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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:31 AM
Original message
I've reached a decision today.
It was this morning before all the hullabaloo about Passportgate erupted. When the presidential race started I initially payed no attention. I was too burned out after spending a year canvassing swing voters to get them to vote for labor friendly candidates. As Iowa approached I got more interested and did what I did in 2004, that is, pick my top 3. In 04 they were Dean, Edwards, Kucinich. This year was tougher it was a tossup between Edwards and Obama and Biden made my distant third.

I want to point out that out of all the candidates running Hillary was dead last on my list. I knew most democrats liked her as indicated by the polls, but I could never trust her. To me she is a cold, self-interested, and calculating politician. Even with that I resigned myself to saying that she would most likely be the nominee no matter who I liked. I decided that being the case on principle that I would vote for her in November but as far as volunteering went I would just stay home. I must point out that I spent 2 solid months volunteering on the Kerry campaign day in and day out. I wasn't crazy about him but I went in every day. The only time I wasn't volunteering I was at work and I even got in trouble at work for prioritizing the campaign over my job. But if Hillary is the nominee I will not leave the couch for a minute.

That was the plan, until today. After Jeremiah Wright or what should be referred to as Dean Scream part deux, If people are going to let an opportunity to transform our democracy pass by again I will not help them do so. If people want 8 more years of spin and half truths out of 1 of the same 2 families thats been running this country for 20 years, so be it. I won't be holding the shovel digging this country's grave with everyone else. I pass my shovel along. I HAVE DECIDED I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON IN THE GENERAL ELECTION IF SHE IS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

For me now a Pittsburgher for 10 years and a Pennsylvanian for 25, April 22nd IS the presidential election. If after that my only choices are McCain and Hillary, then I've already lost anyway. And to be quite honest, so has everybody else, whether they realize it or not.
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ossman Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now pass it forward. Get 5 people to vote BO! Thanks!
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Already have.
Been helping out with the voter reg push here in Pittsburgh.
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ossman Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. hows it going?
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Great.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 01:41 AM by stratomagi
People are excited about this one. I want to point out that while the volunteers for Obama here are a diverse crowd I found it interesting that most of the Obama organizers at U. of Pitt on the day I went were white females.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Obama better be good
If he ever does what Clinton did, it'll be all over but the crying. Unlike Bill, he'll never get away with it.

Because unlike old Slick Willy (slimier than a boiled peanut)... Obama is married to a dynamic Black Woman that will have his ass in derision.

:-)
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
63. Interesting that you use a Limbaugh/GOP/freeperism for the last Democratic president.
That just speaks VOLUMES about you. And it's not good.

Bake
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anonymeme Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Another Freakin' I Changed to Obama Sham Post, Now Have 5 Friends Clone It, Personalize It & Post It
Another Freakin' I Changed to Obama Sham Post, Now Have 5 Friends Clone It, Personalize It & Post It AGAIN.

You really need some new writers, only a royal rube would have trouble picking these fake testimonials out.

They all sound the same and that's because they are. They're all the same lying BS!
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. LOL! Bitter much???
:rofl:
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. That's the "Liar Liar, Pants on Fire" Defense
Brilliant

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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. When "I am RUBBER You are GLUE" won't work
yup
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mythyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
68. I missed it.... what did Ignore say? jk, i could care less.....
:yoiks:
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. That's exactly what it is.
:thumbsup:
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. Your Candidates Pastor is going to Prison for Sexually Assaulting a Child
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 05:15 AM by crankychatter
Mine just thinks the government sucks.

http://www.uticaod.com/homepage/x1637676857

so there
:-P

The Clinton level...
irrationally rolling in slime, false allegations and guilt by association.

"liar liar pants on fire..."

roflmmfao
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
58. STOP!!! That's the TOWN of Clinton, not the person. You got it way wrong and should delete!!
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
40. Wow, your hysterical red text has me completely convinced. Here's some more colorful text for ya
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
81. You must not have read the post. The OPer was always b/w Obama and Edwards.
The only thing that's changed is the degree of distrust and dislike for Sen. Clinton.

