Hillary's Right Wing Bible Group

[odelisk8]

Published on Thursday, March 20, 2008 by The Nation
Hillary’s Nasty Pastorate
by Barbara Ehrenreich

There’s a reason Hillary Clinton has remained relatively silent during the flap over intemperate remarks by Barack Obama’s former pastor, Jeremiah Wright. When it comes to unsavory religious affiliations, she’s a lot more vulnerable than Obama.

You can find all about it in a widely under-read article in the September 2007 issue of Mother Jones, in which Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet reported that “through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as “The “Fellowship,” also known as The Family. But it won’t be a secret much longer. Jeff Sharlet’s shocking exposé The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power will be published in May.

Sean Hannity has called Obama’s church a “cult,” but that term applies far more aptly to Clinton’s “Family,” which is organized into “cells”–their term–and operates sex-segregated group homes for young people in northern Virginia. In 2002, Sharlet joined The Family’s home for young men, forswearing sex, drugs and alcohol, and participating in endless discussions of Jesus and power. He wasn’t undercover; he used his own name and admitted to being a writer. But he wasn’t completely out of danger either. When he went outdoors one night to make a cell phone call, he was followed. He still gets calls from Family associates asking him to meet them in diners–alone.

The Family’s most visible activity is its blandly innocuous National Prayer Breakfast, held every February in Washington. But almost all its real work goes on behind the scenes–knitting together international networks of right-wing leaders, most of them ostensibly Christian. In the 1940s, The Family reached out to former and not-so-former Nazis, and its fascination with that exemplary leader, Adolf Hitler, has continued, along with ties to a whole bestiary of murderous thugs. As Sharlet reported in Harper’s in 2003:

During the 1960s the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most anti-Communist (and dictatorial) elements within Africa’s postcolonial leadership. The Brazilian dictator General Costa e Silva, with Family support, was overseeing regular fellowship groups for Latin American leaders, while, in Indonesia, General Suharto (whose tally of several hundred thousand “Communists” killed marks him as one of the century’s most murderous dictators) was presiding over a group of fifty Indonesian legislators. During the Reagan Administration the Family helped build friendships between the U.S. government and men such as Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, convicted by a Florida jury of the torture of thousands, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, himself an evangelical minister, who was linked to both the CIA and death squads before his own demise.

At the heart of The Family’s American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum. They get to use The Family’s spacious estate on the Potomac, The Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by The Family’s young women’s group. And, at The Family’s frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already powerful.



http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/20/7798/

[jody]

1. Hillary is a member of the United Methodist Church. Please prove the assertion UMC is a Right Wing

Church.

[AZBlue]

3. If you'd bothered to read the post, you'd see this is not about the church she attends,

but rather the prayer group she's a member of.

[jody]

4. Sorry you are wrong, the OP author changed the subject after I posted. It originally said "Right

Wing Church".

Have a nice day. :hi:

[catgirl]

7. How about right wing prayer group

Is that better? And powerful RW leaders, at that.

[catgirl]

8. K&R Scary stuff

Why it's not talked about more is beyond me.

[Laughing Mirror]

56. Because it's the rich white power base that belongs to that cult ... the "Family"

It's the Washington establishment, so it is completely acceptable.

[jody]

11. Your post suggests you are irreligious and aggressively oppose those who are religious.

Have a nice day. :hi:

[odelisk8]

15. nonsense

i agressively opppose hillary clinton.

period.

problem with that?

too bad.

[jody]

17. This thread is about HC's religion. If you hate HC, that's your problem. n/t

[odelisk8]

22. hate?

the only one to use the word hate here is you. i used the words right wing and oppose...but trust me, opposing hillary is not my problem...it's my pleasure.

[jody]

24. I used the word hate because IMO it was most descriptive of your feelings re HC. n/t

[odelisk8]

25. yes

but see...you dont know ME or my feelings...you are ignorant of those things...and yet you comment on them...and see, when you do that, you make yourself look foolish...and then, maybe, people think that hillary's supporters are foolish and that maybe only fools would support her...so, if you LOVE hillary, as i am sure you must, maybe you should make some efforts to represent yourself better on her behalf...and your own!

