I am haunted by the photos of Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr. laughing and doing projects together

[Sarah Ibarruri]

I just cannot separate Hillary Clinton from her husband's great friend, George Bush Sr.

Why did Bill do that? To date, no one has given me an answer. :shrug:

[BeatleBoot]

1. Probably because when people give you an answer

they are put on ignore.

[Alexander]

28. When you're through dodging, what would that answer be?

[BeatleBoot]

43. My answer would be

That Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford spoke often and shared ideas as did Nixon and Carter and Clinton. Why wouldn't past presidents have open dialogue?

It makes no sense not to.

Outside of DU, are Statesman that communicate with one another. Republicans, Independents, Democrats and Libertarians can and do get along outside of this Great Echo Chamber of Anonymous Pontificating.

Outside is reality. Where, when you speak, it seems as though nothing reverberates, because you are not surrounded by people that think just like you do and echo your every pontification with a hearty, "let it sink" and a stroke of the enter key.

And, of course, the new phenomenon with the rise of Obama supporters, is the "Ignore" function. Running and hiding when they hear the slightest criticism reminds me of the Ostrich when they sense fear.

Plus, those two - Bill and George HW raised a ton of money - together - for Hurricane Katrina relief.

[polpilot]

82. Bill is HONORED to be with Poppy. Hillbilly roots run deep.

[BeatleBoot]

83. No. Bill was President. Speaking to another President.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

But thanks for an insight into your thought process.

It reveals a lot.

[Hieronymus]

91. And that's an answer? Hillary has lost.

[bluestateguy]

2. Maybe it's an ex-presidents fraternity thing

But I'll bet you money he and Baby Bush are going to become buddy-buddy once the latter leaves the White House. Write it down.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. That scares me a lot nt

[Ken Burch]

36. The only thing that would redeem that would be if he took the Dubster on a pubcrawl

and then posted the results on YouTube.

[theredpen]

4. I thought it was cool that they teamed up to raise funds for tsunami victims.

Was there something else that I missed?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Why wouldn't he team up with other awesome Democrats, rather than humiliate us all

by hanging out with an asshole Repuke who did so much damage, and whose son has destroyed our country, shamed us before the world, and killed so many of us?

[Drachasor]

12. So the sins of the son should be blamed on the father?

I feel sorry for George "No W" Bush

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. So you think Repuke Bush Sr. was a worthwhile president? You're scaring me nt

[Drachasor]

17. I think he made mistakes, but overall was competent at the job

I certainly don't agree with all of his agenda, but he was better for the country than Reagan for instance.

I am more saying he wasn't a bad President than he was a good one.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. You just told me everything I need to know about your views on Republicans nt

[Drachasor]

22. That they're human beings that I disagree with but can still do some things competently?

What am I supposed to do, demonize them? What did I say that you take issue with? I am genuinely curious.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. Republicans???? Right wingers??? They're human beings but quite evil ones....

In fact, we're discussing this on another thread, and a book was recommended: The Authoritarians. I plan to read it. It might shed some light into why these people are such evil @-holes.

[Drachasor]

31. I have some republican friends, so I'll respectfully disagree with your assertion that they are evil

On Bush Sr., in particular, is there something that makes you think my position is ridiculous?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. Yeah well, enjoy yourself.

I have none because to me, the conservative point of view is basically evil. If you like it, that's your problem. I have certain limits. In my house enter no KKKers, no Nazis, no sociopaths, and no Repukes except for the one I unfortunately ended up having as part of my family. That was simply an unfortunate happening and not a choice.

[Drachasor]

39. I didn't say I like the conservative point of view, in fact I have had long arguments with them

That said, they aren't evil. Short-sighted politically, I think, but calling them "evil" is a bit much. I happen to base my friendships on things beyond politics.

Again though, is there some line of reasoning beyond that which you have to say Bush senior wasn't competent? (And with all due respect, "competence" is a fairly low bar).

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. Ok fine. You don't think they're evil. Their ideology is evil.

