How does Obama win when 55% of Clinton voters would only be somewhat likely to vote for him in GE?

[Herman Munster]

And to be fair, only 55% of Obama voters would be somewhat likely to vote for Hillary against McCain.

Democrats have a big problem.

A big big problem that means both candidates are fucked unless they team up together on a dream ticket.

This is the problem with identity politics. I know it's hard to wrap most of your vicious little minds around this fact but outside of the little liberal bubble known as the blogosphere there is another world out there.

A world filled with people who have lives outside of politics and aren't obsessed with every tingle tweety gets in his thighs or special revelation from the pulpit Oberman delivers.

A world filled with conservative working class white democrats that voted for Reagan and like their politicians with an edge, tough and even vicious, because unlike the latte liberals that support Obama working people know the world is tough and unfair. They want a fighter working for them that won't take any shit from republicans and will fight fire with fire when necessary to beat them. They identify with Hillary.

A world filled with older women that have been spit upon their whole lives as second class citizens and seen young pretty boys with less experience but all the right talk get promotions ahead of them. They identify with Hillary.

A world filled with latinos who are grateful to the Clinton's for the attention they paid to their community for 35 years and isn't some johnnie come lately that is only concerned about their interests because he needs their votes to win elections. They identify with Hillary.

And yes a world filled with prejudice and older people set in their ways, who may be open to supporting a black candidate like Colin Powell with decades of experience (even the wrong kind), but not a black candidate that has the stench of affirmative action and being jammed down their throats by a media and cult of personality they can never relate to. They identify with Hillary.

Those are Hillary's supporters.

And like it or not, they are half the democratic party.

And wishing and hoping and dreaming, isn't going to make them vote for Obama.

And wishing and hoping and dreaming, isn't going to prevent them from staying home or voting for John McCain.

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/pennsylvania/pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary

If Obama wins the Democratic nomination, just 55% of Clinton voters say they are even somewhat likely to vote for him against John McCain. That’s down two points from 57%.

If Clinton is the nominee, just 55% of Obama voters say they are at least somewhat likely to vote for her against McCain. That’s down nine points from 64%.

[lisa58]

1. how does Hillary win when she doesn't get the nomination?

[polichick]

14. You're being rational - that's a problem for the Clinton campaign. :)

[Herman Munster]

16. by facing President McCain in 4 years

[lisa58]

38. who is going to nominate her in four years...

...if she hands the presidency to McCain by destroying the party?

[Terry_M]

44. Hope you realize that

Many will blame Hillary for her weakening Obama if Obama is nominated and loses...

[Raine]

49. That's the plan, that's why she will

destroy Obama so she can face MacCain in 4yrs instead of having to wait 8yrs. x(

[earthlover]

59. So you ADMIT this? Amazing.

Anyone who cares about our Party and our country would not view 4 years of McCain as anything other than shit.

To hillary herd members, the four years are just a prelude to McCain's buddy Hillary....except it would be hard to defeat an incumbent. Even Bush got "re-elected"!

[Herman Munster]

67. it will be easy to defeat a going on 77 year old incumbent

[earthlover]

69. So...you really do hope that the Democratic nominee loses in 08 so Hillary can run in 12?

FUCH YOU!

[against all enemies]

72. That explains Hillary trashing the likely DEMOCRATIC nominee.

And why she is so hated. She is just like Lieberman - looking out for herself.

[DerekJ]

83. And who is going to support her in 4 years.

I expect that every Obama supporter from the 90 years old grandpa to the 18 years old college kid will never forgive her for her current run. Especially if she was the reason for Obama to lose. They will support the next best candidate.

[JVS]

86. What makes you think she'll get the nomination then?

[peoli]

23. great rhetort!

[surfermaw]

51. I doubt that will be the case, however the shoe on the other foot Obama votes would be less

You know what you Obama voters are loosing him votes, it simple you are making democrats angry talking about other democrats, we have to stick togeather...Cool it or loose it.

[roguevalley]

61. anyone who takes their ball home in a huff deserves to get drafted,

which they will under mcinsane. Anyone who won't vote for the nom needs to re-evaluate why they are not only here but in the party.

