America has skinned my fathers alive, raped my mothers.. but I'm not

[RethugAssKicker]

suppose to speak of it... My fathers had to look at the ground..IN FRONT OF ME !..when talking to white people...... But if we speak of it, it must be said in a pleasant voice!... When will America stop denying its horrible past, and speak honestly about race and stop the bullshit double standard ?

[DesertFlower]

1. now is the time. nt

[SunDrop23]

2. Good post (n/t)

[K Gardner]

3. For all its ugly and brutal truth, I give this a K&R. Most are ready to have this

dialogue. Some are not, and will continue to use the distraction of Wright, or cast aspersions at Barack Obama rather than face it.

I stand with those who want to move forward, to a better place for all of us.

[Swamp Rat]

4. !

[K Gardner]

6. I absolutely love that picture. That is as it should be.

[depakid]

14. There is actually one in the making

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Where is it located?

[thereismore]

22. The Crazy Horse monument, SD. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. Thanks :^)

[K Gardner]

29. Yes.. one of my dreams is to go see that.. :-)

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. One of your most beautiful pieces! *hugs*

[watrwefitinfor]

8. You've done it again, Swampy.

That is a classic.

[OhioBlue]

13. wow! I love that pic! n/t

[silverweb]

20. Beautiful.

Thank you.

[RC]

28. Our countries Fathers.

There are two countries represented here. Theirs, which has been paved over by ours.

[burythehatchet]

43. I had an epiphany when I first read Chief Seattle's words

How useful that wisdom would be today.

[kikiek]

55. Isn't that the truth.

[kikiek]

57. I recall the horror I felt when I first learned not only had we taken back their sacred land

given to them by treaty, but we carved the heads of our Presidents there. Still feel so ashamed.

[CitizenLeft]

68. Swamp Rat...

you are awesome.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Too many people think "It was a long time ago, it wasn't me" and shrug it all off.

[kikiek]

9. Native Americans came to my mind immediately when I read that post.

And no one in the country seems to care.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

16. Talk about "ethnic cleansing". How many Americans know about the "Trail of Tears"

or about Andrew Jackson's "Indian Removal Act", that OKed forcible transporation of every Native American to anywhere west of the Mississippi?

[kikiek]

24. Isn't it heartbreaking. It tears me up.

[K Gardner]

33. After I studied the TRUE history of the Native American, read

Trail of Tears, Bury my Heart, In the Spirit of Crazy Horse and about 100 other books, and spent a year visiting reservations from one end of the country to the other, I took an assignment and worked 4 mos for Indian Health Services on the Navaho Reservation. We don't educate people enough, not nearly enough, about this - the other ongoing shame - of white america. Once immersed in these people, their history and their legacy.. it is a lifelong devotion.

[kikiek]

39. Well I can't tell you how much I appreciate what you're doing. You have my respect.

[RethugAssKicker]

49. Can you believe this?... I've only met on "Indian" in my whole life

[kikiek]

38. Last summer I went to an estate sale. You wouldn't believe the collection of Native American books

there. I bought Trail of Tears, Bury My Heart, and many many others. They are so difficult to read because it is painful to acknowledge this is history and it really happened. Like Winona LaDuke's "Last Woman Standing". If you haven't read it I highly recommend it.

[RethugAssKicker]

19. They are just mascots now... The extinction of the N. American

Indian was a textbook success of how to exterminate a race of people...

The majority of N. Americans left are a defeated, hopeless people.... Thus, now the media can portray them in a different light.. as they are no longer a threat.. .. Thats the key.. THEY ARE NO LONGER A THREAT !!!...

So, now when we watch Westerns, no longer are they savages.. we show them as environmentally conscious people, and people who were unfortunately victimized.
But, the truly complete story still is not known.

WE AMERICANS are in major denial of our past.. especially now with the racist, neocon government we currently have.

[kikiek]

26. This is something that has to be addressed in the next administration. We need to work

together. The treaties are still being broken.

