Why I think Obama needs Hillary as VP

[galaxy21]

1) He's going up against the republican smear machine in the fall. Frankly, he needs someone like Hillary to take them on and play them at their own game. Sometimes you do need a bitch in your corner. Barack may be unwilling to go after Mccain's character, hillary will has no such qualms.

2) Her voters. The ones who have said they aren't willing to vote for him. He needs them, and getting Hillary on the ticket will do that.

3) She can raise some serious funds. And no can he. The more money the better.

4)Barack will still be in charge, and if Hillary gets too big for her boots, he can easily shut her out, like the clinton's did with Gore.

5) Bill's usually useful to have around.

thoughts?

[fascisthunter]

1. NOPE... But That is What She and the DLC Hope for (nt)

[galaxy21]

4. Has Hilllary even said to him 'I'll drop out if you make me VP?'

I'd be shocked if it hasn't come up.

[fascisthunter]

8. She Doesn't Have To... She Can't WIn

and her supporters are pushing for her to be the VP. It's pretty damn obvious, "make her the VP or else!".

[Hieronymus]

89. Yep, but my guess is she's not on his short list.

[PM7nj]

2. Maybe if she changes her tune...

If Hillary stops with her disgusting kitchen sink strategy and shows she can be a classy and fair opponent, then maybe I think she would be okay for VP, if only to unite the party and turn our guns towards McCain and the neocons.

[Hutzpa]

73. Not going to happen

we have passed that stage 2 months ago.....good try though.

If she wanted the VP she should have watched her statements,

she should have thought about all those bitter disgusting

kitchen sink method her and her Penn have been throwing

at Obama. Nope, not gonna happen.

[saltpoint]

3. I don't think Barack and Michelle would be much attracted to the notion of

Hillary setting herself up for 2012 in the Veep mansion, and besides, there'd be Hillary's husband hitting on the interns.

It would be uh, stressful.

Also, a Democratic ticket needs independents to win in November. Hillary Clinton isn't attracting very many.

[MADem]

18. Huh? A VP is associated with a failed administration. They don't break away and run against the

incumbent, except in Political Unreality Land.

The intern snark was real classy, too.

Obama isn't attracting too many independents post-Wright, either. But don't let that bother you.

[saltpoint]

22. O I definitely won't let it bother me.

He soared in the address in Philadelphia, MADem.

The trajectory will outlast you and me both.

The independent vote is Obama's this cycle.

Definitel not triangulating Hillary and her wayward spouse.

[MADem]

31. You are wrong about that, and his "soared in the address" has nothing to do with your post

You said:
...............................
Old Crusoe (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-23-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't think Barack and Michelle would be much attracted to the notion of
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:24 PM by Old Crusoe
Hillary setting herself up for 2012 in the Veep mansion, and besides, there'd be Hillary's husband hitting on the interns.

It would be uh, stressful.
...........................

My point--that "soared" over your head, because you are mired in Partisanville--is that the only way an incumbent would be CHALLENGED is if the administration is regarded as a FAILURE (you're so "Old"--think Ted Kennedy vs. Carter). And a VP, which, in YOUR "couldn't happen" scenario, is 'Hillary in the Veep mansion' would not be EFFECTIVE running against an incumbent, because she would be ASSOCIATED with the incumbent.

I give up. It's like trying to discuss nuclear physics in a playgroup.

[saltpoint]

49. darlin' you're awful mixed up.

There are no incumbents in the 08 cycle.

I reassert the points in my post.

If you need clarification on any of them, ask Terry McAuliffe. He's a smart guy.

[MADem]

50. Try reading what you are WRITING. The discussion point isn't THIS ELECTION

it's 2012--that YOU brought up.

So "darlin'" maybe you should "get correct" in your own head. Because you're not talking out of it, apparently.

[saltpoint]

54. Try one more time. 2012 follows 2008. Swear to god.

Check any calendar, call your local news station.

One comes before the order in the suggestion I provided.

