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This Wright issue is entirely about race.

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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:34 PM
Original message
This Wright issue is entirely about race.
Edited on Wed Mar-19-08 06:18 PM by Drunken Irishman
Anyone who says otherwise has their head in the sand.

This issue is all about race and you only have to look toward the hypocrisy of the media and Republicans to solidify this belief. Which, especially in today's world, really should be unsettling to every Democrat, whether they support Obama or not.

What we have seen the past week is the media trying to undermine Obama by using the words of his pastor, while white, Republicans get a pass on what the religious zealots on their side say. I know some will refute this argument by saying Obama has been in a close relationship with his pastor for 20 years and his actions and words have shaped Obama as a person. However, it does not matter if it's 20 years or just merely 2, hate rhetoric is hate rhetoric no matter whose mouth it comes out of. And if they are so inclined to believe Obama is any less of a leader because of the words of his pastor, then it seems only logical they too share these views when it comes to their religious leaders. But they do not. Apparently, it is ok for Pat Robertson to blame 9/11 on the gays and lesbians, feminists, abortionists and the ACLU, by stating America deserved the terrorist attacks, yet it is not ok for Rev. Wright to denounce America's foreign policy by saying it was responsible for laying the foundation of anti-American extremism. A point shared by none other than Ron Paul.

It is ok for Pat Robertson to pray for the death of a Supreme Court judge, or wish the destruction of a small Pennsylvania town, but it's not ok for Rev. Wright to question the government's actions toward the black community. It's ok for Pat Robertson to stand side-by-side with Rudy Giuliani, endorsing his campaign for presidency, yet Rev. Wright's association with Obama is automatically toxic and one that he needs to not only reject and denounce, but a relationship and an association he must sever all ties with. Even though no Republican and no member of the media demanded Giuliani reject and renounce the views of Pat Robertson, which often called on hurting American citizens in response to actions he did not support. Nor did they question why Giuliani was receiving the endorsement of such a man and they definitely didn't ask him to cut off all ties with Robertson. In fact, the media actually played up the endorsement as a plus because it provided Giuliani the necessary bridge between many social conservatives who were not supporting him because of his views on homosexuality and abortion.

Then there is Senator John McCain. In 2000, during his first presidential run, he spoke on the extremes of both the left and the right, by clumping Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton with the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. This was a risky move in 2000, as it alienated the growing social conservatives and in fact very much ended his campaign. A few years later, McCain is laying the foundation for another run and he sees the necessity of having a connection with those evangelical fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell. So he does a complete 180 and goes from renouncing their divisive rhetoric to not only speaking at Falwell's private university, but praising the Reverend and his actions. Even though Jerry Falwell used his pulpit and his standing in the religious community to preach hate among Americans that did not align with his views of Christianity. The media mentioned it, but rarely expressed concern and hardly asked him to renounce the words of Falwell. Yet if he is praising, undoubtedly that means he must accept those beliefs, or so we're told with this whole Obama/Wright issue.

But it does not end there for McCain. A couple of years after embracing Falwell, he accepts spiritual advice from the anti-gay Rod Parsley. This is the same man who once said we should wage a holocaust on Islam. More hate speak that McCain only lightly had to distance himself from, but never a forceful condemnation and it never got to the point where it was said to derail his campaign. Parsley, though, looks moderate when compared to John Hagee, who endorsed McCain not too long ago. Hagee has called Catholicism the Great Whore, admitted he has more allegiance to Israel than he does the United States, but the only denunciation of his remarks came from the Catholic League. No other major organization demanded McCain not only renounce and reject those views, but cut off all contact and support from Hagee. And even though McCain said he did not agree with some of his comments, he never was asked to reject the endorsement. He was never put in the position to defend those comments and he definitely -- in many people's eyes -- was not guilty by solely associating with the man.