It's like saying that individuals subscribing to the Nazi party were not necessarily evil, but the Nazi ideology is. Okay, but as long as you're part of it, and carrying out instructions that abide by the ideology, then what are you and what are you doing?

[Drachasor]

48. I think it is more shortsighted than evil. It ignores some of the realities of living in a society

And it is a bit lacking in compassion for unseen strangers as well. That said, do you think republicans cannot be good friends? Do you think you should abandon a good friend just because they have some short-sighted views? I think it is better to not be so divisive and talk to them now and then instead.

And let's be clear here, the Republicans are not Nazis. They aren't even close. More explicitly, the average Republican citizen is not being given orders to kill other people or commit other grievous acts. Most of them are decent folk who have some wrong perspectives but mean no harm to others (in fact, often quite the opposite).

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. Republicans are individuals who hold to a basically evil ideology which we have been brainwashed

into accepting as not evil. However brainwashed we may be, it is an evil ideology.

[AllentownJake]

66. As a former republican I object

I was once a proud member of the GOP but slowly and surely the party left me. Until after the first 2 years of Bush I said No more.

There isn't room there anymore for Pro-Choice, Pro-Gay rights, Pro-balancing the budget, Anti-uneccesary war types.

Remember Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln were republicans.

However I would hardly call all Republicans evil. I think they have it wrong on almost everything but Evil is a little harsh.

I think we diminish the word Evil when we throw it out there.

Hitler was Evil, Stalin was Evil, The GOP is just wrong and a pain in the ass.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. Okay, I'll try to modify it. :-)

Thank you.

[Drachasor]

93. Well done, sir, I had given up on talking to her

I guess I quit too soon there.

[theredpen]

44. I don't begrudge anyone lending their celebrity to a worthy cause

For example: Bill Gates is a criminal. Plain and simple, Microsoft owes at least some of its success to flat-out criminal behavior. But the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation has been doing very important philanthropic work.

If Gates had been responsible for deaths or war, that would be different.

Bush Sr. has blood on his hands, but so does Bill Clinton.

[goclark]

81. Why did BC misjudge GHWB when BC wanted them

to take a world tour after HC was elected?

How did someone as experienced as BC not understand that Blood is thicker than water?

[theredpen]

86. I don't know what you're talking about here.

[goclark]

87. Bill Clinton spoke publicly soon after HC declared

her run for the nomination.

He was glowing with the idea that when HC was elected, he and GHWB
would make a good will tour in spots around the world.

Within hours GHWB made it known that he would not be hoing on a tour with Bill Clinton because his son was doing a good job.

[theredpen]

89. Thanks for the reminder...

Yeah, that was another one of Bill Clinton's recent spate of low points.

But I still admire him and Bush Sr. for stepping up to advocate relief efforts for the Indonesians.

[paulk]

5. because the projects they worked on together were worthy

causes, and Bill put the country ahead of any personal feelings he may have had for Bush pere's political leanings.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. Because they raised hundreds of millions

for worthy causes.

But that doesn't matter to people consumed with Clinton-hate.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. And that Repuke was the only person he could find in the whole U.S.

to raise millions?

[MonkeyFunk]

41. They're two of three living ex-presidents

it's a small group to choose from.

I think you have to really go out of your way to find fault with this.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

46. And? Who cares? Because someone was president, you're going to pick him, regardless of his

misdeeds and evil doings?

[Bake]

49. It's called being a STATESMAN.

We have too damn few statesmen and far too many politicians.

They did a lot of good together, for very damn worthy causes. You damn Clinton for that, but then when he becomes a partisan for Sen. Clinton's campaign, you damn that too.

Oh, and there's just a possibility, however remote, that they might actually LIKE each other.

Bake

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. No it's not. Anyone who breaks bread with someone evil, does so on the backs of the victims

of the evildoer.

[Bake]

60. Fortunately, most Americans disagree with you.

Are we not all Americans? Occasionally, just occasionally, we can act like we're all Americans and unite to do good. I personally never cared for Poppy Bush (although he was a country mile better than his idiot offspring!), but I'm happy that as a former POTUS, he and Bill could unite to do some good for the tsunami and Katrina victims. Some things, some needs, transcend partisan politics.

