As a "typical white person" who does not share Obama's grandmother's reaction to black people....

[hiaasenrocks]

perhaps Obama and his grandmother should have a sit-down and hash out their problems.

The funniest part of what Obama said today was that it makes no sense, in the context of the point he was trying to make.

He's describing the "typical white person's" negative reaction to a black person, but he starts off by saying that it requires no "racial animosity."

Sorry, but that makes no sense. The racists (like Obama's grandmother) must have some type of racial animosity in order to have the reaction that she has (or had in the past).

Aside from Obama's obvious racially-charged comment (which some will deny, of course, and you can have at it) this is just another example of how this guy says something that sounds profound, but really amounts to nothing.

[phrenzy]

1. So...

You have honestly have never caught yourself feeling uneasy walking down a street at night toward a black person?

[JuniperLea]

3. No, honestly, I have not

I've never feared skin color, not in all my life.

[phrenzy]

6. I didn't ask you if you "feared skin color"

I said have you ever caught yourself feeling weary about a black person while walking on a dark street? Simple question.

[clydefrand]

26. I'll answer that. I feel no more weary of a black person

while walking down a dark street than I do of any other color person. Being weary depends on where the street is, what activities are taking place, the sights and sounds, etc.


I'm a white 67 year-old female. I'm not afraid of a black person man or woman. I smile and speak to them as I would any other color person. BUT I'm smart enough not to invite trouble by placing myself in a less than desirable place alone. Aren't you and others on here equally cautious?

[hiaasenrocks]

32. Oh, come on. Just admit it. You're a racist or a bigot.

That's what some of these posters want us to say. And since they have already decided that we're racist, if we don't just admit it, then we're liars.

See how it works?

:)

[JuniperLea]

39. Ok, I'll bite...

I have feared many people of many different colors walking down the street at night. Some people look threatening. I don't see the need to assign a color to this conversation.

[hiaasenrocks]

9. I haven't. My parents didn't raise me to be racist.

[phrenzy]

11. So, feeling that emotion makes a person racist then?

Is that your contention?

Again, I said FEELING that emotion - not ACTING on that emotion.

[hiaasenrocks]

14. Yes, that is my contention. Your thoughts, while not illegal or subject to

sanction, of course, can be racist. Obama himself is telling us that his grandmother felt that way because of the race of the person on the street, isn't he?

[Barack_America]

2. Really? Must I hate everything I am fearful of?

I thought some distinction could be made between the emotions.

Just come out with it and admit that you don't like being called "typical". Should he have used different language? Sure. But that's what context is for. The context of the expression and the slight pause he made after saying it should tell you that he meant no harm by it.

But I'm sure that won't stop right-wingers and Democrats who admire their tactics from running with it.

[JuniperLea]

5. It's the slipping out that counts... not the hesitation to catch yourself

Whatever naturally flows from your lips is what counts.

[knixphan]

7. bingo.

[hiaasenrocks]

13. LOL. Some people will excuse anything.

I was raised to abhor racism (and I was raised in the South) so I hate hearing racist whites and I hate hearing speeches like the ones Obama's pastor delivered, and I hate when anyone, of any color, refers to members of another race as "typical." If you accept that, then you have the racial problems that Obama was trying to get at, but bumbled his way into another problem.

[Barack_America]

20. Don't we always talk on DU about how whites are "typical" and will, therefore vote...

...as a block for Hillary?

Have there not been at least 50 threads on this very topic?

So which is it? Are whites "typical" or no?

[hiaasenrocks]

23. I don't talk that way.

Do you? If so, why do you talk about races as if they are a monolith?

[stellanoir]

4. You missed his point entirely.

Yeah she's 84 and it's totally unfair to call her a racist.

Are you in your 80's?

My mum is one of the sweetest women in the world.

When I was a kid she's make remarks about uppity ______________ (a group of immigrants from a Mediterranean country).

It drove me nuts.

They were generally really hard working people and have for the most part done well for themselves and many were and still are my friends.

