CNN.com's cover story has cast Bill Richardson as Judas.

[Bicoastal]

www.cnn.com

Unbelievable that there's any sort of discussion on this, let alone one covered by media outlets. I personally feel that when you're an elected official on a national level, your decisions should be tempered by what you feel is best for the citizens of your State, the Democratic party, and the country as a whole--in that order. Loyalty to friends and former bosses should be far down the list.

But even if you vehemently disagree with this reasoning, isn't this really a personal matter between Richardson and Hillary Clinton, not a political issue for the public?

[Citizen Kang]

1. Its not called the Clinton News Network

for nothing!

[QC]

45. That's what the freepers called it back in the 1990s.

I didn't know that anyone else did.

[Cha]

63. And it has been the mediawhores' job

to massively take down Gore, Max Cleland, Dean, Kerry, and now they're going for Obama's jugular with little miss lying asshole right beside them.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. It's ironic that the Clinton campaign position insists that SDs "vote their conscience"

unless that vote is not for Mrs. Clinton, then it doesn't "count"! :rofl:

[VolcanoJen]

51. Ha!!!!

I hadn't thought of that one yet!!!

"Superdelegates like Bill Richardson who choose Obama over Clinton DO NOT COUNT."

:rofl:

Shortened to "The Bill Richardson Doesn't Count" Strategy. :-)

[BumRushDaShow]

57. Mark Penn said

"I don’t think it is a significant endorsement in this environment."

Richardson dismissed! Doesn't count. :rofl:

[babylonsister]

3. Who's the messiah now? nt

[stellanoir]

5. bingo

[zonkers]

4. "Theirs is the wasted songs of a superstitious nightmare

and without their musical and ideological miscarriages to compare our songs of freedom to, we'd not have any opposite to compare music with. And like the drifting wind, hitting against no obstacle, we'd never know it's speed, it's power."


Part of a bigger quote from woody you know who.

[Bicoastal]

9. Woodpecker?

[zonkers]

41. Yup....

http://members.aol.com/kquinn713/woody.wav

[MADem]

6. I imagine they're discussing the Carville comments, which a lot of people agree with.

If you think BR's decision was anything but a very calculated bet, a backing in the hopes of getting SECSTATE, you're giving him more credit than he actually merits.

If Clinton looked like she was a sure bet he would have been with her a long time ago. Richardson is doing what he thinks is best for Richardson--there isn't any profound ideological sense working here. He'll then, if things go his way, "take the credit" as a uniter, not a divider (we know how that shit worked out for someone else...).

If things don't go as he hopes, he'll slink away, and later try to make amends.

Whatever. He can do what he wants.

[Bicoastal]

8. You sound pissed.

Why take it so personally?

[MADem]

16. I don't "sound" like anything. I'm typing. You are reading, and apparently, MISreading.

Off you go, "Doctor Laura."

Your analysis is about as sharp as that one's!

:rofl:

[Bicoastal]

21. Hey, hey, hey--just making an observation.

No need to call me names.

[MADem]

35. No need to "characterize" my commentary without evidence, either.

:hi:

What goes around, and all that...

[U4ikLefty]

48. Evidence

"If you think BR's decision was anything but a very calculated bet, a backing in the hopes of getting SECSTATE, you're giving him more credit than he actually merits. "

unmerited attack number one.


"...Richardson is doing what he thinks is best for Richardson--there isn't any profound ideological sense working here."

number two.


"He'll then, if things go his way, "take the credit" as a uniter, not a divider (we know how that shit worked out for someone else...). If things don't go as he hopes, he'll slink away, and later try to make amends."

...and number three.

[MADem]

62. You can call it an unmerited attack, but that doesn't MAKE it an unmerited attack.

All you have to do is look at Richardson's OWN words about his feelings for Hillary Clinton and then contrast them with his actions to see that his motives were political, and opportunistic.

But if you don't care to see the forest for the trees, that's your issue. And it isn't an "attack" to say what is self-evident to anyone who isn't lost in the woods.

Here's some light reading for you on Mister Richardson's ability to swing with the breeze: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/a-few-unanswered-question_b_92751.html

If that's not "opportunistic" then nothing is.

:hi:

[okasha]

10. Exactly.

Guili acted out of pure self interest.

[GarbagemanLB]

12. I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune if he had come out for Hillary...

[MADem]

31. No. I wouldn't.

That's a foolish assertion to make, even if you meant it to be funny or snarky. The very association of BR with BC is what makes the endorsement noticeable, even though his Rodney King "all get along" reasoning doesn't sell me much.