[LakeSamish706]

2. When push comes to shove and the choice is between either Obama or ...

McCain (with his 100 years more in Iraq) they will vote for Obama....

[zanne]

9. Hell, yes!

We're Democrats--we argue with each other, but when push comes to shove we stay with our party.

[C_U_L8R]

3. He's going to have to win them over

and it would be nice if Hillary helped
but that might be expecting too much.

It would also be nice if HRC DUers helped as well
but that isn't expected either

[LSparkle]

4. Independents, "Reagan Democrats" are more likely to vote for him

He'll more than make up for what (few) HRC Democrats jump over to McCain
by appealing to anti-war Repugs and independents.

[billybob537]

5. That's a nightmare ticket

a dream ticket is Obama/Edwards.
Hillary brings up the negatives/ Edwards enhances Obama.

[TK421]

6. A good, lengthy post...but somehow wasted on the Obamite psyche

I commend your efforts, though

[Bonobo]

7. He will get them. Search your feeling, Luke, you know it to be true.

:rofl:

[Yael]

8. I thought you all were on strike or a boycott or something.

[rocktivity]

10. Obama wins the GE the way he's BEEN winning

with independents and fed-up ex-Repubs/loyal Bushies.

:headbang:
rocknation

[totodeinhere]

11. We can thank the Clinton campaign for driving up Obama's negatives.

Clinton's negatives were already high.

[40ozDonkey]

12. That's the next push.

Since she couldn't get the nomination, now she's hoping she'll be entitled to a VP spot.

As this Democratic Party finds the cowards way out every time, you may be right.

I called this yesterday or two days ago, let's see if we're right.

[apocalypsehow]

13. Lord have mercy - what happened to that "boycott"?

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

34. Maybe it wasn't gender-neutral enough?

Perhaps some expect a "girlcott" and don't know that "Boycott" is actually a person's name? :eyes:

[VolcanoJen]

15. Am I the last Obama supporter who trusts that Hillary will do the right thing?

Look, like they were saying on MSNBC today... after all the slime that George W Bush threw at John McCain, McCain put it aside and supported Bush, and again in 2004.

Poppy Bush threw all kinds of slime at Reagan, and ended up on the ticket.

Once Obama is the clear nominee, Hillary will cool her heels a bit and then join in the excitement by throwing her full-throated support behind him. If for no other reason than her own political survival will depend on it.

And then, hopefully, the Hillary fans will follow their leader and we'll have a Democratic President.

Let's try, if we can, to remind ourselves that we should celebrate what we have in common, not that which tears us apart.

[TahitiNut]

37. You mean ... like she supported John Kerry?

:rofl: ... and Al Gore? :rofl: :rofl:

[VolcanoJen]

41. Well, fair enough.

But this time, it really is different. She put her own political legacy on the line, and I'll bet she gets a grassroots challenger in her next primary, and that will be the least of her problems.

Never underestimate the ability of Hillary Clinton to find an opportunity that pays dividends, and just seize it. :-)

[still_one]

17. I'll tell you Herman, because as much division as you would like to spread

when we get to the voting booth and realize that it will either be continuing the policies of the bush administration or voting for a Democrat, WE WILL VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT

No matter what any of us say about not voting for the opposition, the truth is we all really have very little choice, unless they truely want to seal the fate of the Supreme Court, extend the Iraq War, trash the economy, healthcare, and social security for us and future generations

It is quite obvious what 8 years of republican rule has done

As far as the polls, screw um, the only poll that counts is the real one

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

48. I hear you, but previously Herman himself reluctantly said he would vote for Obama

if he was the nominee, so I take him at his word, and for that very reason, that is why I believe 99% of the Democrats will support whoever the nominee is

[Thickasabrick]

18. I'd venture 20% of Clinton "voters" are republicans. Every republican

I've talked to wants her to be the nominee and some have even admitted to voting for her in their state primaries.

These republicans are registered as independents.

People really do not realize the breadth of Clinton hate among republicans and some independents. It's totally irrational - but it's there.

[Noirceuil]

19. Hillary is too good for Obama...

Hillary is a highly qualified lady who is well-versed in foreign and domestic policy. I can't imagine her having a stooge for a Vice-President or playing second fiddle to a total incompetent.

