Ok. My boss asked me a question

[quakerboy]

He is an Independent. He doesn't believe racism still exists, but listened to Obama's speech today and was impressed with his character. He asked me a question I was unable to answer.

He is in essence a 2 issue voter. Late term abortion, and everything else. Anti #1, but otherwise very progressive. Unfortunately late term abortion and everything else carry approximately equal weight with him.

I looked on the Obama web site, and found nothing in a quick search. What are his positions in regard to Abortion, particularly late term?

And just in case it comes up, what are Clinton's positions re the same? If I can answer his questions with some information, I can likely gain us one new democrat.

[galactical]

1. I think he voted present...

on a late term abortion bill. Of course, whoever pushed for the bill knew it wouldn't make anywhere, but was designed so that it could be used against politicians during elections.

[democrattotheend]

17. I think that's right, but I believe he said

it was because there was no exemption or not a strong enough exemption for the woman's health. I believe Bill Clinton used a similar justification for vetoing a partial birth ban when he was president.

[ellenfl]

2. tell him if he objects to late term abortions, not to have one. eom

[tekisui]

3. 1st, I would counter his frame.

"Late-term-abortion" is a false frame.

What he is most likely thinking about is spiking a baby upon birth to kill it.

Late-term abortion is giving a woman the right to save her life in the event of a dangerous pregnancy. The ban of so-called "late-term abortion" band the ability for a woman to save her life, when it is in danger due to her pregnancy. It does NOT grant the right to abort a baby at any point from conception to birth, unless the mother's life is in danger.

Obama want abortions to be safe, legal and rare.

Late-term is necessary to save mother's lives. It is complete spin to suggest that it allow abortions for any reason at birth.

[tpsbmam]

7. Bingo -- way to go. n/t

[quakerboy]

14. He is pretty set on his frame

I have had the discussion with him many times. We both have medical backgrounds, and he has a very strong position that he recognizes is based on personal religious background, not on science. That hasn't made so much as the smallest dent in his choosing to maintain that position, that framing.

He has a moral opposition to Abortion as a whole, but has a weird technical language thing where he has decided it is ok to vote for people who "want to let women choose for themselves" and puts any moral impetus back on the conscience of the individual. But he gets stuck when it comes to what he has, and will continue to, refer to late term.

That said, I would find any links or direct references to speeches or official positions on this topic very helpful.

[Hamlette]

4. I think they both have the same position as Bill Clinton

late term only to safe life or preserve health of mother. Like the Supreme Court said in Roe v Wade.

[Clovis Sangrail]

5. tell him 'late term abortion' was a bullshit issue /nt

[tpsbmam]

6. Both candidates oppose the late-term abortion ban

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1726757620070718

Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama criticized recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions as hypocritical and inconsistent on Tuesday, saying a ruling upholding a late-term abortion ban was part of a concerted effort to roll back women's rights.

Obama and Democratic White House rival Hillary Clinton, making separate appearances at a conference of abortion rights activists, pointed with pride to their Senate votes against the confirmation of Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito.
......

Obama said the court's 5-4 rulings to uphold the late-term abortion ban, make it harder for women to sue over pay discrimination and strike down race-based school assignment programs were part an effort "to steadily roll back the hard-won rights of American women."

"There is an inconsistency, and I believe a hypocrisy, in terms of how we see these decisions being issued," the Illinois senator said of the Supreme Court.

"When the science is inconvenient, when the facts don't match up with the ideology, they are cast aside," he said.

......

(Clinton is referring to Roberts)


"At the top of the list was this effort to try to overturn Roe vs Wade or at least try to chip away at it," Clinton said, adding the Bush administration has waged war against contraception education and "set out from Day One to dismantle reproduction rights around the world."

[patrice]

8. And of course you know that voting present in Illinois indicates that

You don't want the bill to be defeated, nor to succeed, because of technical issues in the bill that still need work.

I think the Present vote could be a very intelligent option.

My guess is that "technical issues" in such a bill have to do with the definition of "health of the mother", something I suspect does need some clarification, but you'll have to ask Obama or someone in his local office.

Other technical issues?: I always wonder too, when this topic comes up - say you do restrict late term abortion somehow, what do "we" do about children born to mothers who don't want them? and most especially what if such children have major health issues requiring life long care?