Hillary is such a schemer that I doubt if any Democratic president would want her in as veep owing to her self-centered prep for 2012. She can't be trusted in such a scenario.

That was the point. You missed it. Darlin.

[MADem]

57. Yeah, and you were talking about how Hillary running in 2012 from the Veep mansion was a BAD idea.

Your words. Your idea. Your concept.

You don't make much sense on most days, you're making none today.

So, I'll see ya ... "darlin."

:eyes:

[saltpoint]

It is a bad idea, which is why Obama shouldn't put her on the ticket.

You got lost early in this one and stayed lost.

[MADem]

75. I rather don't think so. In fact, I know otherwise. NT

[Why Syzygy]

40. In real life the Independents are still with Obama. They still hate Hillary.

[MADem]

41. Time, and polls, will tell. I don't agree with your conclusion that "they" "hate" Clinton. NT

[saltpoint]

51. She isn't drawing them or she would have drawn them by now.

She's repelling quite a few of them, in fact.

[MADem]

53. We shall see. NT

[saltpoint]

56. We've already seen. She has no appeal to independents even before the

Iraq vote and even less after it.

[MADem]

58. We shall see. NT

[saltpoint]

60. Bill Richardson "saw" this past week that HClinton was a dirty business

and decided to throw his endorsement toward the better candidate.

Richardson brings a lot to the discussion.

All positive.

[MADem]

74. We shall see. NT

[Bake]

59. "Hillary's husband hitting on the interns..."

You must've gotten your fax with the talking points from Rush, I see.

As for the independents, they'll be running from Obama after the Wright Stuff. He's pretty much maxed out the black vote. Say hello to Pres. McCain.

Bake

[saltpoint]

62. He said he didn't have sex with her, which was untrue.

If you have a problem with Bill's womanizing, you should probably take it up with him.

[Bake]

66. I don't have a problem with Bill's womanizing. It's none of my business.

Good luck to Obama with the independents. He's going to need them to compensate for all the Democrats he's lost.

Bake

[saltpoint]

67. I don't either. If his marriage is a joke to him, that's his busines and his

wife's.

And actually the polling by late weekend shows restoration of support for Sen. Obama. He did beautifully with the address in Philadelphia and the Richardson endorsement was a welcome and valued plus.

Hillary is still thrashing around for more sinks to throw at him.

[Hippo_Tron]

78. In legal terms, sex = sexual intercourse

So he did not lie. He wasn't forthright about his relationship with her either, but frankly I don't give a shit. I'm an Obama supporter and I think the last thing we need to be doing is bringing up Monica Lewinsky.

[saltpoint]

90. It's technically true that he was not asked specifically if Miss Lewinsky

applied suction to his presidential dong.

However.

If erotic escapades include pleasure of said appendage, a case could be made for a general category of monkey business.

Adulty is legal here, not legal there. It's almost never a good idea, legal or not.

[Hippo_Tron]

92. I don't care what adultery other people take part in

The only way that Bill Clinton's adultery would concern me is if he were having sex with my wife.

[Yupster]

68. Were I Sen Obama

I wouldn't even have her on my long list of potential candidates.

The first rule of VP picks is "do no harm," and she'd fail that potential test. Why would he want to go through four years of having to explain what his VP's spouse meant to say about this issue or that.

If he wants a woman to keep Hillary's new women voters energized, there are plenty of goo candidates that won't bring so much baggage with them.

Di Fi
Boxer
Napolis
Sebulis

are just four obvious ones.

[writes3000]

5. I don't see Hillary attacking McCain. She'll continue to compliment him.

I agree that Hillary can be a fierce fighter but I don't see her taking on McCain that way.

What's the worst thing she's said about McCain so far?

[otohara]

6. The 4 Of Them Would

have to be in separate rooms of the West Wing at all times.

[blm]

7. The 'can fight back' assumption is baloney, imo. How long did the smear "Clintons trashed

the White House" last? At least 8 months till 9-11 took over the airwaves.

How about the Clinton didn't do anything about terrorism smear? That lasted till Clinton finally decided to say something about it when the ABC movie came out in Sept 2006.

