Bill Clinton says no revote in FL and MI is deliberate attempt to disenfranchise voters.

[madfloridian]

I guess that I was right all along. I guess it is all coming out now just much FL and MI have been used as tools of the Clinton campaign. The DNC gave permission for the revote, now the states don't want it. And earlier Hillary refused it. This is just so amazing.

The move is on full force now.

Bill Clinton Says No Re-Vote in MI and FL is a Deliberate Attempt to Disenfranchise Voters

So, Bill, since the DNC asked them to revote and they are refusing...who are you blaming?

ABC News' Sarah Amos Reports: Former President Bill Clinton celebrated the Polish holiday Dingus Day in South Bend, IN this morning, rallying Hooisers around his wife Hillary's campaign. Clinton had strong words when talking about the decision not to hold new primaries in Michigan and Florida, saying the decision is "a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise" voters.

"I must say that this new strategy of denying and disempowering and disenfranchising the voters in Florida and Michigan is, I believe, a terrible mistake. Hillary believes their votes should be counted. And I don't know how we're gonna go to those people in the general election and say you gotta vote for us even though we dumped all over you in the primary," Clinton told a crowd at the Westside Democratic Club in South Bend.

Clinton later warned a crowd at a nearby Elk's Club of the same problem by keeping Florida and Michigan out of the primary process, adding that Senator McCain is a strong candidate in both Michigan and Florida, but Hillary is stronger. A re-vote in Florida and Michigan would greatly benefit Senator Clinton's attempt to gain delegates and overtake Sen. Obama, D-Ill., in the popular vote. Senator Clinton won both of the original primary votes, however, she was the only major candidate to appear on the Michigan ballot and none of the candidates campaigned in either state.

The former President also spoke confidently about Hillary's chances in a general election, "I believe she will win Ohio, Florida, West Virginia and Arkansas, four states we have lost the last two times. If we win Ohio and Florida it is inconcieveable that we can lose the election," Clinton told a group at a local Elks Club. "Look if we win these four states we will win the White House, there is no point in doing this if we are not going to win," reiterated to the crowd.

He must be referring to the state leaders, as the DNC gave full permission.

Bill also is starting to be used no holds barred on Obama, according to TPM

Bill emerges

That the Clinton camp would pursue a strategy that could renew attention on Bill seems striking, at least given what Hillary's own advisers were saying after the series of mistakes by Bill in the run-up to South Carolina. Some of them privately acknowledged that the focus on Bill had made it tougher for Hillary to portray her candidacy as historic and easier for Obama to cast the race as a choice between the "past and the future." (Polls were inconclusive on Bill's impact.) Bill himself toned down his role.

Given that background, the fact that the Hillary campaign is actively encouraging debate about these new episodes involving Bill suggests that Hillary advisers see tarnishing Obama's high-mindedness as so imperative that they'll grab any opportunity to do so and risk whatever potential downside they may see in refocusing the race on the former President.

It's a noteworthy development. We'll see where it goes.

A former president being used in this way is surprising.

I was right. FL and MI are being used as tools for the Clinton campaign.

And the lawsuit that was just dismissed at appeals court is being started over with the blessing of that court. Looks like a new precedent will be set....that the national party can not set the rules anymore.

Just what we needed. A former president as an attack dog, and courts getting in to the fray.

[book_worm]

1. they disinfranchised themselves. If the Clinton's were so concerned

why did they originally agree to DNC rules.

[ingac70]

2. They thought the nom. would be a lock for her....

had they known it would be like this, she woulda never signed that pledge.

[madfloridian]

4. They have changed their minds over and over. Florida's propaganda won.

And I have said all along that FL and MI were tied together on this, and that Clinton campaign people in the states worked together.

I am beginning to think I was more right than I thought.

It is sad to see a former president become an attack dog.

[joshcryer]

10. Because the DNC rules seemed quite fair?

Lose half the delegates?

But oops, what happened, the DNC changed the rules in August, 3 months after the primary law was changed, and stripped FL of all their delegates, giving them a whole freaking thirty days to create their own election (and we see how that turned out with their own attempts at a revote recently, same time frames to do it). They rejected the DNC for this clearly unfair move.

[stillcool]

18. Changed the rules? Not.

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates

By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is breaking the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.

