Congratulations Hillary, Your Cronies In Michigan & Florida Have Fucked Over Democrats

[KittyWampus]

royally.

You think we don't notice that the DLC hacks in both Florida and Michigan are the ones who started this whole entire fiasco?

And that you just magically happened to keep your name on the ballots?

It's obvious the only way you can win is using the pre-existing Democratic Party Machinery in a very few blue states and have to rely on breaking rules.

And it's also interesting it was your crony Terry McAuliffe who set the relevant rules and punishments regarding primaries when HE WAS HEADING THE DNC.

How nice for Hillary the Media decided to feature her bullshit about Michigan this morning.

Many Michingan voters cast a ballot in the GOP column because they were told their Democratic vote WOULD NOT COUNT.

They wouldn't have been disenfranchised if YOUR cronies hadn't set them up in the first place.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if they and you ever took responsibility for anything?

Yeah, I know. You take responsibility for bringing peace to Ireland and Kosovo.

[marylanddem]

1. Good analysis - I hadn't thought of it that way, makes sense...

[flpoljunkie]

81. St. Pete Times: Study shows an additional 1.15 million would have voted in FL if results mattered!

March 19, 2008
Disenfranchising Non-voters in FL

If Hillary Clinton got her way and Michigan and Florida had their rogue primaries counted, would voters still be disenfranchised. That's what Wharton professor Gregory P. Nini and journalist Glenn Hurowitz conclude in a study that concludes an additional 1.15 million Florida voters and 715,000 Michigan voters would have voted in January if they thought the results would matter.

The Times/Bay News 9/Miami Herald poll of 600 frequent voting Democrats (including 17 percent who did not vote in the primary) found that only 15 percent said the Amendment 1 initiative was the main thing that interested them about the primary.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/03/disenfranchisin.html

[tpsbmam]

96. Thanks for posting that -- just sent it to a bunch of people. n/t

[peace13]

2. Well she won in MI you know!

She could have at least given Dennis half of the votes. Oh that's right, with the major players out of the race she did get 55%. Good girl Hill. (I can call her that because she has said that...She's our girl!) Oops and I am trying to be positive today. OK here's one... Hillary you have really given this primary season a run for your money. I admire your tenacity. Please do the right thing for the love of your country.

[Birthmark]

3. Not so fast

Had the DNC not decided to nuke the voters of FL and MI, this wouldn't be happening at all. Had they shown simply as much wisdom as the Repubs --eliminating half the delegates instead of ALL the delegates-- this would be a near-total non-issue.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

[Melinda]

6. Half the delegates and pledged for whom?

Obama wasn't on MI's ballot, and he didn't campaign in FL... so how would you arrive at dividing the delegates?

[Birthmark]

12. Florida had a perfectly valid primary.

Michigan is problematic to be sure. But again, had the penalty up-front been half the delegates, then perhaps MI would have had a valid primary. As it is now, the best that can probably be done is a caucus in MI.

In Fl, we merely count the votes.

[dysfunctional press]

18. no, florida's primary wasn't valid.

voters had been told that their votes wouldn't count, and there was no campaigning, which gives an unfair advantage to the candidate with the most name recognition.

rules are rules- the delegates must not be seated.

[Birthmark]

26. You've got to be kidding.

Seriously. Nearly everyone knew who the candidates were and what the candidates' positions were/are. We also had a record turnout that was in-line with the increase in turnout in other states. All the candidates names were on the ballot.

Rules are rules? lol

If the rule says to disenfranchise the People when the People are powerless to prevent something, I submit that the rules are screwed up.

But, hey, if you WANT a McCain Presidency that's up to you.

[Growler]

62. this is not disenfranchisement!

Sorry, this really gnaws at me: Abiding by the rules and not seating FL's delegates is NOT disenfranchisement. If you think so, it's because you don't know what that word means.