[mikekohr]

27. It's A 500 Year Resistance, We haven't won yet!

I would not use the word "defeated," and certainly not "hopeless." I am reminded of an old Johnny Cash song with the line, "In our losing we won honor, in your winning you won shame."

mike kohr

[RethugAssKicker]

32. Maybe for the South American Indians.. but the N. American

Indians seem to have been completely destroyed.. If I'm wrong please educate me !

[mikekohr]

37. 4,448,000 Enrolled Native People and 15,000,000 Others

with various degrees of Native Blood would remind you that they have survived. Unscathed? Not exactly. There have been consequences.

My wife and I maintain a website dedicated to the memory of Severt Young Bear Sr, named "International Brotherhood Days," http://www.brotherhooddays.com Stop by for a visit my friend.

Respectfully,
mike kohr

[kikiek]

45. Great link. Bookmarked. Thanks. We all need to learn what has gone on and what is still.

[RethugAssKicker]

54. Thanks.. I will read and learn more.

[kikiek]

41. I live in MN and I think you're right. Red Lake has high poverty rates if not the highest in the

state. Other one that comes to mind is Rosebud SD.

[mikekohr]

64. I believe 7 of the 10 poorest counties in the US are on Indian Reservations

Pine Ridge Reservation, SD (Shannon County) has been the poorest county in the US over the last 40 years. In the last census it rose to 4th poorest, not because it did appreciably better but because neighboring reservations, Standing Rock, Cheyenne River, slipped even further.

As a long-time supporter of Senator Obama and as one who has decried the sometimes un-civil discourse between the supporters of Senator Obama and Senator Clinton I am heartened to engage in this exchange with you kikiek. In the end we are all family here.

mike kohr
International Brotherhood Days
http://www.brotherhooddays.com

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. I knew the daughters of slaves growing up.

I'm only in my 50s. Recommended Post.

[Withywindle]

21. When did the last living American slave die?

Would you believe - 1979?

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=291903


I'm a relative young'un, but his lifespan overlapped mine by 10 years.


No, not so long ago at all. I wish my country as a whole had more in-the-bone awareness of how important and still-with-us history is.

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. It wasn't rare growing up in the south if you had

Black friends.

I took MLK's words to heart early in my life
"judging a man by the content of his character," my mother
who was white took me to see that speech.

[corkhead]

11. NOVEMBER 4TH

[knixphan]

12. the most honest answer is probably

'one at a time'.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. I was there when kind of shit was happening in the south and spook up and out about it as a child

and got my ass kick a lot for it.....I didn't care and I am sorry for the evil that whites folks did.


in the 50's I used to get kicked of the city buses in Miami for getting up and giving my seat to an exhausted women who had worked all day in rich white folks homes. I used to get beat up for by neighborhood kids for bringing Jimmy to my house to play with me while his mother worked in the Florida heat at the dry cleaners on the corner and Jimmy had to sit outside all day alone. I use to see horrible shit. I learned at a very young age to question whether a God really existed because if he did then he certainly fucked up by creating or allowing this shit in his creation.

written by a personal friend of mine Phil Dray



.

[RethugAssKicker]

23. God.. It was awful... but it is truly amazing though.. that Black

Americans don't really hate whites. They just want the shit to fuckin STOP

[Kahuna]

30. Exactly!! I don't hate white people. I have a lot of white blood in me..

What kind of fool do I look like hating on myself?

[RethugAssKicker]

35. Even if you didn't have white blood in you.... hate only

breeds more hate and eventually destroys your soul and your mind..

[mikekohr]

17. "The History of America is Longer, More Beautiful and More Terrible Than Anyone Has Written Of."

Those are the words of historian James Baldwin. And they are true. Reminds me of my favorite passage in the Bible: John 8:32 "The truth shall make you free."

mike kohr

[knixphan]

31. It shall.

[StevieM]

34. I agree. Now speaking of double standards....let's acknlowledge and bring and end to

the sexist media's lynching of our fine former first lady. And Obama's advisors, David Axelrond and Susan Rice, who led the fight to inject race into the campaign, following New Hampshire, should be forced to resign. By mis-applying the charge of racism they re-victimized all those who have fallen victim to it for real in our nation's history.