The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Lawmakers in US state Michigan approve moving presidential primary to January despite rules
The Associated Press
Published: August 30, 2007

LANSING, Michigan: Michigan lawmakers have approved moving the state's U.S. presidential nomination contests to January, three weeks earlier than party rules allow, as states continue to challenge the traditional primary election calendar to gain influence in the race.

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign the bill passed Thursday that would move the contest to Jan. 15, but approval of the switch is far from certain. A disagreement among state Democratic leaders over whether to hold a traditional ballot vote or a more restricted caucus is complicating final action.

If the date moves up, Michigan Democrats risk losing all their national convention delegates, while Republicans risk losing half.
------------------------------------
Rules in both parties say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for a few hand-picked states that hold elections in January.
--------------------------------
"We understand that we're violating the rules, but it wasn't by choice," Michigan Republican Chairman Saul Anuzis said, noting that state Democrats first proposed moving the date to Jan. 15. "We're going to ask for forgiveness and we think ... we will get forgiveness."
----------------------------------
Even states that do not have favored status are trying to jump toward the front of the line. Florida Democrats decided to move their state's primary to Jan. 29. The national party has said it will strip Florida of its presidential convention delegates unless it decides within the next few weeks to move the vote to a later date.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/31/america/NA-POL-US-Primary-Scramble.php?WT.mc_id=rssap_america

Democrats vow to skip defiant states
Six candidates agree not to campaign in those that break with the party's calendar. Florida and Michigan, this includes you.
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 2, 2007
Front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina in pledging to abide by the calendar set by the Democratic National Committee last summer. The rules allow four states -- Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina -- to vote in January.

The four "need to be first because in these states ideas count, not just money," Edwards said in a written statement. "This tried-and-true nominating system is the only way for voters to judge the field based on the quality of the candidate, not the depth of their war chest."

Hours later, after Obama took the pledge, Clinton's campaign chief issued a statement citing the four states' "unique and special role in the nominating process" and said that the New York senator, too, would "adhere to the DNC-approved calendar."

Three candidates running farther back in the pack -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and Sens. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware -- said Friday they would honor the pledge, shortly after the challenge was issued in a letter co-signed by Democratic leaders in the four early states.
--
Florida, the state that proved pivotal in the 2000 presidential election, is again a source of much upheaval. Ignoring the rule that put January off-limits, legislators moved the state's primary up to Jan. 29, pushing Florida past California and other big states voting Feb. 5.

Leaders of the national party responded last month by giving Florida 30 days to reconsider, or have its delegates barred from the August convention in Denver.

"The party had to send a strong message to Florida and the other states," said Donna Brazile, a veteran campaign strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee, the party's governing body. "We have a system that is totally out of control."

Despite that warning, Michigan lawmakers moved last week to jump the queue, voting to advance the state's primary to Jan. 15.

Florida Dems defy Dean on primary date
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 06/12/07 07:58 PM
Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), is trapped in a high-stakes game of chicken with party leaders in Florida.

They warned him yesterday not to “disenfranchise” state voters and risk being blamed for a debacle on the scale of the 2000 recount.

The warning comes amid alarm over a decision Sunday by state Democratic leaders to embrace Jan. 29 as the primary date.
They are defying DNC headquarters and daring it to follow through on its threat to disqualify electors selected in the primary and punish candidates who campaign there.

But the DNC is not backing down. The committee bought time with a statement late yesterday saying, “The DNC will enforce the rules as passed by its 447 members in Aug. 2006. Until the Florida State Democratic Party formally submits its plan and we’ve had the opportunity to review that submission, we will not speculate further.”

Dean does not, in any case, have the power to waive party rules, a DNC spokeswoman said. The entire committee would have to vote again to do that.
------------------

Carol Fowler, chairwoman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said she won’t move that state’s primary, scheduled for Feb. 2, unless the national committee allows her.

“I’m going to do what the DNC tells me to,” Fowler said. “I’m not willing to violate the rules. The penalties are too stiff.”
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-dems-defy-dean-on-primary-date-2007-06-12.html

DNC Moves to Stop Primary Frontloading
Posted: August 27, 2007 6:05 PM ET
The Democratic National Committee moved over the weekend to penalize Florida for moving up its primary date to Jan. 29 -- a violation of DNC rules that prohibit states from holding nominating polls before Feb. 5.
The committee said the Sunshine State would be stripped of its delegation at the party's National Convention in 2008 if the state does not reschedule its primary in the next 30 days.