[AllentownJake]

26. I can't imagine her

Being President when her campaign has been so freaking mismanaged.

You realize your losign to that inexperienced hack...so your either worse...or he isn't that much of a hack.

[AllentownJake]

27. Of course

If she is the nominee I'll vote for her because no matter how bad of an executive I think she is...I don't think she wants to invade Iran as part of her agenda.

[Johnny__Motown]

21. many of them are cross over republicans, voting for Hillary to screw up our chances in the GE

[cornermouse]

40. Or cross over republicans, voting for Obama because they see

him as weaker and easier to beat. Another possible theory. And oh yeah, kick.

[Johnny__Motown]

53. The math suggest otherwise, (sorry I know how you people hate math)

The numbers of repugs that have crossed over has changed since McCain has locked things up. There was a whole explanation on one of the cable shows last week. I forget which one sorry.


The truth is Repugs were voting for Obama instead of supporting a repug candidate until McCain won. Now repugs are still doing that but they are also voting for Hillary instead of voting for McCain. Her votes went up as soon as McCain clinched.

These cross over repugs do not support her. The see her as weak and want her to win so all the haters come out in the GE.


I know you won't believe this, but still there it is.


Maybe look into it a bit.

[cornermouse]

57. In all honesty.

I do see Obama as the weaker candidate. We know everything negative about Hillary that it is possible to know. I'm sure the repubs have some surprises up their sleeve about Obama.

It also didn't help when Obama supporters invaded other areas and started pressuring people who were in other areas to avoid them. And since they deprived me of a place that I considered safe, sane and somewhat tranquil, I decided to come out here and play with you. :evilgrin: Same thing with the "let it sink". If you want it to sink, clearly I should find it and it should be kicked back to the top.

[AllentownJake]

22. Take your ball and go home mentatlity

If HRC is the nominee I'll vote for her. Even if she gets it through somewhat questionable means because I know that McCain is crazy and is itching to invade Iran. My monthly contributions of $100 go to her. It's not much but its what I can afford. The only thing I won't do is volunteer because I can't lie to people when I call them or knock on their doors and tell them I like her. I'll volunteer for the challenger to the GOP SOB congressman we have in my district that supports McCain's insane policies because I like her over the asshole male.

See I belong to the Democrat Party...and I want to see a Democrat elected. I'm not a giant baby and just because my guy doesn't win the nomination doesn't mean I'm going to be a giant cry baby about it and screw the rest of the country because I have some entitlement as whatever ethnic or gender I am that a person of that group should be President of the United States.

So your threats of having a strike over the nominee because you won't play ball and the people on my side that say this kind of crap I'm equally as harsh too because there is too much at stake for us to be pissing and moaning over whether our guy is going to be President of not.

[Life Long Dem]

24. Because it's not November.

[Inspired]

25. I can't get too excited about an Obama/Clinton ticket.

Sorry.

I don't want to see Hillary on the ticket.

[AllentownJake]

29. Neither do I

I wouldn't like a Clinton/Obama ticket because if she gets it somehow I want him in the Senate speaking truth to power if she ever gets out of line.

If we need to unify the party there are plenty of other better qualified woman who could be a heart beat away. The types you couldn't be accused of playing affirmative action on because they'd be on the short list because of their own merit anyway.

[Ronnie]

81. "I want him in the Senate speaking truth to power"

When did he ever do this? Really. I'd like to know.
And, BTW, I will vote for the nominee. However, I know well many people who won't unless it's Sen. Clinton. I keep reminding them about the Supreme Court. Sometimes that makes them think. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's something we won't know till it happens. I am very afraid.

[AllentownJake]

85. Hey

I say the same thing to Obama supporters about Clinton.

Now I interupt the brief point of party unity for a familiar talking point.
.
Speaking truth to power...like he did before the IWR when your candidate was coddling up to the GOP.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

Hillary Clinton Addressing the U.S. Senate October 10, 2001

"We must stay the course” in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and asked for more troops to finish the job.
“We have to exert all of our efforts militarily”

November 29, 2003 Hilary visits the troops In Iraq and Afghanistan


Now that I got that away

Lets be honest for once to each other neither one of these candidate are exactly Lieberman. They are both pretty damn good senators in both their relatively short careers there (short compared to the avg service of the rest). She didn't have my vote from the beginning because she was wrong and didn't read the intelligence before the war.