You have no more "inalienable right" to vote in a private party's election than I have a right to vote at your condo association's board meeting. And that's what the Democratic party is: a private organization. They can make any rules they care to, and if you want to play at their picnic, you play by their rules, period.

This is not a federal election we are talking about, but strictly an internal DNC process. No one is preventing Floridians from voting in a governmental election. This is purely about how the Democratic Party chooses its candidate. They could flip a coin if they wanted to, or consult a Ouija board... and it would still be perfectly legal.

It's their rules... and YES, they get to make all the decisions about it. Don't like the rules? Then become active in the party and work to change them. But claiming that the DNC is "disenfranchising" anyone is utter crap.

[Birthmark]

64. It is disenfranchisement.

I went through this with someone else (or perhaps you). We even broke out the dictionary! Guess what? It's disenfranchisement.

How you justify that to yourself is your problem.

For me, my sigline sums up the reality of the situation.

[Growler]

72. they still voted

It seems like they did vote in Florida, and their votes were used to allocate delegates. So where do the charges of "disenfranchisement" come from??

To use an analogy I posted elsewhere: I'll bet Floyd Landis is pissed that his Tour de France title was stripped after it was revealed he'd won illegally. Sucks to be him.

The Floridian voters were allowed to vote AND their votes were used to allocate delegates... but no where does it say that the DNC must accept these tainted results.

[Zhade]

91. No, it's not. The courts trump your flawed analysis of the dictionary.

NT!

[Milo_Bloom]

77. THANK YOU!!!

This is one of those things that has driven me nuts...

a caucus disenfranchises voters... these voters are dienfranchised, etc...etc..


Once more for the very very slow...

"You have no more "inalienable right" to vote in a private party's election than I have a right to vote at your condo association's board meeting."


<CLAP CLAP CLAP>

[Growler]

79. You're welcome!

:)

[dysfunctional press]

66. the "record turnout" was because of the property tax measure on the ballot.

and yes rules are rules- even though floridians apparently don't care about rules, and don't feel that they should be bothered to abide by them- 48 states, guam, puerto rico, and d.c. were ALL able to play by the rules. to allow florida and michigan to get away with thumbing their noses at them would be utterly unfair and undemocratic. sorry.

and names on the ballot are not the same thing as being able to campaign in a state. otherwise, the person with the most name recognition has the obvious advantage.

rules must be adhered to in order to retain any amount of legitimacy to the process.

better luck bext time, though. :hi:

[Birthmark]

68. Same to you.

After all, we'll both be loving that President McCain, won't we? The Democrats can NOT win without Florida. Period. The last forty years have proved that.

I also appreciate your ability to make up an excuse. For instance, you know that the turnout was for the property tax bill...because that's what you want to be true. lol

There is no question of the legitimacy of the Florida vote. The DNC just doesn't like it. Well, too bad for them. We've got 'em by the short and curlies. And I'm beginning to enjoy it.

[Hawkeye-X]

82. Dude - they should have voted last week.

Sure, Fl had the primary moved up because of the amendment issue - Republicans moved it up so they can vote and get punished - they decided to go for it and take half of the delegates. Dems followed the Republican legislature and got punished for it - ZERO delegates. Growler's right - if Floridans had learned a little patience, they would have been very relevant right now.

No matter what bullshit comes outta your ass, it's still bullshit, and you need to stop blaming DNC - it's the rules committee that Harold Ickes (Clinton supporter) was part of - sanctioned both Michigan and Florida, and both legislatures in MI and Florida don't want a do-over, sorry - but them's the rules.

Growler's also right about one other thing - DNC is a private entity - not a public one, so no voters were disenfranchised - now if it was the GE, you might have an argument, but right now your argument holds no water.

Hawkeye-X

[Zhade]

93. The Liars for Clinton club doesn't care about your facts.

Thankfully, this will all end when clinton finally accepts her loss. Then we'll hear no more lies from them.

