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Only Four Weeks Left For Hillary Clinton?

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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:37 PM
Original message
Only Four Weeks Left For Hillary Clinton?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 03:43 PM by KansasVoter
On April 22nd is the Pennsylvania primary with 158 delegates up for grabs. There are 10 states left including Pennsylvania. The current polls on Real Clear Politics shows Clinton with about a 17 point average lead in Pennsylvania. That is a huge number, bigger than any but a couple of her wins in the past.

The best poll for Clinton shows her with a 26 point lead in Pennsylvania, 63%-37%. Let’s assume that poll is correct even though it is almost impossible to win by that amount. That 26 point win in Pennsylvania is still not enough to overtake Obama. Actually, a 26 point win in ALL of the remaining 10 states would still put Clinton behind by 10 delegates going into Denver. Not counting the super delegates.

Now, if Clinton really wins the 10 remaining states by 26 points I would grant you that the super delegates have a right to with Hillary. Those wins in the remaining 10 states would mean that Clinton has the momentum. It would be very hard to go with Obama with 10 26% losses in a row.

But remember, Obama won 12 contests in a row by huge margins. The lowest was by 17%. So unless Hillary wins the 10 remaining states by over 20 points there is no way the super delegates can justify voting for her. And if they do you will see a huge set of motivated Obama voters lose faith, along with their $30-50 Million dollars a month that they have donated to Obama.

And Hillary was ahead in Ohio by 20 points two weeks before the election. She won by 9 points. She was up by 17 points in Texas two weeks before the election. She won by less than 5 percent and actually gained fewer delegates because of the Texas split primary. And we NOW have 4 weeks until Pennsylvania.

So the main question is what number does Hillary need to win with in Pennsylvania that will convince her that she is done? If she wins Pennsylvania by ONLY %60-%40 then the remaining states need to be won by 65%-35%....almost impossible. If she only wins Pennsylvania by 15 points she needs the rest of the states %66-%34.And if she wins Pennsylvania by only 10 points, her BIG win number in Ohio, she needs to win the remaining states by %67-33%, a 34 point win in each state…......impossible.

And none of these calculations give Obama any wins. He should win North Carolina and other states. If he does, her remaining state numbers needed become comical.

So will Clinton quit if she only wins Pennsylvania by 10 points? I doubt it. I think her strategy is to wait and hope for another Obama scandal. She knows she cannot win by numbers alone and her only hope is that Obama screws up really bad or that Obama has some hidden secret that will come out. If the pastor issue did not derail him then I cannot see anything else doing it.

The other option is after Pennsylvania, if she did not win by more than 10 points, is that the super delegates get behind Obama and give him the needed 2025 delegates. Or at least talk to Clinton and ask her to bow out on her own before they abandon her.

One question I would love to ask Hillary is this “Would you rather win the nomination and lose the general election or have Obama win the nomination and win the general election”. I am afraid Hillary would pick option one. I know Obama would rather lose the nomination and let Hillary win the general election. That is the main issue I have with Hillary, that her Ego means more than the party. We will see after Pennsylvania.
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wish. I think it will drag out until mid June. when the remaining SDs start to weigh in "en masse"
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I am afraid of that!
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Remember all the "three more days" threads before TX and OH?
We all thought that by now, all the internecine bickering would be over and we could concentrate our fire on McCain, but Rush had other plans. So I'm going to assume that Operation Chaos will continue all the way to the convention, whilst hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Or was that the day after Iowa?
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. After Iowa, Clinton was down only 1 pledged delegate to Obama.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 03:52 PM by Drunken Irishman
She's down almost 200 now.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. If that long....
I hope the party leaders are in deep discussions with the Clintons, We can not go four more weeks like the last two weeks and expect any chances in November. Richardson endorsement could be the hole in the dike that breaks the dam.