She lost my vote further by the bone headed way she ran her campaign into the ground to the point she had to loan herself money.

Other than that I probably agree with her on alot of things.

[99th_Monkey]

28. He'll run an excellent & well-executed campaign, just like he's done in the Primary

as soon as Hillary wakes up to that she's NOT the nominee.... in the meantime, she's continuing to selfishly
cling to her failed campaign for the nomination, and is further hurting the Democrats chances of winning.

[featherman]

30. It's March for goodness sake and feelings are running high

Let's take a deep breath... this will all get sorted out once there is a nominee and a ticket to run against John McCain.
Really, are people taking this stuff seriously... Rasmussen polls, I mean? Very naive.

[yardwork]

31. Democratic campaining for the general election has not yet begun.

I feel confident that Obama can win over enough people to win the general election. I'm becoming irritated with Hillary for prolonging the primary fight longer than necessary. It's becoming counter-productive.

[TahitiNut]

32. "Likely Democratic Primary Voters"

God only knows WHO that might include. Undoubtedly, some are folks who'll vote for McCain regardless ... and they're either hedging their bets or playing spoiler. After all, what would be the point in voting in a Republican primary?

I think a key paragraph in gaining just a little insight is ...

Thirty-three percent (33%) believe the U.S. and its allies are winning the War on Terror while 25% believe the terrorists are winning. Just 15% believe the situation in Iraq will get better over the next six months while 43% say the opposite.

If the same questions were asked on DU, just how many would say "the U.S. and its allies are winning the War on Terror"?? How many would say "the situation in Iraq will get better over the next six months "???

Now, don't beat the dead horse of "DU isn't the real world." That's nihilistic nonsense in any such discussion; it's irrelevant and yields nothing in comprehension. Most have at least a visceral contact with reality and it's NOTHING like the poll portrays ... at least not among people who'd vote Democratic.

[CreekDog]

33. well her numbers are 55% also

so what's the point here?

your post begs the question and mightily! the current strategy has hurt her ability with his voters and his vote with her voters and has helped McCain.

furthermore, it has not helped her win the nomination.

and you are confident in her why?

[Milo_Bloom]

35. You do realize these types of polls are nonsense, right?

All this measures is weak support v strong support... Clinton has only 45% "STRONG" support... meaning thsese are the people who care enough to tell someone they wouldn't vote for Obama to try and prop up Clinton.

MOST of those people are liars.

[Drachasor]

36. Everyone in the Democratic Party pushes her to campaign hard for Obama

I think that would make a significant difference, especially once McCain and the Republicans start attacking Obama.

[leftofcool]

39. Thank goodness I can write in my vote

[DemGa]

42. He doesn't -- it would be an EPIC LOSS -- nt

[BlueJac]

43. I refuse to discuss your garbage....

Support Obama and get out of the past!

[roseBudd]

45. I am going to say something totally sexist, I'm allowed I;m female. Clinton

supporters say they are going to break up with the democratic party if the party does them wrong by picking Obama. They are not going to break up. Not if they care about SCOTUS

[Hoof Hearted]

46. He doesn't.

[cornermouse]

47. kick because I think manipulation

of the process is abuse of the process and just plain wrong.

[randr]

50. |Because most of the people who now say they will not

vote for Obama will grow up in a few short months and assume their Democratic responsibility to remove the vile stench that permeates and will continue to permeate our Nations highest office.
Period!

[bpeale]

60. i don't OWE the democratic party a goddamn thing

[neverforget]

66. No you don't owe the Party anything. But for the sake of this COUNTRY

I would like to think more rational thinking will take place by the time November rolls around. Do we want 3 or 4 more right wingers on the Supreme Court? Do we want 4 more years of death and destruction in Iraq? Do we want 4 more years of mismanagement of the economy and everything else a Republican administration can put its hands on? Is that what you or anyone else who doesn't get their nominee want for the future of this country? If that is what you and others want, then we deserve what we get.