[Hawkeye-X]

101. Gee. That's why *I* never get a response when I confront 'em with the truth.

Truth is hell.

[juajen]

97. That's truly funny! As if no Floridian wouldn't recognize the

name BARACK OBAMA! I bet all of those names were familiar to Floridians. My son lives there and he is not political at all, and he knew every one of them, and he was voting Hillary, which surprised me as he had no idea who I supported. Floridians love Hillary Clinton. This was a sneaky way to eliminate one of Hillary's best states. Obama knows that vote was legitimate. The only fair thing would be to seat the delegates. I love Howard Dean, but he is being uncharacteristically stubborn. I think he supports Barack Obama.

Once again, people wanted to vote for President or they could have left that blank. Record turnout of democratic voters should certainly be counted, and if Obama had won this state by this margin, his "people" would be in the streets rioting. That's their threat every time they do not get their way. Bullying tactics seem so Rovian.

[dysfunctional press]

98. the only ones doing any "bullying" are the ones trying to change the pre-agreed upon rules...

to their advantage.

sorry.

:hi:

[krkaufman]

78. You couldn't be more wrong if your surname was Crist.

The Florida turnout was one of the few states this year where Democratic turnout was lower than Republican turnout, so commenting on record year-over-year turnout is disingenuous. Hundreds of thousands of Florida Democrats did not vote in the Florida primary because they were told the primary was explicitly invalid and would not be counted.

And your refusal to recognize that an election without any active campaigning is inherently unfair doesn't change reality.

The only fair remedy that wouldn't disenfranchise some segment of the MI & FL electorates would be conducting re-do primaries or caucuses, as proscribed in the DNC rules.

[reflection]

86. Once again, ( not that it will make any difference)

You cannot 'disenfranchise' someone by rendering their primary vote invalid. Parties are allowed to elect their representatives any way they see fit, including reading tea leaves or throwing chicken bones in the air and judging the pattern they fall in. If you continue to use the word 'disenfranchise' in a primary context, you are either being disingenuous or just obtuse.

[WilyWondr]

19. "Florida had a perfectly valid primary"?

I don't even want to know if you are being serious.

[Birthmark]

27. Well, let's see...

Record turnout: Check

All the candidates on the ballot: Check

In accordance with State law: Check

I'm amazed that the Democratic Party is so cavalier about throwing out votes based on a technicality over which their voters had no control. So, if the Democratic Party doesn't want my vote, I'll oblige. In November.

[movonne]

48. Now how dumb is that???? suck it up and lets get back to trying

to win this election...

[Birthmark]

51. I'm with you

The moment vote is counted. Until then, good luck to you, but count me (and many others) out.

[sellitman]

89. You will be responsible for a repiggy win with that attitude.

With out campaigning Obama was at a huge disadvantage. If you think the vote was fair and balanced the you are nuts.

[Melinda]

23. In light of the fact that FL violated DNC rules, how is FL's primary inviolate?

[Birthmark]

31. See my post above. nt

[Melinda]

44. The DNC is a separate entity from States. States don't set DNC rules; please answer my question?

Primaries = party votes

General Election = state votes

You have the two mixed up.

If State party members wish to participate in National party conventions, they must abide by National party rules.

State party leaders in FL and MI deliberately chose to violate the National party rules, state party delegates don't get to party.

The pissed of FL and MI need to remove those state party leaders who did this to them so it doesn't happen again.

I just gotta add this... FL politics are just so fucked up; why is it always FL that shits all over everything?

[WilyWondr]

54. Can we just give FL to Cuba?

Maybe a peace offering for the 40 year embargo that has royally screwed that country?

[Birthmark]

59. That's some fancy bullshit, hoss.

"A" for effort; "F" for effect.

In point of fact, the FL Democrats didn't *actually* break the rules. They merely voted for a bill that would have been law even had EVERY FL Democrat in the Legislature voted against it.

The DNC certainly isn't very Democratic.