[FlyingSquirrel]

9. "a bitch in your corner"?

Please restate this.

:thumbsdown:

[galaxy21]

10. I call Hillary a bitch in a complimentary way

[FlyingSquirrel]

16. Ya I got that but it is still offensive. I'm sure they won't make you change it

and I guess if you don't want to, nobody can make you. Just be aware that a lot of Hillary supporters (and possibly female Obama supporters as well) would view it as offensive. In my opinion you're detracting from your message of unity by using it in that way.

[MADem]

43. You're the only one in the world, apparently, who missed this clip.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/02/25/fey/index.html

Nice faux outrage, though...almost believable!

[FlyingSquirrel]

80. Well thanks for calling my BS

or whatever.

:sarcasm:

Sometimes I think I can't win around here.

[MADem]

83. You are most welcome...

or whatever. :sarcasm:

You score enough "wins" around here...if that's what you want to call them.

[FlyingSquirrel]

84. I totally don't get that.

Guess I haven't been around long enough to know what it means to score a win.

[flor de jasmim]

11. I guess you haven't listened to Obama's desire to make REAL changes in Wash, DC

And also in campaign style. He would undercut his own message if he had her aboard as attack dog.

[crispini]

12. Hillary has no such qualms taking on McCain's character?

Haven't seen that out of the Clinton corner yet this season. :P

Her money? Isn't she in the hole by like 2 mil or something.

Bill? He's made kind of an ass out of himself lately, no?

Her voters? Ok, yes. Maybe

I still think he's going to pick Richardson. :D

[DearAbby]

34. LOL! The vicious Hillary attack on McCain...

"Would you like another pillow John?"

[Sensitivity]

13. Hillary and McCain are FRIENDS. We need someone who doesn't give a flying f* re McCains heroism

[galaxy21]

14. Hillary and Obama where freinds too.. and shes had no problem playing dirty with him.

[MADem]

87. So are Lieberman and Obama. In fact, Holy Joe was MENTOR to his young protege, Obama.

There are a hundred people in the Senate.

It is VERY collegial. There are friendships across the aisle, that despite past strains are thriving now, way more so since that fucker Frist has left.

One "odd couple" that always made me do a double-take were JOHN KERRY and TRENT LOTT. Best of friends. Watched each others' backs.

[jenmito]

15. 1) Why would Hillary take on McCain? Both she AND her husband have praised him at the

expense of Obama and the Clintons both keep claiming she's friends with McCain and would run a "respectful, honorable campaign."

2) Don't worry. Her voters will vote for him, especially if he puts another woman on the ticket (not Hillary) or promises Hillary a position in his cabinet.

3) No she can't. She has to loan herself money and count on large donations from rich donors. Anyone else he puts on the ticket will be able to do as well or better than Hillary.

4) That makes no sense as a reason she needs to be his VP.

5) Bill would be used in ANY Dem. administration.

[galaxy21]

19. If we deal in the dreaded demographics...what other female VP could attract the hispanic vote?

[jenmito]

25. Probably any white female. Barbara Boxer, Jane Harmon, Sibelius, etc.

[okasha]

20. You're dead wrong about 2).

n/t

[jenmito]

26. That's your opinion.

[okasha]

30. As your 2) is yours.

What you're not computing is that people who won't vote for Obama, won't vote for him because of Obama himself. It has nothing to do with who's VP or whether they support Hillary.

[jenmito]

52. And?

People ewho won't vote for Hillary won't vote for her because of her herself. If he picks her as VP, it MAY keep some people home since he spoke out against everything she stands for.

[okasha]

63. You're still not getting it.

You're assuming that one "white woman" is interchangeable with any other "white woman." (Would that be a "typical white woman," by the way?) You're assuming that people will vote for him because of the race and/or gender of a running mate.

What I'm saying is that people who will not vote for Obama will not vote for Obama, regardless of who is or is not on the ticket with him. It's Obama who's toxic. Obama himself--which is why he won't be on a unity ticket if HC manages to pull it out in the last leg of the primaries.

