QC]

116. Damn ungrateful pansies!

Those sodomites just don't know who's looking out for them!

[Liberal Veteran]

128. When is Hillary going to stand up in a church and repudiate homophobia?

When is she going to apologize for her husband signing DOMA?

[Bluebear]

130. When will Obama march with GLBT's?

[Liberal Veteran]

132. Symbolic gestures do nothing for me. I DON'T MARCH IN GAY PRIDE PARADES.

Am I a homophobe?

[Bluebear]

138. Whatever, as usual.

[Liberal Veteran]

142. I see, so you don't apply the same standard to members of the gay community...

...that you do to Obama?

Hillary (she of whom most like argued against DOMA....behind the scenes, of course :eyes: ) is a saint for walking down a street, while Obama makes a couple of speeches denouncing homophobia, but because he didn't walk down the street, he a bigot.

I have good reason to distrust the Clintons when it comes gay rights. They turned over the moment the right wing got a little butch with them on the issue of gay equality instead of taking a principled stand.

Obama supports a repeal of DOMA. Hillary has stated as her policy position that she wants to leave it up to the states.

And you want to lecture me about pandering?

[kwenu]

149. Dead on point. Great post!!!!!

:applause:

[Bluebear]

dupe

[Bluebear]

151. I'm not lecturing you on anything. I didn't vote for Obama or Clinton this year.

on edit: now that I read on that I am living down to stereotypes and self-centered and that you say that I am lying about the fact that an apology would have cleared the air for me, I am ending our correspondence on DU. Have a wonderful life.

[kwenu]

173. Maybe you could help us understand how GLBT 's can support the Clintons after they gave you DOMA?

I am going to continue to press this until a GLBT person explains this unbelievable contradiction in basic common sense. It's absolute disrespect for your own civil rights and why you instead want to talk about a confused homosexual singing at an Obama event as if that's actually significant.

[Bluebear]

195. The confused homosexual did not "sing". He emceed & gave a half hour anti-gay sermon

This has been discussed many times. Again, this is not about the Clintons, this is about Obama's panderings.

[kwenu]

237. Exactly. The question is why is it NOT about the CLINTONS!!!

I'm more than happy to change the facts as you understand them to "...a confused homosexual emceed and gave a half-hour anti-gay sermon." Why is that more relevant to the GLBT community as a rallying cry rather than a LAW that strips you of your civil rights. BTW, I suspect you are playing fast and loose with your interpretation of the facts because I doubt anybody showing up to an Obama rally is going to listen to anyone for 30-minutes other than Obama himself. And then to say they listened to a 30-minute anti-gay sermon is even more unbelievable.

Is the TRUE answer in fact that some elites got wined and dined in the GLBT community and they in turn told you what you were supposed to think without question??? If that is the case, it is a monumental disaster in credibility for the GLBT community.

[plantwomyn]

239. And Obama will leave it up to the states TOO!

Read Obama's HRC questionnaire

"If I was President, however, I would oppose ANY effort to stifle a states ability to decide this question on it's own."

...Translation...
A PARTIAL REPEAL OF DOMA!
...The first article of DOMA...
No state need recognize a marriage between persons of the same sex, even if the marriage was concluded or recognized in another state.

Which is the same fucking thing Clinton is saying.

Jeez-O-Fucking pete!
Come on People!

[FedoraLV]

111. He gave it

"Americans are yearning for leadership that can empower us to reach for what we
know is possible. I believe that we can achieve the goal of full equality for the millions
of LGBT people in this country. To do that, we need leadership that can appeal to the
best parts of the human spirit. Join with me, and I will provide that leadership. Together,
we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike."
<http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/jcitron/gGBKRf>

"This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign – to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together – unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction – towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren."
<http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGBbrc>

Try paying attention. ;)

-FedoraLV

[hulklogan]

114. Your first link isn't a speech, and the second link has nothing to do with GLBT Americans

In fact, the second link does not include the words "gay" "lesbian" "GLBT" or "straight" even.

;)

[FedoraLV]

242. Wait, I'm not an American? ;)

I'm now a citizen of Gaylandia, a separate nation? :P

(Oh dear, I should have read those papers that came with membership card far more carefully....)