So this what we have. We have Sen. McCain who has openly supported and commended anti-gay, anti-American, anti-Islam pastors and he is given a free pass on all of this. There is no talk of McCain having a pastor problem of his own. Or the fact that two men who are close to the McCain campaign have said just as hateful and divisive statements as Rev. Wright. Why? Because they are white and Rev. Wright and Obama are black. We have two preachers here damning America for its policies. One doing it based on its domestic policy of apparently being pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-feminism and pro-ACLU, while the other damning America for its foreign policy and the impact it has had on causing more terrorism. The former is often lauded and never really a political liability, the latter has not only been called anti-American, but some have even stated he might be treasonous. The double standard is clear and only shows how much racism is still apart of our society today. If Obama had been white and his pastor had been white as well, no one would be making this an issue. Just as they have not made McCain's religious influences an issue, or Giuliani's or even Huckabee's.

This is an issue about race and it is pretty obvious with the coverage we have seen of his sermons. It's unfortunate that in the 21st Century we still have these racial biases. But it's true and this is what Obama will be fighting not only when he wins the nomination, but when he wins the presidential election. Every aspect of his personal life will be analyzed and scrutinized because he happens to be black. There is little room for error here, because everything Obama has done in his entire life and continues to do now will be defined by the fact he is a black man. This is why Obama's speech yesterday was so important because he now knows race is an issue and it can't be ignored. The fact Rev. Wright's comments, however controversial they may be, are used to characterize Obama as whole, while McCain gets a free pass on his radical religious associations, proves this.
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Clinton has skeletons regarding her faith, too. None of this should be part of our discourse.
People should be judged by their own words and beliefs, not those of someone they've associated with. Is there anyone reading this who would be ok with being judged according to every bad thing your friends have ever said?
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David Dunham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. Wright's comments are largely anti-white. 60 plus % of US voters are white
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Wright belongs to a predominantly white denomination.
So, doubtful that he's anti-white.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. That is so misleading. The church he is ministers too, is overwhelmingly black.
The UCC may overall be white, but not Baracks church.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. How does an anti-white congregation belong
to a majority white parent denomination?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. It's not an anti white congregation except on Fox News.
Edited on Wed Mar-19-08 10:23 PM by sfexpat2000
It is in fact a diverse congregation and a real force in the community that even hosts student groups from mostly white schools. :wow:
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. I know that., I was trying to get the Hillbot to admit
they were full of shit.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Sorry, I was just singing harmony. And not very well!
lol
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. So what?
I dare say that at least half of those folks who are white are intelligent enough to figure out the real dynamics of this BS smear.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. You've heard ALL of Wright's remarks?
Wow.

Can you quote to me anything "anti-white" that he said that was not included in the 40 seconds of video we've had shoved down our throats for the last week?

You don't have to quote all of them - since the "large" portion of his comments over the past 40 years or so would be pretty hefty. But if you could cite, oh let's say, 5 or 6 other comments he's made that have been "largely anti-white" it would be very instructive - and also would give me reason not to assume that you're a race-baiting liar.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. Would you like to cite specific anti-white rhetoric?
I'm guessing that most, if not all of it, will turn out to be anti-discrimination.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Maddow just tried to say exactly this on MSNBC and was rudely shouted down
by Scarborough, who actually looked like he might enjoy harming her. Pat Buchanan, on Hardball, nearly had a stroke.. seriously.. when the other guest suggested "Don't be afraid" and "You ought to spend more time in a black church, Pat." That, of course, was after he had somehow connected Obama via Wright to a militant bomber.

No one can watch even a small portion of the MSM coverage, and spend any time on THIS board, and not know its a racial thing. It is. Big scary militant black men. Boo! :wow: :scared:
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. That was Joe Madison who put Pat Buchanan in his place.
It was a delight to watch.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yes. I wish they'd have him on more often and I wonder if he was brought on
specifically to counter Buchanan. I know for a fact they have gotten hundreds if not thousands of complaints about PB and his angry racist words.

They should just take him off the air.. him and Scarborough.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. How did Pat Buchanan become MSNBC's resident race expert?
It's interesting that they drag out Pat Buchanan to speak for white folks (and, in so doing, give some the impression that white people are a bunch of bigots) but on those rare occasions when they deign to allow a black person on to speak for black folks, they cherrypick from an assortment of different black people to appear on the show. So the "white" view has a certain consistency and an opportunity to build up somewhat of a rapport (if Buchanan is capable of any such thing) while the "black" view is inconsistent and often unfamiliar.