As the nation's fourth-most-populous state, Florida has 210 delegates and has played a major role in recent presidential elections. Florida's decision to advance its primary follows the increasing trend of states pushing up their contests in order to gain relevance in the election.

"Rules are rules. California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos," said Garry Shays, a DNC member from California. California -- with its 441 delegates -- moved its primary to Feb. 5, along with more than a dozen other states.
-----------------------------------------

The DNC gave Florida the option of holding a Jan. 29 contest but with nonbinding results, and the delegates would be awarded at a later official date.

Florida Democratic Committee Chairwoman Karen Thurman said this option would be expensive -- as much as $8 million -- and potentially undoable. Another option would be to challenge the ruling in court.

"We do represent, standing here, a lot of Democrats in the state of Florida -- over 4 million," Thurman said, according to the New York Times. "This is emotional for Florida. And it should be."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec07/florida_08-27.html

Published: Monday, September 24, 2007
Florida defies Dems, moves up primary
Associated Press

PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. — The Florida Democratic Party is sticking to its primary date — and it printed bumper stickers to prove it.

State party leaders formally announced Sunday their plans to move ahead with a Jan. 29 primary, despite the national leadership's threatened sanctions.

The Democratic National Committee has said it will strip the Sunshine State of its 210 nominating convention delegates if it doesn't abide by the party-set calendar, which forbids most states from holding primary contests before Feb. 5. The exceptions are Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20070924/NEWS02/709240045/-1/

Michigan defies parties, moves up primary date
JAN. 15 DECISION COULD SET OFF STAMPEDE OF STATES
By Stephen Ohlemacher
Associated Press
Article Launched: 09/05/2007 01:34:57 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - Michigan officially crashed the early primary party Tuesday, setting up showdowns with both political parties and likely pushing the presidential nomination calendar closer to 2007.
-------------------
The decision by the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in approved early states renders voting in the rogue states essentially non-binding beauty contests.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6804685?source=rss

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

Senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) has suggested seating the Michigan and Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention, even though the Democratic National Committee (DNC) stripped them of their status. The DNC originally set itself up for trouble by denying these influential states a place at the convention as punishment for scheduling their primaries too early in the year. However, the fact remains that, since each and every Democratic presidential candidate pledged not to campaign in these states and to abide by the DNC’s decision, these delegates should not be seated at the convention.

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.

Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar... Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

Voters Face Confusion in Michigan Dem Race
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/09/voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html
January 9, 2008
By Peter Slevin
CHICAGO --

"People are already frustrated here in Detroit because they can't cast a ballot for Obama. Many on their absentee ballots many have tried to write in Obama, but they have spoiled the ballots," said Sam Riddle, Monica Conyers's chief of staff. "We know we've got to educate the voters in a hurry."

Kucinich Files Affidavit To Remove Name From Michigan's Primary Shortly Before Deadline

October 10, 2007 8:19 a.m. EST
Ayinde O. Chase - AHN Staff
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008781843
Dover, NH (AHN) - The Kucinich for President campaign Tuesday afternoon officially requested that Kucinich's name be withdrawn from the Michigan Democratic primary ballot. The affidavit came by way of to the Michigan Secretary of State's office.

The Ohio Congressman and Democratic Presidential candidates National Campaign manager Mike Klein said in the statement, "We signed a public pledge recently, promising to stand with New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, and the DNC-approved 'early window', and the action we are taking today protects New Hampshire's first-in-the-nation primary status, and Nevada's early caucus."

The statement continued: "We support the grassroots nature of the New Hampshire, small-state primary, and we support the diversity efforts that Chairman Dean and the DNC instituted last year, when they added Nevada and South Carolina to the window in January 2008. We are obviously committed to New Hampshire's historic role." Klein who actually recently moved to Dover said, "We will continue to adhere to the DNC-approved primary schedule."

Governor Granholm and other Michigan Democratic leaders have openly criticized the decision by several presidential candidates to keep their names off the state primary ballot.

The Michigan lawmakers are taken back by Barack Obama, Joe Biden, John Edwards and Bill Richardson's decision to withdraw their names from the January 15th ballot.

The only ones who remain on Michigan's primary ballot are Hillary Clinton, Mike Gravel and Chris Todd.

[Blarch]

3. And yet...

the only way his wife can win is if the supers go against the will of the voters.

What a hypocrite.