[boston bean]

9. your boss is baiting you. he knows the answer, check out the web and you will find your answer. nt

[tammywammy]

10. Here's a link from On the Issues

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. I am fairly certain he would be opposed to a ban on late term abortions

He has 100% ratings from NARAL and Planned Parenthood, so I think that's a safe assumption.

It's sad that your boss has bought into the lies about this procedure. Almost without exception, they are done for medical reasons. To believe otherwise requires you to believe that there are masses of women who would callously dispatch with healthy late term fetuses, and doctors willing to perform abortions on them. A good friend of mine is an OB Gyn who occasionally does abortions as part of her practice. We were all at a party having a conversation about abortion and she said that it was unimaginable that she or any of her counterparts would do non-medically necessary abortions after the second trimester.

What does your boss think of women?

[Faygo Kid]

12. I smell a rat. A really big one. Be careful about your boss.

I have heard of single issue voters before, but a "progressive" whose big, singular issue is late-term abortions is about as difficult to find as a six-foot rabbit (sorry, I watched "Harvey" on Turner Classic Movies tonight).

You are being sold a bill of goods. This is no progressive. "He doesn't believe racism still exists?" What a joke. He is pulling your leg. This guy is a Hannity type. Be respectful, of course, but I wouldn't play his game.

He will never vote for Obama. Or Hillary. He's pulling your chain. Don't play along, and watch out. No responsible boss would play this kind of political game with an employee in this day and age. You are vulnerable, and please avoid politics with this boss.

I'm an attorney, and I smell a rat.

[mac2]

16. It's best to not talk politics or drink with them.

[quakerboy]

18. He is an odd duck

Ive never know him to lie on anything else. It is a small business, and I am not terribly vulnerable (I am the core of the business, I run every facet of it except the schmooze the clients part, and something like 2/3rds of the employees are my family).

He will NOT vote for any Republican. He has been saying that since 2 months before Bush was reselected last time, and I have heard it most every discussion since then. His big quote is "Democrats are better on everything, but I just cant get over this abortion thing"

He is a weird melange of thoughts, much as many people are. He has been a consistent proponent of social programs. EG, social medicine, government funded education, veterans benefits, and any number of other things. He does have some Reagan economics tendency's. He has a hard time believing that these things won't just work themselves out, even watching it operate on his business. He has a hard time believing in racism, because he doesn't see it in his personal experience(eg. his son the policeman is no racist, when he was a paramedic, they didn't worry about race they just helped people). To be fair to him, when I brought him some statistics from the justice department, he looked very sheepish and admitted that there might still be racism.(speaking of which, I remember a study not so long ago that showed that AA's tend to get higher conviction rates and harsher sentances when taken to court than Caucasians for the same crimes, but I havnt been able to find it.. anyone happen to remember that, and where I can find it?) But as with the economics, he doesn't want to believe it, and unless it is brought to him pointedly, he doesn't have to consider it deeply.

So. Help me bring it to him. As mentioned up-thread, specific quotes or official policy statements will be the most helpful.

[Drachasor]

13. He is not against banning late term abortion IF there are protections for the mother's health

He's said as much.

And he certainly wants to reduce the number of abortions as much as possible (by reducing the factors that make a need for abortions).

[mac2]

15. People just don't know what they are voting for....the real

issues. So what Hillary has experience? We didn't get much change in the end. So what Obama gives a good speech about race. We didn't get much from him in four years either.

I want the Constitution back not just for guns but for our right to trial and a lawyer, etc. What about these issues which we wanted in 2006 and never got them?

[Rosemary2205]

19. Rule #1 Never ever ever talk politics or religion with the boss.

or your in-laws.

[quakerboy]

20. MEH

I am a brave one. I have an escape route to Canada, so why worry unnecessarily?

[Mz Pip]

21. Late term abortion

This seems to be a seriously bizarre issue to hitch your political wagon to. ROe v Wade has never been about late term abortions. Late term abortions are in reality very very rare and do not occur without there being serious medical issues.

Women do not walk into a Drs office at 9 months and get an abortion just because they feel like it. But to hear the RW fundies talk about it, it is some common place elective procedure available on demand for any reason. It is not.

Your boss needs to do his homework on late term abortions and learn about how rare they really are and the reasons they are administered.