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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:46 AM
Original message
"Obama Campaign Character Attacks Not Supported by Facts"
DISCLOSURE:

“On a week when 11,000 pages of Hillary's White House schedule were made available to the public, the Obama campaign is continuing to attack Hillary's transparency. At the same time, the OBAMA CAMPAIGN HAS NOT RELEASED A SINGLE PAGE of his state senate schedule or records.”
“There are 20 years of Hillary's tax returns in the public record and she will release all of her post-White House returns next month. Sen. Obama has released ONLY ONE YEAR OF HIS TAX RETURNS TO THE PUBLIC and refuses to release any other years.”

FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE ACT:

OBAMA’S ATTACK:
“Clinton credits herself with “helping to pass” the Family and Medical Leave Act as First Lady. But the 11,000 pages of schedules don’t contain a single mention of her involvement in the issue.”

EXPLANATION:
Debra Ness, President of the National Partnership for Women and Families, said about Hillary's involvement in FMLA:
“Hillary was instrumental in getting the Family and Medical Leave Act signed into law. We at the National Partnership for Women & Families as well as other family and labor groups had been pushing for the law for nearly 10 years. Hillary brought her work and experience on behalf of children and working families to the campaign trail in 1991 and 1992 and knew the importance of getting this legislation passed immediately. Two weeks after President Clinton was inaugurated, it was done.”

35 YEARS OF PUBLIC SERVICE

OBAMA’S ATTACK:
“The oft-repeated Clinton claim that she has 35 years of public service experience is simply false. Fifteen of those years were spent at a law practice”

EXPLANATION:
During that time, Hillary was First Lady of Arkansas, Founded Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, was appointed by President Carter to the board of the U.S. Legal Services Corporation, Chaired Rural Health Advisory Committee in Arkansas and was on the board of directors of the Children's Defense Fund, among other activities in the public service.
Sen. Obama also worked in private practice for about a decade, and doesn't exclude that period of time from his experience in public service.

NAFTA:

OBAMA’S ATTACK:
The Obama campaign falsely claims that Hillary was not critical of NAFTA in the early 1990s:
“Clinton tells Ohio voters that she has “been a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning.” Yet her own schedules show that as First Lady she attended at least four meetings to advocate for its original passage.”

EXPLANATION:
Here is what David Gergen, who organized at least one of the meetings, had to say about Hillary's views at the time:
“I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight and I must tell you Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. And I think that’s putting it mildly. I’m not sure she objected to all the provisions of it but she just didn’t see why her husband and that White House had to go and do that fight. She was very unhappy about it and wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there’s some justification for her camp saying, you know, she’s never been a great backer for NAFTA.
Hear more explanations to Obama’s attacks at
http://facts.hillaryhub.com/
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's just politics
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Re: HRC and NAFTA,
this is important:

David Gergen, who organized at least one of the meetings, had to say about Hillary's views at the time:
“I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight and I must tell you Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. And I think that’s putting it mildly. I’m not sure she objected to all the provisions of it but she just didn’t see why her husband and that White House had to go and do that fight. She was very unhappy about it and wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there’s some justification for her camp saying, you know, she’s never been a great backer for NAFTA.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The problem is the whole country watched her go on teevee
with Bill and promote NAFTA on talk shows. Maybe that was some other Hillary.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. People should be able to understand
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 05:45 AM by elleng
how decisions really are made.

Like in our own families: 'Mom, you said you'd take care of the dog,' when mom said to dad earlier that having a dog would be burdensome.

HRC did what she could, on the inside, and once bill made the decision she supported him. That's not so hard to understand, is it?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. It's not difficult to understand, It's difficult to believe.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. THAT is difficult for ME
to BELIEVE. We're all humans, aren't we? Who have all sorts of social relationships, right? Which make various demands on us, at different times, right?

We've inherited this great system which expects us to be educated and informed, and to use all our efforts so we can succeed. Lets do that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. My being educated and informed has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 07:25 AM by sfexpat2000
misrepresenting her shilling for NAFTA.