Steve

[RethugAssKicker]

36. Yes.. but is just desperate political tactics...

[Not the Only One]

40. This is why old white people will be very turned off by this speech

It's like going to these people and wanting to talk to them about their drinking problem. They don't want to talk about it. At all. It's at the very bottom of the list of things they want to talk about.

It's good for the country, but not good politics since old white people vote very regularly and represent a big chunk of the voting population. They wanted Obama to tell them that Rev. Wright was a racist and a nut and totally throw him under the bus. Now, they view him just like Wright and just like the "boogeymen" Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton-- angry, scary black men.

I stopped caring whether Obama can win in November, because having him be on the ballot is the right thing to do regardless. You do the right thing even if some people hate you for it.

[RethugAssKicker]

56. If they hear the speech.. not the MSM soundbites.. Old white

people will not be turned off... unfortunately they probably don;t know how to get to YouTube !!!!

[NDambi]

42. I had a great uncle hanged in the late 30's for apparently looking at a white woman..

and there tons of others stories to tell..from my Irish great grandfather who defied his family and society to marry my black great grandmother! They were run out of the south eventually and landed in all places, Gettysburg, Pa to raise their family.

Boy, do I have stories, but I was raised to believe in forward thinking, education and making it better. We had a horrible past, but we can have a glorious future.

We may not have a perfect union..and you know the rest Obama said it today!!!

[question everything]

44. Of course you are supposed to speak about it

but don't refer to your political campaign as transcending race.

Don't go after Ferraro for saying the truth, that Obama has galvanized the black voters because he is black, and many whites who feel guilty about the horrors that this country inflicted on blacks.

You cannot have it both ways. Either his campaign is about "our time has come" or it is not.

[RethugAssKicker]

47. Did Alan Keyes have success.. He is black .. Did Sharpton have

sucess. He is black. Did Jackson have success? He is black.

Ferraro said he is successful, because his is black!.. Utter bullshit !

[question everything]

71. He is a success because he started by transcending the race issue

by, of course, being a bi-racial - remember when some African Americans claimed that he was not "black enough?" And, indeed, in his speech he presented Michelle as a true daughter of the civil rights movement.

When his advance team first went to SC, many there did not know that he was black and the campaign worker had to use his laptop to show people a photo of Obama. And many started accepting him after they realized that Michelle, at least, has a darker skin. (These are not my observations, of course, but from news stories).

But when Oprah started talking about "our turn" "our" means black, not poor, or people who lost their jobs; when blacks in Southerns states vote for him because he is "ours," when Eugene Robinson claims that "MLK is ours," when Jesse Jackson likes Edwards poverty plan but would not endorse him because he was going with the black candidate, was waiting to hear of Obama's plans to attack poverty - you know that that "transcendence" was long left behind.

[DLnyc]

67. Just curious, did you listen to Barack's speech today?

He actually defended Ferraro, by saying
===
Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.
===

I'm not sure how you like to spin this, but I thought he made clear that he rejected the argument that Ferraro is a racist.

I find it sad that you seem to miss that Barack Obama, more than anyone else I've seen in public life, has time and again managed to pull the discourse AWAY from the back and forth of racial accusations and guilt-tripping that are so common in our national 'dialog', not toward it.

But I'm just some idiot, so what do I know?

[question everything]

72. I certainly heard him and I thought it was a very good speech

and it showed, as well as the whole "explosion" of the Wright talks show that race relations are still volatile and hurting and that just running on "hope" and on "change" - without explaining what these terms mean, exactly, is not going to resolve them. At least, not with such platitudes.

[TK421]

46. I still wear the scalp from my great, great, great grand-daddy that some in-jun

took off his head! YEAH HAHHHHHH


But seriously, my ancestors came from very poor backgrounds and had it tough when they got here from Ireland and England....so what exactly do I owe anyone? An apology?

