A Completely Benign Subject Line; An Opportunity for Polite Discourse

[RedShoesBlueState]

I'm interested in hearing from Obama supporters concerning a conclusion I've reached based on my observations of this board. Clinton supporters are welcome to respond also, if you care to comment.
My observation? That the "talk-to-the-hand" "I'm ignoring you" fingers-in-ears la la la attitude of so many Obama supporters on this board is very, very damaging to the party, and is going to cost us the next election. I find it obnoxious and childish, and I doubt that such people will be able to effectively convince an undecided voter with serious reservations about Obama to cast their vote for him in November. If you can't even respond with civility to a fellow Democrat, who just wants to raise concerns and discuss them intelligently, then how are you going to convince an on-the-fence Repub or independent of anything?

This board is so deeply polarized, and so overwhelmingly filled with Obama supporters, that it can be very intimidating to post here if you are a Clinton supporter. I have seen perfectly rational posts, stated in a non-threatening, non-critical way, greeted with jeers, profanities, and ugly characterizations of Senator Clinton which are absolutely hateful. Even the simplest query, an invitation to consider the other side, is usually rejected out of hand. (There are exceptions -- I have seen some reasonable and calm responses from Obama supporters also.) But overall -- overall -- I see in so many Obama supporters here a complete rejection of the idea of listening to what the other guy has to say. And that is a very dangerous thing in politics. Politics is all about compromise and understanding where the other person is coming from.

This has been particularly disturbing to me this past week, when some posters here have tried to express concerns about the Wright issue, and what we perceive as Obama's insufficient response. Why is this so disturbing? Because I think the difference between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters is that many Clinton supporters ARE listening to others. We're not getting all our information from other Obama supporters on a constant feedback loop - a loop that only seeks to reaffirm your own support of your candidate. I'm listening to independents, and to moderate Republicans, and to moderate Democrats, and what I hear in THEIR response to Obama alarms me. They didn't understand the subtleties of his speech on race. They're still disturbed that he was affiliated with Wright for 20 years. They don't like that he said something negative about his grandmother. Yes, that may seem dimwitted to you -- how could they NOT get it? Argue with me all you want, but that's what Middle America is saying -- they didn't get it, they didn't understand it, and they're increasingly leery of Obama. Those Wright speeches are going to be playing over and over, and they're not going to go away.

And by the way, if I hear one more supporter on either side posting polls in some effort to show that one or the other is WAAAAY ahead, I'm going to scream. The truth is here: http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm
And the truth is that there is no discernible difference between either of them in a match-up against McCain, and McCain continues to mostly be ahead.

Sigh. So, let me have it. Or...prove me wrong. Show me that you can respond with civility. Or, at the very least, if your overwhelming reaction is to want to respond with vitriol, then hold that in check. Show some self-control, and pass my post by. That's what I do with so many of things I read here, and why I have less than 100 posts. (And by the way, posting to say "I'm not responding to you because you're full of crap" -- that counts as a negative response, and merely proves my point.)

All the best to you, no matter what happens. I'll be voting for the Democratic candidate in the Fall, no matter who that may be.

[XemaSab]

1. Thank you

for your concern.

[leftofcool]

2. Excellent Post

I think you will find that serious Dems (not the freeper trolls) in this forum like to play. It is easy to sit behind a keyboard and bash the other camp. But in real life, let some repuke say something bad about about Hillary and an Obama supporter would be right on top of that freeper. Same thing if something was said about Obama by a rethug. Getting Dems together is like herding Jello.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

3. I'll assume your OP is in good faith...

Obama clearly and plainly repudiated the statements of his pastor, and then went on to explain WHY his pastor was wrong and what a proper response should be to racism in our society. I'm really not certain what else he might be expected to say or do beyond that.

If you look at Rev. Wright's biography, he's a man who dedicated 35 years of his life to the service of God -- that's after serving his country as a United States Marine. No matter who you were or where you were in this life, Rev. Wright reached out to you in kindness. Prison ministries. Food pantries. HIV/AIDS support.

He's a decent and honorable man. I'm here in Wisconsin. If I put together a highlight reel of all of Brett Favre's interceptions, he'd look like the worst quarterback in the history of the NFL. But Rev. Wright, like Brett Favre, is more than the sum of his mistakes. And the good that he's done in the world far outweighs a few intemperate words.