It's a common story, really.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I can't say you'll be alone n/t
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40ozDonkey Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. You recognized Hillary's campaign strategy...
Her idea of making herself "more electable" is to sway Republicans and Independants into kneejerk hatred towards Obama, hopefully as much as they kneejerk hate her.

So, if you don't win at the swim meet, don't try harder or practice for next time. Shit in the pool.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I originally had a line in the OP
about knee jerk patriots that are going all ape shit over the pastors "God damn America" sermon but totally gave a pass on something substantive, like when we were being told Iraq had WMD's. I think the critical thinking would've made too many heads explode at the time.

I didn't want to go off on too many tangents however.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. keep up your great work
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. I am with you - It is truly something I never thought I would come to - but HRC & Bill have done it
to themselves. I am sorry to think that Bill's buy-in to Dubai and the Saudi's millions and Vin Gupta's 3 million and free trips to the Clinton's and use of his Jet and trial that his backers brought against him for all the favors, let alone the trial in Nov. '08 for Paul v. Clinton in CA. All this and NAFTA, the Communications Act of 1996 that Bill signed, Murdoch's support of HRC, and other reasons like the way HRC wanted to take the MI votes after Obama wasn't even on the ballot. Yep, they did it to themselves!

And yet we haven't heard the MSM talking heads on any of that have we?

:nopity:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. yer funny
:rofl:
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Um, so what does the Wright controversy have to do with Hillary?!?
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. You missed the point...
To me voting for Hillary over Obama on the basis of Wright is an opportunity squandered. Let me ask you this. Why didn't she run in 04? I'll tell you why, she voted for the war. She made her bed and didn't want to shit in it.

Like I said. Cold. Calculating. Politician.
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. No, she didn't run in 2004 because she had promised her NY constituents that she would not run for
President before serving a full term in the Senate. Oh, and if you really believe that Obama isn't a politician like all the rest well, I don't know what to say to you. Also, the cold and calculating thing is so tired. Besides, if she really is as calculating as you say, wouldn't she make sure not to be seen as cold?
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yeah she had to say that in order to get elected
Do you think NY residents would've been okay with someone just openly saying, you know i'm just using you all as a crutch on my way back to the White House. And anyway this was in 2000 when she thought Gore would be president so if that had been the case promise or no she couldn't have run against president Gore in 04. Reguardless, in 04 THE COUNTRY desperately needed to get rid of Bush, he was taking this country to the shitter, as we in the future are aware of now. Hillary couldn't run not because she didn't complete a term, I'm pretty sure the constituency of NY would've forgiven her in the case of Bush, but because she threw her chips in with Bush on the war.

I bet next you're going to tell me Hillary was really critical of NAFTA while helping her husband promote it because thats what she said in Ohio.

I think Obama is running DESPITE only having 4 years experience because this country can't wait 4 more years to change course. (admittedly sounding talking pointy)

And as far as being cold and calculating, yeah i think she would try to not be seen as cold, but just like with Dick Cheney, theres some things you can't fake.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
42. Let's see...
> Um, so what does the Wright controversy have to do with Hillary?!?

Let's see:

o She's peddling the controversy to the superdelegates as
an argument for why they should vote for her, and

o Wright was good enough to twice be invited to the Clinton
White House but is now some kind of scum she'd scrape off
her boot.

o McCain is defending Obama on this issue but Clinton is
using it as an attack against Obama.

Tesha
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New Dawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R, I will not vote for Clinton either.
If I would vote for Clinton then I would have only myself to blame when she decides to illegally invade Iran.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. Blah blah blah echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber.
I reached a decision a long time ago.... anyone who thinks that Barack Obama is worth an ounce of salt more than Clinton is a dupe. There's hardly a hair's breath between them policywise and both are lifestyle politicians, i.e. liars Clinton is a veteran triangulator and Obama is a hollow vessel created by a Chicago politician who wanted to create a political superstar. This place has pushed out the DK voters, the Edwards voters, and now even the Clinton voters. Progressives are unwanted in any party in America. When a Republican crosses over it's like the heavens break open and the sorry son of a bitch is welcomed with the trumpets of the angels. When a progressive complains, they're told that their vote doesn't matter. And at this point, frankly, your vote doesn't matter because there aren't any candidates who even bear the semblance of a progressive candidate. You can pretend that Barack Obama is an anti-war progressive all you want. It's not going to make it true. The reality is: Clinton or Obama, you're equally fucked. McCain: you're slightly more fucked, but not much.