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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. four more weeks of interparty sniping......ugh.
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galactical Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Clinton Is not Dropping out.
As long as there is a chance that she can get the nomination, i don't see her dropping out.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. There is no chance
even her own people are giving her 10% chance. It's over, all this is doing now is keeping the party divided. What good reason to do this?
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. You seem to be concerned she has a chance by the theme of your post
MSM is not counting her out. There are 10 states left. Obama is up about 120 delegates, 700,000 popular votes. By the time the primaries are over this will be much closer. Also, who knows exactly what FL/MI will do. As the counts get closer the superdelegates come in to play. The SD's are not obligated to any candidate. The momentum seems to be going with Hillary as we get closer to the end of the primaries much due to Wright issues. She has an argument she won the democrat states and Obama won Republican states which will stay republican. SD's are not obligated to back Obama. If it's as close as we think, SD's could go with Hillary. This argument about the will of the people because you have a tiny bit more popular vote and just a few more seated delegates is not what the SD's were designed for. If that were the case SD's would not have been put into place. They would have just gone with who had the most popular votes and seated delegates. Then, this endorsement of Richardson will have very little impact for the upcoming primaries. So to say Hillary should drop out is purely out of greed and paranoia of Obama's supporters.
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I disagree......
The SDs will really look bad to go with Hillary for 10 wins in a row when Obama win 12 in a row by huge numbers.
I honestly think Obama fans will support Hillary if she wins fair and square. If it looks like a backdoor deal they will leave te party and not vote. That is why she needs to win PA big (> 15 points) to still have any shot.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. obigot08? More racism out of your nasty self?
I swear I would faint if you ever hammered out a post that didn't accuse someone of racism in one form or fashion.

You are an embarrassment.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. BenDavid hates Obama because his Pastor mentioned.....
that the Palestinians were being slaughtered. So he has blind views if you say anything against Israel then you are a bigot. You have to walk in lock step with Israel or else you are anti-semitic.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's going to be tough to watch Hillary
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:11 PM by BeatleBoot
win another major state over Obama - you know, the one's that matter in November to a Democratic nominee...





It will be tougher watching the Obama train wreck take down the entire party in November.


Sorry to say.







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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. true, BeatleBoot, those are important in Nov but
do you think that they will go to McCain in Nov. if Obama is the nominee? Will NY, CA, NJ and others all go red? On the flip side, Obama did better than expected in a big stream of red states. Could that not possibly help him cut into McCain's portion in those states? Truthfully I think Ohio, Fla, and PA would be Obama's biggest problems. The states that seem to decide presidencies.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I'm smelling
1972.

Not as bad, but 1972.



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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I just looked that one up. THAT was scary! I really don't see it being like that
for Clinton OR Obama. It think it will be very close though.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. question question question question
why is there such a huge difference 26% to 8% in the polls re: Clinton lead in PA

http://www.pollster.com/08-PA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. The annoying part about this
is that I think a bunch of states coming up will give Hillary some big wins.

She's not going to drop out when she's going to win half of the remaining states, but her wins in those states will not be enough to overcome Obama's lead. If she got 60% in Pennsylvania, WV, and Kentucky (which I think could happen) she would still be 70 points short of Obama. And that's without taking into account that Obama's going to win Oregon, NC, Montana, and South Dakota, widening that lead back up.

There's no freakin' way she's going to go into the convention with an even number of delegates, but if she doesn't drop out before Pennsylvania, she's not going to drop out immediately after a win there either.

Right now, her magic number is 60%, but Obama's is 47%.

The reality of the matter is that Obama can afford to eat it in a few states. Theoretically, he could lose every state from here on out and still get to 2025. Hillary, on the other hand, can't afford to lose a single state, and even a "win" of 55% in Pennsylvania would make it that much harder for her to get the nomination. That would push her magic number closer to 62%, and that's before you take favorable Obama states into account.
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gear_head Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. who is winning the popular vote in solid blue states?
my guess would be Hillary.

has anybody calculated that number?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Another justification that superdelagates could use: electoral votes
Assuming Hillary wins Pennsylvania and several others that she looks to be ahead in, her count in terms of electoral votes in November from the larger states would be significantly greater than Obama's count.

I also think they may well look at polling numbers, too. If he's behind McCain in key states (or perhaps, more telling- in states like Massachusetts or New Jersey) it's possible that a good many will consider throwing their support to Hillary- or perhaps deadlocking the convention in favor of a compromise candidate.

Whatever happens, it'll be an interesting several months.
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