[jenmito]

64. So then you disagree with the OP.

And many women openly SAY they're voting for Hillary because she's a woman and it's "time" we have a woman president. :hi:

[okasha]

70. I disagree that the situation will arise.

If it should, and Obama is the nominee, then I disagree that Hillary or the Democratic Party would gain any advantage by her placing herself on a losing ticket.

[jenmito]

79. Then why didn't you respond to the OP?

[okasha]

81. Why should I have?

n/t

[jenmito]

82. It's the topic of the thread. If you disagreed with it in some way, why wouldn't you say so?

[okasha]

85. Because I chose to respond to you instead. . .

you lucky devil.

[Lerkfish]

17. Hillary is toxic to any ticket, IMHO

Obama taking her on as VP would be like McCain hugging Bush after Rove attacks.

[joeybee12]

21. You're right, of course, but the Bots are blinded by love of BO and hate

of Hilary...I'd add one more thing...she'll get the working class behind the ticket, the people who are very wary of him right now that he actually understands their concerns.

[Eurobabe]

23. Fuggeddaboutit.

Pass, thanks. :hi:

[dailykoff]

24. Uh, I think Bill just got the job.

And I don't mean big dog.

[Raine]

27. NO, that would doom Obama for sure

a ticket with someone for everybody to hate on it...that would really bring out both the racists and sexests to vote for MacCain. One or the other...Obama or Hillary for the nomination but NOT on the same ticket. Teaming them up is disasterious.

[DearAbby]

28. Well, lets go over these one by one....m'kay?

1) He's going up against the republican smear machine in the fall. Frankly, he needs someone like Hillary to take them on and play them at their own game. Sometimes you do need a bitch in your corner. Barack may be unwilling to go after Mccain's character, hillary will has no such qualms. Obama has been doing well, against Hillary's attacks and the GOP attacks. Look around you, the attacks by the Clinton's are not doing her campaign any good. Don't underestimate Obama.

2) Her voters. The ones who have said they aren't willing to vote for him. He needs them, and getting Hillary on the ticket will do that. I believe the majority of Democrats will be voting for Democrats in November, those who are saying otherwise 7 months from the election. I feel they are just expressing their disappointment and frustration, their candidate didn't make it, they will come around given time, those who don't? Meeh!

3) She can raise some serious funds. And so can he. The more money the better. Obama has been pulling in some very serious amounts of money, is coming to 2 million donors. He is pulling in 1-2 million dollars per day.

4)Barack will still be in charge, and if Hillary gets too big for her boots, he can easily shut her out, like the clinton's did with Gore. You honestly believe this is a good way to govern?

5) Bill's usually useful to have around. Seems Big dawg has stepped in it quite a bit lately. Sometimes retirement is a good thing. I am sure if Obama needs advise from elder statesmen, he can rely on WJC as well as anyone, even if HRC isn't sitting as VP.

[quakerboy]

29. my thoughts

As to #1: pastor-gate has shown his character in dealing with smear loud and clear. He doesn't need help with that, and I would argue that my fathers irrational hate of Hillary Clinton demonstrates that she is far less adept at dealing with it. Thus, I would see her assistance as a step backwards in this regard.

As to #2: I think that after she steps out, people will reassess their options. When it is fully down to Obama or McCain, all but the small percentage of born Naderites will realize where the best interests of the country lie. Tensions and partisanship are high right now, but will start to fade as soon as her bid for the presidency ends.

As to #3: Much as #1, I think her assistance here is a step backwards. There are many fundraisers available, if thats what Obama feels he needs in a VP. But her fund raising is the wrong type, in my opinion. Leave the business money where it is and stay looking as clean as possible, and we can hit McCain where he lives all the more effectively. I don't want lobbyists on my bus, thank you.

As to #4: Why not look to the future, since that seems to be a big part of the Obama draw. Hillary is now or never, and after Obama's 8 years she is not going to be the next Dem candidate. And once you let a Clinton in, shutting them out is not so easy, as this campaign and others have shown.

