Obama's mistake has become our own

[ginchinchili]

Sen. Obama's mistake was to run for president with so little national experience, and now we are at risk of owning that mistake ourselves. Obama was very impressive during the 2004 Democratic Convention and I felt sure I was watching a rising star. But it takes time for a star to rise and Obama hasn't given it enough time. It appears that he's allowed himself to grow over-confident and cocky, believing that he's smart enough to "wing it" into the presidency, and I'm afraid he'd be doing the same as president.

My #1 argument against Bush in 2000 was that he didn't have the experience necessary to be an effective president, and I apply the same standard to Obama. He, too, lacks the experiential qualifications to be president. He should have demonstrated patience, studying the national political process longer and more thoroughly, as well as gaining some international experience. Now he's made himself appear to be lacking in sound judgment, not to mention some questionable ethical considerations as well. At this point he would better serve himself, the Democratic Party and the Nation by gracefully bowing out of this primary race.

[Bonobo]

1. Honestly, as POTUS, is anyone really "ready"? A gov. of Arkansas is "ready"?

Doesn't everyone have to adapt to the job?

[greyghost]

33. It's a proven fact that a governor of Texas isn't.

[Texas Hill Country]

67. FYI - TX is a weak governor state... they are a figurehead and do just about zip.

hell, even the railroad commissioner has more power in TX than the governor. The Lt. Gov is the spot.


AR is a strong governor state.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. He has more experience than Abe Lincoln had when he was elected President.

Not that there was anything really serious going on in those days.

[billbuckhead]

7. Yeah and that lead to a civil war

[ingac70]

20. Secession had already happened...

And the South attacked the North just 3 months into Abe's term. the guy before Abe was the most experienced Pres. we ever had. He left a fucking mess

[FrenchieCat]

29. You obviously don't know your history......

but why am I not surprised? :crazy:

[zonkers]

34. Yes he does. Those storm clouds were in the works for the prev. 20 plus years.

[billbuckhead]

40. I'll accept your apology in advance

"The United States presidential election of 1860 set the stage for the American Civil War. The nation had been divided throughout most of the 1850s on questions of states' rights and slavery in the territories. In 1860 this issue finally came to a head, fracturing the formerly dominant Democratic Party into Southern and Northern factions and bringing Abraham Lincoln and the Republican Party to power without the support of a single Southern State.
The immediate result of Lincoln's victory was declarations of secession by South Carolina and other states, which were rejected as illegal by the then-current President, James Buchanan and President-elect Abraham Lincoln.".

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election%2C_1860>

[Drachasor]

55. They Suceded BEFORE Lincoln was sworn in

Look up your history. Buchanan, who was the President during those 3 months (and had a lot of experience, btw), sat by and did nothing as the Southern States left, stole military supplies, and otherwise armed themselves.

[ginchinchili]

11. That depends on how you measure experience.

Lincoln had more formative experience than Obama, nor were we involved in 2 wars at the time of Lincoln's election. When the Civil War started he was as qualified to deal with it as anyone was, but the same is not true for Obama and Iraq/Afghanistan. They are foreign wars and Obama has zero foreign policy experience and zero military experience. Has Obama even been to Iraq? I know Joe Biden had been 8 or 9 times when he was running in this primary.

[ingac70]

23. The Civil War...

Began 3 months after Abe took office.

[zonkers]

38. Your statement is ridiculous. You write as if Abe flicked a switch and

started the civil war. Actually the situations that led to the war were in the making for the prev. 20 or 30 years and started during the Jackson presidency.

[ingac70]

59. Where did I say that? n/t

[boppers]

51. You think Obama has zero foreign policy and military experience?

Wowzers. Here, free from wikipedia:

"Obama holds assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations;<45> Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs, and he is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus.<46> He is a chairman of the Subcommittee on European Affairs.<47>".

"As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.<64> Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories."

"He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad."

In addition to his official experiences, he's lived his life as a global citizen, crossing language and cultural boundaries.