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[jody]

29. Welcome to DU with your hatred of HC. n/t

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

32. I see no reason to disagree with your astute observation. n/t

[catgirl]

51. Calling out newbies is against DU rules. Alerted.

[jody]

62. Have a nice day. n/t

[catgirl]

64. You're not clever. Just annoying (but that's your point, right?)

Have a nice phony day.

[odelisk8]

37. you

mean Barbara Ehrenreich is a troll? no, i think she's a journalist...and i am a registered democrat passing on information...everyone has a low post tally at some point...no no...i will tell you my position...i was originally an Edwards supporter...can't say i ever had much love for the clintons...but after SC i felt compelled to support Obama...i am not a huge fan of his either...but i do think that this is relevent information considering the fact that Mike Huckabee gave Obama more support during this incident than a fellow Democrat, HC...you know, the HC who supports McCain 100 yrs in Iraq before her fellow Democrat...yeah, her...i make no bones about it...i do not and will not EVER support HC...i will support a Democrat...

[dchill]

49. You don't sound as much like a Freeper...

as the ones calling you that. Not at all.
:hi:

[catgirl]

46. Your post is ridiculous.

I am not biased against anyone for their religious OR non-religious
beliefs, not that that is ANY of your business.

I do, however, question conservative prayer groups that mix with
politics, and religious groups that infringe upon people's rights.

YOU sound like you belong in the latter group. You also sound
very bitter. Perhaps you should seek help for it instead of belittling
people with your passive aggressive BS.

[odelisk8]

58. thanks

for the support...

[jody]

5. Dupe deleted. n/t

[merh]

9. the core beliefs she shares with those neocons

:scared:

[jody]

13. Which of HC's core religious beliefs do you oppose? n/t

[merh]

16. The ones she shares with David Coe and the neo-cons

Go do some reading, information is key, not just some blind loyalty based on some odd "shared" visions that truly aren't visions and definitely aren't shared.

[jody]

18. Your problem is you don't know which of HC's core religious beliefs you oppose. n/t

[merh]

20. Your problem is, you don't.

Go do some research. She has written about it, she admits to them, you just are ignorant of what Hillary really stands for.

And doesn't it bother you that Bill says that an election involving McCain and Hillary will be boring as hell because they like each other so and share a lot in common.

Neo-cons and neo-libs - the blending of the evils from both sides to perpetuate the caste system and to consolidate the wealth and power.

[jody]

21. Please cite ONE of HC's core religious beliefs with which you disagree. n/t

[merh]

27. You don't know of Hillary's core religous beliefs and you haven't read

her own words on the subject, that is laughable. Go do some reading, educate yourself.

It's laughable, the HRC machine and how it tries to turn the topic, force the hand. I'm educated, that's why I don't support her as the better of the two dems. You aren't that is why you support her.

you do your own research

[jody]

31. Since you can't cite just ONE of HC's core religious beliefs, I'll have to conclude you are just

full of hate for HC without cause.

[merh]

59. Nope, I don't hate

I hate the lies and I hate the connections she has, the folks she uses to get where she thinks she deserves. I hate the divisiveness she fosters and encourages and the likes of folks like you who don't know what she stands for - who don't know about her true core beliefs (or who know and don't care.

With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Your pathetic game of "you prove it first" is just that pathetic. Grow up and go educate yourself.

[jody]

61. LOL at your posts. Have a great day. n/t

[jody]

14. Dupe deleted. n/t

[UALRBSofL]

39. This is the prayer group that has the breakfast thing once a year

I thnk it is. Anyway, I remember John Edwards was hosting and/or gave opening remarks at one of the breakfast things. As far as Nazi stuff and all that it is a joke or should I say it has nothing to do with Clinton. However, I believe the Obama Camp should run it on MSNBC. LOL:rofl:

[crankychatter]

47. Why isn't this on CNN non stop?

OH, because they are so objective and respectful...