[juajen]

99. Ya know, the FL voters had nothing to do with this.

TPTB in the FL legislature took the reins of the donkey and the elephant and ran with it. The voters just came to the polls when they were told to.

Howard Dean is being ridiculously heavy handed about this, and as stated before, I think he has something against Hillary.

[movonne]

50. Why is has nothing to do with the rules...you just make them up as

you go along....

[Birthmark]

63. Yup.

If a rule is depriving people of rights it SHOULD be ignored and replaced by something that's appropriate. My first allegiance is to the rights of the People; yours appears to be to "rules."

[Hawkeye-X]

83. Then you should be arguing with the People of the State of Florida

which your duly-elected state reps are.

Not the DNC.

Hawkeye-X

[Zhade]

94. There are no rights being violated here - there is no right to vote in a primary.

You can lie all day long and say there is, but legal precedent proves you wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Melinda]

49. "In Florida we merely count the votes" OMG, sorry but that is just too rich!!

Hanging chads, anyone? :rofl:

Seriously dude, you are all over the place with your thesis, but you offer no evidence in support of it.

Insisting that something is so, with direct controverting evidence in place, impeaches one's credibility.

I'll wait patiently. ;)

[Birthmark]

70. Well, in deference to you...

...I'll go through it slowly.

In Florida, all the candidates were on the ballot.

In Florida, our turnout was a record, 233% the turnout of 2004.

In Florida, we voted on the day appointed by the Republican State Legislature.

Rejecting those votes will cost the Democratic Nominee the State of Florida --and if the last forty years are any indication-- the White House.

I don't think that I can make the words any smaller or the sentences any simpler. :)

[Usrename]

73. Please take your head out of the sand. You are being lied to.

Here is what happened in Florida when Obama's campaign left town:



Compare this to any other state you want, where Obama did campaign, like, for instance, South Carolina:



or Alabama (South Carolina Jan 26 and Alabama Feb 5 bracketed the Florida Jan 29 vote)



Now are you ready to face up to reality about this?

Do you still want to argue for how fair this process was for Clinton, by not allowing Obama to campaign in Florida?

Can you see reality now? The people who are telling you that this was fair are lying to you. Get it?

[Blue-Jay]

52. "In Fl, we merely count the votes."

LOL!

[elixir]

60. Agreed. Since Obama campaigned in Florida those votes should count.

[Usrename]

74. Really? I live in Florida and he was never here.

:shrug:

[elixir]

61. Agreed. Since Obama campaigned in Florida those votes should count.

[Zhade]

90. False, FL's was not valid AND THIS WAS KNOWN BEFOREHAND.

I know - my parents live there.

[flyarm]

28. bullshit!! 1 million $$ of Obama commericals came into Florida before the election here!

he was the only candidate to break his pledge!

and no where was it in the rules he needed to remove his name from the MI ballot..it was his choice and his choice alone..

and it is no ones fault but those supporters of his like Markos at Daily Kos that told dems to cross over and vote for Romney

and the DNC rules..yes the rules said only 1/2 the delegates would be removed..it was Obama supporter Donna Brazile who pushed to remove all the delegates from Florida...and before the damn ink was dry..the only candidate to break the rules and sanctions was Obama..and he was the only one to do so!

stop the damn lies!

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

Obama Vows To 'Do What's Right'

By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 30, 2007

Fundraising Totals | Primary States | Where They Stand

TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.

Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.

The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as "campaigning," and those include "holding news conferences."

Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that's the case, then we won't do it again."

[Birthmark]

35. According to some:

We don't have the intertubes or tv, radio, or newspapers down here. The only way we know who to vote for is if the candidate comes here and tells us personally.

How'd ya like to live the head that thinks that kind of crap? ;)

[WilyWondr]

46. stop the damn lies!

They BOTH raised $$ in FL. What pledge are you talking about?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lsxwJE2UeSU

The cons were running ads about the fact that the Dems were raising money in FL, but were not running campaigns....but I am sure you knew that.