So, anyways, glad to be of service, you are now intellectually armed to fight the McCaindroids when they come gunning for him on the way to November.

[DJ13]

3. After the last 8 years, I no longer WANT a DC insider as President

Experience doesnt equate into the ability to make sound decisions.

[Colobo]

4. Obama's is handling a very tough issue with a lot of grace and intelligence

and you still claim he's not ready?

[emilyg]

50. It was a moving speech.

I' d like to hear his solutions.

[Infinite Hope]

5. He has more national experience than did Bill Clinton, Reagan, or Carter. n/t

[billbuckhead]

9. .......and by the same silly standard less than Hillary

[Kittycat]

15. But then by your logic - He has more legislative experience than HRC. AND...

As we've seen the past few days - her "experience" is far overstated and reaching.

[billbuckhead]

36. First lady is far more executive and foreign experience than community organizer

All that legislative experience voting "present".

[GarbagemanLB]

48. The papers Hillary just released prove otherwise.

[billbuckhead]

69. And how's that?

What did Hillary's opponent learn about foreign policy in the Chicago slums?

[Infinite Hope]

66. You're missing the point. (And I forgot to include Bush Jr.)

I wrote that in my separate thread on the issue. But anyway, my point wasn't that he has more national experience than Hillary. It was that he doesn't lack the national experience necessary to be president as he has more national experience than four of our five last presidents.

[Fresh_Start]

6. I agree with you

the problem is that based on what we saw in 2004....a US Senator or US Representative leaves deep footprints. The GOP made hay by criticizing individual Kerry votes. The longer someone is in COngress, the more there is to criticize. The last thing I want is a Congress where people chose not to vote because a vote might turn off some voting bloc they need for higher office.

[PM7nj]

8. Doesn't matter much...

Neither Obama or Hillary can say they are experienced compared to McCain, who has been in the Senate for a century. Experience isn't everything, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were two of the most experienced people in Washington..

[gravity]

He definitely has a firm grasp of this national political process

A black man does not become the front runner for president by accident. Obama knows what the hell he is doing.

[Mooney]

21. Exactly.

It's amazing to me that people are still underestimating him.

Ah well. Fuck 'em.

[rucky]

10. Bush in 2000 thought Africa was a country.

And couldn't find Pakistan on a map.

c'mon.

[Liberal Gramma]

12. And who do you see as his replacement?

I think he has shown us he has all the qualities a president should have. In the area of judgement and ethics, he stands high above his opponent. Hillary's argument that she has greater experience doesn't hold water with me. If I was married to a surgeon, would you consider me qualified to perform your gall bladder surgery?

[benddem]

13. well is experience is the criteria

Richardson, Dodd or Biden should be our candidate. Please don't tell me that Hillary has the experience. She was a corporate lawyer for 30 years and the wife. Sure she tried to get health care fixed but really botched that. Most of her other claimed experience has turned out to not be so much. Gerry Ferraro asked if Obama would be here if he wasn't black...would Hillary be here if her last name was Smith? The fact that she is using her husbands name as her experience is ludicrous. And she's made some pretty lousy votes for someone with all that experience.

[Barack_America]

14. Then vote for McCain if "experience" is what you cherish so dearly...

He supposedly has it over both of our candidates in spades. Too bad decades of Washington experience still didn't teach him the difference between Sunni and Shia.

[Adelante]

16. Obama is ready nt

[EFerrari]

17. I can't believe that people post these projections without any

awareness whatsoever. It's astounding.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[parasim]

19. I sure wouldn't compare Obama to Bush when it comes to experience.

Bush has plenty of experience. Experience in screwing up everything that he ever attempted.

Obama also has plenty of experience in succeeding (or at least having a positive impact) in the many endeavors he has taken on in his career.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. So are you saying that had GWB had more time to "study" he'd be a better President?

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, he's had eight years! He still sucks ass! In what parallel universe can you even compare Barack Obama to George W. Bush??

WTF is wrong with you?