Of Jingoism, Fake Spirituality, gushing Fundamentalism, Fake Patriotism, RACISM and Islamophobia... etc etc

[crankychatter]

53. Is Pentecostal Fervor Repressed Sexual Energy?

The Fellowship is sexually segregated...

She must pray with the ladies...

I'm just wondering... do you think she keeps going back for a reason?

I mean since 1993?

There has to be a Twelve Step group for that.

I bet even Santorum hasn't been THAT faithful.

Is it like Internet Pornography Addiction?

[jakem]

2. creepy. as. hell.

[frazzled]

6. An article from The Atlantic in 2006 confirms this

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611/green-hillary

I'm sure they don't keep video, though.

Of the many realms of power on Capitol Hill, the least understood may be the lawmakers’ prayer group. The tradition of private worship in small, informal gatherings is one that stretches back for generations, as does a genuine tendency within them to transcend partisanship, though as with so much that is religiously oriented in Washington, the chief adherents are the more conservative Republicans.
Also see:

JMost of the prayer groups are informally affiliated with a secretive Christian organization called the Fellowship, established in the 1930s by a Methodist evangelist named Abraham Vereide, whose great hope was to preach the word of Jesus to political and business leaders throughout the world. Vereide believed that the best way to change the powerful was through discreet personal ministry, and over his lifetime he succeeded to a remarkable degree. The first Senate prayer group met over breakfast in 1943; a decade later one of its members, Senator Frank Carlson, persuaded Dwight Eisenhower to host a Presidential Prayer Breakfast, which has become a tradition.
"Everything I do carries political risk because nobody gets the scrutiny that I get," Hillary Clinton told me, finally.

"It's not like I have any margin for error whatsoever. I don't. Everybody else does, and I don't. And that's fine. That's just who I am, and that's what I live with."

Though it still sponsors what is now called the National Prayer Breakfast, the Fellowship scrupulously avoids publicity, as Vereide insisted it must. “If you want to help people, Jesus said, you don’t do your alms in public,” Douglas Coe, the group’s leader since the late 1960s, said in a rare interview several years ago.

Today, on Capitol Hill, as the old avenues of bipartisanship have gradually been blocked off by hardening ideology, the prayer groups have become cherished sanctuaries for their members—providing respite, however brief, from the cacophony of political Washington. Speaking about a group is strongly discouraged, and what transpires at meetings is strictly off the record. As a result, the groups provide an intimate setting in which members can share their faith without fear of being judged. “Once you take off the cloak of politics and look into a person’s soul, you find that you can establish a relationship that is enduring and deep and doesn’t let politics get in the way,” one longtime participant explained to me. “If you’re going to be consistent with the teachings of Jesus, it’s about forgiveness, reconciliation, and peace.” Many who come, he said, are surprised to wind up forming close friendships with colleagues who in any other setting would be considered political enemies.

You’re not supposed to think about lofty spiritual affairs in terms so temporal as their political importance. But among the prayer groups, one holds special status: a tight-knit gathering of about a dozen senators which still meets every Wednesday morning for prayer and discussion, led by Douglas Coe himself. Each week, someone starts the meeting by giving personal testimony, secure in the support of the audience. Once, Senator Dan Coats stood before the group and sang “Jesus Loves Me, This I Know.”

The roster of regular participants has included such notable conservative names as Brownback, Santorum, Nickles, Enzi, and Inhofe. Then, in 2001, just after the new class of senators was sworn in, another name was added to the list: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

One spring Wednesday, a few months into the term, Senator Sam Brownback’s turn came to lead the group, and he rose intending to talk about a recent cancer scare. But as he stood before his colleagues Brownback spotted Clinton, and was overcome with the impulse to change the subject of his testimony. “I came here today prepared to share about this experience in my life that has caused great suffering, the result of which has deepened my faith,” Brownback said, according to someone who watched the scene unfold. “But I’m overcome now with only one thought.” He confessed to having hated Clinton and having said derogatory things about her. Through God, he now recognized his sin. Then he turned to her and asked, “Mrs. Clinton, will you forgive me?” Clinton replied that she would, and that she appreciated the apology.