[Usrename]

75. Bullshit on your bullshit. He left Florida.

Don't let reality interfere with your little fantasy that you seem to be enjoying.

[KittyWampus]

7. WRONG! Hillary's cronies pushed violating primary dates. MCAULLIFE set the rules & punishments

The RULES and PUNISHMENTS were set on the books by Clinton crony Terry McAuliffe who threatened to enforce those same rules when HE was head of the DNC.

[Birthmark]

14. Evidence?

Or should we just take your word for it. Not that aren't trustworthy, but it's entirely possible that you're mistaken.

So, if you don't mind...

[anamandujano]

29. They don't need evidence. If they can propound a theory in their

logic challenged minds, then they think it's valid and toss it out there, no matter how twisted.

[Debi]

32. Ask yourself when Howard Dean was elected Chairman of the DNC

and when the Calendar Commission was created.

[Melinda]

40. McAuliffe as head of the DNC in 2004 said this:

Here's what Terry McAuliffe said to Carl Levin in 2004, as reported in his book, "What a party".

Expletives were flying. The head of the Democratic National Committee was having it out with Sen. Carl Levin because Michigan wanted to crash the rarefied club of early presidential primary states.

Move your primary too early, Terry McAuliffe warned, and Michigan will lose half its delegates to the 2004 Democratic convention.

"The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television," McAuliffe vowed. "I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules."

[Birthmark]

43. Geez, a guy said something.

Well, if I'd known that then I'd NEVER insist my vote be counted. :sarcasm:

[Melinda]

53. Reading IS fundamental" Terry McAuliffe is not "some guy". He's the "guy" you're relying on

to seat FL and MI. :rofl:

[Birthmark]

65. And his word is law?

Nope. The DNC had to *vote* to disenfranchise Floridians. What Terry says is what Terry says. I don't much care about what he says, to tell the truth.

And I'm not relying on him. He's relying on me...unless he WANTS a President McCain. If he doesn't, he'd better hop to and count my vote. No excuses.

[Hawkeye-X]

85. Exsqueeze me - DNC did not disenfranchise the voters

Noone was disenfranchised - it was a private party vote. GE may have an argument, but not the primaries.

[MessiahRp]

102. LOL yes the party shall bow down to almighty you.

If you're willing to throw away the Presidency over not getting a re-vote when Florida knew the rules and should not have jumped ahead... not to mention having a re-vote won't change the results anyway because Hillary can't win...

Then you're not a Democrat. Oh my primary vote didn't count the way I wanted it to and who I wanted to win didn't so I am going to cry and whine and take my ball and go home.

There's an entire country that is bigger than the shattered egos of a few Floridian Clinton supporters and they need change regardless of your fucking primary.

Rp

[Hawkeye-X]

84. Here. McAuliffe set the rules.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020121/nichols

[rinsd]

24. Links? McAullife hasn't been head of the DNC since 2005.

[Debi]

30. The Calendar Commission was created before Dean was elected Chair n/t

[Birthmark]

39. Yeah?

Then why this:

"December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates

By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is breaking the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.

The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot."
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats... /

Hmm?

[Debi]

47. Why what?

The committee implementing the rules put in place by the Calendar Commission?

[Birthmark]

67. You just tell yourself anything, don't you?

But why do you believe you? What if they had voted NOT to? Where would the rule be? What if they had done what they should have --and voted to strip FL of half its delegates? Would the cops come in and take them to jail? lol

They had all kinds of leeway, but they just couldn't resist screwing up.

But they'll have four years during the McCain Administration to smugly enjoy their "victory." Maybe they'll invite you to the party!

[Debi]

71. What are you talking about?

:crazy:

[movonne]

45. Have you ever thought that who wanted those early primaries..who

did they benefit...maybe if more people could learn to play by the rules there would not be so much strife in this world...