[BlooInBloo]

24. Yah - like Clinton has SO MUCH national experience. (snarfle)..

.... The shit you guys make up is just amazing. Really guys. DUers slay me.

[democrattotheend]

25. There have been moments when I have felt the same way

Sometimes I wish he had waited, and I fear that he will never become president because he ran too soon. But a bigger part of me is glad he is running now, before he becomes just another jaded Washington hack. I work in Washington and I am fighting to hang onto my idealism, and I want a president who still shows a little bit of that same idealism, who still believes in what America can be. I had my doubts, but after yesterday I am convinced that he is ready. He showed grace under fire and he refused to compromise and throw a longtime friend under the bus for political expediency. Those are the characteristics I want in a president, and I am afraid that 4 or 8 more years in the Senate would ruin that.

[ginchinchili]

26. I think it's very dangerous to allow ourselves to believe that experience is bad.

It's a feel-good argument for an Obama supporter to make, but in reality it's a very bad standard to follow. Everyone seems to be ignoring my point about how inexperienced George W. Bush was, even with his governorship in Texas. I'm not saying experience is everything and that it should be the only factor, but it's a very important factor. If Obama had proven himself in some other significant way, in some way that clearly demonstrated that he could overcome his experience deficit, then it could work. But I just don't see it. He hadn't proven extraordinary courage in a war. He didn't work his way up out of the ghetto. He didn't build an empire from scratch. He didn't survive some extreme personal trauma. There has to be something more than his current resume, as impressive as it is. This is my opinion.

[Muttocracy]

49. I'm still unclear who you're supporting for those criteria

He hadn't proven extraordinary courage in a war. - McCain
He didn't work his way up out of the ghetto. - none of the remaining ones
He didn't build an empire from scratch. - not too fond of empire myself, and none of them
He didn't survive some extreme personal trauma. - I wouldn't claim to know their personal lives; MCain or Clinton based on this?
There has to be something more than his current resume, as impressive as it is. - You clearly DON'T think it's impressive.

[LulaMay]

27. It hasn't dawned on peole yet how unfornate, how bad this is.

[scheming daemons]

28. You couldn't be more wrong....

America needs someone like Barack Obama NOW.... not in 4 or 8 years.... RIGHT NOW.


We need to re-establish our credibility around the world that has been so damaged by Bush.

With McCain, the rest of the world sees "same old, same old".


With Clinton, the rest of the world sees "Meh... America preaches about democracy, but they're really an oligarchy. The same two families have ruled for two decades? Don't preach to US about democracy, America."


But if Obama wins... "Holy Shit! Look who the Americans made their president! Maybe all the things I've been told about America are not true after all. Maybe they ARE what we all should be striving to become."



EXPERIENCE is the least meaningful argument when selecting a President. The most "experienced" President in our history was also our worst.. James Buchanan. He was followed by one of our least experienced Presidents...who was one of our best... Abraham Lincoln.

Richard Nixon was IMMENSELY experienced.

Dick Cheney is full of experience.

Experience... with all we've seen over the decades, is a NEGATIVE.


The Presidency needs a new look, from someone who is NOT embedded in the culture of Washington.


Obama's lack of Washington experience is an enormous PLUS, not a minus.


Your #1 argument against Bush in 2000 shouldn't have been his lack of experience... it should have been his ideology. He surrounded himself with TONS of experience... Rumsfeld and Cheney are lacking in many areas, but experience wasn't one of them.


You are tone-deaf to what this country needs right now... the VERY last thing this country needs is more "experience". It's needs a fresh outlook.

[JeffR]

30. Your argument is heavily based on a serious logical flaw

Bush's performance as "president" has nothing to do with his inexperience. He's done just what he and the other members of his cabal have set out to do: destabilize the Middle East, undermine what passed for a social safety net in America, and make tons of money for a very small and very evil group of people. If you think presidential inexperience is at the heart of what's gone on in America for nearly 8 years, you're nowhere near as astute a person as I used to think you were when you posted some amazingly good advocacy pieces for Biden.