“It was an extraordinary moment,” the member told me.

[City Lights]

10. Hillary and her Fellowship deserve equal time on the tube. eom

[snappyturtle]

73. You betcha they do! I'd call it equal opportunity. I'd like to know more

about the tenants of "The Family".

[Fiendish Thingy]

12. k&r- creepy n/t

[noiretextatique]

19. both of them should just shut up about their professed religiosity

if they had, neither would be vulnerable on the subject.

[cbayer]

23. Hmmm, this is going to be a tough one.

Are all the Obama supporters who decried the Rev. Wright issue going to maintain some consistency and and decry this one? Or are they going to jump all over it?

Are all the Clinton supporters who said the Rev. Wright issue was legitimate going to maintain consistency and see this as legitimate? Or are they going to say it's a non-issue?

It will be interesting to see.

I'm betting that most will be total hypocrites. I'd put money on it.

We are being used and we better wake up.

[jody]

26. You're probably right unless BO supporters can come up with specific facts that HC condoned by her

silence when she was present as BO condoned Wright's hate talk by BO's silence when he was present.

[frazzled]

34. Try anti-gay and anti-abortion for starters ...

because that is what her compatriots in that group publicly proclaim. Prove to us that she ever, once, chastised them in the prayer group.

You can't.

Prove, while you're at it, that Obama has ever advocated for Black Separatism, hatred against whites, or called the United States the KKK. You can't. You are willing to impute to him the beliefs (taken out of context, of course) of his pastor ... but you are unwilling to impute the right-wing beliefs of Don Coe to Hillary. That doesn't make sense.

If you stand up and repudiate the Wright story, I would be happy to say, "well, Hillary was just being political--trying to show what a 'pal' she could be even to wingnuts." Until then, I'll just tar her with the same feathers with which she is apparently trying to convince the superdelegates to tar Obama with.

[jody]

42. RE abortion and LGBT, see below.

HC said "I am and always have been pro-choice, and that is not a right any of should take for granted. There are a number of forces at work in our society that would try to turn back the clock and undermine a woman’s right to chose, and must remain vigilant."

More HC re abortion at http://www.govote.com/Senate/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm

"Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Hillary Clinton scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard."

Source HC at http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/HillaryClinton.htm

On that topic, thte same cource said "Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard."

[frazzled]

45. Who cares what she says in public to get votes?

It's clear that she is secretly against gays and opposes abortion--because she remained in this anti-gay, anti-abortion prayer group for seven years. Why didn't she storm out in disgust, knowing what their opinions were?

Sorry, but if that's the argument for Obama, it's the argument for Hillary. And you can see how stupid it is--or can't you?

[jody]

63. You say HC "secretly against gays and opposes abortion" and I assume BO is secretly against whites?

Does that mean you refuse to vote for HC if she is the candidate for the Democratic Party?

[frazzled]

74. Boy, are you guys just pretending not to understand a "devil's advocate" argument?

I know it is said that the Clinton base consists of a large portion of less educated voters, but I certainly never thought they were represented here on DU.

I am saying Obama is accused of secretly believing in what Wright said in those clips, despite his long public record and his own well-documented statements. I was simply playing that same argument of guilt by association through the Hillary lens. Looks like you can't take it. Or you can't see how ridiculous the argument is in the first place.

Of course I don't think Hillary is anti-gay or anti-abortion. I'm saying she was associating for the last seven years, in a religious "Fellowship" with such people. I already stated my real belief that she did this for crassly political reasons. (For that alone, I think she should be chastised ... but she has had her problems, so I understand). But those criticizing Obama here truly seem to believe that the words and ideas of those around him should be tagged to him. I was playing "turnabout is fair play."

