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Charlie Cook on Florida: "Monumental Incompetence"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:44 PM
Original message
Charlie Cook on Florida: "Monumental Incompetence"
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 11:47 PM by madfloridian
Charlie Cook at the National Journal really slaps the Florida Democratic leaders for their stunt with the primary date. It is seldom anyone bothers, so I am glad to see it.

Monumental Incompetence

Apparently things are different in Florida -- more challenging, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The two major political parties set rules for the 2008 presidential primaries and caucuses, establishing windows during which states could hold their contests. In their infinite wisdom, the parties allowed, by prearrangement, a few states to vote before their window opened.
Florida and Michigan weren't granted exceptions, but they decided to jump the line and hold their primaries early, in a game of political chicken with the national parties. The parties, as it turned out, didn't blink.

The most powerful sanction allowed under Republican Party rules is for a state to lose half of its delegates. Because there is no provision for the Republican National Committee to change those rules during an election cycle, that punishment stands. The Democratic National Committee's rules called for all delegates selected in violation of party rules to be disallowed, which was done.


Cook points out the many other states who manage to handle special elections quite easily.

Meanwhile, unlike California, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, South Dakota, Texas, and Virginia -- states that have held hurry-up special elections in recent years because of House vacancies -- Florida can't seem to find a way to conduct a statewide election between now and the scheduled end of the nomination season. That is in early June, 70-odd days from today and about half a year after Florida knew it needed a Plan B if it didn't want its Democratic delegation to be shut out of the national convention.

Florida Democrats lamely blame their Republican governor and GOP-controlled state Legislature for this mess, but to most observers their opposition to the nonsanctioned January date seemed to be posturing more than anything else, and it still doesn't explain why nothing constructive has happened since then. What we've seen is a monumental failure of leadership on the part of state Democratic Chairman Karen Thurman and other party officials. For those who don't buy the incompetence argument, the alternative view is that the state party officials simply capitulated to the Obama campaign, which didn't want a revote lest it give Hillary Rodham Clinton a chance to close the delegate gap. Either way, Florida's Democratic voters deserve better than what they've gotten. Florida could have opted for an ordinary primary, a caucus, a "firehouse" primary, or even a vote-by-mail primary. Instead, the Sunshine State decided to punt. Barack Obama, who lost both Florida and Michigan, has chimed in to suggest that he and Clinton just split the states' delegates down the middle, an idea that raises the question of why we bother to hold elections at all.

It is truly astonishing that a state and one of its major parties have opted to declare the political equivalent of Chapter 11 bankruptcy, claiming they are incapable of fulfilling their electoral and democratic obligations. And the rest of us got so worked up over the infamous "butterfly ballot." Harrumph!


Charlie is wrong about their giving in to the Obama campaign. They did not want the revote because they know that at this point in time Obama might win a revote. He very well could. That or it would be so close that Hillary would not have the advantage as before.

A person who is doing some work for us asked hubby quietly today if we were Democrats and who were we voting for. He said they were Republicans and like that Obama guy. He also asked what was wrong with the Democratic party...that they were not willing to work with their party leaders. People do notice.

On another note, there are a couple of petitions winding their way through to the rules committee from a Florida DNC member...they will be heard in a couple of weeks.

Here is more on that.

Ausman petition to be heard

The folks who stripped Florida and Michigan of their delegates — the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee — held a conference call this afternoon to discuss changes to the delegate selection plans for the two U.S. territories (Puerto Rico had a typo in its plan — the election date).

..."Committee co-chairwoman Alexis Herman, pictured right, started the call with an update on Florida and Michigan.

On Florida, Herman told the members that a pair of appeals from Florida DNC member Jon Ausman were moving through the process. She said she expects a staff review of the appeal to be finished within two weeks.

“We think it would be inappropriate for there to be discussion during this meeting about those specific challenges,” Herman said. “But we want you to know that it is our expectation that we would reconvene this committee to discuss the appropriate next step.”

