How does one "misremember"

[Control-Z]

whether or not one really is a law professor?

edit to add:

"Alongside my own deep personal faith, I am a follower, as well, of our civic religion," he says. "I am a big believer in the separation of church and state. I am a big believer in our constitutional structure. I mean, I'm a law professor at the University of Chicago teaching constitutional law. Actually, Obama is not a law professor, but a "senior lecturer." As Chicago Sun-Times columnist Lynn Sweet has pointed out, and I know from six-and-a-half years as a college adjunct lecturer, "In academia, there is a vast difference between the two titles." As Sweet also notes, however, Obama's misrepresentation of his academic position is the least of his credibility problems.]

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0804/0804obamafaith.htm

[ossman]

1. huh?

[grantcart]

3. I am guessing this is going to Obama being referred to as a 'law professor'

when in fact he was a 'law lecturer' as he was not a full tenured professor

[Control-Z]

8. Yes, but not being referred to.

Referring to himself as.

Big difference.

[grantcart]

12. actually it is a very minor difference, but go ahead and make a fool out of

yourself if you want. My brother is a lecturer at Gonzaga Law University and when it comes up and you say 'lecturer' the average person doesn't understand and asks so most of the time its just easier to say 'professor' although since he only teaches part time he is in fact a lecturer.

That is completely different than creating a life threatening experience out of whole cloth. But it is the kind of parsing that the Clinton's are well known for. Did you get it from the Clinton website?

[OlderButWiser]

2. It's a little trick...

...that her husband taught her.

[jenmito]

4. You can't "misremember" something 4 times. It was something that never happened. She lied.

Case closed.

[Whisp]

55. in order for it to be a true misremembering there had to have been another incident

similar to the sniper one she was wrong about.

so where did that happen?

[ProSense]

5. People refer to lecturers and instructors as professor all the time.

No one will stand up and fight for the title of full professor as a result.

Hillary lied, repeatedly.

[Control-Z]

6. Other people may

But he knows he not. He would remember doing the work to have that position. He lied. He exaggerated. He wanted to sound like something he is not. Period.

[styersc]

7. But lecturers do not refer to themselves as professor.

Unless they are trying to convince an audience that they have experience and status that they have not earned.

[Control-Z]

14. Exactly

I have HS students in my Adult education classes where I teach with a CA credential (in comuter applications and art). But I am not a HS teacher because I have not earned nor do I hold the credential to do so. If I claimed to be a HS teacher I would be out and out lying.

[ProSense]

15. Some do and it's not a big deal. This is nothing to compare to lying about sniper fire. n/t

[Control-Z]

19. It's a much bigger deal

One moment in time vs his status in life.

[ProSense]

23. This is a BS distraction from Hillary's repeated lies

Professor Obama and Me

Professor Obama was a listener, students say

[stillcool]

38. One moment in time?

repeated over and over for political gain? About 'sniper fire' in a war zone?

[grantcart]

17. my brother is a 'law lecturer' at Gonzaga Law University and if you use

that term with a layman it always gets a question. Its easier to simply say he teaches there or he is a professor there or a part time professor.

There are a hundred reasons why it is different from the farce of Hillary but the key difference is that it reflects a technical difference of status and not function, and more significantly he is not featuring as a important factor in his campaign. Hillary's boasting is part of a wide spread effort to give her foreign and diplomatic credentials she does not have.

[high density]

9. Lecturer vs. Professor?

Are we going back to arguing what the word of "is" is?

[MadBadger]

10. Ask Roger Clemens

[ossman]

11. So 2 wrongs = a right to Hillary defenders.

Thats all Ive heard on TV.... "they do it too". Kinda Rovean if you ask me.

[chapel hill dem]

27. That reminds me of Nixon's Law: If Two Wrongs Do Not Make a Right, Try a Third... n/t

[Johnny__Motown]

13. Most people would just ask. what the hell is a senior lecturer? Yes he dumbed it down for the masses

that is nothing like what Clinton did


this CBS video shows the evolution of her lie

In Dec she was not being served tea on the tarmac
In Feb the ceremony was moved inside and
In March she was ducking and running for the armored vehicle



http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3968001n




It seems pretty clear that she didn't get called on it early so she kept making the story better and better

[Control-Z]

16. Oh, that explains it all. n/t

[EFerrari]

56. Exactly. He made the labyrinth of titles simple.

He wasn't a reader, he wasn't a TA, he wasn't an associate and on and on and on.

Good luck to those trying to hook anyone with this bs.

[Muttocracy]

18. I had no idea what a lecturer, adjunct, etc. was until I went to grad school

How many American do you think know the difference? The people who care about this are the academics who are obsessed with status.

