Seriously, Barack. Clean Coal?

[jgraz]

Oh crap, he had to say it in his speech today. Clean fucking coal.

Anybody who wonders why my sig line still has him at 80% should check out the 13:30 mark in this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6ztgD1d4fL8


Progressives, once we get this guy into the White House, we've got some serious work to do.

[Juche]

1. Whats wrong with clean coal

What is wrong with clean coal exactly? Assuming it doens't leak and kill everyone in a 10 mile radius.

[karynnj]

24. Many of the Senators with good environmental records are

behind a proposal to test several different methods of carbon capture and sequestration. There are two possibilities - they will find one or more technical solutions to both of these problems or they will rule out the most promising possibilities. If it is the later, then we really will not have a viable clean coal process.

If we do, it may be one of the biggest contributions to controlling global warming we can make. The US and China both have extensive coal reserves. They are building new plants at a frightening rate. If we solve this and can retrofit old power plants we could lower emissions there as much as here. That is there cheap fuel source and they will continue to use it - so this could be a solution.

I would not bet against technology - especially when some of the top scientists have proposals.

[BuyingThyme]

2. Being against coal is like being for NAFTA in some regions.

[Texas Hill Country]

3. hell, he almost voted for John Roberts SCOTUS appt till a staffer told him not to...

i have some serious questions about judgement.

[cali]

4. So the fuck what?

Idiotic. Russ Feingold and Pat Leahy DID vote for Roberts, and they're ten times the progressives of hillypoo- or Obama.

[jlake]

7. Do you honestly think Russ Feingold is more progressive than HRC?

And the problem is that many believe Obama is to the left of Kucinich.....not sure why, but they do see him that way.

[mattclearing]

12. How deluded can you be?

Of course Feingold is more progressive than HRC. He voted against the Patriot Act. She voted for the war.

[jgraz]

21. If that's the *ignored* I think it is, they're not deluded

They're a dedicated shit-stirrer who has no business on this site.

[mattclearing]

22. I don't use the ignore list.

Although GD-P tests that decision vigorously, I must admit.

[jgraz]

23. Some people never EVER post a single word of value

Why should I waste my time on that? It's like having a spam filter.

[mattclearing]

25. I suppose. But occasionally people surprise you. I like the surprise.

[karynnj]

26. I think you're right - I have an ignore list of two - that's one

[Wilber_Stool]

33. On my list too....n/t

[cali]

34. He's way to the left of HRC

and so is Leahy. Hell, HRC is not a progressive. I don't think Obama is either, for that matter. But it's laughable to compare HRC to the real progressives and liberals in the Senate. She's squarely in the middle. That's where you can always find a Clinton.

[azmouse]

5. At least Obama is intelligent and we have good raw material to work with.

Unlike the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

[jgraz]

6. Hell, I still think he's a great candidate and he gave a great speech today

But sometime he reminds me why I was a Kucinich and then an Edwards supporter.

[virtualobserver]

8. yeah, I winced too.

But he will grow in the job.

[monmouth]

9. Farmers say clean coal is a much better option than using "food products"

that cost more to produce into fuel. Wheat is rotting in the fields.

[jgraz]

10. It's also a better option than burning puppies for fuel

Just because we can find stupider ways to generate power doesn't make it a good idea.

[KittyWampus]

17. Saying you will totally scrap Coal or Ethanol is political suicide for any candidate

just the way it is.

[jgraz]

28. We're going to have to do it in the near future if we want to survive

That's also the way it is.

[karynnj]

27. Not to mention that it often takes substantial fertilizer to grow the plants for fuel

some of which finds its way to the streams.

[RichardRay]

11. Wyoming is gonna have a problem with some of you...

Since we're sitting on a humongous lot of coal, have several university departments researching carbon sequestration and other 'clean coal' alternatives, and have a state economy that will pretty much die a horrid and quick death without coal. Yes, we also have wind, and the sun, but coal is what we can get at right now. Gov Dave (Wyoming's Dem governor) has already set up the framework to manage carbon sequestration as an element of licensing clean coal power production plants, and we've got several pilot plants in process to demonstrate that, yes, it can work.

