My comments on the Rev. Wright affair.

[mmonk]

First, I'm a white male over 50 years old (not saying exactly my age). I grew up in a small North Carolina town. One day, myself and two other friends decided we would go eat at a local cafe. One of my friends was black. When we got inside, we were told that myself and the other white friend could sit down and eat but my black friend had to stand at the counter to eat. So in the end, all three of us ordered and stood at the counter and ate.

To understand Rev. Wright and his anger is to have lived through that kind of treatment for you see, that was an EVERYDAY occurrence in those days. So when my fellow democrats continue to exploit this issue along with the republicans and the media, I'm disappointed and am not really sure what to think anymore. Needless to say, I'm not happy with it. How it will affect me going forth I'm not sure.

[democrattotheend]

1. I'm pretty disappointed too

I would expect Republicans to just repeat talking points without giving it any thought, but it's disappointing to see Democrats do the same thing.

[Zhade]

43. To be fair, they're more clintocrats who don't really support democracy.

If they did, they'd understand why seating FL and MI would be cheating.

[DearAbby]

2. I am disgusted as well .................n/t

[RoadRage]

3. I agree. To see a republican like Huckabee even understand this..

while Clinton supporters don't, or at least appear not to because it's in the best interest of their candidate is somewhat infuriating.. and frankly shows that we have just as much racism on the left side of the fence as we do on the right in this country. I just think dem's try to hide it more.

Any Clinton supporter who comes out and says, "I thought Obama's speech was great. I think the Wright thing is overblown, he said some stupid things - but probably has a reason to say them. Even so, I still support Clinton for X,Y,Z reason" - well that Clinton supporter is totally legit as far as i'm concerned, and I love 'em like a fellow democrat.

But, to the small portion of supporters who think that Wright & the KKK are one and the same on opposite ends of the spectrum, and think that Obama's speech was pathetic and just another "excuse"... well i'm just appaled. Any dem who watched that speech should have been awed. Awed that a politician had the audacity to be frank, honest and say things that no one else has publicly ever said.

That's all from me!

[JimGinPA]

8. Great Post - Lot Of Truth

K&R the OP

[roguevalley]

34. not enough people remember Jim Crow. If a few of the blowhards

here were black and living then, when you could be put in prison for smiling at a white woman, where you wanted to serve your country in the military and only got menial jobs, where no matter how smart or talented you were, you were never given as much opportunity as the dumbest white man, then maybe they would get what he had to say. Bitterness over living like that, over the Emmett Tills and the race baiting and have ZERO opportunity to do anything about it can mark you. Mr. Wright has forgotten that people can change. Unfortunately, those blow-harding the loudest are as stuck in the past as he is.

[grantcart]

4. When more people are better informed about Kristallnacht than the 'Tulsa Race Riots'

you have to have a certain bitterness in one's mouth - I certainly do.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

12. or the genocide in Rwanda

[Window]

31. Amen.

I've been black for 60+ years. I was born and grew up in the North. My first brush with extreme, deadly racism was Emmett Till. We had and still have relatives in the South, but my mother, who came north at the age of nine, refused to let us go visit because of racism. I remember stories from my great grandparents about relatives being lynched. I have devoured every bit of black history I could get my hands on. Forty acres and a mule. Yeah, right.

Okay. Enough. It angers me and takes me to places I don't want to go right now.

Yes, I have a very bitter taste in my mouth.


Peace:thumbsup:

[Fredda Weinberg]

5. So that's the beginning and end? Your experience and that's final?

Then I'm not suprised you're lost ... but at your age, you should remember the Black Panther movement. Did you find them threatening? They wanted you to ...

[ellacott]

9. So you were afraid of the Black Panthers also

Wow

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. Afraid? Why do you think my oldest brother joined the JDL?

I only faced verbal assaults on the streets for being different. They beat him up.

You had the Latin Kings ... everyone was into ethnic power. So when I see Wright supporters here, I wish I could laugh, but it's too pitiful.

[ellacott]

21. All Panthers weren't like that

I can understand why you have a biased view but that's not the full picture of the Panthers.