I will obviously never convince you of this, nor will you convince me, so we'll simply agree to disagree.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. Really! Which Americans disagree with the fact that breaking bread with the evil

is done on the backs of the victims of the evildoer?

[Bake]

64. Put up a poll here on DU.

Ask whether the Bill/Poppy team-up for charitable causes was a good thing.

And we'll see what the results are. Go ahead. I double-dog dare you.

:rofl:

Bake

[Sarah Ibarruri]

67. I'm not sure how to put up a poll, but I'll give it a shot. In the interim, I'm curious....

Whom do you support politically for Dem nominee?

[Bake]

71. Why does that matter?

Put up the poll. I'll be very interested to see the results.

Bake

[Sarah Ibarruri]

72. Is it a crime to ask? Are you ashamed to say whom you back?

[Bake]

73. Hell no I'm not ashamed.

I support Sen. Clinton for President.

But that has no relevance to this discussion.

Bake

[Sarah Ibarruri]

75. Okay that wasn't so hard now was it? nt

[Bake]

76. No it wasn't! LOL!

Frankly, I hesitated because I know you are an Obama suporter from other posts, and I didn't want you to dismiss my comments simply on the basis of my presidential preference. Sorry I misjudged you. My apologies!!

Now, post the poll! I would do it, but I was not able to contribute to DU this cycle and hence can't post a poll.

:hi:

Bake

[Sarah Ibarruri]

78. :-) I don't dislike Hillary. FYI, if she were to win, I'd vote for her because all

Dems are better than any Repug.

[MonkeyFunk]

92. grow up

[MethuenProgressive]

7. Sarah, what project scares you so much? feeding the hungry? housing the homeless?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. The fact that he hand-picked a total Repuke asshole, after we supported Clinton against

the Repukes.

[MethuenProgressive]

16. So you don't support feeding the hungry or housing the homeless?

Which do you fear more? Hungry children or homeless children?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. Always, but why pick a complete Repuke anti-poor asshole to do that?

Particularly after the Repukes had just crucified him? You're just going to have to come up with a better reason. There are countless wonderful, wonderful Democrats to go on money-finding missions. There's no need to go reaching to the bottom of the barrel for a Repuke, now is there?

[MethuenProgressive]

20. The "anti-poor asshole" helped raise 100s of millions. What did you?

Sit at home, and post on DU what an asshole he was to help Bill Clinton raise money world-wide to help feed and house victims of catastrophe?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. As would a decent human being, which George Bush Sr. was not.

Bill shamed us all by doing that bullshit. And a Democrat might have gotten more funds than this complete Repugnican asshole.

[ctaylors6]

29. Unfortunately, repubulicans have lots of $ too & might not give as much

if only high-profile Democrats are the ones in charge of a major fundraising effort.

[Straight Shooter]

9. You're "haunted"?

Are you haunted by this:

Former U.S. Presidents Bill Clinton and George Bush, Sr., have completed their three-day, four-country tour of the tsunami region. They visited Thailand, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, and the Maldives.

Current President George W. Bush asked the former presidents to lead the U.S. effort to raise private funds for tsunami relief. As for the funds that have been used thus far, both men indicated that tsunami aid is being used effectively.

When Clinton was asked if he believed that tsunami aid is being used properly, he replied, “By and large I do.” He also said that non-governmental organizations were doing a good job. However, Clinton emphasized that several more years of relief and rebuilding efforts is necessary.

"We have to be prepared to stay at this for three to five years," he said.

http://www.tsunamis.com/clinton-bush-finish-tsunami-tour.html

Former U.S. president Bill Clinton has cancelled his trip to tsunami-hit areas of Maldives because he is exhausted, a UN official said Saturday.

Cherie Hart, the regional communications officer for the UN Development Program and the co-ordinator of Clinton's visit, said the former president, who underwent a heart bypass operation in September, was not sick. In March, surgeons successfully removed fluid and scar tissue from his chest cavity.