I've been an adjunct lecturer. I tell people I used to teach college classes, or used to teach at XYZ, or taught college (insert subject). While I've never referred to myself as a professor (in part because I only have an M.S., not a Ph.D.), I also do not tell people I was a lecturer (someone who speaks occasionally on campuses?), or an adjunct (a what?), much less an adjunct lecturer. They'd probably say, oh, I'm sorry, did that get better?

In terms of qualifications, isn't a J.D. enough to be a law professor? If he was claiming to have a Ph.D. or to have tenure, then you'd have a point.

edit for punctuation

[styersc]

21. You make the very point of the thread. Most people don't know

the difference, but he did when he claimed to be a professor.

I don't think its any big deal other then to point out that there is no one in this race, or any poilitical race, who is in a position to stand in judgement of any other candidate.

[Muttocracy]

22. But the difference for me is I don't have the terminal degree

so it would be a big jump for me to claim it. Obama has the terminal degree in his field, so he's not claiming any degrees he doesn't have by using shorthand in the middle of a question about broader issues (from the OP, it didn't sound like a question about his legal scholarship). If he was saying "my time as a college law professor makes me uniquely qualified to be president, moreso than Hillary or John" then there would be an issue.

This is much ado about nothing.

[spooky3]

37. But degree isn't the only thing that separates professors from adjuncts,

especially not at top schools. Given what you said about your background, I suspect you know this, as did Obama. His job was different from that of even a tenure track assistant professor, and drastically different from that of a full professor. Whether he claims legal scholarship makes him qualified to be president is irrelevant to whether he gave himself a job title that he really isn't entitled to, and which is of higher status than he had earned at the time. If no one outside academia cared about this, as you claim, then why didn't he just use the correct title?

I agree that this puffery is not a huge deal (at least not to me, obviously everyone can judge that for him/herself), but the other poster's point is a very good one -- that no one has perfectly clean hands in this race and so the glass houses-stone throwing advice is well-taken.

[Muttocracy]

46. I guess I just see that as shorthand with the public

"If no one outside academia cared about this, as you claim, then why didn't he just use the correct title?"

I'm assuming it was shorthand for his _non_ -academic audience that most people understood in context, i.e., I've taught constitutional law.

[spooky3]

49. But he could have simply said your i.e. phrase, and not used any title at all.

Again, with all of the huge problems our next Pres. will have to address, this is certainly not a big concern.

[Muttocracy]

25. and also my caution comes from the fact that I am surrounded by people who do know the difference

I work on a college campus. If my sister introduces me to a friend and mentions that I used to be a biology professor, I wouldn't go into the details of my adjunct lecturer status.

[IsItJustMe]

20. You must be desperate. Hair splitting anyone?

[Blue-Jay]

24. At the University of Chicago, Obama was regularly the target of snipers.

That's a fact.

[Symarip]

26. If you want to get technical...

http://www.cmu.edu/styleguide/capitalization.html

If you capitalize the 'P' it means you're tenured but a lower case 'p' means you are a teacher or, *pause for shock* a lecturer. Anyone who gets in front of a classroom is a professor. Technically, he is correct though it could be interpreted as misleading.


I wonder if Sinbad will come along and help Obama remember if he's tenured or not?

[Muttocracy]

28. yes, you're correct nt

[moc]

53. Actually, this is not correct.

The title "Professor" does not automatically imply tenure. It depends on the rules of the individual institution and how they deal with faculty in the non-tenure track (NTT). I was at one institution that used different titles for faculty in the NTT (Assistant Scientist, Associate Scientist, and Senior Scientist). Other NTT titles used include: "Research Scientist" or "Clinical Research Professor".

However, some institutions (like my current one) use "blind" track titles. That is, a top-ranked tenured professor has the title of Professor and a top-ranked NTT professor has the title of Professor. Just looking at the titles of faculty at my school would not tell you who is tenured and who is not.

There is also the issue of full professors on the tenure track. For example, a full professor who is tenured at his current university may decide to take a job at another university. The new university may bring him at the rank of Professor but withhold tenure for 2-3 years. This is very typical. It gives the new university a chance to find out if you're an ass or not. :-)

Finally, there's the issue of when tenure is awarded. Most Assistant Professors aren't tenured. Many/most institutions award tenure at Associate Professor level, but some don't award it until Full Professor. Some don't award tenure at all. Even if tenure is normally awarded with promotion to Associate Professor, it is possible to be granted promotion without tenure. Same thing going from Associate Professor to Full Professor if tenure is normally awarded at the Full Professor level.

This is probably more than you wanted to know. :-)

Dr. moc
Associate Professor (tenured)

[Swamp Rat]

29. Definition:

pro·fes·sor

–noun

1. a teacher of the highest academic rank in a college or university, who has been awarded the title Professor in a particular branch of learning; a full professor: a professor of Spanish literature.
2. any teacher who has the rank of professor, associate professor, or assistant professor.
3. a teacher.
4. an instructor in some art or skilled sport: a professor of singing; a professor of boxing.
5. person who professes his or her sentiments, beliefs, etc.