[Melinda]

4. Another poster on the "congrats Obama" thread posted a bunch of articles attesting to the truth

of your post. Wish he'd post them here, but here's a link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5157828#5157996

Obama's all about personal responsibility; Hillary and supporters.... not so much.

[EFerrari]

5. She wanted all the races as soon as possible because Obama

was ramping up, is that it?

[rodeodance]

8. sour grapes--cause the media covered MI today. tsk tsk

[KittyWampus]

10. I am covering the extent to which Clinton is incapable of displaying any integrity

and consorts with those who have zero respect for the DNC, the Rules and fellow Democrats.

[LisaM]

9. You're talking about "personal responsiblity" of voters who went to another party's primary?

Give me a break.

This "but they voted for the Republican and now it's so sad their votes won't count" meme is new.

As we ALL know, there were three candidates who left their names on the Michigan ballot. Clinton was not the only one. Kucinich even campaigned in Michigan.

But, at the time, Democratic voters were encouraged to vote Uncommitted in Michigan. Check the Michigan state forum if you don't believe me. It was all over the airwaves, too. You were not allowed to write in a name.

My family all went to the ballot and voted uncommitted. They are ethical people, and wouldn't DREAM of voting in a Republican primary.

Why are we supposed to feel bad for Democrats (if that's what they really are) who decided to make mischief on the Republican side?

[KittyWampus]

11. There is nothing ETHICAL about helping FL & MI break the Rules.

[LisaM]

15. The DNC is at fault here.

As you must be aware, in both states, the Democratic parties tried to move the primaries to a later date and were prevented from doing so by the state Republicans.

So now millions of voters don't get a say and we're supposed to be sorry for people who decided to take their vote to the other side of the aisle?

As I said, it'a a brand new meme. Poor pitiful crossover voters!

[KittyWampus]

20. The DNC sets rules and enforces them. Clinton crony, McAuliffe set the rules and threatened states

when HE WAS HEAD OF THE DNC.

You cannot function as a group if you do not have rules and regulations and ways to enforce those rules.

[LisaM]

34. But you are missing my point.

The state parties tried to change back to comply with the rules. In both states, they were prevented from doing this by Republicans. In fact, in FLorida, it was Republicans who set the new dates to begin with! If the DNC is going to "punish" them for this, what is to prevent Republican majorities in other states from doing this in the future, so that Democrats don't get primaries or delegates from lots of states?

The upshot is that now you have a lot of angry voters in both states. I think they are angry at the wrong people, but they will take this out on the Democrats in the GE. It will trickle down to other races, too, if Democrats stay home. I can't speak for Florida, but I know in Michigan there is a strong kook contingent that the good liberals have to fight hard to fend off.


Howeard Dean needs to show some statsesmanship on this issue.

[VolcanoJen]

21. Rules Count.

From today's NYT, worth a full read, from the former Communications Director of the Iowa Democratic Party:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/opinion/19giddins.html?ref=opinion

That said, because millions of people from Florida and Michigan should not be punished for the short-sighted acts of their state’s Democratic Party leaders, the states’ delegates should be welcome at the national convention in Denver. But the delegates “won” in those noncompliant elections in January should be split 50-50 between the two remaining candidates.

There is no such thing as a do-over. Do-overs are what you get when the end results don’t matter. Do-overs are what children do on a playground. Adults accept their mistakes, learn from them and move on.

[Drifter]

13. No ...

the state parties did that. She won a scrimmage or a preseason game.
It doesn't count.

Cheers
Drifter

[OzarkDem]

16. MI and FL caused their own problems

Any other false accuastions you want to make about Hillary?

It will do Obama and Clinton well if Dems stick to arguing issues instead of attacking each other.

[movonne]

56. I'm glad to see someone (hillary supporter) speak some truth..thank you..

[Cha]

17. Bottom line..hilary

fucks over Democrats.