Ausman is claiming that (1) the party’s charter protects superdelegates from being stripped from a state and (2) party rules stipulate the penalty for an early primary is half, not all, of a state’s pledged delegation. The Leon County Democrat believes the appeal for superdelagates is his strongest argument, which committee member and Hillary Clinton advisor Harold Ickes said last week has “considerable validity.”


Well, see, actually it is not true that the penalty is only half.

Under the DNC delegate selection rules, if a state party’s plan violates the rule with respect to timing, the number of its pledged delegates—those delegates awarded proportionally to candidates based on the primary or caucus results—is automatically reduced 50%(without any action by the RBC or DNC); no member of the DNC can attend the Convention as a delegate; no Member of Congress can attend the Convention as a delegate; and if applicable, the state’s Democratic governor can not attend the Convention as a delegate. In addition, any presidential candidate who campaigns in the state for the event in violation of the rules cannot receive any pledged delegates from that state. In addition to these automatic sanctions, the DNC the RBC has authority under the rules to impose additional sanctions, including further reductions in the state’s delegation.

At its meeting on August 25, 2007, the DNC RBC found Florida’s plan in noncompliance with the DNC rules, and voted to increase the sanctions against Florida by reducing the state’s delegation by 100% unless the state party, within the 30-day period allowed by the Committee’s regulations, submitted a plan for an alternative, state party-run process on or after February 5 that would be used to allocate delegate positions.

FL knew they would lose ALL their delegates if they did not show "good faith"


I hate the Ausman idea that superdelegates should count. They are the ones who caused all the problems to begin with. I hope the committee does not do that. Unfortunately, superdelegates have power and can exert tremendous pressure.




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TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree the super D's should be excluded if anyone is
letting their votes count and not the pledged delegates count would be an even worse travesty. (And I don't think ANY of their delegate votes should count.)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. No superdelegates, and I don't envy that committee
:hi:
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. its rather hard to lose a primary (obama) when you obey the rules
and don't campaign or keep your name in. Obama didn't lose them. He followed the rules.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Madfloridian, I'm so glad we have you to keep us up to date on all the FL developments
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 01:44 AM by housewolf
I've learned much more about the situataion from you over the past few days.

Thank you!

:toast:


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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. Obama, or Hillary supporter... everyone must admit the idiocy
Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 02:13 AM by JCMach1
of the Florida Democratic party in this matter is boundless!

However, over the years, I have come to expect nothing less from the Florida Democratic party!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. And you should know more than most, JC. You saw their ruthlessness.
And it still goes on.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. K & R
:thumbsup:
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. Florida, why is it always Florida nt
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Factor in the fact that the state is so broke, it can't afford a re-vote.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. MF, once again great post
I think those betting sites should add a question for the 2008 GE, 2012 and 2016 elections:

Will Florida screw up another election?


I'll place $1000 bet on that one any day.
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R - Must Read!
madfloridian has been following this story closely, and has shovelled aside the FDP's BS to uncover what is really going on. Anyone wanting to know the truth should be reading her journal.

BTW, I agree that no matter how FL's delegate problem is resolved, the SDs should not be seated since they are the FDP leaders that created the problem.
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featherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. Nothing in this primary campaign has damaged the Party more
than the Clinton faction claiming that the DNC is "disenfranchising voters" in MI and FL. Cynical, misleading, careless, and destructive are a few of the adjectives that come to mind.