[mopinko]

31. is the sky blue on your planet?

just wondering.

[cottonseed]

32. Bush was an Idiot. His lack of experience was a non issue.

I don't believe in Hillary's experience on top of that. Also, it's a stupid way for her to frame herself as the "experience" candidate when the next one at bat is a guy who has 3 times the experience as her.

[greyghost]

37. Bush "is" an idiot.;)

[AZBlue]

35. Ignore this. It's the only desperate meme the Clinton campaign has left.

[PetraPooh]

39. Neither does Hillary, nor did Bill; get real!

[Usrename]

41. Bush's lack of experience?

:wtf:

He has one of the most experienced administations in the history of the country.

[FrenchieCat]

42. There are few who come around who are born to lead........

Obama is one of those.
Hillary, not so much. Her toughest decisions have been whether to stay with Bill and whether to vote for the Iraq War. I know one was a really bad decision, and the other one was a compromise.

[boppers]

52. lol Frenchie...

What's even sadder is that I don't know which decision is which.

[PetraPooh]

43. BTW if GWB's lack of experience was all that caused you to not want him,

then you prove your opinion isn't worth the time to listen to.

[guruoo]

44. Looks like we'd better start praying that we're both wrong.

Hope on a wing and a prayer.

[Muttocracy]

45. so are you voting for McCain or not voting?

'cause experience is no reason to favor Clinton over Obama.

The points you make apply just as well to Hillary:
She should have demonstrated patience, studying the national political process longer and more thoroughly, as well as gaining some international experience. Now she's made herself appear to be lacking in sound judgment, not to mention some questionable ethical considerations as well. At this point she would better serve herself, the Democratic Party and the Nation by gracefully bowing out of this primary race.

[Blondiegrrl]

46. If anything, Obama's response to the recent attempt at swiftboating

has demonstrated that he's more than ready to handle the job.

As for Bush -- his main problem wasn't lack of experience; it was (and still is) his immense arrogance, his bullying attitude, and his absolute refusal to listen to ANYONE who doesn't see things exactly his way. (i.e. "You're either with us, or with the terrorists.")

[tex-wyo-dem]

47. I apreciate your well written and thought-out post, however...

Your premise has little basis in fact and is frankly full of caca.

Personally, I think it's high time we had new, fresh blood in the oval office, someone not of the insider DC establishment. IMO it is a plus that Obama has spent as little time in Washington as he has, since those who have tend to lose touch with the real world outside of the beltway.

[backscatter712]

53. Thank you for your concern...

:eyes:

[BenDavid]

54. the only way I or any other hrc supporter will own this crap created

by obama, is he become the nominee and he gets his ass handed to him in november, in which he will.

[stillcool]

56. B.S.

Perhaps he doesn't measure up to your yard stick, but there are millions of people that would disagree with you.

[TML]

57. That's what advisors are for

As long as he doesn't select people with familiar names like Wolfowitz, Bolton, Rice, etc., he should be fine.

[johnnydrama]

58. it might be a major issue

If the other person in the Democratic race didn't have even less experience than he does.

[JoFerret]

60. Looks like we may now we stuck with him

The comedown for so many is going to be hard.... So many hopes. And the veering toward worship is a tad unsettling to say the least.

[indimuse]

61. Very well said !

K&R !!!


His 'judgement has been a huge issue for me from the beginning. Now it is apparent he should step away! Besides, this Rezko trial could really damage his run(even 100 innocent) and may have to testify, I don't see the RW MSM being very lenient in their coverage of this mess Obama is in the middle of. If you follow the Rezko story enough..you will notice Michell Obama's name keeps surfacing as well. Inevitably, she will be a few news stories.

I guess in the end..it comes down to our judgement...The Democratic Party's.