"He's plain pooped and he wants to slow the schedule down,'' Hart said.

Clinton, who was recently named special UN envoy for tsunami recovery, likely wouldn't be able to meet tsunami survivors in the tropical archipelago off India's southern tip, but he still plans to hold talks with business leaders and government officials Sunday at the resort.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1117320073291_28

Damn that Bill Clinton, acting like such a do-gooder.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. And a complete, evil asshole Repuke was the *only* person available in the U.S.

with whom he could've raised that money? Oh I so totally doubt it, it's not even funny. I need to know the reason he did that. There has to be a reason. Bush Sr. is, if anything, the least indicated person a former (and much maligned by the right wing) president should have ever ever picked to go on a do-gooding mission. I want to know the truth about that.

[Straight Shooter]

23. You need to take your issue up with the people who were in charge of this arrangement.

Whether you realize it or not, ghw bush has enormous clout worldwide. Enormous. Do not underestimate his power structure. You don't know how many strings he might have pulled to create goodwill for the bush family by inserting himself into the process.

edit, cuz I type too fast

[Sarah Ibarruri]

30. Hitler had lots of clout as well. And? nt

[Straight Shooter]

80. Godwin's law. n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

95. Isn't that the Mike Goodwin rule that says, "No fair using the Nazis as an example if it

will cause you to win your argument against me?" (Evidently, Mike Goodwin was a very defensive debater) :-)

[cboy4]

34. That was some outrageous behavior, Shame on him for

helping the tsunami victims. :eyes:

[formercia]

13. Can't you see little Billy on the beach building a castle in the sand

when a wave washes it out to sea.

In tears he looks up at Poppy and says "why?"

"Ahh" Poppy says. "The people hire us to build castles in the sand, that soon get swept away."

"But why couldn't we build a castle that lasts forever?" replies Billy.

"But then, they wouldn't need us any more" answered Poppy.

[Straight Shooter]

26. Everyone builds castles in the sand.

In the end, all is washed away. ;)

[WinkyDink]

25. Didn't Obama say he would work with Republicans?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

35. Clinton was impeached by Repukes....

Then he proceeded to make a Repuke his BEST FRIEND. Obama said he'd "work with" Repukes, but not make them his best pal, laugh out loud high fiving and further embarrassing shit.

[WinkyDink]

77. Yet.

[varelse]

27. Here's my theory

Bill managed to persuade the scion of a Skull&Bones family to spend $$ to help people that the Bush family & cohorts would normally ignore or trample on, and not only that but he got "Senior" to help pry even more $$ out of the hands of the folks that "Junior" refers to as "the have-mores aka my base" - and to do this, my guess is that Bill had to act in a friendly manner toward the man.

Bottom line is - at the cost of some photo ops and a bit of good will, the "have mores" were persuaded to part with some of their holdings for a good cause, and that in my book is not a bad thing :)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

37. So you believe that Bill Clinton began to kiss right wing ass in exchange for

basically being allowed to live? If you're right, that's depressing. :-(

[varelse]

58. Nah

I think that many millionaires and high-level politicians run in the same crowd, and that some of them can occasionally put political differences and power struggles aside in order to raise funds for the common good. Call me naive, but I do believe this sometimes happens, even today. But the way you frame this made me think... could the right wing be essentially saying much the same thing about George Senior hob-nobbing with Liberal Arch-enemy Bill Clinton? I mean, after all I doubt any of the Bush families' political allies could be too happy with that relationship. They've hated the Clintons for decades, no?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. Could be, but it's the right wing that has essentially controlled every aspect of this country

from Reagan to the present, and they've virtually turned this country into a 3rd world fascist nation. What do they care if a president THEY impeached is suddenly kissing the ass of their party? In fact, it might be a compliment. Sort of a, "Well well well, we kicked this one's ass and now he's kissing our butt."

[rodeodance]

32. They are two statesmen working together for the betterment of people.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

38. So you don't mind an evil asshole working with someone from your party

I do.