My mum was the product of social stereotypes under which she was raised.

I corrected her every time and now she's very open minded.

A racist wouldn't have put that much love into a multi racial child. They would have insisted they be orphaned if not worse.

Consider getting a grip.

He never called her a racist. She was merely a product of her times.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. This is a classic Obama supporter explaining what Obama really meant post!

Including the obligatory "open your eyes" & "get a grip" shitbird advice too!

[Cooley Hurd]

15. And here is the classic Clinton supporter showing faux outrage...

Shitbird, indeed!:eyes:

[stellanoir]

22. I'm merely saying I that I experienced something very similar with someone I adore

who was raised in very different times.

Don't call me a "classic Obama" supporter when there is probably no such thing and you don't even know me.

Have a nice evening.

[hiaasenrocks]

18. You're excusing racism. That's all there is to it.

Racism is morally wrong, and always has been. There's no generational free pass on the moral aspect of racism. Sorry.

[stellanoir]

36. I love and honor people of all other ethnicities and always have.

I don't believe his gram was a racist or she never would have accepted him in the first place.

But the programming 50-60 years ago was far different.

I honor my elders regardless of their stupid and often unenlightened biases.

I remember having a BF who was to the manor born. He reported to me that his elderly aunts would run to the tube whenever "Sanford and Son" was on. They used to enthusiastically say, "Let's watch the Blacks" in sincerely excited anticipation. They loved that show.

Redd Fox was a total hoot. They saw and appreciated that. How that could be construed as remotely racist is far beyond me.

[hiaasenrocks]

46. That's twice now that you have referred to some kind of

generational free pass, as though there are no moral truths that span all time, such as: Slavery is wrong.

Unless you'd like to apply the generational free pass to slave owners and traders. Go ahead.

[JuniperLea]

53. Maybe we should forgive McCain for using the fucked up term...

Gook?

No excuses for racism. There are none, and there should never be any allowed!

[stellanoir]

59. Slavery is wrong

Corporate slavery is no better. Nor is it prison industrial complex.

I'll give our elder generations a free pass. I was taught to respect my elders. One of my mum's friends watches Faux News all the time and drives me nutz with the crap she says.

My dinky colony was founded on freedom of religion. Yet there were also some of the biggest slave traders here. They founded Brown University.

No I do not allow them a free pass and that is an idiotic assertion.

Barack's gram was not a slave owner or a slave trader. The comparison is absurd.

She loved him that's what mattered, really, though she may have said some really dumb things. Who hasn't?

[hiaasenrocks]

60. Why are you saying it is idiotic to assert that you are giving a free pass

when you said: "I'll give our elder generations a free pass."

:shrug:

[stellanoir]

62. I'll give some of them a pass when my heart strings are attached to one or two

and feel empathy when someone else feels the same thing. It's not like these little old ladies are war criminals and profiteers who presume total impunity or anything.

Prejudice exists in this country. I just feel like it's better to choose our battles carefully.

Attacking our elders won't help. Educating them will.

That is all.

[JuniperLea]

50. I believe you are right...

Which is why she should have never been used as an example in this context.

[JuniperLea]

49. Amen!

Tell it to the judge the next time some kid kills another because of the color of his skin.


Bullshit.


We cannot start making up excuses for racism, or we will set the entire cause on rewind and end up 20 years or more behind!

[JuniperLea]

47. There is no excusing racism, period...

You can say more people of another generation were or are racist than those in another generation, but it doesn't make them any less racist or excuse them for being racist.

We can't go around excusing people for being racist. We can't go around making excuses for racist words or behavior. I can see it now... a hate crime is committed and the defense attorney says, your honor, we must excuse this person! It's not their fault! It is because of how they were raised! It's because of the generation to which they belong!

You know what the judge would rightfully say?

Bullshit.

[againes654]

67. While I agree with much of your post, I take exception to one thing

"A racist wouldn't have put that much love into a multi racial child."