[mtnsnake]

22. Hillary is playing by the rules. She doesn't need to cheat to beat Obama

The Goddess of Peace always plays it fair and square. Tough for Obama if he can't stand the heat...

[dionysus]

55. heyyyy there.... mtnsnake..

there's another candidate you should try...
there's no need no need to run and hide, just repudiate the DLC... and you will beeee... a new mtnsnake....

[Zhade]

95. You realize she's losing, right?

Maybe you just can't do math?

[anamandujano]

25. Bama's people are disenfranchising those voters and you manage to

twist it to blame Hillary.

You may succeed with your enablers in this forum but those voters know who is responsible.

[ORDem]

88. I call BS on this crap that Obama is blocking a re-vote.

Read other current thread that shows how the lame voting rules for a re-vote would be set up in MI. They would actually enfranchise GOP votes while disenfranchising some Dem votes!

Hillary does not want a re-vote in MI, she just wants to make it look like she wants one. She would do less well in a new primary where the voters actually know their votes will count and where Obama's name is on the ballot. Plus, all the MI vote/delegates she counts now in her column would disappear until at least June. She's smokin' us here. Consummate politician and folks are falling for it.

ON EDIT: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5164116&mesg_id=5164116

:dem:

[asthmaticeog]

104. This is it, DU!

The most jaw-droppingly deluded post in GDP EVER! :bounce: :toast: :party: :party: :toast: :bounce:

[apocalypsehow]

33. Exactly right - your post is spot-on. K & R.

:thumbsup:

[2rth2pwr]

36. I want a person in the WH who can win.

It's not beanbag out there.

[redqueen]

37. Lately I'm starting to see this as a DLC swipe at Dean...

sad to see so many falling for it... but I guess the DLC is maybe way more popular than I thought around here.

[Debi]

38. Looks like four more years of same as usual

x(

[Birthmark]

41. Yup.

Unless the Democratic Party learns how to treat its voters fairly, you can pretty much count on four years of more of the same.

[thevoiceofreason]

42. It is crazy that she admitted that Michigan did not count

Now wants to count it.

"Hillary, why don't you take your name off the ballot too?"

"Why, it doesn't matter. The vote won't count anyway."

[thoughtcrime1984]

58. That about sums up HRC

Disingenuous as hell.

[elixir]

57. Did Hillary's bs on Michigan follow or precede Obama's bs on the iraq war?

Ah, yes, peace in Ireland and Kosovo, good times. Thanks for reminding me.

BTW, anything yet from Hillary's schedules? Oh, yeah, the press is having fun talking about how she was booked solid during the Lewinsky scandal, talking about how resolute she was during a lonely and adverse time in her life. Yup, that will solidify the female voters and display how "tough" she is unlike another democratic candidate who took three days - or was it 6 mths - to respond to the Rev. Wrong fiasco.

[workinclasszero]

69. Yup. It was a DLC set up from the get go (nt)

[New Dawn]

76. K&R!

Down with the DLC!

[krkaufman]

80. Most importantly, don't forget that Clinton supporter Ickes was directly involved in the stripping..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4623235

[shenmue]

87. Wrong, hers are the ones trying to get the votes counted.

Obama people don't want the votes counted, because those two states don't seem to fall in line with the Obama Worship Society.

So let's take away their part in democracy.

You don't even care about the point, you just hate Hillary. There is nothing you will not do to say something nasty about her.

The constant snottiness is hurting you with voters.

[mrJJ]

92. Democratic Leadership Council

Key Dem Urged NYT Reporter against Running Warrantless Wiretapping Story

Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) another Clinton... DLC member Democratic Leadership Council

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/key_dem_urged_nyt_reporter_aga.php

[juajen]

100. Uh, you're upset because Hillary got a smidgeon of TV coverage

when it's been wall-to-wall Obama for days? You're sick!

[KittyWampus]

103. kick for truth

[Texas Hill Country]

105. I would say that its really Obama's peeps at this point...