Newsflash #1: this country ain't gonna get set right by voting or not-voting. It's going to be close enough with either candidate that the Republicans can spin it to McCain if they want to, anyhow. Frankly, if the right wing machine has been cheating and rigging elections for the past 8 years, why would they stop this particular cycle? They've already smeared Clinton to high heaven. Now it's Obama's turn and they're having their fun. You folks think every attack against Obama is coming from Clinton and every attack on Clinton is coming from the Right ... or maybe it's TRUE! (OMG!1!) But Obama's always the victim, isn't he? Newsflash #2: Obama's a dirty politician. Clinton's a dirty politician. They're both pulling any strings behind the scenes that they can. (Notice how Edwards hasn't endorsed either candidate...If Obama is such a strong progressive, why hasn't he bothered to help him. The answer: Obama and Clinton are identical.) But the RW smear machine keeps a-chuggin. It assassinated Clinton and now, from what I hear, it's moved on to non-stop Obama-bashing. Suddenly McCain is winning in the polls. Are you surprised? Come on. Let's get realistic here. All the choices are bad. All the choices mean big military budgets, bad trade agreements, more global neoliberal/neoconservative crap. You've basically already lost. Everybody's lost "whether you realize it or not"
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. Don't CANDY COAT it man - Quit Holding Back
you're a hoot

so, who do I shoot?
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. "Buy a bullet and rent a gun"
A quote from the movie Vegas Vacation. Very funny stuff.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. Right on. This post is a nugget of gold found in a pile of shit. n/t
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. She won't be the nominee. She's furious that Obama won't offer the VP slot.
Her campaign is now just psychological extortion for the VP position. There is no logical explanation for her continuing what she can not win.

Obama will not now offer her that place on the ticket. Bill and Hillary went too far.

Obama would never, ever let Mark Penn, Terry McAuliffe or James Carville and the vile woman he sleeps with near his precious, lobbyist-free campaign.

stratomagi, you won't have to worry about not voting for Hillary in the GE. She will not be our nominee.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. And now Richardson endorsed Obama.
Maybe I can stop being so goth for a while. :D
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Any evidence of that?
I mean... I have MY theories about why...

but they're just that, educated guesses
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my3boyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
38. Ironically if she had not chosen to go after
him personally, he might have selected her if he thought it would bring the party together. However, I'm sure he sees now that there is no way he would be able to trust her. Especially after she said McCain was more qualified to be president than he was. That is the last straw. You can't choose someone as your running mate when they have that little respect for you. It is one thing to have differences on policy. It is quite another to question a person's character. There is no way they will ever be on a ticket together.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. Ah, but there IS a rational explanation.
If Obama gets the nomination and her sabotage is sufficient to keep him from getting elected in the General, Hillary can come back in 2012 and run on "I told you he was unelectable..."

She doesn't want a VP slot. She's already played second fiddle to one president, she's not about to do it again. this is why she goes on about Obama being unable to beat McCain in the general.

Really? My mama could beat "McSame" in a general election. Unless she got backstabbed by one of her own.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. In addition I forgot to mention
that if the scenario plays out as mentioned in the OP, I WILL vote in November, and most likely (unless theres a crazy huge write in campaign for Obama) I will write in John Edwards.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. Another Yinzer for Obama! Wooohoooo!
What neighborhood are you in and how's the outlook? I'm in exile right now, but I hope Pittsburgh is able to come though for the NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. BARACK OBAMA!
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Bloomfield
We're doing voter reg now so I can't tell how this neighborhood is doing since we haven't done the door to door endorsements. Lots of Obama yard signs in Shadyside though. I'm hoping not to just canvass this area but reach further out into the surrounding counties. Thats what I did when I canvassed for the AFL-CIO. Its tougher turf outside the city, but its gotta be done.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Ohh, I used to live on Joliet way up by the Pleasure Bar.
I still have friends in the area that I like to have a drink with at Teabag's. There are a lot of college kids in Friendship now, that could be promising ground for Obama. Good luck and thanks for your work for the cause.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yeah I live by Silkys on Liberty
funny how in this town you can tell people where you live by what bar you're closest to. Thanks for the kind words.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I've never been to the Bloomfield Silky's, but my brother and I ran up a $60 tab of $6 pitchers...
one summer night at the Sq Hill Silky's. Hot weather + Bar Shuffleboard - good AC =Big thirst.


