Dowd (NYT): Hillary or Nobody

[TeamJordan23]

Hillary or Nobody?

By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: March 26, 2008

Even some Clinton loyalists are wondering aloud if the win-at-all-costs strategy of Hillary and Bill — which continued Tuesday when Hillary tried to drag Rev. Wright back into the spotlight — is designed to rough up Obama so badly and leave the party so riven that Obama will lose in November to John McCain.

If McCain only served one term, Hillary would have one last shot. On Election Day in 2012, she’d be 65.

Why else would Hillary suggest that McCain would be a better commander in chief than Obama, and why else would Bill imply that Obama was less patriotic — and attended by more static — than McCain?

Why else would Phil Singer, a Hillary spokesman, say in a conference call with reporters on Tuesday that Obama was trying to disenfranchise the voters of Florida and Michigan. “When it comes to voting, Senator Obama has turned the audacity of hope into the audacity of nope,” he said, adding, “There’s a basic reality here, which is we could have avoided the entire George W. Bush presidency if we had counted votes in Florida.” So is Singer making the case that Obama is as anti-democratic as W. was when he snatched Florida from Al Gore?

Some top Democrats are increasingly worried that the Clintons’ divide-and-conquer strategy is nihilistic: Hillary or no democrat.

(Or, as one Democrat described it to ABC’s Jake Tapper: Hillary is going for “the Tonya Harding option” — if she can’t get the gold, kneecap her rival.)

After all, the Clintons think of themselves as The Democratic Party. When Bill and Dick Morris triangulated during the first term, it was what was best for Bill, not the party. In 1996, when Bill turned the White House into Motel 1600 for fund-raisers, it was more about his re-election than the re-elections of his fellow Democrats in Congress; in 2000, the White House focused its energies more on Hillary’s Senate win than Al Gore’s presidential run.

And even Clinton supporters know that Bill does not want to be replaced as the first black president, especially by a black president with enough magic to possibly eclipse him in the history books.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/opinion/26dowd.html?hp

[FrenchieCat]

1. Tonya Harding = Hillary Clinton.........

That will be for the history books.

[TeamJordan23]

3. I just don't get why the Superdelegates are letting her destroy the party. nm

[dkf]

4. She scares them...

[FrenchieCat]

7. Cause many are wearing their Pink TuTus.......

as usual.

[MaraJade]

37. Anyone that has any knowledge of figure skating (and I do), knows that. . .

skaters DON'T wear Tutu's! And Pink is a color that hardly ever shows up in competition because
it "disappears" into the ice.

What do I mean by all of this?

I mean simply that the "Harding" analogy is utter garbage.

[revolve]

42. Hillary is trying to kneecap Obama so the analogy is correct

The fact that skaters don't wear pink tutus has nothing to do with the argument

[Carolina]

62. pink tutus is a pejorative designation for wimpy Dems

who have gone along to get along, often with Bush. Ironically, it was coined by Bartcop, an unwavering Hill supporter.

It has nothing to do with Tonya Harding. However, HRC is showing Tonya-like behavior and SDs are pink tutus

Think before you flame!

[totodeinhere]

9. Some of them might still be afraid of the Clintons.

[loveangelc]

14. why? i wouldnt be....

[ForeignSpectator]

58. Well, you have Pooches to protect you, they don't...

:shrug:

[XemaSab]

78. She knows where ALL the bodies are buried.

:scared:

[Yes We Did]

5. I don't like that analogy.

It makes Obama=Kerrigan... who lost in the end.

BAD analogy.

[ClassWarrior]

11. No, it just speaks to Clinton's character.

NGU.

[JVS]

35. Yeah, but do you remember Harding's performance at the big show?

Ohhh it was classic.

[XemaSab]

80. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI7qBAfWYP4

[Carolina]

63. actually it may be spot on

Tonya was disgraced and Nancy came in second (silver medalist).

Hillary is doing her damnedest to win at all costs, disgracing herself (more) and hurting the party, by possibly causing a second place finish (loss) in the race to the WH for the likely nominee.