I simply wouldn't be surprised if he'd gone the other way. His actions are surprising, because he'd be a nobody in low level state government--if that--if it weren't for those "evil Clintons" that everyone likes to vilify of late. Funny how they are "The Clintons" when it suits their opponents, but then, when it comes to endorsements, these same opponents insist that loyalty to Bill is not translatable as loyalty to Hillary.

It's probably useful, this endorsement, in the long run to them. It's good to know who your friends actually are. It might not help BR as much as he hopes, either--if someone can toss a friendship of decades over the side for political reasons so easily, they can do it to the next person they glom onto, as well.

BR is going to have to work like a packmule in the general if BO gets the nom, and if he doesn't deliver Mister and Mrs. Juan Valdez for Obama, he'll be a footnote in history filed under "craven political misstep." If, OTOH, he delivers the latino vote and BO wins, he'll be SECSTATE. That's the gamble he's taking, here.

[GarbagemanLB]

32. God forbid Richardson choose the party and his country over 'owed' loyalties.

[MADem]

33. I provided an analysis of the situation. I really don't care one way or the other what

God might, or might not, forbid.

I called it as I saw it, as I believe BR views it.

If you actually think BR has other, sweeter, purer, and more sincere motives, say so plainly. Don't get all dramatic and drag God into the mix.

[Bake]

49. And you wouldn't be saying that if he'd endorsed HRC.

So predictable. Richardson is a nothing (what was he polling when he dropped out of the race? 5%?), but he is a Judas.

Bake

[XemaSab]

43. Check this article out and tell me which one you'd endorse:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/politics/23richardson.html?ex=1361509200&en=a9415e7a51e6191c&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[MADem]

74. I saw that article, and I think he made the wrong choice. NT

[Estel]

13. Exactly right

[DrFunkenstein]

7. Bush Will Never Be Called a Judas

He stood by Rumsfeld, Scooter Libby, Alberto Gonzalez, "Brownie" and every other incompetent buffoon that graced our Executive branch over the past 7 years.

[LiberalAndProud]

27. You neglected to mention Condi.

So I'll mention her for you. Condolezza Rice is a disaster.

[ZombieHorde]

11. If it was not for Judas, Jesus would not have died for our sins.

Judas is a Biblical hero.

[XemaSab]

44. Gnosticism! OH NOES!

:o

[ZombieHorde]

46. Is that a Gnostic belief?

A dear friend of mine was exploring Gnosticism, but he never shared that with me.

[jazzjunkysue]

58. Some Gnostics claim Jesus asked Judas to turn him in. It was the big plan.

Talk about your "chosen people." Shit. Choose someone else. I give up my place in line.

[XemaSab]

59. I'm pretty sure it's Gnostic;

I'm TOTALLY sure it's heretical. :D

[Bake]

50. Bad theology.

And another good reason why religion and politics don't mix very well.

Bake

[ZombieHorde]

61. What makes it bad theology?

Judas turning Jesus in to the proper authorities led to the crucifixion, where Jesus died for our sins.

[Bake]

65. It gets into the whole "predestination" issue.

To say that somebody had to betray Jesus, so it might as well have been Judas, doesn't make him a biblical hero. Foreknowledge of something does not equte to causation. Judas had a choice; he made the wrong one (although you can then open up the whole issue that Judas did it to force Jesus' hand into becoming the kind of militaristic, kick-Rome-in-the-ass kind of Messiah that Judas and others were expecting).

In the end, Judas was overcome by his own guilt and hanged himself.

Bake

[ZombieHorde]

66. Hey, I think that you are right.

He did it for the cash, he did not realize the good in his deeds. Judas just got demoted to accidental hero.

[Bake]

67. I actually lean towards the idea that he did it for "good" motives.

That is, that he wanted to force Jesus' hand into becoming a political Messiah, of the kind expected in a segment of Jewish thought at that time, the kind of Messiah that would lead an armed revolt against Rome. His motives were wrong, of course, because he was too blinded by his own preconceptions to understand Jesus' message and ministry. It was that blindness that ultimately undid Judas, and upon his realization of that, he hanged himself.

At best, he is a tragic, not heroic, figure.

Bake

[ZombieHorde]

68. I thought that the Bible said that he did it for 30 pieces of silver.

[Bake]

69. He did get paid, of course.

But that may not reveal his entire motivation.