[NightWatcher]

5. Buck Fill. He has become a political hack on par with Carville

[madfloridian]

9. Yes, sadly he has. I never used to feel that way.

[george_maniakes]

6. Who exactly is he saying is disenfranchising voters...obama? n/t

[madfloridian]

13. Yup.

Sounds that way.

He is really getting down in the mud now. Obama and the two states. Cause he can't be blaming the DNC because Dean went on TV and gave permission.

[george_maniakes]

15. But if hes not calling obama specifically, who knows what he means, he has to clarify.

Like when he said hillary and mccain would be two leaders who loved this country (paraphrasing). Its a stupid statement in itself because who the hell running for president wouldnt love the country, but just because he left out obamas name you cant infer he believes obama doesnt love this country, you can only infer bill clinton made a very stupid statement.

[madfloridian]

17. Well, since the DNC and Dean said to "revote"...there is no one else...

he could be referring to. After the DNC said to revote...the states decided not to do so. Obama was not happy about revotes.

So it was an educated guess.

[george_maniakes]

24. obama should have pushed for revotes if he didnt. its important that these two candidates...

fight over florida and michigan in a contest.

[madfloridian]

27. I disagree. The two states broke the rules.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1927

[DJ13]

7. They were content to keep them disenfranchised until she needed their votes

:eyes:

[joshcryer]

11. Bullshit, Dean, Pelosi, Obama, and Hillary were for seating and recognizing them.

It's just that it's become unfanthomable that they would ever actually matter, and Obama is the only candidate here who doesn't want their votes to count.

[george_maniakes]

14. I thought hillary agreed that their votes wouldnt count? n/t

[odelisk8]

54. the bottom line

is that the states have the right to hold the primaries anyway they want...AND the DNC has the right to establish rules determining how the Nataional party operates...the States knew the rules and broke them...if the states want to hold votes in accordance with DNC rules they are free to...it isn't for Clinton or Obama to decide...it is up to the democratically elected govts of MI and FL...

[canucksawbones]

56. not really

They want to seat MI and FL if they play within the rules, Florida especially has flouted the rules and Hillary has bluntly stated her campaign has it's own rules. This whole thing has been about FL making a power play, they gambled, they lost (as they rightfully should have) FL and MI's state leaders need to stand up, apologize to the voters in those states for being responsible for losing those states delegates.

Children learn to behave by following the rules or facing the punishment, Florida and Michigan are the same, they apparently don't respect the rules that they voted for, and now have to face the consequences. They were given adequate notice, they were given ample time to provide solutions, they refused. The state leader's arrogance has everything to do with the problem.

Grant Kinsley

[Bigleaf]

8. Keep Bill out there campaigning. He's been a goldmine for Obama. The gift that keeps on giving.

[grantcart]

12. this is the "were out of kitchen sinks" so throw everything else phase of the campaign

[madfloridian]

31. Goes beyond kitchen sinks.

:hi:

[BeyondGeography]

16. Make it hard as we can for Obama to win MI and FL in the General so we can try again in 2012

Right, Billary?

[Texas Hill Country]

19. Obama's supporters in the state legislatures blocked the re-vote approval. period.

[madfloridian]

22. It was FL leaders who blocked it here.

By pretending they could not work it out. I believe Obama would take Florida this time. Many Dems we know who have been loyal to Clinton have changed to Obama since his speech.

[Texas Hill Country]

33. and many I know have switched to Clinton because they dont think he can get elected w/ Wright

I know MI was Obama supporters blocking, please inform me more about FL, would love to know some names.

[madfloridian]

48. Click the red button on the upper right of my posts.

There is a lot in my journal.

I have no problem with Obama blocking the revote...if indeed he is. It is mostly Hillary's folks here who don't want it.

[madfloridian]

20. Carville and Bill...teaming up to attack Obama over revotes

Betcha. Just heard Carville on CNN tell Wolf that there had to be revotes, and that Obama did not want it.

New tactic and a shameful one.

I was right

[Citizen Kang]

21. Bill didn't do a GODDAMNED THING....

when his buddies in the Bush Crime Family disenfranchised the ENTIRE COUNTRY in 2000.

Screw him.

[Mezzo]

23. that'd be because it IS disenfranchising the people if Florida and Michigan. nt

[madfloridian]

26. FL and MI were used as tools of the Clinton campaign.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1927

[Texas Hill Country]

34. yes, yes it is.