Clinton's cynical decision to leave her name on the Michigan ballot and then claim a "win" against those that removed theirs in compliance with the spirit of the DNC's ruling tells me all I need to know about how she would govern:

Laws and rules don't apply to her
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I agree. It is destructive. It is meant to be that way. A former president...
trying to divide the party. A real shame. Bill Clinton is using this FL and MI problem as a campaign issue now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. John Nichols lately is after the head of Dean on a platter.
He has a short post up today with several things that catch my attention negatively. He has been doing this a lot lately. The fact remains that he is not fully up on the PR story. He just assumes nothing is going on behind the scenes. This is not the John Nichols he used to be.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=302277

This Florida Fiasco has brought out the worst in pundits.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Oh, how unfortunate.
I usually count on him for a deep insight into a situation most others gloss over. He let me down on this one.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I have counted 3 times recently he has tossed stuff out like that.
The latest before this was about who was worse for the party...Dean or Karen Thurman. Kind of pathetic. It does not make sense for him to say things like this.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you.
I'm so sick of seeing the "but nobody ever said they'd lose all the delegates!" crapfest.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. They knew they would lose them all. Spin from FL won out on this issue.
I see it every day on TV here. It is the worst kind of incompetence.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. I see a lot of Florida Republicans going for Obama.
A close friend of mine is campaigning for a State Senate seat, in a heavily Republican district of Florida. She's been going door to door, for months, getting signature petitions signed to get on the ballot.

She made a decision early on, that she wouldn't just knock on Democratic households, but Republicans as well. She is dumbfounded by the amount of Republicans that say they like Obama, and want to vote for him in November. And, BTW, she leans Clinton.

The good news is, she called me last night to inform me that she now has more than enough signatures to qualify for the ballot. :toast:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. A lot of Republicans feel lost...they really like Obama.
He has impressed many people.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. It is not incompetance, it is Florida
You can't expect then to do much better. It is Florida after all.
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Pewlett Hackard Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. from Fla
must be the heat.
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canucksawbones Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. superdelegates
It seems at least some of the superdelegates are automatically excluded, those being members of congress and members of the DNC from that state and the governor (should he have been a democrat)

Unfortunately this whole things stinks of the Florida Democratic Party trying to get substantially more influence over the federal democratic party and to push the DLC ideals back into the DNC. Seeing that altogether too many Florida democratic leaders seem to be altogether too cuddly with republicans suggests bad news if Florida is allowed to get it's way.

Letting Florida have delegates in this primary amounts to bad behaviour being rewarded, encouraging bad behaviour in future elections (as it would seem obvious that the DNC won't enforce rules in the future if they won't this time) and will encourage other states to go rogue as well. It also punishes those states that keep to the rules.

The candidates agreed that Florida and Michigan wouldn't count, Florida and Michigan voted for these rules and didn't follow them. The candidates shouldn't be pushing for new rules or new elections, nor should Florida and Michigan. The state's leaders need to fess up that they were making a power play, they lost, promise not to pull this crap again, get behind the eventual nominee and encourage the voters to express their will with thought in the general, rather than making rash "I'll punish those bastards" votes.

It's all unfortunate, it is a mess, but Florida and Michigan knew what the punishment was, the only expectation should be to take it. When we tell our children we will punish them for acting a certain way, the only way they learn is to make good on that promise. Florida and Michigan will learn only if the rules are followed.

Grant Kinsley
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. I am obviously missing something.
I'm hoping you can set me on the right path on this.

It was my impression that the FL legislature is fairly overwhelmingly (R). It has also been my impression that the Democrats offered an amendment to the primary date legislation to move it back after the 2/5/08 date the DNC was requiring, and were out voted by a pretty sizable margin, with one of the 14 Democrats in the Senate voting with the Repubs, and one absent.

Maybe I do not have the full story. The person I heard, on C-Span WJ, --I have forgotten his name, but I think he was the Chair of the FL Democratic Party, was asking what they were supposed to do, since they did try, but were badly outvoted.

Can you tell me what he left out of "his side" of the story?

I am asking this honestly, not snidely. There must be some part of the story I am missing.

Thanks, madfloridian.
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cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. Does anyone know if FL & MI are losing their Super Ds also?
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 03:20 PM by cameozalaznick
And since FL and MI don't count, has the number needed for nomination been adjusted accordingly? Anyone know?
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