Ministers Speak Out Against Clinton Politicizing Religion

[slinkerwink]

Open Letter To Senator Clinton From Diverse Group of Prominent Religious Leaders

Dear Senator Clinton:

We write to you as people of faith from many backgrounds who love our great country and are concerned with the present tenor of your campaign.

Today, you took a new and disquieting step when you decided that it would be to your political benefit to wade into the waters of the issues surrounding Senator Barack Obama and his former pastor. This crosses the line and brings us full force into the zone of the politics of personal destruction.

There are those among us who support Rev. Wright and believe his comments were deeply misconstrued. There are others among us who reject his words outright, even in context.

But across these lines, we stand together, White and Black, Protestant and Catholic, Christian and Jew.

No candidate should use religion as a tool to divide the American people, as you have done today. By engaging in the politics of personal destruction your campaign runs the risk of turning people off from participating in the democratic process - and that hurts us all. We need this race to be about the values that are important to the American people.

We need to end the war and promote peace around the globe. America needs real leadership to address the housing crisis, a fighter who will help lift up our economy, and we need a leader in the White House who will tackle issues surrounding world wide climate change.

We urge you to join the debates over those issues instead of using valuable time making personal attacks that diminish both our democracy and our moral standing.

Sincerely,

Dr. T. DeWitt Smith, President

Progressive National Baptist Convention*

Dr. Michael Battle, President

Interdenominational Theological Seminary

Sr. Jamie T. Phelps, O.P., Ph.D.

New Orleans, LA

Rev. Dr. Stephen John Thurston, President

National Baptist Convention of America

The Rev. Milton Cole

West Des Moines, IA

Rabbi Moshe Weisblum, Ph.D.

Annapolis, MD

The Rev. Chuck Currie

Portland, OR

Rabbi Abie Ingber

Cincinnati, OH

Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery

Atlanta, GA

http://chuckcurrie.blogs.com/chuck_currie/2008/03/diverse-group-o.html

[ellacott]

1. Excellent

I hope this gets attention in the media.

[slinkerwink]

15. everyone should circulate this

[EFerrari]

2. Good!

[meow mix]

3. K&R

O8)

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

4. recommended. Also, What Church DOES Hillary attend?

It seems that there isn't much information about whatever church Hillary attends.

There's this:

Since 1993, Mrs. Clinton is a member of the same church John Ashcroft, Sen. Santorum, and Sen. Brownbeck attend: The Fellowship. After her election to NY Senate, she was brought into the 'elite circle'.

Please read this article: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[theboss]

9. A Pentacostal, two Catholics, and a Baptist attend the same church?

Color me intrigued.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

17. its not a real church

its some sort of group. neocons and right wingers.

Tie religion and patriotism together.

[Cheap_Trick]

25. she, like bush is in the church of the almighty dollar n/t

[myrna minx]

5. Good!

:applause:

[SoxFan]

6. K&R

It's heartening to see people of a wide array of faith traditions-Catholic, Protestant, Jewish-standing up against the foul garbage that the Clinton camp is pushing.

[babylonsister]

7. Ouchie. Rec'd. nt

[Ellipsis]

8. Ouch.

[H2O Man]

10. Nominated n/t

[BeyondGeography]

11. Take the hint, Hillary

These folks are doing you a favor.

[Oilwellian]

12. Who would have thought Hillary was a uniter?

People of all faiths unite against her destructive campaign.

[RiverStone]

13. BIG Kick!

Exactly what needed to be said.

Thanks for sharing slinkerwink :hi:

[ORDem]

14. K&R!

:kick:

[Voice for Peace]

16. Thank for posting this! Excellent letter, I am very glad they did this. nt

[City Lights]

18. Hope you're listening, Hill!

K&R

[redqueen]

19. "across these lines, we stand together"

K&R

[Scurrilous]

20. K & R

:thumbsup:

[VolcanoJen]

21. Rabbi Abie Ingber!!

Rabbi Ingber is one of the most respected religious leaders in Cincinnati! Very pleased to see that he has signed onto this meaningful statement.

A fun anecdote about Rabbi Ingber:

Rabbi Ingber hails from Montreal, Canada and has served as the Rabbi and executive director at Cincinnati's Hillel for over 30 years. An interesting fact about him is that while petitioning for Soviet Jewry back in the 70's, he found himself in the same hotel as John Lennon and Yoko Ono. He got this great idea to have John Lennon himself sign the petition. He marched through the crowd of crazed fans and told the security guards who he was and that he had a petition that John Lennon wanted to sign. After some time, he found himself in the famous bedroom where the famous 'sleep-in' occurred with John, Yoko, and various other members of The Beatles and their production crew. They were in the middle of recording the anthem of the Peace Movement 'Give Peace a Chance.' He spoke with John and Yoko and had them sign the petition as well as some of the other people in the room. Before leaving, John reached to the bedstand and handed Abie the plant that was sitting on it and told him to 'give it love.'