My grandfather was very racist. He was 92 when he passed last year. Before my biracial child was born, he told me she would "never be welcome in his house because she had his blood in her." He loved my daughter, and went to countless links to help her once she was born, and for the rest of his life. He loved her, but he was still as racist and bigoted as before she was born.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5150229

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. So you're saying Obama's grandmother is unusual?

Is that what you're trying to say?

[hiaasenrocks]

19. Yes.

Obama's grandmother is not the "typical white person" anymore than Louis Farrakhan is a "typical black person."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. So you're saying his grandmother is like Louis Farrakhan?

Tell us more.

[hiaasenrocks]

27. OK.

It appears you have nothing but "So you're saying" posts about something I didn't say.

Do you have anything of substance to add here? Let's see...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Do you have anything of substance?

Please tell.

[hiaasenrocks]

40. Bye bye, troll.

I'm willing to talk to anyone who raises points, as others in this thread have done. You have nothing. Please enjoy my short ignore list.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. It's against the rules to call people trolls.

Also a little hypocritical, given you're comparing Obama's grandmother to Louis Farrakhan.

[Barack_America]

25. Lol. You don't know very many elderly Midwestern white folks, do you?

Aging midwestern white folks are "typically" distrustful/fearful of African Americans. And yes, that includes my own parents and grandparents.

[hiaasenrocks]

29. What are Midwestern blacks like?

Do you have a profile for them, too?

You shouldn't, but I'm interested to find out.

[Barack_America]

41. Oh so just because I related to you the experience of my family I am "profiling"?

Okay. Now I see how you roll. Sorry, I'm not going to play your game.

[hiaasenrocks]

43. No, not necessarily that.

It was more about the "Midwestern white folks" comment. So you're limiting that to a small sample -- just your family? You didn't mean that in any larger context. Right?

[Cooley Hurd]

12. Are you 80-something?

If not, you cannot claim to know a THING about what she feels...:thumbsdown:

What's equally ironic is that many Senator Clinton supporters cried foul because Senator Obama brought his grandmother into the debate, yet here is one DOING THE SAME!:eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

21. Ah, another generational free pass.

Would you argue that the people who owned slaves were just doing what they know?

Please explain how far you want to take this.

[Cooley Hurd]

31. As far as you want - it's your disgraceful thread...

:thumbsdown:

[hiaasenrocks]

34. So you won't answer the question or explain your position.

Great. Thanks.

[Cooley Hurd]

45. To answer your flamebaiting, bullshit question...

...as a historian, I cannot practice revisionist history on those who were not raised after the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's.

My mother used the N-word. So did my Grandmother. They were raised in a different era than myself. Do I hate them or love them any less? Of course not. Their life-experiences were different from mine.

[hiaasenrocks]

48. Would you argue that the people who owned slaves were just doing what they know?

[Cooley Hurd]

54. I cannot answer that because I didn't live back then...

...however, with the benefit of hindsight, I can say, from 2008, that it was wrong.

Nice try...:eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

56. So you can't answer it...

but you did answer it.

That's all I was curious about. Thanks.

[Cooley Hurd]

57. I DID answer your question...

:eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

58. I know.

I was just pointing out that you answered it after saying you couldn't answer it. Just found that amusing.

Glad we agree though. ;)

[Barack_America]

33. Understanding is not a "free pass". It's understanding.

Understanding something does not prevent you from changing something, in fact it empowers you to do so. It's actually very hard to influence something you don't understand.

Do you have any proof that Obama never attempted to influence his grandmothers fearfulness of African Americans?

[hiaasenrocks]

38. Do you give that same understanding to slave owners?

How about not just the owners but the people who transported slaves, and killed many in the process.

Tell us about your understanding of these people.

Thanks in advance.

