Sweet Jesus, for the sake of my sanity...

[Mike03]

If it is mathematically impossible for candidate A to triumph over candidate B, for the love of god, please just concede and let our party unify, recover from the emotional trauma of the past few months, concertize a strategy, focalize our donations so that we don't waste them, and prepare to defeat this evil, ignorant, hypocritical, mentally deficient, deranged opponent John McCain.

[yardwork]

1. Very good OP. Well said. k&r.

[Window]

2. K/R.

:kick:

[Scurrilous]

3. Amen!

:thumbsup:

[femrap]

4. I will K and R that great post! nt

[Lucky 13]

5. Amen Brother Mike.

[KansasVoter]

6. Hillary has a EGO as big as Obamas Delegate Lead

Hillary would DESTROY the party to ger the nomination.

[PatGund]

22. Which party???

Sen. Clinton seems to be a member of the DLC party, not the DNC party.

[mhoran]

50. Sadly...

...this appears to be true. Hillary's behavior has been painful to watch. Naively, I suppose, I had hoped for better.

[Catherina]

7. K&R!

Very well written.

[Catherina]

8. K&R!

Very well written.

[depakid]

9. At some point it may be time for candidate A and candidate B to support compromise candidate C

It's been done before, and may need to be done again.

[olkaz]

14. This is a terrible idea, and it's not going to happen.

But people keep bringing it up somehow.

[mopinko]

51. NO FUCKING WAY. NONE. NONE. NONE.

a number of people on here that i previously respected keep floating this absolutely disgusting notion. if you think, for one nanaosecond, that the people who voted for, and worked for, obama are about to stand by while their amazing achievements are flushed down the toilet you are OUT OF YOUR MIND.

[depakid]

57. I'm simply being rational in terms of winning

seems to me that others would prefer to go down in flames- and take EVERYONE ELSE down with them.

Quite frankly- it's those types of people who I don't respect and to put it bluntly: we've all witnessed what the consequences of these sorts of self-indulgent attitudes and behaviors in the past.

What's it gotten us? Look around.

[mopinko]

74. either we are a democracy or we aren't. that is more important

than winning or losing. in the end, i trust people to make wise choices, as long as they have access to accurate information.
frankly, i don't even understand where this shit is coming from. obama is a great candidate that is igniting our tired democracy. win or lose, that should be our goal. and honestly, polls are full of shit. i do not see how this wave can be stopped. maybe you should back away from the computer, and get out there and actually talk to people. get to work. quit wishing for big daddy to rescue you. we are the people we are waiting for.
self indulgent? look in the mirror.

[sushi]

67. Who?

Who is candidate C???

[Pezzo]

10. It is practically impossible. Not mathematically

Something is said to be "mathematically impossible" when for example, Clinton would lose even if she won 100% of the delegates in all states.

At this point. She has not lost mathematically. Is it true that her chances are extremely low? Yes. But mathematically is a term that shouldn't be used to signify what it doesn't.

[wileedog]

18. So why continue to hurt the Dem chances for what her own people

say is an outside chance at best?

Smearing Obama is her only retardedly small chance and it maximizes the chances of a McCain presidency. WTF is the party standing for this?

[FrenchieCat]

11. uh....Ye-Ah!

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

12. If only you could use math to measure the sheer hubris of the "Lady"

[gateley]

13. You nailed it, Mike -

you cut through the games and get to the reality of the challenge we're facing.

Very Biden-esque of you! :hi:

[grantcart]

15. lol reminds me of Phil Hendrie

[DevonRex]

16. Time for the heavy hitters

to have a chat with the Clintons. If they don't get out for the good of hte party, maybe for the good of their future careers. Nobody trusts them now.

[IndependentDem]

problem is that the clintons think they are the heavy hitters

you see what happens if someone doesn't fallow their lead-- they no longer matter.

[IndependentDem]

64. problem is that the clintons think they are the heavy hitters

you see what happens if someone doesn't fallow their lead-- they no longer matter.

[IndependentDem]

65. problem is that the clintons think they are the heavy hitters

you see what happens if someone doesn't fallow their lead-- they no longer matter.

[uponit7771]

17. K&R

[nsd]

19. K & R

[Yossariant]

20. Sure, Mike. For rhe sake of your sanity, let's throw out the RULES

that you find inconvenient and only adhere to those you like.

:crazy:

[jgraz]

44. Your concept of "rules" is a bit suspect

Tell me, when was the last time a clearly losing candidate refused to concede before every single vote was counted?

[SeattleGirl]

21. You said it, Mike!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[greyghost]

23. It is time.

[ClayZ]

24. K and R

[Swamp Rat]

25. Hey ClayZ

:hi:

[MH1]

26. But what if candidate A doesn't think that

John McCain is a "evil, ignorant, hypocritical, mentally deficient, deranged" opponent, and even perhaps that McCain would be a better CinC than candidate B of A's own party?

Isn't that the way it's seeming these days?

[ecdab]

27. Unfortunately, it isn't mathematically impossible for candidate A

to triumph over candidate B, it is only impossible for candidate A to triumph over candidate B in manner that will not implode the Democratic party.

It seems obvious to me that we (the Democratic Party) would be better served coming together, fighting against the Republicans, and not wasting our money on a circular firing squad - but there are still a number of "super delegates" that disagree. The "super delegates" are the only ones that can shut down the Hillary Clinton campaign, other than Hillary (and I don't see her stepping aside of her own free will). The conclusion of this contest does seem to be fairly "inevitable" at this point, but camp Hillary is clinging to a slim mathematical possibility that would result in absolute chaos for the Democratic Party to justify soldiering on.

Also, many of our "super delegates" are the same spineless folks that can not figure out how to vote on issues like torture and accountability and spying on American citizens - do we really expect them to grow a spine now and do what seems to be the obviously correct thing?

[faithfulcitizen]

28. no kidding, and quit posting slime about the presumptive nominee. I can't believe what's tolerated

by the mods these days.

[Kurovski]

29. K&R

I almost posted something like this yesterday.

Madam Hil is getting to be a bit too fucking much. Time to end the horseshit before she poisons her image too deeply and forevermore.

[guyanakoolaid]

55. Too late for that I'm afraid

If the votes towards war with Iraq and Iran weren't enough to convince people of the right-wing leanings of Hillary, her latest campaign "strategies" will surely leave a bad taste that lingers even longer for many Democrats.

[Kurovski]

58. I was being too polite.

You're correct, of course. She's a shit sandwich now.

And her old man is the pickle.

[Mezzo]

30. If it mathematically impossible for Candidate B to get the required by teh RULES 2024 and-a-half

for the love of God, please continue to fight for your country, especially if you believe one candidate is not ready.

[jgraz]

43. Yeah, Hillary's really fighting for her country

Gimme a fucking break.

[cyberpj]

31. I believe she has to stay in until her Bush buddies can steal the election for her. nt

[frog92969]

60. You and me both.

:scared:

[dana_b]

32. omg, after McCain's blunders this week, I'm even more frightened of the possibility

that he may be our prez. Plesase dems, don't tear yourselves apart!!

[GoldieAZ49]

33. Why should Hillary drop out of the race?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5207908

[jgraz]

46. Because of a lot of really obvious shit that you don't understand

What? You know the Clintonites just see BLAH BLAH BLAH Wright BLAH BLAH BLAH Rezko anyway.

[GoldieAZ49]

49. That's politics, it isn't pretty

never has been never will be

[myrna minx]

34. Thank you. n/t

[Kesaco]

35. Neither candidate can garner enough to reach 2024

[jgraz]

47. Red herring.

Only one candidate will win the pledged delegate count and the popular vote. And only one candidate can win the nomination without needing over 70% of the remaining superdelegates.

If you can show me a reasonable scenario as to how Hillary gets to 2024 without starting a race war in the party, I'll accept that she should stay in.

But I haven't seen such a scenario and I highly doubt one exists.

[shellinaya]

36. Your logic is missing

Actually neither candidate can win without the super delegates, and the way things look this morning, Hillary will get most of them.
As she should. She has won all the BIG states and will win Pennslyvania.

The Super Delegates need to notice that and support the candidate who has the best chance, which is Hillary.

[Kesaco]

37. I agree, the point I was trying to make is

the Obama folks just want Hillary to roll over and play dead. They don't want to see King Obama take the pounding he is going to encounter in Pennsylvania.

For some reason, if a candidate wins large states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, California, New York, Texas and Michigan and Florida for that matter she should pickup and go home. Seems very strage to me.

[nvme]

56. Michigan and Florida were not on the table

Granted Hillary won the traditional Democratic Blue states. Then again those states will vote along party lines. Obama has the lead end of story. How difficult is that for camp Clinton to fathom? Obama leads in funds, delegates, and popular votes. His popularity is still going now that the rest of the country sees he is viable. He unlike Clinton, pulls in large numbers of crossover, independent and republican votes. He has motivated a long unreliable group of youth that can overwhelmingly tilt the election in our favor. Unlike Camp Clinton, he has made a unifying effort for this country. His campaign staff is almost flawless. As firestorms develop, he addresses them (unlike Kerry did in 04). His addressing of the Wright (Mountain out of a molehill) controversy with such an well stated and profound speech truly does demonstrate his readiness to meet the challenge of the Oval Office. He has faced the "Kitchen sink" and used it to wash up with. Clinton tried using the Safe brand of politics and was out of touch with the electorate. She was geared for inevitability and when America voted, it voted for change. the greater majority using dollars, votes and delegate votes to seek to say " NO NOT THIS TIME". Hillary I'm sure deserves much respect for What she accomplished up to this point. She has performed excellent in the debates. She has done everything she could to stay viable and remain a contender. It is to her credit. Her choices in her message, in her strategy, and staff have failed to convince the majority that she is the one to be POTUS. Had the situation been reversed, I would be somewhat disillusioned by this inevitable defeat. I would argue to the last until I realized, No Hail mary would save the day. the only option left is concede or go Nuclear. Nuclear means destroying the party with a continued scorched earth policy. So far it has helped garner votes in Ohio, but at what cost? We are not as organized as re pubs and we are divisive enough as Dem's(Herding Cats). Is it really beneficial to reach for the brass ring while you try to crush all who are of different minds? McCain will alter his rhetoric and start to pull that Indy vote away he has secured his nomination. Even if Camp Clinton does secure the question of legitimacy will haunt the campaign in similar fashion toward bush in 02. It will demoralize the base and numbers in November will not be record breaking. And Victory will be lost. And
As far as Florida and michigan. We should get seats in the convention but the votes must be evenly split.
yes my home-state of FL violated the rules as did michigan we are forced to accept the responsibility of our actions. Remember it was State Legislators who created this mess. Vote them out.

[Politicalboi]

71. TX,MI ,FL,

She didn't win those states. She lost in delegates in TX. FL MI don't count. And Pennsylvanis hasn't even voted yet. Hopefully the NAFTA bullshit she has been spewing will reflect big time in Pa. And if she does win Pa it won't be by much. And will she show her tax records on 4/15 like she said? I doubt it.

[apocalypsehow]

39. Something is amiss alright, but I don't think it's the OP's logic.

When you get back home, be sure and tell JimRob hi for me.

:thumbsdown:

[apocalypsehow]

38. Your reasoning, of course, would be quite correct if it applied to a Democrat. But HRC is no such

creature - the only political Party she believes in is the one she is running. So, in her mind the Democratic Party is useless if it cannot serve as a vehicle for her own personal ambition.

The logic of her current vile behavior makes a certain kind of ruthless sense, if you think about it: she will stay in to the end in the vague hope of stealing the nomination somehow, BUT, if she can't steal it she can at least do all she can to make it difficult for the Democratic nominee in 2008 to win. This serves her rancid ego in a two-fold manner:

1. She truly believes that if she can't be the Democrat in the White House, there shouldn't be a Democrat in the White House. The Democratic Party has "failed" her if it won't coronate her Queen, and it deserves to go down to defeat on those grounds alone.

2. Second, and more importantly, a McCain administration clears the path to 2012. She can even go into the 2012 nomination with the claim that the Party messed up in 2008 by not nominating her Highness, neglecting to mention, of course, that she did everything in her power to defeat the candidate of her own Party.

The longer one observes the character of HRC - and that of her hysterical supporters - one begins to truly understand how corrupting the naked hunger for power can be.

[knixphan]

73. scary. true.

[ClayZ]

40. Kick

[sofa king]

41. It's not the right math.

The math of Presidential politics is more like "one or the other." Mrs. Clinton has a small chance to get the nomination, but if she wins the nomination she has a very good chance of winning.

Much more importantly, she has the only other chance, amongst all Americans, to get the nomination. That's kind of like being one of two lottery card holders in a 50 bazillion dollar drawing. That guy over there bought nine hundred thousand lottery cards, and you bought one.

Are you gonna tear that lottery card up? Hell, no! You're gonna wait for the drawing, and then tear it up.

Besides, the competition is fun outside of here, and it seems to be working. It's a long time until the convention, anyway, and I don't want to waste the next two months reading bullshit "nominee dangles asshole Republican crossover as VP candidate" stories. This is much more interesting and effective in controlling the overall debate, which is currently over "good" and "better" positions from the Dem point of view.

[sushi]

70. I agree!

One week is long in politics, let alone until the convention.
Two or three weeks ago, in Murdoch-owned newspaper ("The Australian") a psephologist (Malcolm Mckerras) predicted that Clinton will defeat McCain, if she's the candidate for the Democrats. I remember he also predicted a Kerry win, but he didn't count the swiftboat guys! He just studies elections and trends in voting, and made his 2004 prediction before
the swiftboat attacks on Kerry.

[Jim Sagle]

42. Manufacturing Unity.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[WillyT]

45. BRAVO !!! - K & R !!!

:bounce::kick::bounce:

[jgraz]

48. K&R!

:thumbsup:

[Diane R]

52. But, don't you know? It's all about Hillary. Just Hillary.

[AntiFascist]

53. I agree, we don't need a doddering old fool following in Bush's footsteps n/t

[pansypoo53219]

54. but but but

hillary was in the lead in 2007 and and she was SUPPOSED to win, so WHY should she be rational?

[fortyfeetunder]

59. Amen!

We don't need a reprise from 2000/2004.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. The problem is, from the get-go Candidate A has been convinced they're entitled and inevitable.

Seems to me Candidate A is pissed that the thing wasn't handed over 8 months ago upon demand.

[debunkthelies]

62. and mine

I live in the state where the 'Honorable?' John McCain and the other repug Senator, Kyl, and (reprehensible)Rep.Renzi are there to do nothing for the people, unless lining your pockets is doing something for the people, so yes, let's move on and get these monsters out of office.

[kentj44]

63. depends on the

pa. vote if its close she may concede.

[David Zephyr]

66. Yes. Apparently, ambition trumps ethics.

Kick!

[AZBlue]

68. K&R

[HCE SuiGeneris]

69. My turn to Kick and Recommend.

The insane devout worship of a lost cause is mind-numbing. This will be an overwhelming win for the Democrats with Obama as the nominee. Hillary and her camp are deluded if they think this will not be the final outcome.

[Taxmyth]

72. Too many variables

Michigan, Florida, neither candidate reaching a consensus. Until the convention or until all the variables have been determined this problem cannot be solved mathematically. Happy Easter.

[TheDeathadder]

75. oh don't forget

it is mathematically impossible for candidate B to triumph over candidate A also...you didn't add that up while up on your high horse?