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FunkyLeprechaun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. I'm the same way
In January before the Iowa caucuses (I thought Hillary would win this), I would vote for her, but not as excitedly as voting for Obama.

As the campaign rolls on, her actions are turning me off her. I don't know if I want to stand in front of that voting booth and vote for her. It makes it all the easier living in the UK, I might just skip requesting an absentee ballot. IF Obama is the nominee, I will make arrangements with my parents to have me home so I could vote in person.

That's how excited I am, I'm ready to go over 3,000 miles just to participate in-person. To vote for Obama. I cannot see myself doing that for Clinton. Not now.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. That would be one heck of a vote!
Around here, no matter where I've moved I've never been more than 2 blocks from my polling site. When you get your "I Voted" sticker you should put it on your plane ticket and frame it. :D
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
28. fucking a.
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InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
37. My feelings exactly.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
41. Not to be old-fashioned, but have you looked at her excellent record?
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House :

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

Hillary Clinton has been fighting for the rights of children for special needs for decades. In her first job out of law school working for the Children's Defense Fund, she conducted research that led to Congress passing the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975, the landmark bill mandating that all children with disabilities be educated in the public school system. later, she helped improve the education of children with special needs by working to reauthorize the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act. In 2005, she sponsored an amendment to increase funding for the act by $4 billion dollars. She also cosponsored the Personal Excellence for Children with Disabilities Act, a bill that promised to help schools recruit and retain new special education teachers, and better prepare general education teachers and staff to work with children with special needs.

Most recently, she has called for greatly expanded funding to the National Institute for Health to investigate treatments for children with disabilities. And she has put forth a comprehensive and detailed plan to help children and families affected by autism, with numerous elements that correspond very closely to what families in the autism community have been demanding for years.

some points on her legal career:

1969 Truehaft, Walker and Bernstein in Oakland, one of the most liberal law firms in the country. They defended the Panthers.
1970 Yale University - city legal services, provided free legal advice for the poor.
1971 Staff attorney, Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts
1971 Carnegie Council on Children, legal consultant.
1974 Impeachment Inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.
1974 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville School of Law - One of only two female faculty members.
1976 Worked pro bono on child advocacy.
1978 Jimmy Carter appoints Clinton to the board of the Legal Services Corporation.


Education

Wellesley College where she majored in political science.
Yale Law School, where she served on the Board of Editors of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action.

Political Activist Experience

Pragmatic Liberal

Always fascinated by radicalism, she wrote her senior thesis on a great radical organizer of poor people, Saul Alinsky of Chicago. Though when she was offered a job by Alinsky, after she wrote about him, and she turned him down--because she didn't think he was effective enough. She said to her boyfriend at that timebe in politics you have to win. And it didn't look to her like Alinsky was winning enough of his battles. She came to question his methodology and concluded in her thesis that larger government programs and funding were needed, not just community action at the grass roots.

She was the commencement speaker at Wellesley in 1969, chosen by her fellow students--there had never been a student commencement speaker there before. The scheduled speaker was Sen. Edward Brooke of Massachusetts, who Hillary had campaigned for, a Republican, the first black to be a member of the U.S. Senate in a hundred years. In his remarks he was patronizing, Hillary thought. He seemed to defend the Nixon administration's conduct of the war, and didn't mention the wrenching events of 68. When he finished, Hillary got up and extemporaneously excoriated him. As a result of that speech, she was featured in Life magazine as exemplary of this new generation of student leaders. They ran a picture of her in pedal pushers and her Coke-bottle glasses. That article made her well known in the student movement in the U.S.

She monitored the Black Panther trial in New Haven. She monitored the trial to see if there were any abuses of the rights of the Panthers on trial, and helped schedule the monitors. Her reports were turned over to the ACLU.