Get it?

[UALRBSofL]

65. Frazzled if you want to compare anti-gay people

We could start with Congressman Rev. James Meeks, a friend and campaign supporter of Obama's who is anti-gay, anti-abortion, whom worked with Obama on his campaign in Chicago. Rev Meeks preaches at the Baptist Church in Chicago with a congregation of 20,000 people where his sermons include anti-gay, anti-abortion themes. Of course the media hasn't been saying anything about him.

[jody]

70. Don't confuse BO supporters with facts, they'll drown you with their chants "Hope, Change, Blame".

[frazzled]

28. I think you're asking the wrong question

The toothpaste is already out of the tube on Obama--in fact, the media has squeezed it all over the damned place.

So the real question is: is there a double standard in examining the candidates' religious affiliation.

When we see weeks' worth of nonstop video and discussion of McCain's seeking out the endorsement of Rev. Hagee and calling Rev. Parsley his spiritual advisory, then I will be satisfied there is no double standard.

When the media spends a full week, 24/7, asking why Hillary voluntarily chose to involve hereself with (and I guess for 7 years has remained involved with) a secretive, right-wing religious prayer group that contains some of the Senate's most intolerant members, then I will be satisfied there is no double standard.

The other real issue is this: people, here and elsewhere, have used the words of Rev. Wright to insist that somehow this proves what Obama's "real" secret beliefs are. Can we use the words of Rev. Hagee or Don Coe to argue that their words represent the real, true secret beliefs of John McCain and Hillary Clinton.

Until you, sir or madame, stand up and say that Rev. Wright's words say nothing about Obama's beliefs or actions, then I will have to give to goose as well as gander, and proclaim that Hillary Clinton and Jim Inhofe share the same anti-gay, anti-abortion beliefs ... because she chose to associate with him.

[cbayer]

41. I think they are both stories are being used to damage the candidates

and the democratic party.

And I think we are tools being used to shoot ourselves in both feet.

My question was specifically aimed at DU posters. Will they be hypocrites or not? Will they assist those who would just love to see us destroy ourselves or will they take a stand against these kinds of tactics?

[frazzled]

48. Only one of these stories is being run 24/7 on all the media outlets

The other story is known by no one, has been discussed by no one besides a few posters here. So let's not confuse the issue.

[cbayer]

55. What the media does this is yet to be seen.

Several posters at DU have been pushing this story hard and are going to be really delighted to see this story coming more to the forefront.

IMO, and I could be wrong, the story hasn't played because it won't hold up. A quick google search will show that there are many, many people that participate in one part or another of this group, including Obama. There appears to be a core group with some loathsome philosophy. But there also appears to be many "sects" or sub-groups that don't share that philosophy and fulfill a different purpose.

I repeatedly took the stand that Rev. Wright's views could not and should not be interpreted as Obama's.

[NavyDavy]

36. and we allow people you know aren't going to vote Dem

no matter what come here and cause fighting amongst us Dem's, of course this is just my observation and opinion.....i am not attacking or talking about you cbayer just hit reply on your post, i was too lazy to scroll to the top of the page! : )

[cbayer]

43. Not a problem NavyDavy.

I agree with you. People are so intent on destroying one candidate or the other that they will allow themselves to be used as tools by outsiders whose sole intention is to disrupt and destroy any chance of a democratic candidate winning the presidency.

Shame on us.

[cali]

69. I actually don't have a big problem with Hillary on this

I think it's about politics. None of her policy stances reflect any undue influence. I do, however, have a BIG problem with Coe and The Fellowship. I wish she repudiated them but as long as she's not influenced policy wise, I don't see it as that big a deal.

[cbayer]

71. Good to hear.

Because you have some leadership around here.