If he did it just for the money, then he merited the "damned for all time" moniker.

Bake

[ZombieHorde]

70. If he did it just for the money, then he merited the "damned for all time" moniker.

If that is true then he will get to meet our President.

[Bake]

71. True dat!!

And on this Easter Sunday, a big AMEN to that!!

Bake

[boppers]

75. Two pieces of your narrative, while traditional, are only that.

Other readings can indicate:
A) Jesus asked Judas to do it, and Judas complied.
B) For following Jesus's words and wishes, the other disciples beat him to death (Acts 1;18).

There's a whole chunk of alternate texts and narratives that never made it into current Canon, because they were anathema to various early church leaders. The Gospel of Judas is one of those texts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

[K Gardner]

14. I am disgusted, I am sickened by the abhorent conduct of our media outlets, like they're FLAMEBAIT

providers.. unbelievable ! :mad:

[babylonsister]

15. Somebody Needs An Anger Management Class

http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/somebody-needs-an-anger-management-class/

Somebody Needs An Anger Management Class
By: Phoenix Woman Sunday March 23, 2008 11:00 am

Photo by dipfan



The news of New Mexico governor and long-time Hillary Clinton friend Bill Richardson's endorsement of Barack Obama was officially and cleverly greeted by Clinton campaign adviser Mark Penn with a yawn. But apparently James Carville didn't get the memo:

Mr. Clinton helped elevate Mr. Richardson to the national stage by naming him his energy secretary and ambassador to the United Nations. And Mr. Clinton left no doubt that he viewed Mr. Richardson’s support as important to his wife’s campaign: He even flew to New Mexico to watch the Super Bowl with Mr. Richardson as part of the Clintons’ high-profile courtship of him.

But Mr. Richardson stopped returning Mr. Clinton’s calls days ago, Mr. Clinton’s aides said. And as of Friday, Mr. Richardson said, he had yet to pick up the phone to tell Mr. Clinton of his decision.

The reaction of some of Mr. Clinton’s allies suggests that might have been a wise decision. “An act of betrayal,” said James Carville, an adviser to Mrs. Clinton and a friend of Mr. Clinton.

“Mr. Richardson’s endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic,” Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

Ooooh, snap!

Frankly, Jimmy, you're a fine one to talk about betrayal, considering that you've been one of the voices leading the rearguard action against Howard Dean's efforts to undo the a) shoving of the party ever further towards Republicanism and b) concentration of power in the hands of a few well-paid DC-based elite consultants like, oh, say, James Carville:

Flush with victory after the election, Rahm’s allies, led by Carville, try to mount a coup at the DNC by publicly attacking Dean and suggesting he be replaced by Harold Ford, a Tennessee moderate who just lost a Senate race. “You can’t go into 2008 having a party chairman that is completely disconnected from the congressional leadership and the campaign committees,” Carville tells me, further pounding the wedge that divides the Deaniacs and the Clintonites. When I ask if Rahm agrees, Carville says, “It’s not any secret that Rahm has expressed disdain for Dean and not very secret that Rahm and I are close. It doesn’t take a lot of dot-connecting here.”

What about the Clintons, who, given Hillary’s presidential ambitions, have more cause for concern about who runs the DNC in 2008? “Let’s just say nobody has called me telling me this is a bad idea. Sometimes silence is eloquence.” Not only did Carville’s coup fail but it arguably strengthened Dean, who, speaking before his state-party allies, mocked the attempt as a desperate attack from the “old Democratic Party.” Cutting his losses, Rahm quickly leaked word to the press that he and Dean had negotiated a truce.

If it's betrayal of Bill and Hillary Clinton that really torques you, where were you when their very good friend Joe Lieberman first stuck a shiv into the backs of the Clintons, back in September of 1998? And what about when, after Bill Clinton stumped for Holy Joe in 2006, Lieberman turned around and endorsed McCain, not Hillary? Where was your scorching condemnation then? Instead of attacking Bill Richardson, you might be better served by minding your own store -- you know, trying to avoid picking up paychecks from right-wing political parties in Latin America, that sort of thing.

