Should all SuperDelgates be forced to vote the way their States did?

[MethuenProgressive]

Poll question: Should all SuperDelgates be forced to vote the way their States did?

Should John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and Bill Richardson be forced to vote for Clinton?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. That's what O folks have been screaming in support of for months

[MadBadger]

4. No, we are saying they should not overturn the will of the people.

Edit: Meaning national will of the people (Pledged delegates)

[Skip Intro]

9. Which would mean Kerry, Kennedy, Richardson should vote for Hillary?

[MadBadger]

11. not of their states, of the nation. Whoever leads in pledged delegates should win.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. If that were the case the party wouldn't have Super Delegates to begin with

Talk about dead weight. We should have made them robots in the first place, or changed the rules if people didn't want Super Delegates. There are good arguments in favor of Super Delegates, but the bottom line is they are in the rules that this contest is being played by.

So are caucuses, and a have a truck load of issues with selecting Democratic delegates via caucuses rather than primaries. I can make a good case against them but they are in the rules this contest is being played by. If I want to eliminate caucuses the time for me to do so is before the next Democratic contest, not during it. Same for those who don't like Super Delegates and the rules under which they operate.

[MadBadger]

27. Ultimately I agree that they can do whatever the fuck they want

I just think they shouldnt overturn the pledged delegates. In reality though I want them gone as do I want the caucuses gone too.

[ClassWarrior]

40. I think if the SD vote is a clean one, they'll vote with the people on their own.

By clean, I mean unmanipulated by strongarm tactics.

NGU.

[MethuenProgressive]

14. Exactly, elsewhere.

Situational logic is being embraced by the Obama supporters.

[grantcart]

22. That is the classical straw man of the Clinton campaign

there has not been a huge out cry as you say.

There is a consensus amongst virtually all superdelegates, including Clinton supporters, that the superdelegates should not conspire to overturn the primary/caucus results without an overwhelmingly compelling reason.

[MethuenProgressive]

32. "the superdelegates should not conspire" ? "conspire"??

The Obama camp sees conspiracies everywhere!
:rofl:

[grantcart]

43. Quite to the contrary I see no conspiracy at all.

What I said is that there is a consensus agreement amongst super delegates that there should be no conspiracy to overturn the will of the primary and caucus system. To that end a number of super delegates have gone on record stating that and indicating that once a candidate gets 50% of the pledged delegates they should become the nominee. I believe Speaker Pelosi's comments are quite specific.

211 more pledged delegates and Sen. Obama will have won the majority of pledged delegates. At that point I believe that a large number of super delegates will act.

[MethuenProgressive]

48. ...

....

[Capn Sunshine]

41. This O person says let the system work

Unlike many of you , I still trust the Democratic Party system to deliver the nomination to the best candidate.

There's no question who that is this go-round, and at the end of the primaries Hillary will drop out and endorse Obama like the second place finisher is supposed to do.

[DJ13]

2. Neither

SD's should vote the will of the majority of pledged delegates, which is totally different from either choice you presented.

[fascisthunter]

3. There Should Be No Such Thing as a "Super Delegate" (nt)

[Hugabear]

5. I'll second that

It's a dumb idea. Just let the voters decide.

[patrick t. cakes]

13. agreed

or caucuses.
let the people VOTE.

[RichardRay]

39. Do, do we go to a 'winner take all' model like the RNC?

The SD's are there based on harsh experience in the past. The proportional split of state delegates based on primary and caucus outcomes has resulted in some pretty ugly self-emolations in the past. If we're gonna have proportional representation, then we need SD's.

Unless you mean that 'the voters decide' is a popular vote total nation wide for a single inter galactic primary? That's gonna be hard to take for some of the states in the middle where the food is grown and the minerals are harvested and the parks are set aside. We already feel somewhat like 'colonies' of the coasts. That would pretty much put us over the edge.

[SoCalDem]

6. Not unless that was the understanding in the beginning..

If there is no directive implied or specified, my guess is that they are to follow their own conscience.. there are soooopers who are not governors, congresspeople, senators.. Should Gore be forced to follow tennessee? or DC or wherever he lives now? Hillary lives in DC, should she cast hers for Obama?

technically ALL the senators & congresspeople "live" in DC more than their home states, so should they all vote for Obama?

[kid a]

7. God BLESS America! How patriotic of you...how many little yellow magnets on your car.

You're a hoot.

[mmonk]

8. I think the superdelegates should make up their minds

based on electoral and popular vote totals with slight deference to state totals. However there is nothing to compel them to do so.

[dailykoff]

10. Pelosi said they'll honor the pledged delegate choice

so I'm guessing that means they'll be voting for Obama, if it gets that far, which I very strongly doubt.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. And Pelosi has what control over them? None at all, right?

[dailykoff]

44. She's the top elected Dem

as far as I know. :shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

47. So no power over them at all. Didn't think so.

thanks!

[Buzz Clik]

12. I guess we're projecting ahead to 2012. Nothing wrong with that.

[frazzled]

15. Remember, too, not all superdelegates are representatives of the whole state

Members of the US House, of course, could choose to represent their own districts' votes (or their own judgment, as the rules state); in many states, some districts differ greatly from others in political view and makeup. Other delegates might represent the entire nation--such as current and former DNC chairs.

In the end, however, each superdelegate is free to vote their own conscience, taking into consideration of course such things as their district or state, the party's needs and objectives, etc.