[splat]

36. Major swiftboating, textbook example

[crankychatter]

2. Let's hope Harry Reid knows something we don't know

this shit is heinous

who are THEY to lecture ANYONE about loyalty?

[anamandujano]

28. That would be a first.

[enid602]

6. true

“When it comes to voting, Senator Obama has turned the audacity of hope into the audacity of nope,” he said, adding, “There’s a basic reality here, which is we could have avoided the entire George W. Bush presidency if we had counted votes in Florida.” True.

[ossman]

8. I just said this same thing to my wife tonite. Its true. They're working for a McCain 4 yrs.

[Eurobabe]

10. I don't usually care for MoDo, but I think she is correct on this one. n/t

[usregimechange]

12. Not someone I want as President

[Cha]

13. The clintons have a long history of this me me me

shit..and it's time to put the kibosh on their latest plans for themselves and only themselves.

Who knew hilary was such an empty pantsuit? I knew she void of conscience but only time could teach us how void.

[wileedog]

15. I don't believe the 2012 theory

I really think she believes she can convince the SDs and even pledged delegates to Obama that she is more 'electable'.

This was her election for so long - years even - and I'm not sure it has even sunk in with her that she has already lost it.

[totodeinhere]

16. Yes, if she can still win it this time that's great,

but their fall back plan is to run again in 2012.

[roguevalley]

44. IF McCain uses her shit during the ge and obama loses,

which I don't see happening, McCain is such an asshole, then the blame will fall on her. What small wit makes her think that anyone will even speak to her let alone vote for her in 2012? We will be on our tenth war and won't even have food to feed the kids. Fuck this. If she does this, she's fucking over.

[Johnny__Motown]

19. I do believe it, her actions changed radically after losing Wisconsin. I think that drove home her

inability to win this time around

[totodeinhere]

27. But there is one thing wrong with that plan.

If McCain gets in there he will be hard to dislodge in 2012, no matter how much he fucks things up. It's hard to defeat an incumbent president. Bush proved that in 2004 when even though he was one of the worst presidents in history he still got reelected (or he stole it again.) In fact, as you know, only three elected incumbent presidents have been defeated for reelection in the last 100 years (Hoover, Carter, and Bush Sr.)

And yes, McCain will be very old in 2012 but you better believe they would run him again even if they have to have him connected to a life support machine.)

[PM7nj]

29. But that makes sense

and has we have seen again and again, Team Hillary does not really care about what is true, reasonable, and staring them in the face.

[PM7nj]

20. I didn't either...

but today when she desperately threw out that Wright smear, it became a lot more believable.

[Cha]

23. I believe anything low down and dirty of hilary

..if it was her's for so long..she should have went about it in an honest way but, that's not her way.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Round Two: HRC is going on Greta Van Sustren's "On the Record" tonight

When she makes that lame statement, "You can't choose your family but you can choose your pastor" it means that she's also throwing the entire Trinity Church of Christ under the bus even though the man retired last year? But that won't be mentioned by Hill and Greta. They will, instead, use the "IMUS firing" as a apt analogy (:wtf:) and DESTROY all three (Obama, Rev. Wright and Trinity Church of Christ).

If the Superdelegates FAIL to act as a block in the near future, there may not be an Democratic Party AT ALL especially if Hill and Bill are successful at cheating/smearing their way to The Democratic Nomination. :nuke:

Does FAMILY mean that due to her relationship with "The President" that she is, by default, co-President? Does FAMILY mean that she can allow her's and Bill's brothers to be paid over $400,000 by people whom her husband shamelessly decided to Pardon?

[Cha]

25. Next...the m$$$m needs to bring out the Pastor that hilary

chooses. I hear he's a real winner.

[usregimechange]

17. This thread will be on top of the greatest page in an hour!

[usregimechange]

24. 50 minutes to go...

[usregimechange]

33. 40 minutes to go...

[usregimechange]

21. K and R this thread!!!

[Voice for Peace]

55. OK, OK! K&R!

[usregimechange]

22. Edwards or Gore need to open the superdelegate floodgate, end this thing for the good of the party

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MaraJade]

40. Sexist and stupid. . .

My daughter is a figure skater and I RESENTED the stupid Tutu comments. . .