[kennetha]

25. This is just Obama's

amateur hour chickens coming home to roost. It was SILLY IN THE EXTREME to think they could just get away with stiff-arming and disenfranchising voters in two absolutely crucial states by ritual incantation of "the rules, the rules, the rules" as if that were a POLITICAL argument.

That's the problem with you guys. You think you are somehow morally entitled to the nomination, whatever it costs the party politically. But that's not how the supers or any person in their right mind will see it.

Make no mistake Florida and Michigan will be seated. If they are not, the nomination isn't worth warmed over pea soup anyway.

[madfloridian]

28. Yes, they will be seated....but not count toward nominee.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1927

[kennetha]

32. They will be seated; the delegations will have a vote

And they will throw their entire weight behind Clinton, who stands for them, and against Obama, who stands against them. The voters and their delegates will have the last laugh. And all this cutsie attempt to stiff arm the voters of Florida and Michigan will be Obama's undoing.

[madfloridian]

49. Wishful thinking.

They will be handled within the rules.

[AX10]

29. On this issue Republicans = Democrats.

[madfloridian]

30. They do seem to be blaming Obama for what MI and FL did.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1933

[Cha]

36. They'd blame Obama if

hilary stubbed her big toe.

[madfloridian]

35. More on his remarks....absolutely infuriating.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/wjc_nh_voted_ou.html#more

"South Bend, IN - Amid a festive crowd celebrating Dyngus Day in the Hoosier State, Bill Clinton today upped the ante on seating delegates from Florida and Michigan, criticizing his party's "strategy of denying and disempowering and disenfranchising the voters" there. His argument to seat Florida's delegates, in particular, came as he continued to claim that his wife would be the most electable general election candidate.

"She can win this race, and we have got to win," he told a crowd packed into the West Side Democratic Club. "And I must say that this new strategy of denying and disempowering and disenfranchising the voters in Florida and Michigan is I believe a terrible mistake. Hillary believes their votes should be counted. And I don't know how we're gonna go to those people in the general election and say you gotta vote for us even though we dumped all over you in the primary."

Clinton curiously said that Democrats "let New Hampshire go out of turn," adding that they have a Democratic secretary of state. "The Florida voters are totally innocent," he said. "They asked to vote on time."

The DNC's preliminary calendar called for New Hampshire to vote on Jan. 22. But Democratic Secretary of State Bill Gardner moved the first-in-the-nation primary to Jan. 8 when Michigan settled on Jan. 15. The DNC chose not to sanction New Hampshire, since the calendar rules were originally set in large part to protect the Granite State's tradition.

Speaking at another event in South Bend, Clinton said the stakes are particularly high given what he said was John McCain's strength in Michgian. "I think that we are running the risk of throwing both Florida and Michigan away if she doesn't get nominated because of the events of the last few days where there has been a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise those voters," he said. "And don't you think it has not been a message there. Don't you think that they didn't get it. Sen. McCain is not going to be easy to beat. He has always run well in Michigan. He will run pretty well in Florida. She can win."


http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/wjc_nh_voted_ou.html#more

[paulk]

37. he's right

"I don't know how we're gonna go to those people in the general election and say you gotta vote for us even though we dumped all over you in the primary"

[madfloridian]

39. It was the state parties who broke the rules and "dumped" them.

The Clintons said fine until they needed the delegates.

[paulk]

40. who cares who broke the rules

go ahead and disenfranchise a couple of million Democratic voters

you can pat yourself on the back when we lose this November.

[madfloridian]

41. It matters a lot who broke the rules. The votes count in the general...

and they counted in the primary except for the delegates. That is a spin put out by the Florida party to stop the DNC fundraising.

[paulk]

50. babble...

[cooolandrew]

38. There is no deliberate attempt they are broke. Obama has no say on how the states decide.

[Cha]

45. david brooks wrote in the NYT

"Second, Obama’s lawyers successfully prevented re-votes in Florida and Michigan. That means it would be virtually impossible for Clinton to take a lead in either elected delegates or total primary votes."

So david brooks is dissembling in the NYT?

How could Obama's lawyers prevent this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5244365

[culacano]

42. Clinton states the obvious

Two huge states are left without having their votes count.

That is disenfranchisement. It wasn't the regular folks that broke the primary rules. It was the big shots. Why punish regular folks?
That is why, IMO, we are losing to McCain in FL and MI. They are very upset.

[madfloridian]

43. They did not feel that way until they needed the votes.

Kind of sad to see a former president lower himself to that.