[maxsolomon]

16. "racists" are not the same as "bigots"

obama's white grandmother is a BIGOT. so were every one of my grandparents. it is NOT limited to black/white relations. as recent as 10 years ago, I had an Irish BIGOT from Boston explain to me his intense dislike of Italians. I had no idea. I've heard Romanian Americans disparage Hungarian Americans.

back in Cincinnati, i had white male friends who had the crap kicked out of them by gangs of larking black teenagers in the summer. just for being white in the wrong neighborhood. are they now "racists" for being wary of black youth? no, they're PREDJUDICED. perhaps even to the point of BIGOTRY, but i reject the notion that BIGOTED thought is the same as:

"Racism is prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that race is the primary factor determining human traits and abilities. Racism includes the belief that genetic or inherited differences produce the inherent superiority or inferiority of one race over another."

http://www.adl.org/children_holocaust/more_resources.asp

EVERYONE has predjudices. EVERYONE.

NOT everyone that has predjucice is a RACIST.

[Little Star]

17. My mother in-law was always saying those damn catholics!

My husband and I were married by a JP, she didn't realize I was catholic. I felt bad for her and tried to make a joke out of it when she found out about me. She felt persecuted by catholics in her native country.

[Beregond2]

28. "Typical"

Not at all. A person can harbor unconscious fears and attitudes based on race, while having no conscious racial animosity. My mother is exactly that way. She has all kinds of racist attitudes that come out in her speech occasionally, but loves her half-black granddaughter with a passion, and is an Obama supporter. When I sometimes point these things out, she is shocked that I would think she is in any way racist.

This is the kind of person Obama was describing, and it is absolutely typical of white people of her generation, and of conservative white people of any generation.

Stop jumping on every syllable to try to twist Obama's intent, which is clear. You are only making a fool of yourself.

[hiaasenrocks]

30. Remember Obama's speech....

"JUST WORDS?!"

I guess words don't mean so much after all.

Thanks anyway.

[Barack_America]

44. That's your reply to that thoughtful post?

Too bad. You had the chance there to show your argument had some substance.

[hiaasenrocks]

51. Did you read the post?

I was replying to the posters urging to "stop jumping on every syllable."

First, I haven't been jumping on every syllable. Not even every word. Until, of course, Obama himself spoke those words today.

Secondly, don't words mean something? Isn't that a major part of Obama's campaign? He said so himself, didn't he?

[burythehatchet]

37. I hope you do a good job of hiding your true nature when you go about your day

because your ugly goes right to the bone

[Zhade]

52. False. He's talking about the subset of white persons who have a negative reaction.

Not all white persons.

You fail (like clinton).

[hiaasenrocks]

55. Where did he say that?

Before you answer, you might want to re-read what he said and have a dictionary handy.

[hiaasenrocks]

61. I guess you have no answer. Why? Because he didn't say that. Gotta run. Thanks for trying, though.

[Toasterlad]

63. "You Keep Using That Word. I Don't Think It Means What You Think It Means"

You should look up "animosity" in the dictionary.

[housewolf]

64. Yeah, and you're probably not 80 or 90 years old either, or grew up taught to fear black people

Look, the Civil Rights movement only happened about 50 years ago. It changed many, many things and acceptance and tolerance of people of other races has increased thousands-of-fold.

But those white people who were born prior to 1960, particularly in areas where they weren't many black people, WERE in fact taught to fear blacks.

What Obama said about this isn't racists - it's HISTORY. Those days were very different from these days.

Yeah, right - it was wrong to teach people to fear blacks. But they didn't know any better at that time. We as a country didn't become conscious of how wrong it was until the civil rights era. It's just wrong to call people of another era racists when they didn't know any better. Particularly someone who's daughter married a black man!

You're talking nonsense.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[againes654]

66. That is wonderful,

that you don't have that issue, but how can you say, "Obama and his grandmother should have a sit-down and hash out their problems". You fail to understand, that the problem was not between Obama and his grandmother, it was between his grandmother, and her past.

How can you possibly say it sounds profound, but amounts to nothing???? Nothing? A historical speech on race relations in this country, and that amounts to nothing, because YOU don't fear black people on the street at night????

Please, give me a break.

[ecstatic]

68. why should I believe you when you make race baiting posts like this?

You're deliberately taking his words out of context.

[pointsoflight]

69. Wow, you're really out of touch.