One reason I think they do it is that the black guests aren't as comfortable (not appearing from dawn to midnight on live television day after day after day) or as willing to challenge the host and other guests since, unlike Buchanan, they aren't under contract and would probably like to be invited back some time soon.

Joe Madison showed them what to do with it, though, didn't he? I loved that he got right in Buchanan's face, challenged him, and did not back down - and did it all with grace, style and politeness.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. An absolute pleasure
"What are you so AFRAID of?!"
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Buchanan and Scarborough are really the only two people left on
MSNBC pushing this story. Everyone else seems to have moved on...though Craig Crawford could surprise when he comes back. He's such a shill it's amazing, he'd say anything I believe.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I swear, if you look at their faces and the way they are responding to
anyone on the subject, they look very scary. White men threatened. They're both just nasty and vile.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Check out my new sig picture
:D
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. And let's not leave out Falwell.
How many Republicans chose not to cast their vote for Reagan because Falwell (a man he raised to national importance and to whom he gave an eight-year pulpit to spew hate speech) said that AIDS was a well-deserved punishment for homosexuality? Sure, maybe one or two, but if we're going to have the crazy hate-filled pastor discussion, I say Bring It On.

All of the Republicans who are so worried about the words of a Pastor need to look at what they were willing to overlook over the years and ask themselves if hate speech is okay when it's your guy doing the hating.

Frankly, the Republicans should hate Jerry Falwell for turning their party into a laughing stock. But, I'm not holding my breath.

One thing's for sure: neither side has the monopoly on hate speech.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. K/R.
:kick:
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Of course. Ugly stuff for 2008.
Guess we had to expect it from the racists Hannity and Limbaugh, et al, but hate to see it here.

As we soon recall April 4, 1968, I had hoped we could do better.

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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. the double standard needs to be called out
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I wish more people would.
Sadly, it seems no one really is, outside of a few progressives.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. and those that don't.....
silence implies consent
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. Frankly, I think the double standard would apply even if the preacher were white
Republican loonies are given a pass- and legitimized by the corporate media (and EVEN by the DINO's) -whereas if a progressive pastor comes out and says similar things in a different vein, they're crucified.

Race is a problem too- OBVIOUSLY -but don't kid yourself about it being the whole ball of wax.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I guess we'll have to disagree on that one.
I obviously think it would've been an issue had the guy been white, but not played at this level.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. yeah, without that angry black man aspect to it
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Exactly.
This is their way of playing up the anti-whitey angry black man. They do this to undermine blacks in politics and have done it for a very long time. Hopefully, though, people see through this bullshit.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. I heard Hillary's using the wright story to push superdelegates into her camp
her campaign surrogate, Lanny Davis, is also pushing the Wright story on Huffpo.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's a double standard.
One has to wonder why they are not discussing Hillary's secret "Family".

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html


.

"Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

snip

"Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan."

snip

"The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance."
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. You nailed it k&r
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
28. If what you say is true, why didn't Obama say it?
Obama was not forced to make a big event and announce he was going to have a "major"

speech on race. He decided that, on his own, against the advice of some on his campaign staff.


Direct your anger at the right target.
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. because it would be "playing the race card"
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. LOL!
you're serious aren't you?

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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. I grew up with racism in my immediate family...
..and I was with them throughout my formative years, yet I'm not racist. So the argument falls flat, particularly when you consider that Obama was an adult when he met his pastor, that Obama would have inherited some of these traits by default.

In fact, sometimes the opposite is true. Because of the non-overt racism of my father growing up, it became far more obvious to me when people were behaving with racism in their hearts even if their words didn't say antyhing particularly offensive. You suddenly realize that the "Well, I have plenty of Negro friends, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one" arguments are just passive agressive forms of racism that only mask something that they aren't willing to express more vehemently.

I've gone off topic a bit here, but the point is that it is ENTIRELY possible to learn from and admire someone, despite their failings - and to do so without necessarily absorbing the less desirable traits. Not only is it possible to learn from them, but it's possible to love them as well.
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