_______________

I'm a graduate student, and I see no problem referring to him as "professor."

He did not profess to be a Professor, but only a "law professor."

From what I have heard thus far, he professes well. :)

[bluedawg12]

39. He was a a teacher of the highest academic rank in a college or university

who has been awarded the title Professor in a particular branch of learning?

As far as what grad students call him--well, that doesn't make it so.


From what I have heard so far, he gives good speeches.

[Swamp Rat]

51. Straw Man

;)

[4themind]

42. I think number 3 could be said to apply

lol

[Muttocracy]

30. So are you going to write letters to the all the law professors who have endorsed Obama? nt

[woolldog]

31. Law Students give Obama big thumbs Up

Professor Cass Sunstein said. "We wanted him to join the faculty full-time at various different junctures. That's not a trivial fact. . . . If we want to hire someone, the faculty has to think they're tremendous. But he liked political life."


<snip>

Some Obama critics say because he had the title of "senior lecturer" he should not call himself "professor." U. of C. professors said Obama -- who practiced civil rights law for a time and stopped teaching in 2003 -- could have joined their ranks whenever he wanted.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article

[bluedawg12]

33. I could have bee a law professor "If I wanted to." ha ha ha n/t

[woolldog]

40. I guess you couldn't read the 2 short paragraphs.

He was asked to be a full-time professor there according to UChicago law professors. Learn to read, idiot.

[Jed Dilligan]

32. When you're the main instructor for the class, you're the professor

whether you are lecturer, adjunct, or regular faculty. When you're the only person in the department who gives any kind of attention to undergrads--usually the lecturer's role--it would be disempowering to your students not to accept the title. ;)

[bluedawg12]

34. When you are a lecturer that's what you are, not a Professor. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

36. You are a professor, maybe not a Professor

The only people who would make the distinction are the ass-kissing snots on the tenure ladder...

[spooky3]

44. if that were true, then Obama would have simply called himself by his

correct title, Senior Lecturer, or just say, "I'm a lecturer at U. of Chicago."

A draftsperson is not an architect, a medical intern is not a physician, a part-time violin teacher is not first violin in the orchestra. Words do have meaning.

[Jed Dilligan]

50. You should educate yourself about how universities work today

Most of the actual work that professors used to do is now done by lecturers. Claiming lecturer is a step on the way to professor, or even a step down, is a joke. A lecturer is just a professor with a raw deal.

[moc]

41. And your knowledge of this is based on what, exactly?

Pulling your opinion out of the sky? Are you an academic? Do you have any experience teaching at the college level? I've got 15+ years under my belt teaching at the graduate level (I have a doctorate). I've been in non-tenure track faculty jobs, tenure track, and now I'm tenured.

Give me a break. I love it when people speak authoritatively about something they know nothing about.

[woolldog]

48. I've always called my college + level teachers "professor"

regardless of their technical title, except for the graduate student instructors that I had in college.

[Symarip]

45. Seriously. Is this going to keep you awake at night?

It'd be one thing if he mis-spoke, er, I mean lied, I mean... Dammit, where's Sinbad?

[moc]

35. You have got to be kidding me (I'm a professor)

Do you have any idea how stupid you look posting this kind of bullshit?

Yes, lecturers are referred to as "professor" by their students. It's not that much of a difference.

This is such bullshit.

[bluedawg12]

43. His title was: "senior lecturer" . What students called him and what

his formal academic status was, makes a difference to the University, it's credentialing and I would venture to say students who pay tuition.

When a lecture is given by a Professor and when it is given by a "senior lecturer" is a distinction that that reflects academic ranking and merit.

If Sen. Obama attained the title of Professor, then, he should be accorded that honor, otherwise, he is what the citation states:
"senior lecturer."

[moc]

52. Bullshit. Again, what are YOUR credentials that qualify you to make such proclamations?

You didn't answer my question. Are you an academic? Do you have any *first hand* experience dealing with titles as an academic? I do - 15 YEARS of experience, and your proclamation is unmitigated bullshit.

[EFerrari]

57. No kidding, moc. n/t

[boppers]

47. Enter Stage Right.

Enter Stage Right.

What part of that article's propaganda source is not obvious?

Is it the "Rock and Roll Conservative" blog?

The cafe press site touting it as "a journal of modern conservatism"?

Seriously now.

[EFerrari]

54. Nobody outside the school really gets these distinctions.

That's not misremembering, When you're an instructor, even your own students call you "professor" no matter how many times you correct them.

Get a life.