1971 Senator Walter Mondale's subcommittee on migrant workers, researching migrant problems in housing, sanitation, health and education.

Political Campaign Experience

1964 In high school, volunteered for Republican candidate Barry Goldwater.
1968 New Hampshire, Eugene McCarthy primary challenge to LBJ.
1972 Campaigned in the western states for 1972 Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern
1976 Jimmy Carter Presidential race, served as an Indiana campaign coordinator.

The Clinton Campaigns (Bill Clinton has stated Hillary played pivotal roles in his campaigns)

1974 Bill Clinton's Congressional race (L)
1976 Bill Clinton's Attorney General race (W)
1978 Bill Clinton's Governor's Race (W)
1980 Bill Clinton's Governor's Race (L)
1982 Bill Clinton's Governor's Race (W)
1992 Bill Clinton's Presidential Race (W)
1996 Bill Clinton's Presidential Race (W)
2000 Hillary Clinton's Senate Campaign (W)
2006 Hillary Clinton's Senate Campaign (W)

Legal Experience

1969 Truehaft, Walker and Bernstein in Oakland, one of the most liberal law firms in the country. They defended the Panthers.
1970 Yale University - city legal services, provided free legal advice for the poor.
1971 Staff attorney, Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts
1971 Carnegie Council on Children, legal consultant.
1974 Impeachment Inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.
1974 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville School of Law - One of only two female faculty members.
1976 Rose Law Firm. In 1979, she became the first woman to be made a full partner.
1976 Worked pro bono on child advocacy.
1978 Jimmy Carter appoints Clinton to the board of the Legal Services Corporation.

She was twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, in 1988 and in 1991.

First Lady of Arkansas

1979 Chaired the Rural Health Advisory Committee
1979 Introduced the Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.
1982 - 1992 Chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee

She was named Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983 and Arkansas Mother of the Year in 1984.

Clinton had co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families in 1977.

Served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services (1988-1992)and the Children's Defense Fund (as chair, 1986-1992)

Corporate board of directors of TCBY (1985-1992),Wal-Mart Stores (1986-1992), and Lafarge (1990-1992)

First Lady of the United States of America

"She's very smart ... people rightly give her credit for having been a participant in the Clinton administration and for doing some heavy lifting on issues." Barack Obama, speaking of Hillary Clinton's White House experience and contradicting Obama supporters - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart 8/22/07



When asked about his wife's role in his administration in August of 2000, President Bill Clinton said "She basically had an unprecedented level of activity in her present position over the last eight years.''

1993 First to bring a serious universal healthcare plan to be considered by the US Congress
1997 Helped develop the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997

The First Lady led the effor on the Foster Care Independence bill, to help older, unadopted children transition to adulthood. She also hosted numerous White House conferences that related to children's health, including early childhood development (1997) and school violence (1999). She lent her support to programs ranging from "Prescription for Reading," in which pediatricians provided free books for new mothers to read to their infants as their brains were rapidly developing, to nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses. She also supported an annual drive to encourage older women to seek a mammography to prevent breast cancer, coverage of the cost being provided by Medicare.

Hillary Clinton was the only First Lady to keep an office in the West Wing among those of the president's senior staff. While her familiarity with the intricate political issues and decisions faced by the President, she openly discussed his work with him, yet stated that ultimately she was but one of several individuals he consulted before making a decision. They were known to disagree. Regarding his 1993 passage of welfare reform, the First Lady had reservations about federally supported childcare and Medicaid. When issues that she was working on were under discussion at the morning senior staff meetings, the First Lady often attended. Aides kept her informed of all pending legislation and oftentimes sought her reaction to issues as a way of gauging the President's potential response. Weighing in on his Cabinet appointments and knowing many of the individuals he named, she had working relationships with many of them.

She persuaded Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin to convene a meeting of corporate CEOs for their advice on how companies could be persuaded to adopt better child care measures for working families.

With Attorney General Janet Reno, the First Lady helped to create the Department of Justice's Violence Against Women office. One of her closest Cabinet allies was Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. Following her international trips, Hillary Clinton wrote a report of her observations for Albright. A primary effort they shared was globally advocating gender equity in economics, employment, health care and education.