:) My larger point was, listen to what Obama has said, overall, on LBGT issues (and everything else) instead of stabbing yourself repeatedly with a single, small wedge issue and bewailing the pain it causes you. Do not let the sentiment of "Wait, but it's *my* turn for *my* issues on the national stage" talk you out of supporting a candidate who will help all of America ... no matter what subgroup(s) they belong to.

(Go listen to his St. Patrick's day speak to an Irish booster league if you don't think Obama can speak successfully to audiences with focused interests and concerns.)

In listening to "A More Perfect Union" I didn't need high-signs to my little group to know I was being spoken to. In our community we have our own angry older generation, we have our own young people who see the world very differently, we have a majority that sometimes resents and fears us for misplaced reasons, and we have all felt (like a certain young Kenyan-Kansan Hawaiian) that we were born into a world without a place or a category for us: unless we made one for ourselves.

He's offered us an opportunity to take a look at just how we do this, and at just how we go about being Americans. I welcome that. He has challenged us, he has changed local politics (and he will do it again across this nation as other Democratic candidates are elected in his wake). Even if he can do nothing for our community during his time in office, he has put forward a model where giving an ally of our community a lot of power then requiring certain legislative and policy changes of them, as obligations, is *not* the only way to change things in this world.

A lot of minority communities still cling to that model -- "Who is one of us? Oh, they aren't? Well, how good are they on our issues? Oh. What strings can we pull to make them more compliant with our hot button issues?" I know this is a natural response to, well, being a minority -- but folks, there's other ways of going about it. I'm going with the classic argument that we are all, all of us, entitled to equal regard and equal rights, that our fortunes are tied in with our neighbors', and that getting too strident about how we've been wronged and need recompense *now* will not commend us to the very majority that we would like to be on better terms with.

Obama is a very interesting lesson on how to handle ourselves in the world, how to look at more than just our own group's issues and problems, and how to find solutions that in a genuine and non-calculating way benefit the most people in the best way. (Look at how he persuaded the police to accept videotaped interrogations: he did not use the traditional arguments about African Americans and the corrections system.) Let us learn from what he is teaching us and let us listen for more carefully to what he is saying.

It will only benefit all of us.

-FedoraLV

[ZombieHorde]

115. We had that candidate.

We had a candidate that championed gay civil rights, single payer health care, ending the Iraq war, promoting a sustainable environment, attacking unethical corporations, ending the war on drugs...


But nobody would vote for him because nobody would vote for him.

[tachyon]

123. I just keep reminding myself - Obama will never be president.

Sorry, folks.

[question everything]

124. And Muslims

From the transcript

"Just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed."

No, I did not go seeking these. I was listening to him live and this omission really caught my ear.

Or will offering a hand to Muslims voters is too risky?

[JoFerret]

127. Fair point. LGBTQ's need to be delivered first.

.

[Political Heretic]

143. Why?

Why "first?"

[WinkyDink]

133. Obama spoke to HIS OWN life experiences.

[Bluebear]

139. May he find empathy in some other people's experiences at some point.

"I was wrong to include Rev. McClurkin at one of my events." That is *ALL* it would take.

[JerseygirlCT]

168. Yes, and also managed to use those experiences to

see a country where we can all come together. I just don't see how that's *exclusive* of any group.

[Straight Shooter]

134. This was a "Get my ass out of the sling" speech.

Of course the words were crafted to tug on heartstrings -- "America, this land that I love," Jesus on a pogo stick could he be any more transparent -- but basically that's all it was, a gamble to save his ass. Kind of like one big wishful roll of the dice trying to regain your losses at the betting table.

[kevinmc]

135. Maybe Hillary Clinton will give one? .... n/t

[Liberal Veteran]

137. MY GOD! He also left out the genocide of the Native Americans and the Salem Witch trials!

He's a monster!

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

140. "I was wrong to include Rev. McClurkin at one of my events." is all it would take,not even a speech

[Liberal Veteran]

145. You'll forgive me if I doubt that.

The people who just can't stop babbling about McClurkin wouldn't be happy no matter what Obama said or did. If he waved a magic wand and made homophobia disappear, some people will hold onto anger and hurt feelings like a security blanket.