[RethugAssKicker]

48. scalping started with the American white man.. It is a myth

that is was an Indian thing !!!...Whites used it as evidence .. to get paid !

[TK421]

50. I KNOW this!

I forgot to use the sarcasm tag....

[RethugAssKicker]

52. No..but an acknowledgement of Jim Crows devastating effect

on the black man.. and don't expect in 30 years for that to go away.... Especially since the Republican partys mentality has taken over the mainstream thinking..

[WinkyDink]

53. LINK to article that scalping WAS of Native-American origin:

"Scalping, of course, predated the mid-eighteenth century. Historical records, archaeology, and other sciences strongly indicate the practice originated among certain Native American tribes."
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/1998/scalping.html

I always thought it was the French, in the French and Indian War.

[TK421]

62. I thought I read somewhere that the settlers started it first, and the Native

Americans started doing it right back in protest....

[mikekohr]

69. It was a common practice among both Native and European People.

The taking of body parts from an enemy is a shared practice by Peoples and cultures from all over the world. If you talk with enough veterans, and gain their trust, you will learn that the practice continues to this day. The scalp taken from Chief BigFoot (Spotted Elk), by soldiers of the 7th Calvary in the aftermath of the massacre at Wounded Knee in 1890 was kept over the protests of Spotted Elk's family until the year 2000. They grudgingly returned the trophy after decades of fighting the murdered leader's family over possession of the scalp. http://www.brotherhooddays.com/woundedknee.html

The scrotum of White Antelope, murdered at the massacre at Sand Creek, was cut off and made into a candy pouch which was still being used by a Colorado State Senator as recently as the 1980's. http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#COLONEL%20JOHN%20MILTON%20CHIVINGTON (scroll down to John Milton Chivington)

When crowds at sporting events engage in "the Tomahawk Chop," or when people ignorant of history link this practice to Native People and exclude it from others, particularly their own ancestors, it perpetuates the denigration of Native People and Native culture.

mike kohr
International Brotherhood Days
http://www.brotherhooddays.com

[Catherina]

51. I won't shut up. Most of America is ready to deal with this

It's time. Time to deal with it and time to start healing.

[GoldieAZ49]

58. What do you want America, Americans to do? We all have ancestors that have suffered

indignities. The people that perpetuated those deeds are dead.

It is a part of our history, we all know that.

So what now?

[NDambi]

59. Move forward with postive thinking, fairness and working together.

[Ka hrnt]

60. Exactly. EOM.

[Auntie Bush]

63. I thought this was a race to see who best could help with

Democratic issues like health care, the deficit, the economy, getting out of Iraq etc? I'm sick of bush* et al and his religious talk. Now we have our Dem candidate doing it even more so. Why are we dragging up race issues now? I'll tell you why...this was Obama's plan all along. That's why they claimed the Clintons were racist. They needed to get the black vote and this was a perfect way to do it. Notice how everything anyone said about Obama was accused of racism. They WANTED and PLANNED his campaign to be be divisive along racial lines. Frankly, I've wondered if he didn't have that fabulous speech all written way ahead of time knowing the Wright speeches would become public and the sh** would hit the fan.
I wonder if we've been had by a very cleaver politician?

[RethugAssKicker]

65. Absolute wrong thinking.... Think more clearly

[ellacott]

74. This is so sad to read

There is not a shred of truth or wisdom in this post but this poster has convinced themselves that it's true.

Obama knows that he can't win this race by dividing the races. I have no words for this type of thinking.

Knowing how most people feel about blacks and knowing how these buried feeling will be exposed, why would he do this.

I wish we would think.

[styersc]

66. Bummer 'bout your folks.

[Orsino]

70. Shut up 'n' polish that flag lapel.

This is the land of the free. Actual retail price subject to change without notice.

[glowing]

73. Yeah.. My inlaws really understand your pain.. they originally lost their entire

existance.

[MethuenProgressive]

75. I'm 3/4 Penobscot, my wife's dad is from the Dominican, w/ kids darker than most of their friends...

And yet I get called a racist by Whites here all the time.
DU isn't America. Thank God.