Regarding Obama's grandmother, my own grandfather was an otherwise decent man, but my mom once told me that when they drove through a black neighborhood in Chicago once, my grandfather told my mother that the children playing in the street were black "because they didn't bathe often enough."

Should I stop loving the man who taught me how to hunt and fish? He was wrong. He was a victim of the times he lived in and I can't possibly condone that kind of attitude. But if I can find it in my heart to forgive me grandfather for being hurtful and wrong, maybe I can forgive the person next door or down the street.

[RedShoesBlueState]

5. Thank you for your response

And thanks for the opportunity to discuss. I should start by saying that I understand what Senator Obama was trying to say in his speech. I too have people I love who have said ugly things. But those people are family, and you can't pick your family. I love them unconditionally, because that's what families do.

However, I would never belong to a church, or call somone my spiritual advisor, who said some of the things Wright said. For me, the one that is the most deeply disturbing is his contention that the government created the HIV virus to kill Black people. At the very minimimum, I find it to be a huge lack of judgment on Obama's part that he would affiliate himself with someone who said such a thing. And by the way, I don't care if he was in the church that day and heard that sermon or not. If they were so close to each other, you can't tell me that Wright wouldn't have shared that idea with a parishioner who is in politics, who is a United States Senator. Surely they discussed politics of all sorts, if they were close.

So, I guess what I would say is that my concern is not so much about Obama's speech as it is that it's too little, too late. It was damage control that failed, in my opinion. And what disturbs me the most is that my party did such a lousy job of investigating the candidates' backgrounds -- that they didn't find this information two years ago and say "Whoaaaa....." -- so that we wouldn't have gotten to the point where we are now, seemingly stuck with what seems to be the inevitable candidate, a candidate I do not think is electable.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. Why is it so outrageous to you that black people would believe the HIV rumor?

Are you unaware of the history our country has?

Smallpox infested blankets.

The Tuskegee experiment.

Just to start...

[Straight Shooter]

8. Why don't we all just run around yelling at the top of our lungs how the govt is trying to kill us?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/experimentation.html

Read it and weep. It ain't just about any particular group. It's everyone who gets caught in the experimental net. And you bet this is a far from comprehensive list; it's merely the ones discovered.

[Yes We Did]

10. They are trying to kill us.

Well, just the ones they don't like, and just the ones they can't control.

[Straight Shooter]

15. Okay, well, I definitely fall into the latter category.

Probably the first, too, considering I'm a socialist at heart.

[ellacott]

4. I've never understood how anyone reading this board could see this

I see both sides as being highly partisan. I've seen disruptive and mean posters on each side. Some of the most ridiculous posts I've seen on this board have been made by Clinton supporters. Some very dishonest posts have been made by Obama supporters.

No side can claim any moral high ground.

[Yes We Did]

12. But you notice, it's always a Hillary supporter who makes these threads.

It reminds me of Nevada; when the Clintons were trying to supress the voter turnout and then blamed Obama for it.

[Scurrilous]

7. Kick

:kick:

[usrbs]

9. Nice post. Which is why you're getting so many responses. n/t

[Bonobo]

11. My opinion is that you are confusing DU for the real world like many confused posters.

What happens here is indicative of internet BBS echochambers. It has nothing to do with the reality of the situation and it certainly does nothing to indicate anything about Obama as a candidate.

So you found out that anonymous posters on the internet can be rude, crude, short-fused, insulting, funny, sad, whatever.

That is all it means. Do not be so easily confused between reality and virtual reality.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Thanks. I'm for anything that will bring a little civility back to this board.

Happy Easter.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. I'm a Hillary supporter, but in fairness...

... is Wright truly the most meaningful issue facing democrats? Is "his insufficient response" truly so disturbing?

I think there a wide range of reasons to treat Obama's candidacy as suspect, but this issue is nothing more than a triviality that is dumbed-down to the point that Fox news listeners can understand it.

Although I agree that the ignore-first-ask-questions-later attitude comes from our less mature posters, I see plenty of irrationality coming from both camps.

You know what? Maybe it's for the best. All the true believers can stay home on election day because their candidate lost. McCain wins, invades Iran bans abortion, privatizes Social Security and catalyzes a full-scale depression.

Maybe only when we've hit rock bottom will we support actual progressives. Every generation must make its own mistakes, it seems.