[bpeale]

71. this country abandoned me a long time ago

my thinking is not irrational. for the first time in my 60 yrs on this planet, i am seriously, and i mean SERIOUSLY, thinking of giving up my american citizenship and moving overseas. there are MORE freedoms in other countries. we go elect representatives & they are no sooner sworn in & they turn around & flip us the bird. and there is no retribution for this either. i am disgusted. and i don't want to feel that i will never be able to retire, never get to enjoy my so-called "golden" years.

and don't bullshit me with this supreme court crap. the supreme court is meaningless if there is no rule of law. i want to live where there is an informed citizenry who make decisions based on practical matters instead of bullshit rhetoric. if you think either HRC or BO are going to get us out of iraq, think again. they will no more do that than McCain will. if this election is not won in a landslide AND I MEAN A LANDSLIDE, the gop will steal it again. and the divisions in this party are so bad that i doubt the dems will ever be able to repair the hatred & mistrust. sounds like the gop has already done its work, huh? we have two egomaniacs running that would sooner destroy the democratic party and amerika than give in & make peace. i am done with both of them.

i was an edwards supporter and see no reason to compromise my principles to vote for less worthy opponents. and i see no reason to REWARD the democrats with a vote for seriously bad behavior. the democrats can kiss my ass. they are not worthy of my vote and they won't get it either. and there are a lot of us out there that won't compromise either. i am sick & tired of hatred, racism, sexism & all the other "isms" ... the dems wanted a first. well, they will get. the FIRST election where they pulled a loss out of a sure win.

yes, indeedy, you all WILL get the government you so richly deserve. and before you even comment about patriotism, don't go there. i served my country for 10 years as an Army woman on active duty. don't even go there.

[neverforget]

73. Which utopian country are you going too?

Well do you what you want. I'll stay and fight for my 3 year old daughter's future.

[bpeale]

75. the #2 country with the most freedoms --- Norway

and no, the US is not #1.

[neverforget]

77. I'm staying to fight for my daughters future. And yes SCOTUS matters.

[bpeale]

79. i'll take my daughter with me. & without the rule of law SCOTUS doesn't matter.

[neverforget]

80. I'm glad I don't have your chip on my shoulder. My back would hurt

[bpeale]

89. i am totally over this country

i am sick of the ignorance of the population that chooses rock stars over their own best interests. i am sick of fighting for people who will not fight for themselves. i am sick to death of hearing about "the good of the party." i am sick of a citizenry who doesn't care about anything as long as it doesn't affect them personally. i am sick of this sick, selfish society where there are NO consequences for anything.

but most of all, i'm sick of getting our representatives elected and then having them turn around and flip me off.

they all need to go right down the tubes, but that doesn't mean i have to go with them. you are welcome to if you want to.

[neverforget]

90. Bye. I hope you enjoy Norway. I just hope you can channel your

anger into something good.

[berni_mccoy]

52. Because 45% of Clinton's voters so far have been Repubs.

[PinkTiger]

54. Thanks Herman!

That is the best explanation of the mess were are in that I have read so far. I agree with everything you said, and I appreciate your post. Thanks so much.

[anonymous171]

55. If they give the nom to Hillary because of some stupid reason like this

I'll write in "FUCK HILLARY" and encourage everyone I know to do the same.

[PinkTiger]

56. Go for it.

You obviously have such class, such good breeding, like all the other Obama supporters. I congratulate you on the Obama Scorched Earth policy.

[anonymous171]

58. Way to project! Clinton supporters have this habit of doing that.

Hillary's campaign is the most negative. To deny that would be just plain stupid.

[PinkTiger]

74. Oh, but you were so, so postive.....

with your hateful invective. Just, as you would say, "Let it sink." LOL In your ass.

[Taxmyth]

62. I honestly don't know now if I could vote for Obama in the GE

Every day it seems like, I learn something new about Senator Obama that makes me think he's not the one I want in the White House. I'm already positive that I will not campaign for him and my opinion of his base has a lot to do with that since I gained most of my knowledge of his base from message boards such as this. I've said before that I would pull the lever for the Democratic nominee but now I'm not so sure.

Maybe this is my tacit acknowledgment of the "Bradley Effect".

[AllentownJake]

63. So

You would rather have a guy who thinks Al Quaeda is in Iran and jokes openly about bombing them and won't renounce the statement as a mistake afterwards.....You've got to be kidding me right.