I am quitting this forum for a few weeks. My blood pressure is way too high.

Peace to all. I'm outta here. Got work to do for my Figure Skating Club. . .

[PretzelzRule]

48. Don't forget to post a Maya Angelou poem on your way out

n/t

[TomBall Democrat]

72. That's too funny!

Thanks for making me LAUGH OUT LOUDLY!!!

[Carolina]

66. Go to Bartcop and get off your high horse!

Pink tutus is a pejorative term for Wimpocrats who have gone along to get along, often with Bush. It was coined by Bartcop, an unwavering Hill supporter.

It has nothing to do with Tonya Harding and fucking figure skating. It actually refers to ballerinas! However, HRC is showing Tonya-like behavior and SDs are pink tutus.

Think before you get your knickers in a knot!

[roguevalley]

45. ah, gimflor. I was waiting for you. Gimflor joined just

today and hid their profile. Did you know this troll minored in Logic? Isn't that special. Watch the thread. Insults and lies. Nothing more. Needs to go back to freeperland.

[Kurovski]

49. Bill Clinton is not a freeper!

[Life Long Dem]

30. I think Obama has a chance of catching and maybe passing Hillary in PA.

[MaraJade]

38. Hell NO!

If Obama wins here, election fraud has clearly taken place. This is Hillary country.

[Carolina]

67. thought you were leaving and BTW

Pink tutus is a pejorative term for Wimpocrats who have gone along to get along, often with Bush. It was coined by Bartcop, an unwavering Hill supporter.

It has nothing to do with Tonya Harding or fucking figure skating. It actually refers to ballerinas! However, Shrillary Hypocrillary is showing Tonya-like behavior and SDs are pink tutus.

[Raine]

31. The Super Delegates need to step in

and put an end to this disaster before the party is damaged beyond repair with no hope of ever fixing it. :-(

[TeamJordan23]

32. Agree....they need to grow some backbones and end this. nm

[MaraJade]

39. I hope they do end it soon. . .

because if it's Obama, we Hillary people can plan our vacations for election day.

[roguevalley]

46. I would think you hillary people would be registering your

kids for the draft.

[Carolina]

68. thought you were leaving and BTW

Pink tutus is a pejorative term for Wimpocrats who have gone along to get along, often with Bush. It was coined by Bartcop, an unwavering Hill supporter.

It has nothing to do with Tonya Harding or fucking figure skating. It actually refers to ballerinas! However, Shrillary Hypocrillary is showing Tonya-like behavior and SDs are pink tutus.

[usregimechange]

34. kick!

[depakid]

41. Remind me why anyone should waste time reading Maureen Dowd

[my3boyz]

43. Too late Bill

African Americans already see you for the @sshole that you are!

[usregimechange]

47. kick

[quantass]

50. K&R

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. Obama has run a two track campaign from the start

Track One has been to promote himself as a positive new leader for the 21st Century. Track Two has been to destroy both Bill and Hillary Clinton, locking them into the dungeon called "divisive politics of the past".

There was no way Obama could win the nomination without seeking to destroy both Bill and Hillary Clinton, given the advantages she had over him at the start of this campaign. It was clear by mid Summer that a positive campaign would not be enough all by itself.

It is at least equally true to Dowd's assertion that the only way Obama could win was to destroy Clinton(s), if one needs to view this race with that type of perspective. I never get why Obama is viewed as a delicate flower who has to be protected until we send him out onto the Colleseum floor to battle the Republican Lions, but it has been perfectly fine all year to tear into that tough old battle axe broad Hillary Clinton with non stop vile accusations. What could possibly be more personally destructive than embracing and promoting a meme that Hillary Clinton will do or say absolutely anything to get power? Or that she and Bill belittle African Americans? Or that Hillary Clinton wants to throw the election to John McCain, or that she is a "monster" and Bill Clinton is Joe McCarthy ressurected?