During her trips to Africa (1997), Asia (1995), South America (1995, 1997) and the Central European former Soviet satellite nations (1997, 1998), Hillary Clinton emphasized "a civil society," of human rights as a road to democracy and capitalism.

The First Lady was also one of the few international figures at the time who spoke out against the treatment of Afghani women by Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.

One of the programs she helped create was Vital Voices, a U.S.-sponsored initiative to promote the participation of international women in their nation's political process. One result of the group's meetings, in Northern Ireland, was drawing together women leaders of various political factions that supported the Good Friday peace agreement that brought peace to that nation long at civil war.

Hillary Clinton was also an active supporter of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), often awarding its micro-loans to small enterprises begun by women in developing nations that aided the economic growth in their impoverished communities. Certainly one of her more important speeches as First Lady addressing the need for equal rights for women was international in scope and created controversy in the nation where it was made: the September 1995 United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, China.

Senator From New York

After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Hillary worked with her colleagues to secure the funds New York needed to recover and rebuild. She fought to provide compensation to the families of the victims, grants for hard-hit small businesses, and health care for front line workers at Ground Zero.

She is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

She has introduced legislation to tie Congressional salary increases to an increase in the minimum wage.

She helped pass legislation that encouraged investment to create jobs in struggling communities through the Renewal Communities program.

She has championed legislation to bring broadband Internet access to rural America.

She worked to strengthen the Children's Health Insurance Program, which increased coverage for children in low income and working families.

She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs and to protect our food supply from bioterrorism.

She sponsored legislation to increase America's commitment to fighting the global HIV/AIDS crisis.

She's working for expanded use of information technology in the health care system to decrease administrative costs, lower premiums, and reduce medical errors.

She's worked to ensure the safety of prescription drugs for children, with legislation now included in the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act, and her legislation to help schools address environmental hazards. She has also proposed expanding access to child care.

She has passed legislation that will bring more qualified teachers into classrooms and more outstanding principals to lead our schools.

Hillary is one of the original cosponsors of the Prevention First Act to increase access to family planning. Her fight with the Bush Administration ensured that Plan B, an emergency contraceptive, will be available to millions of American women and will reduce the need for abortions.

She introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 to ensure better protection of votes and to ensure that every vote is counted.

Senate Armed Services Committee

Subcommittees:

* Airland
* Emerging Threats and Capabilities
* Readiness and Management Support

Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works

Subcommittees:

* Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health (Chair)
* Subcommittee Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
* Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure

Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions

Subcommittees:

* Children and Families
* Employment & Workplace Safety
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Hard to get angry mobs to listen to reason
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 06:35 AM by moobu2
thanks for trying though.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Note the inverse correlation between opposition to Hillary and knowledge of Hillary's record.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 06:41 AM by Perry Logan
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
45. K & R
:thumbsup:
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. You notice that whenever someone has a Big Announcement to make
it's always against Hillary?

I don't know why I even bother opening, it's so predictable.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
47. I'm a Democrat
I'll vote for the Democrat.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Let me know when you find one to vote for.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Because she's one like Lieberman is one.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 12:57 PM by closeupready
Because, among other things, anyone who claims (on at least three occasions that we have captured on film) that of the three contenders, that the Republican challenger is second most qualified for the White House, that person is not a Democrat.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. there are 2 Democrats running.
One I like, one, not so much. But still Democrats.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Well, it IS a tough conundrum.
Because the person who seems to me to be relying on your willingness to do whatever you can for the party, including your vote, seems to be the person tossing party loyalty under the bus by comparing the Republican favorably to her Democratic opponent.

IOW, she wants YOU to vote based on party, but when party loyalty conflicts with HER personal agenda, she tosses the party under the bus.

I think the anti-Hillary Democratic trend is being led by party loyalists offended by this, not by outriders, newcomers or independents.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
50. This is so funny - I was about to post a new thread saying that exact same thing
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 12:51 PM by closeupready
that I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON NO MATTER WHAT, and then I thought, enough people post threads like that, let me just check, and here I go. :hi: Put my down on the same list your on, because ain't gonna happen that cast my vote for her. WILL. NOT. DO. IT.