I am not required to invent a back story for her or to buy into one. It's her job to explain the discrepancy, not mine.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. John Nichols on Hillary's NAFTA problem
Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. Now that we know all of this, how should we assess the claim that Hillary's heart has always beaten to a fair-trade rhythm?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5221553&mesg_id=5221553
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. David Gergen,
who organized at least one of the meetings, had to say about Hillary's views at the time:
“I was actually there in the Clinton White House during the NAFTA fight and I must tell you Hillary Clinton was extremely unenthusiastic about NAFTA. And I think that’s putting it mildly. I’m not sure she objected to all the provisions of it but she just didn’t see why her husband and that White House had to go and do that fight. She was very unhappy about it and wanted to move on to health care. So I do think there’s some justification for her camp saying, you know, she’s never been a great backer for NAFTA.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes, I read that. Maybe he should read the papers she relased, too,
since he's forgotten about the talk show tours.
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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Papers don't always tell the whole story
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Of course they don't. But a written record is pretty hard to dispute. n/t
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. So in other words...she was phony and dishonest about how she in fact...
...viewed NAFTA. Big surprise....NOT!
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Wait...she is running on her EXPERIENCE as First Lady...
...not her social relationship with Bill, right?

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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. I think David Gergen is trustworthy. Why would he lie? He's not exactly a Clinton supporter
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 04:09 PM by pathansen
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Its hard for OBamaniacs to understand
because either they simply don't understand politics or they pretend not to so that they don't have to surrender their talking point. They never cease to amaze me. They are either the most naive cretins or extremely manipulative and utterly disingenuous. I really find them unbearable, as much as admire a lot about their candidate.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. So, did you read Nichols' article?
:)
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. If she can't get her husband to listen to her, how can we expect
her to get people she's not married to - to do anything?
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Yeah, that's the ticket....
...it's the Hillbot they kept in storage in the WH.
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wait for....
a few responses. I'm sure you'll get straightened out in short order. First though, an explanation of what a "fact" is would help. Thanks.
quickesst
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
DON"T LET IT SINK!!!DON"T LET IT SINK!!!DON"T LET IT SINK!!!DON"T LET IT SINK!!!DON"T LET IT SINK!!!

Stop Obama NOW! Wanna play ...Obamessiah's..?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. What's not supported by facts so far is
that there is nothing to hide in the tax returns the Clintons have refused to show or the donor list to the presidential library they are refusing to show.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Sooooooooo.....how do we know there is nothing to hide....
...since we have not seen the document itself? LOL....:rofl:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Correct.
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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. If you read the article, Clinton has released a lot more information than Obama has
So how can he stand in judgment?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Nobody is requesting or suggesting anything
about her records as first lady. People want the tax returns from missing years as well as the library donation list.
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powergirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. Citing information to hillary hub does not convince me of anything
I've noticed that the most effective way that Obama counters attacks by the Clinton campaign is to refer to independent news sources or actually third parties to back up his position. Clinton should do the same.
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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. The quotes listed were from independent sources
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hillary Hub....now there's a reliable source....
...NOT! :eyes:

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olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
19. Posting a campaign memo equals IGNORE
But go on trying to bail water out of the ship.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. Obama didn't release his Kindergarten papers either, but
Hillary managed to get them anyway.

Obama's record in the senate is no secret
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. And it doesn't take much time to read.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. Yeah yeah, and Hillary wears army boots
her breath stinks, and she doesn't use deodorant. :rofl:

Anything else you'd like to inform us about?? Relevant to the campaign? not just another attack thread on Obama? How about Hill and bill stuffing NAFTA down the throat of America and causing so many problems for the middle class and Joe Sixpack?/ Didn't think of that did you?/ What about all of the lost manufacturing jobs that Billy Bluecollar gave up because the freewheeling Clinton's NAFTAed away our manufacturing base first to Mexico, and now to China and Southeast Asia.

Guess none of that is important, just that Obama needs to release his fucking PAPERS.

What bullshit.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
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