[VolcanoJen]

53. Two snaps and a circle, girlfriend

:toast: :toast: :toast:

[anamandujano]

17. "Richardson: 'I am very loyal to the Clintons'"

Still hedging his bets? :rofl:

[Forkboy]

24. Or he's not a simplistic black and white thinking moron.

[BeyondGeography]

39. Which would explain his current difficulties with the Clintonistas

[Forkboy]

40. Yes, it sure would.

[anamandujano]

73. He's a self-serving moron.

[Forkboy]

77. Yes, we're familiar with your deep analysis here.

[Kierkegaard]

18. It is a personal matter, but

we both know that objectivity, journalistic integrity, fairness, etc are rarely espoused by the M$M and certainly aren't conducive to their bottom line. The media whores smell a buck. They have become very adept at spinning nothing into days or weeks of controversy and hence, big money.

[NashVegas]

19. Title:" Richardson: "I am very loyal to the Clintons" And Your Problem Is ... What, Exactly?

This was a big deal to a lot of people. That Richardson was so close to the Clintons for so long is what made the endorsement a coup in many Obama supporters' eyes.

[better tomorrow]

20. that must have come out of Lou Dobbs mouth.....

[sueragingroz]

22. about 30 but most are tombstoned.

[sueragingroz]

23. when an important politician is seen as "biting the hand that fed him", it's news...

[ecstatic]

25. I wonder how this deeply personal smear is going over in the Latino community

Finally, Latinos get a taste of the true Clinton Machine. But of course, at least according to Penn, the Latino vote won't matter now.

[Colobo]

29. Hopefully Univision will notice this.

[ecstatic]

36. I just checked out the Univision message boards

A lot of the posters seem to be furious with Bill Richardson and Obama.

[Forkboy]

26. I miss wyldwolf and his upstanding support of Bill.

[ulysses]

34. where is he, anyway?

[Forkboy]

37. I don't know, but his spirit lives on!

:)

[gravity]

28. I don't have any problems with it

He is supporting Obama despite his loyalties to the Clintons. It doesn't make the story rosey for the Clinton camp.

[nsd]

30. "... loyal to the family ..."

What is this? The Mafia?

[Yael]

38. But it IS personal to the Clinton News Network

Richardson dissed family in their minds...

[CitizenLeft]

42. I agree.

And this notion about SD's going against their constituents... I'm willing to bet you that Corrine Brown's constituents in Florida did NOT support Hillary Clinton... just as my own representative's district DID NOT support Hillary Clinton - my rep. is Stephanie Tubbs-Jones. So that argument against the Kennedys and Richardson evens out both ways.

[Cha]

64. You agree that Guv Bill Richardson is

a Judas? And do you agree that hilary clinton is a lying warmonger, too?

[CitizenLeft]

76. nooooooooooo!

I agree with this part of the OP:

"I personally feel that when you're an elected official on a national level, your decisions should be tempered by what you feel is best for the citizens of your State, the Democratic party, and the country as a whole--in that order. Loyalty to friends and former bosses should be far down the list."

And in this case, NM's primary was so close that Richardson should be free to choose anyway.

You read me wrong! And not only that, but I'm an Obama supporter. *gives you a gentle V-8 whack*

[karynnj]

47. This is the the problem with a First Lady running

A huge percent of people currently in the Democratic party have worked for Clinton, directly or indirectly. He has also done fund raising and campaigning for many. But, to turn around and say that because of this they are obligated to vote her his wife to give them another 4 plus years in the White House is not fair.

Just as he worked for most Democrats, they ALL worked hard for him and fought for him for 15 plus years. Many gave him credibility on issues where it was needed.

[dailykoff]

52. Thanks for that bulletin from the CIA.

Keep looking for WMD, boys. :rofl:

[cooolandrew]

54. Carville should be judged for ssaying it than Richardson.

[cooolandrew]

55. Carville should be judged for ssaying it than Richardson.

[BenDavid]

56. well gee, following the obigot08 thought: since HRC won NM

then the gov should have supported HRC.

[jazzjunkysue]

60. Calls him a sell out, not a murderer. "Judas" was not in the headline.

"Richardson was asked Sunday about James Carville's comment that Richardson's Obama endorsement "came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver." Carville is an adviser to Clinton's presidential campaign and a CNN political analyst."

I think the point is that Richardson sold to the obvious winner, instead of backing the loser and going over the cliff with her. And you can't blame the media for covering Carville: He's HRC's loudest surrogate. He's doing his job and the media is covering him.

Everyone is trying so hard to miss the real point: HRC's done.

[Mooney]

72. The Richardson=Judas meme is hands down the stupidest thing I've heard this season.

It's amazing too that it comes from James Carville, who fucks Mary Matalin. He has no place discussing loyalty, integrity or any other positive human trait.