It will be interesting to see how she responds if this rises up, but I would predict she would react in much the same way Obama did - distancing himself a bit, denouncing the parts of it with which he disagreed and making it a teaching moment. At least, i hope she would.

[Up2Late]

33. Oh! I have an even MORE "...secretive Capitol Hill group..." she's in, it's called the U.S. Senate!

They have things called "committees" and they "caucus" behind closed doors most of the time. :scared:

Come on, ALL organized religions can and probably have been labeled a "cult" at one time or another, just like the one I grew up in, The Catholic Church.:scared:

But here's a tip for all you if you want to be taken seriously, don't throw around the name Adolf Hitler or Nazi if you want to be taken seriously, it totally discredits everything you are trying to say as it show you (and this author) have lost all perspective. I'm really disappointed to see Barbara go down that road.

And as a member of a "famous" family who dozens of conspiracy theorists wrongly claim that people in my family "control the world," I find "guilt by association" articles like this very offensive.

[arundhatiroyfan]

35. Kick

N/T

[Stephanie]

38. More info >

From an earlier thread on the Mother Jones article >
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071798

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics
September 1, 2007

---snip---

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

***

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

***

These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as her support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.

Liberal rabbi Michael Lerner, whose "politics of meaning" Clinton made famous in a speech early in her White House tenure, sees the senator's ambivalence as both more and less than calculated opportunism. He believes she has genuine sympathy for liberal causes—rights for women, gays, immigrants—but often will not follow through. "There is something in her that pushes her toward caring about others, as long as there's no price to pay. But in politics, there is a price to pay."

[DURHAM D]

40. So she prays with a group of people who hate her? So what?

If you want to know something about Hillary's faith google cbn.com. Find the page for a guy named Brody - I think David is his first name. Look for an interview she did last summer with him. You can listen to the interview - it is 30 minutes long. No video - just audio.

She is very candid in the interview and it shows her incredible intelligence. Obama supporters won't like it but it is from her mouth and not from fools who have no basic ability to even understand complexities of faith.

It is very informative if you have the ability to understand the discussion.

[crankychatter]

44. Does Clinton speak in "tongues?"

I'd like to SEE that.

[catgirl]

52. I think she does. LOL

She's always confusing people and herself with the facts. Sorry,
couldn't resist.

[DURHAM D]

60. No - she is a Methodist.

Do you know the differences between fundamentalist, evangelical, Pentecostal, and mainstream protestant faiths?

[crankychatter]

50. Saved, Sanctified and Filled with the Holy Ghost

Has Clinton been "slain in the spirit?"

You know, where bennie ho ho puts his hands on your forehead and you fall out in spiritual apoplexy?

[truebrit71]

54. "The Family" already on pre-order at Amazon...

...wow..the more I read about this woman the more I find that is deeply, deeply disturbing...

[Vinca]

57. Isn't their mission to integrate government and religion into one?

That's a more scary than Jeremiah Wright if you ask me.

[sloppyjoe25s]

66. i'll read that one...

nice

[AllentownJake]

67. STOP STOP STOP

Pat Robertson, Focus on the Family, Hagee that guy from Texas who thinks the Catholics are the "whore of babylon"......

We need to stop hitting each other below the belt and focus on John Sydney McCain...remember that guy, the guy who doesn't know that Al Quaeda and Iran are enemies and wants to invade Iran? Remember that guy who thinks women should have no reproductive rights,

[AllentownJake]

68. STOP STOP STOP

Pat Robertson, Focus on the Family, Hagee that guy from Texas who thinks the Catholics are the "whore of babylon"......

We need to stop hitting each other below the belt and focus on John Sydney McCain...remember that guy, the guy who doesn't know that Al Quaeda and Iran are enemies and wants to invade Iran? Remember that guy who thinks women should have no reproductive rights,

[Bonobo]

72. "THE FAMILY"= creepy, old white cult.

[NOLALady]

75. This is scary.

I hope the nomination is resolved before that book is published.

[Scurrilous]

76. K & R

:thumbsup: