The Pinocchio Test

[ProSense]

Hillary's Balkan Adventures, Part II

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to
be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead
we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to
our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

<...>

The Pinocchio Test

Clinton's tale of landing at Tuzla airport "under sniper fire" and then
running for cover is simply not credible. Photographs and video of the
arrival ceremony, combined with contemporaneous news reports, tell a
very different story. Four Pinocchios.

March 22, 2008

"We Just Ran With Our Heads Down"

by hilzoy

A few days ago, Hillary Clinton described her 1996 trip to Bosnia:

"I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia, and as Togo said, there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn't go, so send the First Lady. That’s where we went. I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

Even before Sinbad challenged Clinton's account, I was skeptical: as I read somewhere (sorry, don't remember where), does it really make sense to suppose that if the trip was that dangerous, the President would have sent not just his wife but his only child on it?

Now, however, there is video of Clinton running with her head down through the hail of bullets. Except for, um, the running part, and the bullets part, and the part about the greeting ceremony being cancelled. It's worth watching to see the perils Senator Clinton endured. And it does support her story in one respect: as you can see in this picture, she did bend her head down on the tarmac, to hug an eight year old girl who had just read her a poem.

Harrowing stuff. No doubt all the nonexistent bullets flying around account for the fact that none of the reporters who were present mentioned any danger at the time. Obviously, they were so terrified that they repressed it all.

Honestly: there was no need for Clinton to do any of this. She did play a serious policy role in her husband's administration (even if she didn't help pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, as she claims.) The only reason for her to inflate a trip with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow into a serious diplomatic mission, and a trip to Northern Ireland involving "a visit to a women's drop-in centre and two business parks" into helping bring peace to Northern Ireland, is that by pretending to have been more involved in foreign policy than she really was, she can pretend that while Barack Obama isn't ready to be commander in chief, she is.

Frankly, though, the fact that she can't tell the difference between having an eight year old read her a poem on a tarmac and fleeing through a hail of bullets doesn't give me a lot of confidence in her grasp of military affairs. Who knows? If she were President, she might decide that she was under attack by helicopter gunships when she was actually standing in a perfectly peaceful receiving line at a state funeral, and declare war. If she thinks the video I linked to shows her running for safety in a hail of bullets, anything is possible.

Hillary's Campaign-ending Lie (Updated)

Fact Check tries to cover for Hillary's SCHIP lie

[BumRushDaShow]

1. I'm sure there will be more where that came from! K&R

:rofl:

Lies lies!

[ProSense]

8. To be fair,

the woman wearing the sunglasses does look kind of scary.

:rofl:

[BumRushDaShow]

10. LOL

:rofl:

[DerekJ]

2. There are not enough Pinocchios to measure her lies.

[SunsetDreams]

3. lol Derek nt

[ecdab]

4. vetting, vetting, vetting... so this what Hillary's experience really amounts to

[PM7nj]

5. What did she think she was doing?

Did she seriously not remember all those cameras around her? Did she think the video footage would not surface?

[ProSense]

6. Complicit media! If things had gone according to the

inevitability plan, this stuff would have never have surfaced. Hillary would have continued touting her lies and exaggerations, and the major media would have remained silent.

She was challenged, and this is not the 1990s when it comes to access to information.

[Scurrilous]

7. K & R

:thumbsup:

[ProSense]

9. There is no defense for a pattern of exaggerations and misrepresenting the facts. n/t

[cornermouse]

11. Disingenuous when you go to the sources and read

what is actually written. (Hollering) Next....

[VolcanoJen]

12. K&R

Hey ProSense, do you like my avatar? }(

[ProSense]

13. LOL!

:hi:

[ProSense]

14. Verification

Just checked with her published schedules...

the landing in the video was her ONLY landing by plane in Bosnia. Touched down in Tuzla 8:45 am, then two more fights during that day to army posts by helicopter. Left Bosnia by plane again that very evening to Aviano AFB, Italy.

http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/Documents/HRC%20Years/HRC%201996.pdf
pages 468 to 471

The schedule even has the 8-year-old girl on it, so everything seems to have run according to plan.

No chance that the video shows anything else but her ONLY landing in Bosnia. Documentary evidence.

[Ino]

15. Her ability to flat-out lie with a straight face...

reminds me of GWB. She dismisses Sinbad's account with "he's a comedian." And finishes her lie with an emphatic "Now THAT is what happened." What arrogance to think her statements won't be fact-checked.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/22/161812/428/776/482309

"If she were President, she might decide that she was under attack by helicopter gunships when she was actually standing in a perfectly peaceful receiving line at a state funeral, and declare war."
:rofl:

Don't drop out, Hillary! I want to see you destroy yourself.

[Cha]

41. Sinbad Vindicated!

YAY Sinbad!

[Blarch]

16. unreal.

she should be removed from the senate, she isn't qualified to wash my dog.

[ProSense]

17. News accounts of the entire Bosnia adventure

Here's her schedule. ONE flight in and out of Bosnia.

[stratomagi]

18. This reminds me of that president guy...

you know the one related to that other president guy...the one who makes shit up off the top of his head as well.

[ProSense]

19. Hillary in Tuzla: The Tale of Bosnian Sniper Fire (TRAILER)

Hillary in Tuzla: The Tale of Bosnian Sniper Fire (TRAILER)

[slinkerwink]

20. kicking!

[mkultra]

21. are we sure

Were there any other trips that might be in this mix confusing the story?

Hillary people? Nothing?

[MH1]

22. I saw another post saying there was only one trip she could have been talking about.

Sorry, no link. Just noting that it was discussed, and I saw no rebuttal that it was a different trip.

[ProSense]

29. Posted

here

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

23. Walter Mitty for Prezident

I wonder if she actually believes her own fantastic bs. Heroic war veteran, HRC.

McCain'll make a meal of her!

:hi:

[ProSense]

36. Hillary's campaign, once defiant, is now trying to spin this as

a misspeak.

[ProSense]

24. Hillary's NAFTA lie exposed (for good)

Video: Hillary Clinton in support of NAFTA

Audio from 1996: Hillary's full comment (at about 20:50 mins.)

Also, from the DLC site:

We all know the record of the DLC, the Progressive Policy Institute and, of course, the Clinton-Gore Administration. The economic recovery plan stands first and foremost as a testament to both good ideas and political courage. National service. The Brady Bill. Family Leave. NAFTA. Investment in science and technology. New markets. Charter schools. The Earned Income Tax Credit. The welfare to work partnership. The COPS program. The SAFER program. All of these came out of some very fundamental ideas about what would work.

link

[ProSense]

25. Updates from WaPo

UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m.

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

UPDATE Saturday 8:45 a.m.

Gen. Nash says that I misquoted him in saying he was unaware of any "security threat" to the First Lady. While he was unaware of any "sniper threat," he now tells me there were a couple of "security concerns" that day, which he found out about after returning to his headquarters after greeting Clinton at the airport. There was a "non-specific report" of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that "some of the communications associated with the First Lady's visit were being monitored."

"In both cases, we took appropriate security action," said Nash, adding that Clinton's visit was not disrupted.

Anybody else with first-hand memories of Clinton's Tuzla trip, please send them along.

link

Wow they have very good inconsistent memories, which Hillary doesn't.

Truck bomb? Hills?

How does this square with Hillary's account evasive maneuvers and running under sniper fire to get to cars?

Wow, they have a General in damage control over Hillary's lie!

[suston96]

26. Your link in your OP doesn't work. And how nice...

...You provide the updates to the phony fact-check by the WP which I have been posting that show that there WAS a security threat and Hillary and her group were issued flak jackets.

Flak jackets? Why? Truck bombs maybe?

But hey, you people need to make up lies about a Clinton trip in 1996 to cover the Obama's Uncle Jeremiah racist embarrassments in 2008.

[ProSense]

27. BS, the links work fine! n/t

[azmouse]

28. K&R

[ProSense]

30. Will Hillary come clean and admit the truth? n/t

[Blaukraut]

32. Probably not

I'd like to know what possessed her to make this up? The real story might not have been as exciting as a Wild West shootout, but she did visit over there and I'm sure she brought quite a bit of goodwill with her.

[ProSense]

33. It's curious! n/t

[fedupinBushcountry]

31. Kicking

:kick:

[UALRBSofL]

34. It comes as no surprise to me that there are many Obama supporters that

fabricate the issues. It just goes to show how they cherry pick, choose sound bites and distort the facts. Are Obama's supporters who are doing these dirty politics a reflection of Obama's Campaign, a reflection of Obama's character and leadership. This is something the public will have to deside upon in the coming months as we see more of the underhanded ways the Obama Campaign will go to win the democratic nomination.

Obama has been caught in several lies during this campaign, most recently when he said he had never heard any of Wright's inflammatory comments before but admitted the next day in his speech that he had. Or when he told an interviewer that Austan Goolsbee had never met with Canadian officials - "didn't happen" were his words - and subsequently a memo surfaced which caused Goolsbee himself to admit the meeting had occurred. The difference is that he is never called to account for these untruths either by the media or his loyalists. Clinton recalled the Bosnia flight as one where she and Chelsea were ordered into the cockpit and told to wear flak jackets, then advised of potential sniper fire on the ground. Her statements are cherrypicked and made to look like monstrous lies. All's fair in politics, but at least admit the possibility that Barack Obama's campaign plays the spin game and shades the truth with the best of them.

[ProSense]

44. It's never Hillary's fault is it? n/t

[ProSense]

35. Hillary = Pinocchio

Clinton ‘Misspoke’ About Bosnia Trip, Campaign Says

By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE

The Clinton campaign says Senator Hillary Clinton may have “misspoke” recently when she said she had to evade sniper fire when she was visiting Bosnia in 1996 as first lady.