[Fredda Weinberg]

33. *I* have a biased view? You mean different from yours, don't you?

You won't let yourself pre-judge Panthers, but claim I'm biased ... what a hoot!

[ellacott]

54. I think we're a little too sensitive

I said I understood. Bias is not always a negative word. You have a view that is reflected from your personal experience. I never once said that I won't pre-judge the Panthers. I did say they weren't ALL like that.

We've got to stop being so sensitive. It stifles communication.

[Hutzpa]

11. Wow!!

here is someone with no conscience, its hard to understand love when you
did not get that from your parents, your job is to proliferate the rest
into thinking your way.

I guess someone forget to share some love with you then, good to see how
deep rooted the Democratic party is with bigots.

Hello Mr and Mrs Ferraro Randell...:hi:

[Fredda Weinberg]

18. I was there for each of my parents, who passed away peacefully at home

I don't expect an American to understand ... we put our old folks in homes.

Conscience? How could my father, who liberated his homeland w/the Russians after WW II, talk to me about conscience ... you pitiful anonymous critic.

And my mother, who chose him to father her family? Loves him eternally, past where DUers like you can't hurt her again. She forgave all of you for Bev Harris ... I'm not so obliged.

[2rth2pwr]

20. Your post pretty much sums up why we will not ever have an honest discussion

on or about race. People get labeled as bigots or racists at the drop of a hat.

Nobody sane wants to play in that game.

[immoderate]

13. Not my experience...

I'm white and I was teaching in Brownsville in Brooklyn when MLK was assassinated. That led to the Brownsville Riots. The head of the local Black Panthers worked in the school, and he was a buddy of mine. When the buildings around us were burning, and the teachers had to be escorted out of the building, my friend was there, and he flipped me the peace sign. I always felt safer in that neighborhood when the Black Panthers were around.

--IMM

[Fredda Weinberg]

15. Firing the Jewish teachers led to the riots. I was hit in the head after

MLK's shooting ... I know the difference.

Safe? From the Black Panthers? Now I know what side you were on.

[immoderate]

35. Yes, you do.

The "firings" happened two years before. Why would people riot because Jewish teachers were fired?

--IMM

[Fredda Weinberg]

39. Because my 'hood often erupted ... welcome to my America

STUDENT BANDS DISRUPT AT LEAST 12 CITY SCHOOLS; Youths Clash With Police And Teachers Are Beaten
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By PETER KIHSS

December 3, 1968, Tuesday

Page 1, 1929 words

Hundreds of students, throwing rocks and bottles, clashed with angry, charging policemen late yesterday in the Ocean Hill-Brownsville area of Brooklyn at the end of a day of disorders and demonstrations in at least 12 schools in four boroughs.

BROOKLYN BESET BY TROUBLE AGAIN; Brownsville Negroes Pelt Police 2 Fires Break Out
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September 7, 1967, Thursday

Page 25, 743 words

Sporadic incidents of bottle throwing erupted again last night in the tense Brownsville section of Brooklyn.


Residents, Not City, Are Called Keys to Cleaner Streets; A Survey Finds Local Pride Often Low Residents, Not City, Are Called Keys to Cleaner Streets
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By JAMES M. MARKHAM

October 18, 1971, Monday

Page 39, 1876 words

Most residents of Queens and Staten Island get their garbage collected twice a week. Residents of Manhattan get theirs collected five or six times a week -- and most slum areas have six weekly collections most of the year, and nine in the summer months.

[immoderate]

40. I was still in college then.

I remember the decentralization battles. I had no thought about being a teacher at the time. (I was worried about getting drafted.) It was a mess. How do you explain to the black community that their teachers should all be Jewish?

--IMM

[Fredda Weinberg]

48. What black community? It was supposed to be my community too

Brownsville didn't belong to the African Americans ... Jews lived there once upon a time. As the neighborhood changed, the board constituted and made illegal demands. These were eventually oveturned, but how do you tell anyone to follow civil service rules and union agreements?

No, you never thought what it was like to be the Jew ... who does?

[immoderate]

55. I guess I didn't think what it would be like to be the Jew.

Because I am one.