THIS IS BIGGER THAN HILLARY or OBAMA.

I don't want Hillary in the WH but given the choice between her and McCrazy It isn't freaking close.

[Taxmyth]

68. Can't go into details

because of the nature of this board but Senator McCain does have some attractive qualities to Democratic Party voters who feel that a particular Democratic Party nominee for President is not deserving of their vote. Are they enough for me to pull the lever for him? In all probability, no. But he most certainly will attract other Democratic Party voters to pull the lever for him.

I think Senator Clinton stands a far better chance at beating Senator McCain in the General Election even with the paragraph above. She will draw traditional Republican voters to vote for her when the curtain is closed on the voting booth. Senator Obama just can't do that.

[AllentownJake]

84. I don't know which Republicans your talking to

But 70% of the republicans I know....hate her...they don't just hate her they really hate her. Fair or not for their reasons that is my experience. The other 30% are voting for McCain anyway so theres no use in arguing with them.

I know 4 GOPers who have switched their registration to Obama and will vote for him if he's the nominee in PA. If Clinton is the nominee they are voting for McCain. This Pastor thing isn't swaying them and 2 of them think the Clintons are behind the tapes...fair or not that is what they think. I know no one who is the other way around...again that is just my experience.

[fadedrose]

64. Hillary will be gracious enough to support BO and her supporters will follow suit..

and the reverse should be true of BO and supporters.

[morefoolyou]

76. Not all Obama supporters are democrats

The same cannot be said for HRC.

Some democrats see this as a negative, because they fear a republican conspiracy. At the same time, some Obama supporters took that simpleton Rush's advocacy of Hillary as evidence of a conspiracy against their candidate.

Most see it as an opportunity to change the current "way of politics", the stupidity of negative campaigns and the ridiculous divide of them/us football team mentality. This is a great carrot to wave in front of centrist democrats and republicans, and of course independents. By definition, centrists are in the vast majority.

Some don't see these issues and then attack others with different opinions, without taking into account the big picture.

Look, I burned up my first post in a reply in GD:P, and I don't even have a very sharp point.

[fadedrose]

82. Oh, this is your FIRST post

Welcome.

You can post in reply to as many as you like, no limit. You just can't start more than 3 threads.

I see what you mean. The Dems may follow their leader, but no everybody is a Dem...

I'm one of the Obama people who fears a conspiracy, as you mentioned, but I still can't vote for McLame.

I'm hoping HC will make nice if she wins it, but judging by Carville's attack on Richardson, it ain't gonna happen.

[Blondiegrrl]

91. Excellent first post. Welcome to DU! n/t

[Carrieyazel]

65. He can't. But Hillary would not win either. This divisive primary will blow it for us.

Too many disaffected people. Both would lose or not get votes on Election Day because of this mess.

[Armstead]

70. Ha,ha,ha,ha,haha

"A world filled with conservative working class white democrats that voted for Reagan and like their politicians with an edge, tough and even vicious, because unlike the latte liberals that support Obama working people know the world is tough and unfair. They want a fighter working for them that won't take any shit from republicans and will fight fire with fire when necessary to beat them. They identify with Hillary."

You mean these wonderful Reagan Democrats who want tough Democrats who won;t yield to Republicans?

Someone has to be a compete idiot to want to both support the Uber republican Reagan and yet want a Democrat who will not take any shit from Republicans. "I hate Republicans but i vote for them."

There is so much cognitive disconnect in that statement that anyone who is that schoizoid isn't worth pandering to....And if thye actually do want someone who won't knuckle under to the GOP, why would they support The Clintons who were the biggest weenies in terms of giving up that we've seen in a long time - maybe ever?

And Colin Powell? Mr. Affirmative Action himself? And someone whose own cult of personality is a total media myth?

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I would hope that a majority of Americans are not that brain dead yet.

[AX10]

78. If HRC is not the nominee, I can live with either of...

the last choices of the two remaining, Obama and McCain that is.
We'll be fine.

[Zhade]

87. Because most of them will grow the fuck up once she finally concedes her loss?

Oh, and she WILL lose, thankfully.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KAZ]

92. Do you participate in any of your threads? Just here to stir shit?

[Warren Stupidity]

93. back from vacation?