What could be a more avert attempt to destroy a Democratic politician than a concerted effort to ressurect, breath new life into, and then aggressively employ every Right Wing anti-Clinton talking point that has ever been used to bring down the elected government of the United States and smear the one Democratic interlude in decades of otherwise uninterupted Republican executive branch rule?

[immoderate]

56. Delusional

Obama did all that? Imagine what the Republicans could do to her.

--IMM

[Scriptor Ignotus]

60. i'm curious

when you say "destroy the Clintons" do you mean "beat Hillary and win the nomination himself"? Because if I translate "destroy" that way, your post makes more sense.

Obama has run a tough, well organized campaign. By every metric, more so than Hillary. Give credit where credit is due.

[NashVegas]

61. No, He Means 'Destroy the Clintons'

Obama had to work to take Big Dog out of the equation; to have the last elected Dem president since 1976 visibly stumping for Hillary is both a blessing AND a curse. Blessing because of who he is, curse because as a former president, there was no way Bill Clinton was going to go personally negative on the stump unless he was forced to. It just wouldn't be perceived as a fair fight, and it would be poor form on Bill's part. Once Obama's strategy became visible to those who were watching closely, Bill commented on it - and got clobbered.

[AX10]

65. And that makes Obama unacceptable to me.

He pretends to be one thing while he has his surrogates playing politics against his opponents.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

77. his surrogates play politics?

he's running for President jack. What should they be playing?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

76. so which words exactly did Obama force Bill to say?

Bill messed up Hillary's campaign himself by his own words and his own actions. Obama had nothing to do with it.

To clarify, Bill didn't completely derail her campaign or anything, but he didn't help.

[Carolina]

69. oh puhleeze, you doth project too much

"Track Two has been to destroy both Bill and Hillary Clinton, locking them into the dungeon called "divisive politics of the past"."

What utter bullshit. It's Hypocrillary, the LOSER, who had to resort to the kitchen sink sewage which has come back to bite her fat ass.

Hillbots are truly delusional spinners just like their feckless leader.

[H2O Man]

52. Very good.

Nominated.

[DemzRock]

53. How dare Hillary run for office! n/t

[TeamJordan23]

54. kick. nm

[Araxen]

57. What scares me the most is

The Elder Dems are still with their heads in the clouds and keep proclaiming.."Everything will be alright in the end". They need to come back down to earth before we are totally shut out of the Whitehouse their year.

[knixphan]

59. The Superdels

are going to act.

Soon.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. why is it so important for Hillary to win?

why would we need her when we have Gore for later

[UALRBSofL]

70. In all honesty I don't think the Clintons are trying to destroy the party

But I do know Maureen Dowd has never written anything positive about the Clintons that I know of. She has always written hit pieces about them.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

71. The Clintons held back on support for Kerry in '04 for the same reason. n/t

[Eric J in MN]

73. Bill Clinton didn't imply that Obama was unpatriotic.

He spoke of two patriotic Americans in the general the same as he did in 2004 at the Democratic National Convention.

Bill Clinton wasn't questioning Ralph Nader's patriotism in 2004, and he wasn't questioning Obama's patriotism on Friday.

I am writing this as an Obama supporter who heard Bill Clinton speak in person a couple of years ago and recognized the theme from his stump speech.

[Mme. Defarge]

74. At this point

she has blown any shot at 2012. This is about not being able to handle rejection taken to a pathological level.

[D23MIURG23]

75. She's not thinking clearly anymore.

At this point her strategy is one part wishful thinking about electoral prospects, two parts desparate grasping at control of a party slipping away from DLC/Clinton town, and four parts irrational compulsion.

She is fighting like someone who has lost all perspective because she has. She is looking desparate and beaten, and has set herself up to be blamed for a democratic loss should it occur. It's ill advised to fight when you are stuck in quick sand because it leads to exhaustion and drowning.

[DrFunkenstein]

79. Obama Called Un-Democratic As Clinton Tries to Get Pledged Delegates to Switch

At the convention in order to convince enough superdelegates to go against the will of the voters they represent in a bloody civil war that would be decided behind closed doors.

Did I mention she opposed caucuses in Michigan and Florida?