John Ridley (sp?) was just on Morning Joe and gave Joe something to think about

[Coexist]

He described the understanding yet incredulity he feels when white people (even liberals) insist they can understand the black experience in America. How no one can, who isn't black.

When asked why Obama didn't just get up and walk out of the church, he listed many times that white people accepted subtle racism as "well, I don't agree, but what can you do?" and blacks don't like it, but they understand - and why can't whites understand that Obama wasn't going to leave this huge church. He said, "we're talking the south side of Chicago, there aren't many churches there to choose from."

At the end of the segment, Joe (at least) had a thoughtful look on his face, and when Mika said she made him angry, Joe cut back to him and said, "I'll call you later and we'll talk."

I think the Obama bashing is over for a little while at least, on Morning Joe.

I will post the video if I can find it.

[Saturday]

1. So now Obama had to stay at Wright's church because there....

aren't many churches on the south side of Chicago? ROTFLMAO Now I've heard it all.

[patrice]

2. I don't buy into that meme and I don't think Obama does either.

"X can't understand Y, because X isn't Y."

Perhaps my understanding isn't identical with that of someone who is different from me, but the whole idea that an identity results in some kind of mutually exclusive opposites is il-logical and absurd. We ARE alike in FUNDAMENTAL ways and that's enough for us to understand one another, if not 100%, at least enough to say I CAN know/feel what it is like to be you and you CAN know/feel what it is like to be me . . . that is IF I/you WANT to understand.

I think that whole meme "X can't understand Y, because X isn't Y, be it Whites and Blacks, males and females, Republicans and Democrats, Christians and Muslims . . . whatever is a cop-out, a way of relieving ourselves of the responsibilty of making an effort of some sort that may result in change. I also think this IS at least part of what Obama's speech was about.

[Skidmore]

4. I think the truth lies somewhere between.

Yes, we can all experience empathy at a fundamental human level for all beings. However, there is a lot of truth to the old maxim about "walking a mile in my shoes." Our understanding another person's reality is alwas imperfect. That aside, I agree with you heartily that the nation seems to look for excuses not to resolve its problems with race issues and many others. This is why I want to scream everytime I've heard RW mouthpieces on some of these programs sneer that "People don't really want to talk about race." Well, the time has come to force a conversation because there is so much that will not be resolved in this nation until that issue bears some resolution. The attitudes associated with race affect more than just the black and white communities but all communties in all of the hues of humanity under the sun. Prejudice knows all colors and none.

[patrice]

7. Given the almost un-imaginable organic complexity of who/what an

"individual" is, yes, the mile that you walked in and the shoes that you walked them in, result in a relatively different configuration of factors, but given also the fact that "shoes" ARE "shoes" and "miles" are "miles" there are similarities between these things, if there weren't "shoes" wouldn't be "shoes" and "miles" wouldn't be "miles" (sorry to belabor that metaphor, but it is a handy metaphor).

I see that we probably agree on what I'm saying here about similarities, but I also need to add about differences: though "shoes" and "miles" may in fact be similar resulting in similar effects, the probabilities that they are 100% identical are remote and even if they are 99.9999999...% similar, that little tiny .0000000...1% difference is not in-significant (we just assume it is in-significant because we think of ourselves as objects/nouns not events/verbs) and in certain situations (say, voting on something such as the IWR) that little tiny difference, being the ***ONLY*** difference there is, CAN make all of the difference in the world.

Solidarity Skidmore!

[Skidmore]

9. Geez, patrice.

That was way too much mileage before 10 a.m.

[patrice]

10. It's stuff I've been thinking about for a long time.

I also used to teach AP Psychology to high school seniors, some of whom were taking full load AP classes (they were THAT bright) and one of my favorite psych topics is neurophysiology and the biological basis of behavior.

[Orsino]

3. Saying "white people can't understand" may be as unhelpful...

...as too-quick assurances that we do "understand."

We should all strive for greater understanding, always.

[EffieBlack]

5. That's not what he said.

[Orsino]

8. Which isn't? n/t

[NNN0LHI]

6. "Joe" and every Repig I know have a fucking thoughtful look on their faces as they cut our throat

Don't fall for their crap.

And fuck "Joe" he is not our friend.

Don