--IMM

[Fredda Weinberg]

56. So? Just being a Jew does't make you think. n/t

[immoderate]

58. How true.

--IMM

[Zhade]

46. Clearly, he just wanted to lull you into a false sense of security before killing you.

I mean, per our resident racist, that's all the BPP was about.

She needs to learn some fucking history.

[mmonk]

24. I remember. Was I scared of the Black Panthers?

No.

[Window]

32. Did the KKK bother you.

[Fredda Weinberg]

36. In Brooklyn? No. In Florida, yes. I'm Jewish n/t

[Zhade]

45. So you dismiss others' experience of racism?

You personify the problem being discussed in this thread - you dismiss racism because it suits your candidate.

Fucking reprehensible.

[Fredda Weinberg]

51. Dismiss it? I set up computer learning centers for disadvantaged kids

Most were African American ... that's just the way it is. Sheesh, you picked the wrong DUer, oh anonymous critic.

[Solon]

52. Nah, I think he picked on the RIGHT DUer this time...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=192734#192784

[Texas Hill Country]

6. it pisses me off to, but as obama says, this wont be solved in one election cycle, and right now

i think dems just need to win.

[Fresh_Start]

7. I don't think anyone is denying racism

For me at least, the concept that my priest would stand in front of the congregation and call down God's condemnation on millions of people is completely alien.

I think it is even blasphemy

I realize there are white church's that condemn people but I don't embrace those churches beliefs. Those beliefs are not the beliefs in my church

I continue to believe that religion and government should be kept far apart. I regret greatly that all of the candidates in their desire to solicit RW approval have violated what I felt to be critical separation of church and state.

[noiretextatique]

17. the black church has always been a radical institution

it's no coincidence that many leaders of the civil rights movement were ministers. during that era and before, much of what came from the pulpit of black churches was considered a threat to white society.

[mmonk]

25. The double standard out there is real.

I do not belong to a southern white protestant church but as a Catholic growing up around them, I've heard some of their hateful words about me going to hell. Where are the endless loops of their preachers speaking hate on TV?

[Fresh_Start]

27. I continue to regret the interjection of religion into politics

it thought it was terrible when the RW did it.
I think it is terrible when the democrats do it.

Obama claimed higher religious values which unite us not divide us, then you examine his church teachings and see the black agenda and condemnation of white America. It doesn't fit the rhetoric. Remember that Obama chose this religion when he was an adult: he wasn't schooled in religion from the time he was too young to have a choice.

I regret all hateful devisive religions and teachings by your church, my church, his church, any church. I frequently think that religion has had a terrible contribution to world history.

In my view, two wrongs don't cancel either other: they just increase the total wrongs.

[mmonk]

29. I regret it too. But I don't get what people are trying in infer

on Obama. I ate at that cafe more than that one time. I would hate if people would assume I shared the view of the owner.

[Zhade]

47. Look upthread - it's being dismissed as you type.

Thank you for your last couple of sentences, this atheist really appreciates them!

[boppers]

50. NYCALIZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GejUlWnp3Hk

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. The bad thing is the Rev Wright thing is being used by Obama's opponents

scurrilous and this is basically to paint Obama very black reinforcing the white fear of a black man being president, unpatriotic, against the war etc.

Well I guess you knew that already!

[superkia]

14. You are right and it shouldnt be a political issue, it should be a...

"people" issue. Every time I see someone post about the race issue to make their candidate look better, it just tells me a little about who they are as a person. Sometimes, people don't realize how much they show who they are inside, from a chip on their shoulder.

[butterfly77]

19. We haven't seen anything yet...

watch as Slannity and O'lielly bring on every person of mixed race,black republiCONS or blacks that hate other blacks namely, Larry ELder,Armstrong williams, jesse peterson,Juan Williams,Shelby Steele and a host of others. I am listening to Michael Medved and he has on Steele right now who is suppose to be explaining all facets of the black american which he can't do because, even though some may not believe this all blacks don't think the same on every issue as I am sure neither do other races.