[crankychatter]

44. I knew they'd litigate

The party probably needs a split

too bad it has to happen at the most critical moment in US History

btw I much enjoy your posts

thanks for reminding me why I lurk here

[tammywammy]

46. Welcome to DU

:hi:


I agree, MadFloridian's posts are the most informative on this Florida primary situtation.

[madfloridian]

47. I appreciate that.

I do think before it is over there will be at least two more lawsuits...one starting up the chain again from Tampa...and one from the Clinton campaign.

It is a year we had so much going for us. :hi:

[madfloridian]

51. Ok for Hillary to demand the delegates...not ok for Obama to say no??

Is that a double standard I see creeping out in the comments?

Hillary's campaign agreed with the sanctions before she needed the delegates...now she wants them.

Yet to some it is wrong for Obama to fight to follow the party rules and keep her from getting them?

If that is truly what is happening...then a big old double standard.

[Buzz Clik]

52. Bill said that? Wow. What an original concept.

[madfloridian]

53. Top Florida fundraisers for Hillary pressuring Dean....

Another of Hillary's top donors is pressuring Dean personally about Florida.

In an interview with Election Central, venture capitalist Alan Patricof, a member of Hillary's finance committee and one of the Democratic Party's most influential fundraisers, said that he'd privately urged Dean to do more to get the Florida and Michigan delegations seated -- something that's crucial to the Hillary camp's hopes of closing the gap with Obama.

"I've expressed to Dean my feeling that it's critical that this matter be resolved on a timely basis," Patricof says. "The voters in Florida and Michgan cannot be disenfranchised."

More:

Pushing to seat the Florida delegates, at least one top Clinton fund-raiser, Paul Cejas, a Miami businessman who has given the Democratic National Committee $63,500 since 2003, has demanded Democratic officials return his 2007 contribution of $28,500, which they have agreed to do.
“If you’re not going to count my vote, I’m not going to give you my money,” said Mr. Cejas, who was the United States ambassador to Belgium from 1998 to 2001.

Christopher Korge, a Florida real estate developer who is another top fund-raiser for Mrs. Clinton, held an event last year in his home that brought in about $140,000 for the national party, which was set aside in a special account for the general election battle in Florida. But he told committee officials this week that if Florida’s delegate conundrum was not settled satisfactorily he would be asking for the money back.

“If we do not resolve this issue,” Mr. Korge said, “I think it’s safe to say there will be a request for a return of $140,000.”

That is called bribing the referee

[ecdab]

55. This is the kind of damage that Democrats can only inflict upon

themselves. Republicans could never credibly demoralize Democrats in Michigan with the kind of BS Bill and Hillary are throwing out. This is the main reason I believe this campaign needs to be brought to a close prior to Hillary doing further damage to Democrats in the General Election.

[mod mom]

57. where the f%#! was Bill Clinton in 2000 and 2004? Opps my bad, those Dem wins would have

prevented Hillary's chance this year.

His silence was deafening.

[BlueJac]

58. Go get a blow job Bill and shut your pie holel.....quit being a fool......

You never did a fucking thing for me except NAFTA

[ajamo]

61. If Michigan would to re vote?

Would it be honest?
If it was honest, and Obama's name was on it I think he would come out on top. Most people in Michigan like democracy with honesty.
NFTA she had nothing to to with it. Bullshit, that my friends is the same as Bushit. Putting Hillary and Bush in a bag dumping it out comes out the same. Throw dirt Hillary we can too!

[mmonk]

59. Yeah. Saw that setup a mile away to disingenuously

blame Obama.

[ajamo]

60. Michigan Democratic Voter

There would be no re voting in my state if I have anything to do with it.
It is not Obama's fault that the State Party Officials screwed up, they are good at that for sure.
Example: I've sent two letter to the State Chairman asking for an interpretation on who to press charges against a County Party Chairman if he violated the County chartered by laws. That was last year, I'm still waiting an answer.
Instructions on how to vote the primaries if our candidate's name did not appear on the ballot. Our county party officer knew this, but did not put it in the local papers nor did they mail instructions out to the Democrats on their mailing list. I waited and waited to see it in the papers, I, yes, I finally put it in the papers for the people to understand. No write in names would be accepted, and if our person's name did not appear on the ballot to vote uncommitted. Just a note: Our county officers were voting for Clinton.
Don't push the blame on Obama, and for the Clintons, in my book they are not different than Bush. I say no more Bushes or Clintons in the White House.