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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:15 PM
Original message
False Experience Claims Have Ended Careers and Worse
In 1996 Admiral Mike Boorda, one of the best Sailors to serve in the U.S. Navy, was caught up in a controversy about his ribbons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_M._Boorda

He was reported to have been despondent over a news media investigation, led by David H. Hackworth, into Valor device enhancements he wore on his Navy Achievement Medal and a Navy Commendation Medal (small brass Vs, signifying valor in combat), which the media report claimed he was not entitled to wear.



Boorda shot himself on May 16, 1996, and died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest.

I knew Adm. Mike Boorda. I interviewed him on a couple of occasions. I was a Petty Officer 3rd Class (E4) serving in the Navy and stationed at Naval Station Anacostia at the Naval Media Center working for Navy/Marine Corps News ('93-'95).

I interviewed Adm. Boorda months earlier about the Navy's new evaluation system which was supposed to deflate evals. Navy evals had become very inflated and most Sailors were ranked as 4.0 unless their supervisors wanted to put a black mark on their careers. After I interviewed Adm. Boorda about the changes, he personally took the time to ask my opinion about the changes and what I thought the deckplate Sailors in the fleet would think about them. I know he had spoken with hundreds of Sailors about the changes, but he wanted to know my opinion as well. He also commented on my foot, because it was broken at the time. No surprise, he noticed pretty much everything and cared about his Sailors.

I was stationed in Guam when he killed himself. While I was aware of the news about his ribbons, I was shocked and torn apart that he would take his own life out of shame for the mistake. He is still missed.

In the coming months after Adm. Boorda's death, former CNO Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, who was Boorda's commander in Vietnam, later indicated that Boorda was authorized to wear them. In 1998, one of Adm. Boorda's sons requested a review of the Admiral's service record. The Board for Correction of Naval Records, the ultimate arbiter of whether Boorda was entitled to wear the Combat V on both Medals, determined that he was not.

Adm. Zumwalt defended Adm. Boorda fervantly. He said that even though Adm. Boorda had not earned the awards, he could see how the mistake was made given Adm Boorda's experience during Vietnam.

While Adm. Zumwalt was distraught and defending Adm Zumwalt, other Vietnam vets were not so forgiving.

My jaw hit the floor when I heared one vet say that Adm. Boorda did the right thing. That vet's only regret in regard to Adm. Boorda was that Boorda got off easy and didn't have to face what he had coming to him for claiming combat awards not earned.

The reason I'm posting this is to underscore how hardcore veterans are about serving in combat zones and how it is nothing to make light of.

I heavily disagree with the veteran who thought Adm. Boorda did the right thing. I think his remark is disgusting and that a tiny medal device on a ribbon is no reason for someone to end his life. I wish someone could have gotten to Adm. Boorda and stopped his actions. He was a fantastic Sailor and CNO.

Official claims of experience are taken pretty serious inside the military, especially when they're related to combat experience.

For those who believe such claims are trival and should be shrugged off, I'll tell you straight up that many take them very serious.

Making up stories about sniper fire and running for cover might be funny if you're watching "Hot Shots Part Deux," but not in real life.

We're not talking about something someone else said, we're talking about a direct and repeated claim about experience a candidate wanted to define her.

A defining moment she includes in her 35-year record of "experience" of change.

Too bad that moment is a complete lie.

EXPOSED: http://current.com/items/88876413_cbs_exposes_hillary_clinton_bosnia_trip
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. George O'Leary
was fired as the head football coach at Notre Dame after 5 days when it was learned he had included in his resume that he had a masters degree from a school where he took classes but never graduated and for claiming he had lettered in football 3 times in college but had actually never played in a game.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And some people don't even have to make them themselves... Like your avatar.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. There is something in Clinton's personality that creates the need
for her to do this.

Is it pure evil? No, I don't think so.

But, having had a TS clearance, I also think it is something that would be disqualifying to keeping a TS clearance especially one that has with access to everything.

Misstatements, hyperbole, call it what you will, having them pointed out is embarrassing. The higher and more public you go, the more embarrassing they threaten to become.

That embarrassmet is a handle by which those armed with a contravening truth can achieve political blackmail.

Considering the state of world affairs, I don't want a president with that problem.



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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Bottomline ...
She'll pander to anyone.



That's why she lies.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. As a Viet Nam veteran, I have nothing but pity AND contempt for those who'd make such false claims.
It's disgusting. As a draftee, I recall the "medal chase" that lifers were subject to ... and how the people I admired the most were those who DOWNplayed their experience. There were several occasions when we, a headquarters company, came under indirect fire and guys incurred minor injuries. While they'd technically qualify for a Purple Heart, I don't remember anyone that countenanced the notion even when it was suggested. In the years immediately afterwards, I did my damnedest to "put it behind me" and fade back in to the "civilian population." Any attention I received was more often unpleasant than anything else. I remember being appalled at all the "wannabe Rambos" who cropped up in the early 80s. Disgusting.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. As Vietnam veteran, I just think it's a personality thing.
Usually by some sort of way of being competitive and/or needing to get attention.







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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. attention
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. .
:eyes:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Gore Is a Liar
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Wha?
How did Gore come into this?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. When you have no defense, you shout "But brother did it TOOOO!", even if it's not true.
Pathetic, isn't it?

Tesha
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Prove it or shut the hell up.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Al Gore never made up phony war stories.
Hillary did.

Republicans lied about Gore. People are exposing Hillary's lies, and it ain't pretty.

If you're too stupid to realize the difference between telling a lie and exposing a liar, that's your problem.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. These things are a big deal to veterans.
Not something to kill yourself over but veterans look with great disdain on those who tell phony "war stories."

There's a big veteran population in Pennsylvania.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Too True
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. But she's a CLINTON. Rules do not apply. n/t
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I Guess She Can Say Anything


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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. Boorda was a good guy
A really good guy. It later turned out that showboating idiot Hackworth, who was birddogging Boorda about the medals, sported ribbons he wasn't entitled to wear, either. A fucking shame.
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Voltaire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Admiral Boorda
Was an enlisted man's friend. One of the best line officers I have ever had the chance to serve under.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, I agree
My wife is a Navy vet and it was a welcome change for enlisteds to work under a CNO who was clearly still one of them.

One sailor couldn't bear the dishonor, while "America's Most Decorated Soldier" carried on. So sad.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/16/hackworth/
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. It's still a tragedy
I'm glad so many still remember him and have as high opinion of Adm. Boorda as I have.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. She's gotten a free ride on her lies
and it's time for that free ride to END.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Vets Are Pissed


New York Post, March 26, 2008
Now Bunko Hill is Under Fire
Insulted Military Blasts Her Serial 'Sniper' Lies
By GEOFF EARLE and CHARLES HURT, Post Correspondents
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03262008/news/nationalnews/now_bunko_hill_is_under_fire_103582.htm

WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton's lies about risking her life under sniper fire during a visit to Bosnia as first lady have infuriated the US military brass and troops.

"She has no sense of what a statement like that does to soldiers," fumed retired Maj. Gen. Walter Stewart, the former head of the Pennsylvania National Guard.

"She is insulting the command in its entirety," he said yesterday.

<SNIP>

Ouch ... no doubt that if vets are serious about only wearing medals that have been earned, that they would flame Hillary's manufactured story about sniper fire. The writing was on the wall on this one.

NOTE: I know the article is from the Murdoch owned New York Post. However, if the quotes are real then they're real. Real the article for the quotes and discount the rest.

I do feel this will have an impact and Vets will be voicing their opinions.
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