[rodeodance]

40. I am not into IMMATURE name-calling.

Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Mar-23-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. So you don't mind an evil asshole working with someone from your party

I do.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. You're against me calling Bush an asshole? Okay, whatever. nt

[rodeodance]

53. It is unnecessary in a civil discussion

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. And you think that my calling George Bush Sr. an asshole is worse than his evil deeds?

Interesting.

[bowens43]

51. I don't mind it at all if it's for a good cause. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

63. Well, you just explained your entire philosophy of life. Those who hurt victims should be

treated very well if the opportunity arises for it. Nice!

[blm]

47. Jackson Stephens - BCCI - WalMart. Bushes and Clintons had been closer than people knew for decade

Clintons were groomed and careers bankrolled by Jackson Stephens to protect BushInc's left flank.

[bowens43]

50. why is tht a bad thing?

why shouldn't they work together if they can do some good?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

57. Because breaking bread with someone evil, is done on the backs of the victims of the evildoer

That's why.

[AllentownJake]

68. Don't diminish the word

Evil is a very strong word. Lets not diminish it.

[Crooked Moon]

52. are you equally haunted by this?

KING: A couple of quick things, Senator. Would you, in your administration, make use of Bill Clinton?

OBAMA: Absolutely. I think that, you know, Bill Clinton is a brilliant statesman and politician, and I think that any president would want to use his skills and his relationships around the world.

By the way, I would reach out to the first George Bush. You know, one of the things that I think George H.W. Bush doesn't get enough credit for was his foreign policy team and the way that he helped negotiate the end of the Cold War and prosecuted the Gulf War. That cost us 20 billion dollars. That's all it cost. It was extremely successful. I think there were a lot of very wise people. So I want a bipartisan team that can help to provide me good advice and counsel when I'm president of the United States.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

59. So you're telling me that I'm to ignore what has already happened

in exchange for what you are imagining might? Well, I'm here to tell you that Obama will probably work with both parties but would not kiss the asses of evildoers. We don't know yet tho, do we?

However we DO know that Bill Clinton has already done it. We have it on video, we have it in photo, we have proof of it having happened everywhere.

[Crooked Moon]

70. heh

if you consider obama's actual words on international television me "imagining" something, you've got some thinkin' to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Most Americans Don't Have A Problem With Having Friends With Different Political Orientations

After spending five years on this board I can certainly say I have met Republicans that are nicer than some Democrats...

My Repunlican friends have enough respect for me and my feelings that they don't trash Hillary Clinton in my presence...I have met many Democrats who don't give a fuck about me or my feelings as is their right...

Papa and Mama Bush speaks more kindly about Bill Clinton than ninety percent of the posters on DU... Even Dubya had to say " I don't think Bill Clinton is a racist."

[KingFlorez]

74. It didn't have anything to do with politics

They worked on tsunami relief, which is a good cause. Not everything has to be drawn along political lines.

[RichGirl]

79. Here's why....

If Bill Clinton thought it would help a cause, like Katrina victims, or Africans, to work with George Sr. he would do it. Because unlike some he wouldn't let his own opinions and feelings about someone stand in the way of helping people in need.

If Obama is the man he claims to be...he would do exactly the same things.

[LTR]

84. I agree with Clinton on this

And I'm an Obama supporter.

We need to get past this divisive "Bloods n' Crips" mindset. Clinton teamed with a heated former adversary for a good cause (Hurricane Relief), and that showed class.

I miss the days when Democrats and Republicans could coexist and disagree with each other politely. These petty wars are toxic in our society.

[better tomorrow]

85. remember after the Tsunami? That was the day I turned against Hillary

Nice project, but they looked too happy to me...like they had more in common than we knew....and, they do!

[StevieM]

88. I know, it's so shameful to work with someone of the other party to help the poor and the homeless

who have been devastated by acts of nature. President Clinton really shouldn't even be allowed to register as a Democrat after having done that.

Steve

[kerry-is-my-prez]

90. Why did Obama say he might have him in his Administration? That's worse.

At least the Clintons haven't said that....

[jillan]

94. But it doesn't haunt you that Obama was on national tv praising Bush Sr???