<...>

Asked today to square her recent descriptions with these accounts, Howard Wolfson, her spokesman, referred to several contemporaneous news accounts that described the region as hostile. He then added: “It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.”

Asked at a later point in the call to clarify his comment, Mr. Wolfson said that news accounts at the time made clear that the area in which she was landing was “a potential combat zone and was hazardous.”

He said that in her memoir, “Living History,” she wrote about sniper fire in the hills and “clearly meant to say that” when she brought it up last week. He said she had described the event many times the same way and that “in one instance she said it slightly differently.”

A third reporter then asked about it, prompting Mr. Howard to read the relevant passage from her book, in which she wrote: “Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children.” He repeated that this was the one time in which she misspoke.

But this formulation was at least the second time in recent weeks that she described the sniper fire. She mentioned it on Feb. 29 in Waco, Tex., when she was rolling out her “red phone” commercial, recalling the trip to Bosnia and saying that the welcoming ceremony “had to be moved inside because of sniper fire.”

[dailykoff]

37. Mispo-nochio

yeah she mispoke

[elixir]

38. Poor ProSense, trying to make this non issue into an issue. Is Pastorgate keeping you awake at nigh

t? Hmmm. Or is it Obama's lack of momentum. Or is it gen. McLeary's crazing ravings about Macarthyism. Or is it Bill Richardson's ass kissing endorsement just to get a job again.

[ProSense]

39. I really get under your skin, huh? Clue: Hillary is the one who you should be pitying right now.

Her credibility is sinking like a tank in quicksand.

[elixir]

40. Your sad little rants take up too much space on the DU board. Did you see the wall to wall Pastor

coverage again this morning and evening on CNN and MSNBC? How about the in depth coverage of HRCs speech on the economy. I think HIllary's making hay while Obama is doing damage control while on vacation.

Hey, I seem to recall another person who went on vacation whenever things got tough - remember the 9/11 report?

[ProSense]

42. Without embarrassing you,

become informed: here and here.

Hate to see you clinging desperately to "false hope."

[ProSense]

43. Ouch!

Video: CBS Exposes Hillary Clinton Bosnia Trip.

[Symarip]

45. Larry King had Sinbad on the phone tonight

What does it say when Sinbad has more credibility than your campaign?

SINBAD is calling you a liar. SINBAD!!!!

Did you ever see Houseguest? And that dude is the one we're turning to in order to find the facts? And he's the one we're forced to believe because you lied, er, mis-spoke?

Bravo, Clinton Headquarters.

Wait. Let me guess. Somehow this will be Sinbad's fault by the end of the week.

edited title for bad grammar

[ProSense]

46. In 2008, who'd have guess that the

sources for credible news and fact checking would be comedians?

Proof that the media is a joke!

[Symarip]

47. What's the bigger joke?

The media's antics and charades around this election (and every other one in recent history), or the fact that Sinbad is actually a beacon of truth (but still far from funny)?

[ProSense]

48. Sadly, the joke isn't haha funny. n/t

[ProSense]

49. Further Debunking the 'War Zone' Myth

Further Debunking the 'War Zone' Myth

Thursday, March 27, 2008; Page A08



As then-first lady Pat Nixon landed at the presidential palace in Saigon
on July 31, 1969, her pilot, Col. Gene Boyer, pulled her away from the
tail rotor. That, Boyer says, was a war zone. (Nixon Library)

The Clinton campaign has cited newspaper accounts, including one in The Washington Post, to bolster the senator's claim that her now-famous March 1996 trip to Bosnia was the first visit to a "war zone" by a first lady since World War II. She is overlooking a trip to Saigon by Pat Nixon at the height of the Vietnam War as well as a trip by Barbara Bush to Saudi Arabia two months before the Persian Gulf War began.

THE FACTS

Just because something has appeared in a newspaper does not mean that is entirely accurate. The Clinton camp has circulated a March 26, 1996, quote from a Post article describing Clinton's Bosnia trip as "the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone." The article went on to say that "other first ladies have visited troops abroad but never in front-line positions," citing the examples of Bush and Nixon.

How these factoids got into the Post story is unclear, but they offer a somewhat misleading picture of the relative risks being run by the three first ladies. By almost any measure, the Nixon trip to Saigon in July 1969 should surely count as the most dangerous of the three visits. Unlike Bosnia in March 1996 and Saudi Arabia in November 1990, South Vietnam was an actual, not "potential," war zone in the aftermath of the 1968 Tet offensive, said retired Army Lt. Col. Gene Boyer, the Nixons' chief helicopter pilot.

"This was a combat mission," Boyer said yesterday, noting that more than 2,000 U.S. helicopter pilots were shot down and killed in Vietnam. "There were no front lines. Everything outside of Saigon was a war zone."

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