Like you, I hadn't firmed up on that decision until just recently.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #50
83. Totally
I concluded that so far voting for the lesser of two evils isn't working out for me so I will strictly vote FOR someone. I will most likely write in John Edwards in the event of a HRC vs. McCain scenario.
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
53. Sad to see a thread encouraging Dems not to vote Democratic w/29 recommends.
only on DU....
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. It IS sad.
Why do you think this thread has found so much favor here, and who do you think is responsible for its warm reception?

Me, I don't think DU'rs are to blame.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. Sad? No infuriating. Everyone who recommended this piece 'o crap is a faux Democrat.
There, I've said it.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Maybe the faux democrat is the one...
...who threw another democrat under the bus in favor of a Republican...
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mythyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. touché
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 04:55 PM by mythyc
this makes a good pair of images for #66

.

....


before you freak out #66 or others like you, tell me why I don't see you raising the same hell on threads about dems not voting for Obama....

and clear your throat before you unleash the crickets.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Despite his supporters stated refusal to reciprocate, I will vote for the nominee regardless. n/t
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mythyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. address my point. Where's your outrage for anti-party posts against Obama?
address my point. Where's your :grr: outrage :grr: for anti-party posts against Obama?

I checked a few, didn't see you there making the same unforgiving unilateral case as above. all crickets not just from you but from other ranters on this issue in this thread (double checked, "control f" is a useful function) :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5188613&mesg_id=5188613 (OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4613479&mesg_id=4613479 (OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4877099 (OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4444589http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5138911 (post #2)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x8629 (last line of OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4542088&mesg_id=4554593 (#267 in that thread; there are others in it)

These are just samples; there are plenty more. Ok maybe you missed one or two. But all of them? If not, and if your point is to emphasize the party over individuals, where was all this outrage when these were posted? I'm not trying to goad. I genuinely want to know. when I see it come out in a partisan way in the above context, and not when the shoe's on the other foot, all I can picture are the bot and the kettle, milli and vanilli ....

:hide: . :shrug:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. It's only been a month, dude. Give it time.
I'm getting really sick of the entire "greatest page" populated with posts encouraging democrats to vote against the nominee if it's anyone but Obama. Perhaps the reason that I haven't participated any of the recent threads to which you link is because they've been wholly obscured by the huge pile of Obamarrhea that is deposited here.
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mythyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. yet you manage to come and post here when it's harnful to your candidate
I'd have nothing but respect for you if you just admitted you yourself fell susceptible to partisanship over party on this issue. nothing but respect. instead you dodge, hedge, and sledge until the only final recourse is top blame the opposition and do so with an ugly smear (pun intended).

sad

:nopity:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. I manage to post on this one because until oh, say a month ago...
... threads opposing support for the eventual democratic nominee weren't to be found on the greatest page. Those who would write such a thing were considered pariahs. The greatest page is a place that I suspect that none of the posts to which you link could have been found.

Now you can't swing a dead cat without hitting another Obama supporter who proclaims that he or she is only a democrat because that's what their favorite celebrity can be found.

Your expression of potential respect for anyone who has dedicated his or her energies to promoting progressive values rings hollow.

Party is first, partisanship is second. I prefer Clinton's policy to Obama's but the behavior of his supporters makes that decision easier to justify.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. No, that would be "the opponent".
Campaigns are like that. Your candidate will eventually gain enough experience to understand.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #66
84. This is probably the same mentality Lieberman supporters had when he lost the nom.
Lamont supporters are faux Democrats so we'll run as Independents because we're real democrats.

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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
56. Sorry, but I highly recommend you vote for Clinton in November for the health of the Supreme Court
I don't expect her to be our nominee, but on this very important issue she is likely to be much better than John McCain. We can't let the court be tilted with two Bush nominees plus a few McCain nominees the next three decades.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #56
85. The way I see it
I figure maybe people need to experience a 3rd bush term before they finally get it. If the voting public is still going to be swayed by non-issues like Wright in the face of endless war and a devastated economy then they deserve the fate their ignorance begets them.