[Jennicut]

62. McCain has loads of "experience" and he is still pushing this crap of a war

He has been in politics since the late 70's. Elected in 1982...and has so little judgement that he thinks Iran is helping Al Qaeda. He repeated this as fact twice until Joe Loserman had to correct him. Lincoln did not start the civil war-the south was threatening to leave for a long time. If not for Lincoln the U.S. would have become two countries. Some think that would have been better but he did hold the country together. "A house divided cannot stand". Those were Lincoln's words to Douglas during the now famous Lincoln-Douglas debates. He was right-a house divided by the issue of slavery would eventually fall. Poor Obama, he actually decided to take on Hillary even though it wasn't his "turn". Bush had experience-running everything he touched into the ground. Obama was a sucessful community organizer and lawyer. Plus, isn't the American Dream supposed to be about anyone being able to step into power? Like Ratatouille, my daughter's favorite movie, the main premise is "Anyone can cook". Well, anyone should be able to become president. Not just old white men who have held power for 30 years yet know nothing about what people really want. I thought Hillary would realize this being a woman. Is there some sort of pattern that everyone who becomes president has to follow? Or should we elect people based on their ideas and how they would put those ideas in place?

[Arkansas Granny]

63. Your reservations are much the same as mine. His speech at the 2004 convention

was the first time I had ever heard of him and, like you, I was certain that I was watching the first black President of the US. I just didn't expect him to run for the office so soon. He is undoubtedly an inspirational speaker and the evidence of that is here on this board. After two terms of the Bush administration his message of hope and change resonate with many voters and that is understandable.

I think that what really bothers me most is that until recently his public focus has not been on issues and solutions and I rarely see any of his supporters on this board discuss issues, other than the fact that he was against the war in Iraq even before it started. It seems that we are in some sort of popularity contest for the nomination instead of a discussion on which candidate is best prepared to assume the office of President.

Hillary was not my first or even second choice, but now that we are down to a choice between these two candidates, I have chosen to support Hillary. I am aware that many argue that her experience is no greater than Obama's, but I disagree. I think that her years in the White House as First Lady have given her more insight into international affairs than many people give her credit for. I have seen her stand up to the RW smears for years without buckling under the pressure. She is strong, intelligent and has convinced me that she has the ability to lead this country. Obama may very well possess the same qualities, but the fact is, I don't know that.

That being said, I will vote for Obama if he is our eventual nominee as the stakes are too high to allow McCain to become our President.

[cali]

64. Experience does NOT equal competence. DUH.

Learn some history, genius. Some very experienced men were terrible presidents. And some "inexperienced" ones were great- think Lincoln who had considerably less experience that Obama. Of course ignorant little people don't know enough history to comment. They should educate themselves before opening their pieholes.

Obama is handling this fine. And he has enough experience- 11 years in elected office. Hilly has four more years in the U.S. Senate than Obama. That's it. Most of her time as first lady does NOT count. And she's run a shit campaign.

Nothing would benefit the dem party and the the country more than that loser Hilly than shutting down her filthy sleaze of a campaign down and bowing out. We know she can't do it gracefully, so just go Hilly.

[IsItJustMe]

65. I have no choice. I can not in good conscience vote for someone that pushes a Republican over a Dem

Obama or bust for me. It is what it is and this is where we are at.

[Raffi Ella]

68. excellent post. I could not agree more.

I look to the The Party Leaders as partly to blame for this fiasco.They've obviously encouraged him.I have to wonder what they were thinking and did they know about Wright...I'm a Democrat till the end but this has me wondering if people aren't right when they say the Dems are stupid.

We had this election won before Obama decided to run.Biden was my first choice because of his experience and expertise in foreign affairs.I continue to be disappointed that he isn't in the race but am satisfied with Hillary Clinton's experience and believe she has a fiercely Democratic Spirit and will fight for Us.

I'm not at all sure what kind of Democrat Obama is,couple that with his lack of experience and I just will never understand how the Party allowed this to happen.

The Super Delegates were brought into existence for just this reason though.So I still hold out the hope that Our Party will do the right thing and not allow Obama to take us down in the general.This is after all about winning the White House back,not The Obama's themselves.