[Catch22Dem]

19. And some aren't representatives of anything

Think about Tom Daschle for example, and the many like him, who aren't elected officials.

[democrattotheend]

16. Obama would probably gain more than he loses that way, but no

I did an analysis a while ago that showed that Clinton would lose 70 superdelegates to Obama and Obama would lose 40 to Clinton if everyone voted the way their state did. That was before Ohio and Texas, so it would probably be less lopsided now. But I don't think it makes sense for superdelegates to vote the way their states did, unless maybe a candidate got 100% in their state. The SD's were designed to be independent of their states, otherwise they would just be pledged to the winner of their states in the rules.

I do think, however, that if a majority of pledged delegates go one way and the superdelegates as a whole give the nomination to the other candidate, that could be problematic, particularly when we are talking about the first woman and the first African American with a chance to win the nomination. My hope, although I am less optimistic at this point, is that Obama will build up a big enough delegate lead that he can agree to seat Michigan and Florida, or at least half of Florida's delegates and figure out something with regard to Michigan. Otherwise the debate over what the will of the people is becomes murkier, and the losing candidate's supporters will feel like it's stolen either way.

[bpeale]

18. i guess "the will of the people" doesn't matter very much if your

endorsers have to vote for your opponent per the rules huh? obamanites have been screaming over the will of the people being usurped all these months. they are so full of shit.

[Catch22Dem]

20. What if a SD doesn't have a "state"?

I gave Tom Daschle as an example in another post. He isn't an elected official any more.

[MethuenProgressive]

21. Where does he live?

France?

[Catch22Dem]

Well thought out response

What I'm saying is, he was elected in S.Dakota. What if he has houses in NY and CA now? Should he vote the way SD, CA, or NY voted? It's ignorant either way. He's not a representative of any state or district...including France, smart ass.

[MethuenProgressive]

28. Simple questions should receive simple answers.

And leave my ass out of this.
:hi:

[Catch22Dem]

42. So the bigger question is...

Who or what do they represent? A state? A district? Any voting block whatsoever? It really is a good question. My apologies to your ass. :D

[BalancedGoat]

23. I voted no.

They should do what they feel is best for the party. It's my personal opinion that going against the will of the people would in general be a bad thing for the party and any SD who didn't take this into consideration would be negligent. However, I would support delegates going against the will of the people if there was a strong enough reason to. Personal preference isn't a good enough reason in my opinion, and as things stand currently I don't see a reason that I would agree warrants going against the results.

[WillyT]

24. And You Would Force That, How Exactly ???

:shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

29. You'd have to ask the Obama Camp. It's their plan.

Me, I'll always support the DNC over the Obamacrats.

[johnnydrama]

25. two can play that game

Should Senators Innouye, Cantwell, Mikulski, and Murray vote for Obama?

[MethuenProgressive]

31. I support the DNC rules, johnny.

And voted that way in the poll.
Nice try, though.

[Bad Thoughts]

26. Represent the interests of their constituencies

There should be no hard and fast rule that sds should vote with their district, state or nation. Obviously, most sds aren't elected officials, so the question would be meaningless. Rather, they should take how the vote went along with other factors. Richardson, for instance, could vote with New Mexico. But he ought to take into account, from his position as governor, the vote, what is best for New Mexico, as well as what is best as a western governor and leading Hispanic politician. If a district's or state's vote is particularly lopsided (+20%), that should be taken into consideration as well.

[MethuenProgressive]

33. According to DNC rules, it seems the SD's constituency is...

..the Democratic Party.

[Exultant Democracy]

30. Other

[Alexander]

34. Should Maria Cantwell, Patty Murray, Dick Gephardt and Dan Inouye be forced to vote for Obama?

Along with Barbara Mikulski, John Baldacci, Ruth Ann Minner and Martin O'Malley?

You really don't want to go down this route. Clinton will lose even more delegates if this happens.

[MethuenProgressive]

36. That's what the Obama Camp wants. I support the DNC v the Obamacrats on this one.

SDs should vote per existing DNC rules, not per squeals of 'ain't fair!' from Obama's Camp.

[Alexander]

38. It doesn't matter. Either way, Hillary loses. Time to get over it.

I don't care what the superdelegates do. If they want to represent their state by voting for whomever their state voted for, fine. If they want to buck their state's trend, fine.

This poll is meaningless because no matter what they do, Obama's still way ahead.

[WinkyDink]

35. If yes, then the point of them would be...?

[Orsino]

45. That would make them delegates.

What would be their purpose? The party leadership wants bigwigs, and the bigwigs want this special voice.

[MethuenProgressive]

46. Obama ahead in total votes by slim ammount:

PolitiFact finds Obama to be ahead (as of March 7, 2008) by 13,002,527 to 12,413,052 if Michigan and Florida are not counted. He's also ahead by 13,578,741 to 13,284,038 if Florida is included but Michigan is not.

The only scenario in which Clinton is ahead is if Michigan is also included. She has 13,612,347 to Obama's 13,578,741.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/391/

More have voted for Clinton than for Obama?
DU doesn't seem to know this.

[johnnydrama]

49. nice find

Did you go out of your way to find a pre Mississippi vote count?

You can add 100k to that, and 115k from the 4 caucus states that haven't given out totals.

Total lead, 815,000 votes.

[MethuenProgressive]

50. The #s are from PolitiFact.com, they give credit to RealClearPolitics.

Link was in the post you're replying to, my friend.