I think Ferraro got it wrong on why Barack has an advantage in this race. It isn't about skin color, its about the search for visionary leadership to take us away from the mess of the past 8 years. If anything Clinton is as culpable as any other Democrat for not standing up to the administration. Hillary wasn't against the war until she started running for president.

If we let this opportunity slip, so be it, but i will no longer participate in the lesser of two evils game. I will strictly vote FOR a candidate and not participate when its solely AGAINST one. I think to be honest we all lose something when we allow ourselves to be forced into that position.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
57. I have said it before in this forum ...
no true patriot would ever rubberstamp a one-party system. IMO, the corporate overclass tried to stack the deck in its favor by cramming Hillary down our throats as the inevitable Democratic nominee.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
59. That's your right.
I have decided that I will rather vote for a potted plant than vote for Obama if he's the nominee.

To each his own........


:shrug:
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. Thanking my husband again for being a Canadian. nt
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #59
86. Who knows? By November
that could be McCain. So you're taking Hillary's endorsement seriously i take it?
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
60. I will write in a vote for Kuccinich if the GE is between HRC and McCain.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 03:27 PM by EndElectoral
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ClericJohnPreston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
61. Say Sayonara baby
to DU if you won't get behind the Democratic nominee, whoever that might be. Your Obama or the highway carries no weight. He is dead last in my "smell test", but I'll hold my nose and still pull the Dem lever.

Get a grip.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #61
87. Its not Obama or the highway
if I would probably have voted for almost every other candidate that ran. For me the notion of Hillary as the Democratic nominee is to have Democratic lose its meaning.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
62. What. The. Fuck. How does an OP promising to not vote Democratic get 30 votes for greatest at DU?
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
64. And yet you expect me, a Clinton supporter, to vote for your guy if he's the nominee.
The hypocrisy among the O-bots is staggering.

Bake
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. Well, if he's the nominee, payback will come in November. n/t
There's plenty of Hillary's supporters who won't vote for him.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #82
90. Obama can't win the GE
it's that simple. He is sagging in the polls, especially with independents; a segment that the Obama camp is relying on. Obama might have kept his base supporters, but in every other segment his numbers just don't look good. So what, if Obama ends up winning the primary; he already lost the GE, before it gets off the ground.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
72. You agonized for three months to decide you won't vote?
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #72
88. Correction
if you haven't seen it higher up in the thread I WILL vote in November. I will most likely write in John Edwards in a HRC vs. McCain scenario.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
77. I've voted for the same candidate in most presidential elections ...
... THE LESSER OF EVILS.

Hillary Clinton is by far the lesser evil compared with John McCain.

Hold your nose and vote because there is a real difference.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #77
89. I refuse to play that game anymore
I've been voting for the lesser of two evils the majority of the time ever since I started voting AND I've always voted Democratic, and so far every time I did I ended up losing anyway.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. The "game" you refuse to play has been going on since our Republic was founded ...
... and the results have shaped our history and affected all our lives.

If you look back at our history you will see that real progress has been made, but that it has often taken generations. In the labor movement and the civil rights movement people endured worse hardships than you likely ever have, and often gave their lives in the hopes of a better life for their children. They were often faced with choices more unpalatable than an election between Hillary Clinton and John McCain, but they did what they could and made a better life because they were determined and kept at it.

If you live another hundred years, you'll probably never see a viable candidate with whom you agree on everything. Does that mean you should abandon your most important Constitutional right and duty -- your vote? Taking your baseball and going home won't stop the game -- it will just exclude you and others who refuse to play from influencing the results.

One choice is always better or worse than the other -- and at least we have a choice.

We'll never have better choices if people on our side get disgusted and give up on the game.

Those who came before us didn't have that luxury, and those yet to come are depending on us.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
79. 36 recommends on a post urging people not to vote Democratic. Wonderful.
Sigh.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #79
93. Thank you.
I can understand tantrums during primary season, and I hope that this one won't last.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
80. Good post... You've reached the same conclusion I have
Clinton and McCain voted for the war. Makes them the same in my book. I won't vote for anyone who voted for this war.

Obama is the only one who can get my vote.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
91. What about SCOTUS?
8 years of McCain, perpetual war in the ME, and a neo-fascist SCOTUS would change life as you know it.




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