As to #5: I think the current campaign has given the lie to that. And even if Hillary "merely" stays a senator, its not like the big dog is gonna go spend the next 8 years in the Bahamas with no phone. He is an ex prez, and I do think he will be there for the country if we need him.


For me, its about the future. I appreciate and learn from the past, but I don't live there. I strongly believe that putting Barack and Clinton together accentuates the negatives of each, and lessens the positives of each. I am a huge proponent of letting Mr. Obama choose his own running mate.

[BlueJac]

32. What planet did you just come from?

[anonymous171]

33. HRC as speaker would be cool...

[moobu2]

35. I wouldnt vote for Barack even if that were the case

[MessiahRp]

36. He doesn't need every Republican coming out just to vote against Hillary

Just talked to my gf's neo-con mother. She said if it's McCain-Obama she'll stay home. If Hillary's on the ticket she'll come out and vote Republican just to vote against Hillary. Think that this is not the case nationally? Ask yourself why has Hillary been getting tons of Republican votes the last few primary states? They want her as the nominee because they know she's the GOP's only chance.

Putting her ANYWHERE on the ticket is Democratic Suicide.

Rp

[tokenlib]

37. But she can't play basketball, so give it up...or can she??? n/t

[mopinko]

38. hillary fights the smear machine, and

loses every time. this is THE lamest reason to support hill in the book.

[Why Syzygy]

39. Absofrickenlutely not.

5) Bill is a problem child. I'm sure he would enjoy access to interns again, but we can live without it.

4) BS No one can shut her up. Evidence her obnoxious campaign.

3) SHE IS IN DEBT!

2) They are traitors. If they REALLY need a DINO in office, then McCain will suit them fine.

1) She should have already done so. She has endorsed the Republican f*cker. You're quite out of touch with reality on this one.

A) WE HATE HER! Obama does not need a dead weight around his neck as Gore had.

[tamzins]

42. The last thing Obama needs is Hillary as his VP

How could Obama even respect, let alone like Hillary enough for this position, when she has demaned, and damaged his candidacy to such an extent?
I would not trust her further than I could throw her. I bet that's what she's hoping for, and the next thing you know, he's assassinated, and voila, she becomes president. There is so much dark energy surrounding Hillary (think Lady Macbeth), that I think she'll be a real danger in that or any other position in his administration. He has a large pool of talented endorsers from which to draw on for the VP slot. It should be someone he can trust, not somebody who will stab him in the back.

[grantcart]

44. Question if she joins the ticket won't she lose the $ 30 million in GE funds

that she now has on hand and can use for future elections -


I think that her wanting the spot is a canard. I don't think she really wants it

[ThatBozGuy]

45. Why I think Obama doesn't need hillary

1) He's going up against the republican smear machine in the fall. Frankly, he needs someone like Hillary to take them on and play them at their own game. Sometimes you do need a bitch in your corner. Barack may be unwilling to go after Mccain's character, hillary will has no such qualms.

Ms Clinton IS the Republican smear machine in the fall. Ms Clinton is fighting for her political life and Mr Obama has fairly easily displaced even her "kitchen sink" hits.

Make no mistake, Mr Obama is quite capable in fighting FOR the Democrats, do not mistake his not wanting to fight WITH Democrats as a measure of his capablility.

There is no question Ms Clinton has no qualms, but she has shown that desperation say anything to get elected attitude doesn't play well with the voter base.

2) Her voters. The ones who have said they aren't willing to vote for him. He needs them, and getting Hillary on the ticket will do that.

While he does need some, many of those will come from Ms Clintons supporters who will vote for the Democrat Nominee, the ones that will not vote for the Democratic nominee will be die hard anti no matter what and that includes no matter what Ms Clinton says.

3) She can raise some serious funds. And no can he. The more money the better.

Ms Clinton can not raise more money from the people, much of that base is tapped out in her base and that is exactly why she is in trouble in the money situation today (not withstanding poor management also)

Mr Obama will not accept or run a campaign with her "other" sources of fundraising.