[NJSecularist]

141. When will Hillary write a speech about the LGBT community?

Nobody has forgotten about her husband throwing gays under the bus in 2004. And, of course, 1996.

[Political Heretic]

144. Oh and women, and poor people, and people suffering religious discrimination / violence...and....

...yeah there are a lot of deserving oppressed populations out there. Shall we rank them in order of importance? Shall we mock an eloquent speech on the subject of race prompted in response to specific events? How dare we ever have a specific discussion of race when there are other problems in our country too, right?

:eyes:

-PH, former LGBTQ organizer

[Liberal Veteran]

146. Yeppers. The gay community often gets stereotyped as being narcissistic.....

....it's a damn shame when members of our community live down to that stereotype by demanding that the universe revolve around them.

[plantwomyn]

240. We don't have to rank them in order of importance.

Obama has already done so. We didn't make his short list.

[Swamp Rat]

147. Good point.

I'd like to see him challenged with this directly.

:kick:

[Liberal Veteran]

150. I'm sorry, it's a lousy point.....not a good point.

At best it's a self-centered point.

He has stood up in black church and condemned homophobia in the black community.

There are any number of groups he could have mentioned that have been the victims of discrimination, but his speech was about RACE and for the most part he stayed on topic.

Bush tries to give those long, tortured speeches that include anything and everything and we mock him for rambling.

But we mock our own for staying on point?

[Swamp Rat]

152. In your opinion. The OP feels left out of the speech, so I responded with empathy.

"At best it's a self-centered point." - He's only human.

I wanted to hear Obama say something about Native Americans, which would have been on-topic, considering it was about race.

[Bluebear]

153. What a graphic!!!

[TheDonkey]

157. Actually Obama did talk about native american children!

Just saw him say it on a clip playing during KO. Rewatch the speech, I have yet to see the entire thing to see if there are more instances but do not start throwing bombs if you are unsure as well.

[Swamp Rat]

160. He did not address Manifest Destiny, which was appropriate for this speech.

I saw it the first time, but it was not enough, imo.

[okasha]

161. No, he didn't.

He mentioned Native American children in passing, among a list of ethnic/social groups who receive substandard education. Just as he mentioned LGBT's in passing when he supposedly called out African American homophobia in an African-American church.

And maybe I'm biased, but I'd say the genocide of the original inhabitants of Turtle Island was the U. S.' "original sin"--a genocide in which African American soldiers participated.

[TheDonkey]

154. Yes, count on Hillary to give it.... NOT

who are you supporting.... hmmm let me guess....

[Liberal Veteran]

156. Well, she MIGHT do it, assuming she is confident she will suffer no political fallout for doing so.

The Clintons talk a good game, but throw us under the bus the moment the going gets a little rough for them.

I won't go so far as to say they are lacking in sympathy with the cause of equality for gays and lesbians, but they certainly care more about themselves than anyone else.

[plantwomyn]

241. Do you not get that the OP is about OBAMA"S SPEECH!

This isn't about Hillary Clinton.
Are you unable to post a reply without implying that unless Hillary Clinton does something, we have not right to opine on Obama?

[tekisui]

155. I hope I live long enough to vote for the First Gay President.

I hope it happens sooner, rather than later. It is a healing we desperately need.

[Utopian Leftist]

162. Homophobic Hillary

I'm still waiting for a Hillary supporter to explain to me how they can argue that she supports LGBT people more than Barack WHEN WE ARE MENTIONED NOWHERE ON HER WEBSITE AND WE HAVE OUR OWN SPECIAL TAB ON HIS??? We don't merit even a passing mention? Our cause is not worthy enough? She would perhaps prefer that we remain silent and unacknowledged?

Anyone???

Bueller???

[cboy4]

179. Oh I can answer that. It's there because he panders for

votes from gay folk, even though he allows homophobes to perform at campaign fund raisers.

Try not to be so naive Utopian Leftist.