Corn, sugar cane and soybean biofuels are a stop gap at best; they take food producing arable land out of production. Switch grass is better, it can grow in places where food crops wither. Getting any of that off the ground is going to take decades, and we need interim measures. Coal is abundant and easy to get to - we need to find a way to use it while we get to the Promised Land. And, just to stick my head directly into the brush shredder - it may also have to include (his voice drops to a whisper) nuclear generation plants.

If someone has statistics that show how we can get along without at least passing through those choices, I'd love to see them; I've not found anything.

[jgraz]

13. We have to explore many options. But energy policy should not be used as welfare.

If the Wyoming economy will be hurt by abandoning coal, then we need to prepare for other industries to take up the slack.

Nobody seemed to mind us gutting our manufacturing base so corporations could make $$ through outsourcing, but making sensible decisions about energy policy are suddenly held hostage my areas of the country with outdated economic bases. How does that make sense?

[RichardRay]

35. We've been doing that..

moving away from extractive industries every year. I, for one, willbe glad to see it gone. I think it is a transitional phase that we'll have to go through. At the same time Wyoming is looking into clean coal we're also a leader in wind generation. Our big issue is the ability to move the power to the markets. There is a serious shortage of transmission capability from the places where the resource exists to the places where it's consumed: power lines, natural gas pipelines, railroads. With only 450,000 people in the start we don't have much of a local market and we need to be able to move the value to the folks who want it. We're trying to avoid becoming a 'Third World State'.

[madrchsod]

31. i watch the coal trains on the up going through my town

four or more times a day...i don`t know how much is out there but these trains have never stopped in years...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. sell that to everyone who lives in the NE where acid rain has killed all our lakes

from the coal plants in the Ohio Valley

[light catcher]

15. yeah, that stinks

makes me cringe too, but he's still my guy.

[KittyWampus]

16. IMO, "Clean" Coat is an absolute must IN THE NEAR FUTURE to keep our economy going

until we can move wholly onto Green Technology.

What I personally do not like is Nuclear.

That's my main disagreement with Obama.

[high density]

18. If it can temporarily be used as a transition between Middle Eastern Oil

and something better, it sounds good to me. Plug-in electric hybrid autos and etc will be useless until we change our power grid onto something that isn't coming from the same wells as our gasoline and diesel fuel. We poo-poo on too many alternatives in this country. We can't build wind turbines because they destroy the view. We can't build nuclear plants because we're supposed to believe it's dangerous and nobody knows what to do with the waste other than dump it in Nevada. We can't build hydrodams because it hurts the fish. I mean we need to move here, this oil addiction is killing our nation's economy.

[better tomorrow]

19. clean coal isn't as bad as MERCURY in the new lightbulbs....did you hear

on NBC tonight that if you break one of the new compact flourescent bulbs that you spill mercury all over? Man oh man....don't ever break them. One lady did and they wanted to charge her 2,000 dollars to clean it up....it is toxic waste...

We might as well go back to kerosene...

[chocome]

20. February 27, Hillary Clinton Touts Clean Coal...( welcome to hillary politicsObama)

In her continuing efforts to be an environmentally attractive candidate for the globalwarming aware crowd, Hillary Clinton toured a clean-coal facility in upstate New York.

As part of her tour, she pledged to wean the US from foreign oil dependency, and as Senator will be introducing a bill in the near future — doubtless in as showy a fashion as possible.

She touts clean coal technology, among others, to combat globalwarming. The US has a lot of coal, although mining coal is frequently dangerous and has long-term health hazards for miners.

Clinton called for more efficient use of electricity and natural gas, expanded use of wind and solar energy, new biofuels, and expansion of technology such as that being refined at Huntley that removes and captures toxic emissions from coal.

http://global-warming-awareness.org/2007/02/27/hillary-clinton-touts-clean-coal/

[CreekDog]

29. as long as West Virginia is in the union, expect this

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

30. illinois has more coal than god but it`s high sulfur.

illinois has put millions into research into trying to find clean technology to use this resource. obama is from illinois so it`s logical (politically) that he would back someway to use this resource safely.

[Johnny__Motown]

32. America is married to coal. We have far to much to assume it will never be used.

I agree, saying Clean Coal is like saying Clean Mud. It is never clean, just less dirty.



Pushing for the least destructive way to use coal is the best thing we can possibly do. Nothing else is reasonable or viable.


The real question is how much of our energy needs can be supplies by solar and wind tech. If coal provides a large percentage of our power it is worse than if it supplies a smaller amount.