4)Barack will still be in charge, and if Hillary gets too big for her boots, he can easily shut her out, like the clinton's did with Gore.

Ms Clinton has demonstrated in her " I will offer him VP " while she was losing denial scenario exactly why this will not work, and one only has to look at the current administration to see how a powerful, driven vice president can be more dangerous than a president.

5) Bill's usually useful to have around.

Mr Clinton has shown in every presidential campaign since he left office why he can be more of a liability than an asset.

Look how he "helped" Mr Gore, look at the liability he has been for Ms Clinton, that far outweighs the asset of him connected to the presidency.

Is he an asset to the party, many would say yes, but he would be that asset to the party with out being the VPs first man, probably much more easily.

Mr and Ms Clinton bring a lot of negatives to the ticket to be used against Mr Obama in his bid as the democratic nominee and much of it comes from their own statements agaisnt him, not just their detractors.

[Cha]

46. Fuck hilary's lying smear machine..she's

got cooties.

[Lucky 13]

47. We need Hillary as VP...

...like we need a freakin hole in the head.

[tinrobot]

48. Nope... she'd pull a Lieberman

Not going to happen.

[Window]

55. NO. Thank you.

[Skidmore]

61. A few weeks ago, I would have agreed with you, especially after

Edwards dropped out. Obama/Edwards was my first choice and would still be a good one. However, I think any chance of a unity ticket has been killed by the tactics Hillary has used. I would hope that the Democratic Party would not continue to reward someone who manipulated the most base and vile racist factions of our nation in such a cynical manner. And, furthermore, I believe that Hillary and Bill would actively work during an entire Obama/Clinton administration to sabotage him.

As for those who claim to support her but won't vote for anyone else later, I am strongly skeptical that they exist is such large numbers. Chances are a portion of them are simply being spoilers now.

[bowens43]

65. Any ticket with hillary is loser.

Not only would hillary as VP cause us to lose the presidency, it will also cuase us to lose the senate and maybe the house.

[dkf]

69. Hell NOOO!

[DerekJ]

71. Tinfoil hat on.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
If Obama picks Hillary as a VP, Obama will be assassinated within a year.

Plus:

1- No. Instead of just having Obama to Attack, now they will have a Hillary with a wealth of scandals. Energize the Republican Party to vote against her, and loose any appeal Obama might have with some who are disappointed with their party republicans.

2- They will come around, the idea of McCain as a president is scary enough to overcome their hate.

3- You are joking right? She is already broke. He has 2 million donors. What funds?!! Through lobbyists yes, and that we don't want.

4- :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

5-He is becoming as senile as McCain.

[goldcanyonaz]

72. He can't win without her voters and she can't win without his.

[TwilightGardener]

76. So far Obama is the only one taking McCain on. Hillary and Bill can't stop gushing.

[Hoof Hearted]

77. It is the ONLY way I will vote for him. Period.

I will NOT vote for McCain, ever, but neither will I for Obama unless Hillary is on the ticket.

[BattyDem]

86. How can Obama have a VP on the ticket who ...

praised the GOP candidate over him? Can you imagine the ads?

"Hillary Clinton believes John McCain is better prepared than Barack Obama to handle that 3:00 AM phone call. If Obama's own running mate doesn't believe he's the best man for the job, why should you? Vote for John McCain."

There was a time when Obama/Clinton would have been an unbeatable ticket, but that time has passed. :-(

[Tatiana]

88. In January, I would have grudgingly supported this. Now?

Not really. I will never say never, but Obama really needs to start off with a clean slate.

Now, if Hillary pulled a Gore, denouncing and rejecting the DLC, I'd maybe warm to the ticket. (And don't discount this. Al Gore, Howard Dean, and John Edwards are just a few former centrists who saw the light and became powerful advocates of and for the people.)

I'd LOVE to have her on board. But DLC connections plus her HUSBAND make that near impossible.

[crankychatter]

91. He'll need a food tester

just sayin'