[waiting for hope]

22. Your experience sounds very much

like what John Edwards has described as growing up in North Carolina. I respect Edwards for taking the Poverty Tour that he did last July, I respect Edwards for bringing up solutions and the will to end poverty, I respect Edwards for trying to bridge the racial divide by providing policy platforms to address the cultural/social issues that face this country. I'm disappointed as well, that a rich white man couldn't address poverty, a white man couldn't discuss the racial divide and be given credibility. I took him seriously for like your situation, I believe his experiences to be true.

[mmonk]

38. Yes. John knows what I'm talking about and had similar experiences.

North Carolina has come a long way and those of us who lived through the time here also know about race baiting in political campaigns whereby it was subtle like in many helms ads that ran here.

[frazzled]

23. After Obama is destroyed by this guilt by association ...

and after all is safely in the past---all the pundits (and the most shocked, shocked of our posters here, probably, as well) will be saying: wasn't that awful, wasn't it shameful. We really need to have a talk about race in this country. Hillary might even appoint a commission to study it and the report will get printed in some dank basement of the government. Bet on it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Thanks mmonk.

I have a child who is close to finishing up high school and I suspect that her school did a lousy job of explaining the repression that black Americans went through as recently as the 60s. Not too far from here a kid put a noose in a tree that grew in a black family's house and they did find him and he is facing reprimand. But, my child couldn't understand why he was getting so much media attention because the paper said he was a disturbed child and, this is what shocked me, she said she didn't understand why black people took lynching personally. She really didn't know the history and, as usual, wouldn't listen to me when I tried to explain it. She thought I was exaggerating.

It's like denying the Holocaust. I suspect her school just didn't see to it to explain that entire era in our history.

[mmonk]

28. Yes. It's almost like people want to pretend it

didn't happen or that it is past history and so racism doesn't exist anyore, so no anger is justified.

[surfermaw]

30. You are 50, let me add 30 years, I remember ...read inside

Riding a school bus to school in the 40's now remember we had the great depression, our school was brick but in each room we had a pot bellied stove to heat and outside bathrooms, but the Black kids had to walk to school, some that were almost falling down, and I don't even want to guess how they were heated, I can see that today. Another story, we had a town, I guess all in the south had the same in their town, one part was for Whites and one for Blacks, however I saw many Blacks in our part of town. They had the best cleaners and shoe repair, however my mom let this little White girl go to the cleaners for her and to the shoe shop. I was never afraid to go into the part of town considered Black, however my grandfather had a farm and rented land and had manyBlack families helping him, and they were always nice and likeable , so my assocition with Blacks was always plesant, and still is today.

Another thing why is wrong for Obama pastors, while the religious right churchs have caused this mess we are in today with Bush ...by the way of telling their members how to vote.

[mmonk]

37. That's a very good story.

All were having or living the same experiences. Thanks for the post. In answer to your last question, I have no answer except I guess what is considered acceptable in our society at this time.

[Bread and Circus]

41. Thank you. What I say is that we need to stand together and not back down and you did that!

[Zhade]

42. Thanks for that.

Still have your quote in my sig - it's still a brilliant summation of the Iraq issue.

[mmonk]

59. Thanks so much.

[laureloak]

44. So staying angry and making others angry solves everything.

That's what so stupid about defending the "anger". It festers and grows because imaginations run wild - everything becomes a racial putdown - and the anger and self pity grows and grows - and you teach it to your kids so they can grow up angry - your life becomes centered around your persecution theory - all the while you're blind to the opportunities and goodness that's all around you because you can't enjoy life - you're just too damn angry.

BTW, I am 57 years old and live in rural NC and I never ever experienced anything close to your story.

[Zhade]

49. "persecution theory" - yeah, the victims are responsible for the injuries they suffered.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[boppers]

53. Want context?

Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw

[Time for change]

57. Very good point

I think that exploiting the Wright affair for political gain by Obama's opponents is contemptable. Personally, I feel that Wright said a lot of things that needed to be said.

But even if one believes that his speech was needlessly inflammatory (which I don't), to use it to pound Obama is a ridiculous and cynical ploy. Using George Bush's actions to impugn McCain, who has given great political support for 8 years, is much more reasonable than criticizing Obama because of his association with Wright, to whom Obama has given no political support.