[JackBeck]

176. Where did Obama say that today was the day the conversation ended?

His speech, in fact, was a call to once again try to invigorate Americans into having this national conversation, since we have had many opportunities over the last few decades to talk about racial inequalities, yet failed to rise to the occasion.

Nothing was "tied up in a neat package" today. If anything, we just started taking off the wrapping paper, and have yet to look at what is inside.

[bicentennial_baby]

196. ...

:applause:

:hug:

[JackBeck]

207. The OP and I must have listened to or read different speeches.

Nothing was ended or wrapped up today. I saw it and invitation, if anything.

[backscatter712]

184. Obama's not perfect, but he is on our side.

Yeah. He should have handled the McClurkin controversy a little better.

That said, he is a good man. He does care about GLBT issues and civil rights.

He's on our side.

[ecstatic]

189. I'm almost positive that speech is coming

The speech he delivered today was loaded with language that will take Americans a while to process.

When the time comes to give the GLBT speech, who do you want to deliver it? A unifier... Barack Obama!

[WillyT]

194. Question: How Come We Weren't Given The Opportunity To Vote For A Gay Presidential Candidate ???

Was there a gay candidate on the dais that I'm not aware of ???

:shrug:

[Firespirit]

200. If he did give a 35 minute speech on homophobia, you wouldn't appreciate it

The DU response:

1. How hypocritical of him to talk about homophobia after McClurkin! He showed his real colors when he shared that stage! This is a lie!

2. It's just a speech. So what? The voice in my head tells me he'll herd us off to camps.

3. He's only saying it because he fears us! He fears that we won't vote!

4. LGBT people who support him are idiots, swayed by words, and traitors to the movement.

5. He said "god." When do the atheists get a speech?


And I'm bi.

[Bluebear]

202. Baloney. "I made a mistake including McClurkin at my event" is all it would take.

Not a 35 minute speech. But as someone from his campaign said after the anti-gay concert, "we got what we needed out of it."

[LostinVA]

204. I thought you were asexual

[QC]

205. Well, maybe not on purpose, lol. n/t

[Firespirit]

209. Why, aren't you smrt.

"Ha ha loser can't get laid."

Grow up.

[Firespirit]

208. You need to research the topic

Bi-romantic and asexual are completely compatible.

[Utopian Leftist]

211. LOL!

You're right, Firespirit, that's what they'd say.

McClurkin, what a tired grudge to still be holding! Hillary shares the stage with Bill all the time. Bill of DOMA. Bill of DADT. And Obama should apologize for sharing the stage once with some idiot singer? Get over yourselves.

[AGirl]

203. Homophobia/Transphobia is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now,"

[IndianaJones]

206. to quote an Obama supporter: sense when do gays run the democrat party? nt.

[cboy4]

220. lmao. Sense when?

!!!

[Neshanic]

213. Meanwhile...

A parade of pastors all supporting Obama on the televsion. That's great. It truly is wonderfull. They speak of tolerance, inclusion, social justice, equal rights, past sins. The Obama supporters and the head nodding interviewers talk about why this speech was made. How historical this speech was, comparisons to the end of divisiveness in our new Century.

The more they talk about inclusion and the righting of wrongs, forgiveness and acceptance, non-hate and love, how does that not stick in your throat on saying that this is a unification speech? Everyone is forgiven, everyone is on board, but us.

And we will never be invited on board, because this is an issue basted in religion. Religion trumps all. That line cannot be crossed to bring up GLBT. That would be too much. But the conversations continue unabated on the television that this is about all of us, all our dreams, all our fears and how this is the balm that was needed to heal us.

It was a speech to cover his ass. It was a great speech. It WOULD of been a historically important speech if he was truly the progressive leader with courage.

[JackBeck]

214. We've already been "invited on board".

Our fight for equality has already transcended the lines of race, with many prominent African American civil rights leaders speaking out. Your post and subsequent comments negatively contribue to the conversation that continues to beat a wedge deeper between our communities, when ultimately we share so much in common. Hopefully after you read these statements, your rhetoric will be tuned down a bit:


"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people,"

-Coretta Scot King

"I want to apologise to you and to all those who we in the church have persecuted.

"I'm sorry that we have been part of the persecution of a particular group.

"For me that is quite un-Christ like and, for that reason, it is unacceptable.

"Maybe even as a retired Archbishop I probably have, to some extent, a kind of authority, but apart from anything let me say for myself and anyone who might want to align themselves with me, I'm sorry.

"I'm sorry for the hurt, for the rejection, for the anguish that we have caused to such as yourselves."

-Desmond Tutu

[Neshanic]

215. No we have not. Not this time. Please do not use quotes from giants to support

a timid well written plea to get himself out of a situation of his own making.

[JackBeck]

216. "And we will never be invited on board, because this is an issue basted in religion."

"Religion trumps all. That line cannot be crossed to bring up GLBT."

Your post starts out by trotting out religious figures who are all in agreement.

And then you drop this big bomb in your post.

We have been invited and the line has been crossed by numerous religious figures from communities of color.

Today's speech was monumental, because not only do we have the opportunity to talk about race and move forward, once we do, it's a guarantee that LGBT rights will be next.

[Neshanic]

217. He is defending his pastors words. He nor anyone in his predicament

would bring up any of the words that would include GLBT directly or in code. None of the religious figures supporting him would dare touch it either.

Unity for all, except....

[JackBeck]

218. His "unity for all"

was a direct call for everyone to take an honest look at the Constitution and examine the "stain" that slavery left imprinted on that document.

And that's what needs to be addressed. We need to have this conversation, in order to move forward, and address other issues.

[AGirl]

219. ain't that the fucking true..

he would never apologize for the ex-gay performer, no he would never go that far for the GLBT people like he did with Wright because he doesnt HAVE that connection with glbt people, and it seems like he didn't CARE to. Maybe he should make a speech about his hidden bias against GLBT people.

[Utopian Leftist]

222. Maybe.

Maybe Hillary should stop being so afraid of us and mention us on her website like Obama mentions us on his. WHY MUST SHE IGNORE US???

[JackBeck]

223. Do you possess any awareness

of how tough it is for many communities to access social services on a daily basis, regardless of how the LGBT community fits into the equation?

[JackBeck]

225. Obama is not defending his pastor's words. n/t

[kdpeters]

228. That pastor supports marriage equality, my friend. How's Hillary on that issue?

You are being bigoted and stereotyping Obama's pastor and you know nothing. And then you presume to go wagging your finger around at everyone else? Just stop now before your behavior gets any uglier.

[kdpeters]

226. Grow the fuck UP!! That WAS our speech today. That speech belonged to every American

There was no point to this but to create division where there was none. Don't let your support of Hillary turn you bitter and hateful -- not any moreso than has already happened.

[cboy4]

229. You're calling the OP bitter and hateful?

:spray:

[Bluebear]

232. 'Grow the fuck UP!!' - how HOPEFUL and UNIFYING!

[Jamastiene]

227. Is Bush still around?

Wow, Obama is already the new president according to many. Yeah, I'd say more like 40 years, we'll get a speech about ending bigotry toward gay people...not a moment earlier either. He still hasn't given us one word to explain McClurkin. Then again, we already know the world to explain McClurkin. He must condone that.

[mattclearing]

230. Sad to say, that's a whole nother stop on our way to that more perfect union.

But you have to admit...either Dem would be an advocate of gays and gay rights. People are scared of anti-gay voters, but with a second term comes the ability to advocate without fear.

That day will come sooner as long as we have a Dem in the White House. A Republican president ensures that gays are treated as though they don't exist.

[hulklogan]

233. With a second term comes lame duck status and the inability to advance any agenda

No matter who gets elected in November, GLBT people will be treated like we don't exist. It will be lots of words and "wait until after the election / after we have a majority / after the first hockey game in hell" and crumbs thrown our way.

I have no faith that either Senator Obama or Senator Clinton will end DADT. I forsee a 15-year experiment with "Celibate Gays in the Military" with either Senator as president.

[mattclearing]

236. Really?

I'd imagine don't ask don't tell is probably about done by now...I honestly don't think the military gives a shit anymore, especially now that they're actually getting shot at.