:-) :-) :-)

[slinkerwink]

23. kicking

[bunnies]

22. K&R. Too bad the media wont cover it. nt

[DearAbby]

65. Send it to all the Networks...

WE are the CHANGE...We have to push this. Get busy :D

[Beacool]

24. Hillary responds to one question and she's the one pushing this thing?

Please, why didn't these men of the cloth send their message to the media at large? One comment from Hillary and they are offended? Well, guess what? Plenty of Americans are more offended by Wright's sermons.

[EFerrari]

27. You don't know anything about his sermons.

You heard one clip out of context.

And Clinton's statement was scripted. It was not an off the cuff remark, as the New York Times Public Editor pointed out today.

[slinkerwink]

28. exactly

[Inuca]

30. Do you have a NYT link for this? n/t

[EFerrari]

31. Hoyt was on Washington Journal this morning.

He said it live on the air, not in the paper.

[Beacool]

54. How the heck do you know whether I listened or not to the whole sermon?

For your information, I did.

As for her comments, she talked about it twice. The first one in response to a question was not scripted. The second one she did read it from her notes. So what?

[slinkerwink]

59. it shows she's politicizing religion

[EFerrari]

62. I know you haven't listened to the whole sermon because

unless you bought it from Trinity, it isn't available. That would be a copyright enfringement.

If you have found a bootleg version, you need to report it.

There is a ten minute clip that shows the larger context and that totally debunks the Foxed Up clip.

It's really not all right to slander public servants for political purposes.

[Beacool]

67. I volunteer for the campaign.

Believe me, we have listened to the sermons. There are some others that are just as incendiary as the ones that the media keeps putting on the air.

[EFerrari]

68. So, you admit the Clinton campaign is trolling around

the sermons of one of the most dedicated social justice advocates in Chicago?

That's disgusting. Why don't you ask your organizer why Clinton turned to the anti Semite Graham or how she can belong to a cult of Christian elites and still call herself a Democrat?

She's lost this battle. The media busted her today and the Christian community is pissed at her.

Please continue to drag this man's name in the mud. Please.

[Beacool]

71. No one is trolling.

But the issue is out there and it wouldn't be fair to judge the man without listening to the whole sermon. Isn't that what you were suggesting I did in the first place? Besides, do you think that Axelrod and his gang don't do the same thing if it's something related to Hillary? That's politics, neither one is "trolling".

[EFerrari]

74. Had you listened or watched the whole sermon, it would be impossible

for you to miss the central message unless you happen to be brain dead. The man was preaching peace.

And yes, this is trolling. There is a difference between trolling and politics. Congratulations on conflating the two.

[Kool Kitty]

154. Exactly. This will be an election based on religion,

not issues. Just what this country has been clamoring for. Terrific. Because, really, who gives a shit about jobs and war and health care?

[grantcart]

85. really which sermons would those be?

[Barrymores Ghost]

104. Source, please. Thanks. n/t

[Bongo Prophet]

77. So what is your opinion on the use of psalms in his "9/11" sermon?

I found it one of the best interpretations I have heard, and very apt wrt our response to the attacks.
So few have the time and patience to listen to them, so it would be great to have a reasoned discussion on that one.

Also enjoyed the fact that Rev. Wright called Boll Clinton a good, smart friend in the "G-D America" sermon" - that was pretty nice of him.

I wish I could afford the dvds myself, so if you have a link for free access, please let me know!

thanks, Beacool.

[yardwork]

50. Did you read their letter? They state that some of them don't agree with Wright's statements.

They disapprove of Hillary Clinton making this a political issue by bringing it into her campaign. I agree with them.

This was the most serious mistake in a series of mistakes that Hillary's campaign has made in the past two months. It's time for her to concede the nomination to Barak Obama and stop campaigning.

[Beacool]

55. The most serious mistake?

You people really don't have a pulse on what the average folks are thinking. People are still talking about it on a daily basis, it has not gone away. Obama can't make it go away just by delivering another one of his "inspirational" speeches and the media (who is enamored of this guy) can't make it go away either.

That's the reality.

[yardwork]

58. People are going to be talking about how Hillary lied about being under sniper fire, too.

In the past two days, Hillary has managed to tick off two major constituencies - the military and the clergy. Nice going. She can't catch up to Obama. She is going to have to concede. Sooner would be better than later, unless you are hoping for a McCain presidency.

[Barrymores Ghost]

107. Trust me, people like this WOULD root for McCain...

...over Obama, because they figure the former would be easier to beat in 2012 than the latter.

Wow. Must suck having placed all of one's hopes and dreams into a candidate, only to see her turn out to be no different or better than the other self-possessed corporatist whores on Pennsylvania Avenue.

[Barrymores Ghost]

105. The reality, my dear friend, is that this "flap" is hurting Hillary Clinton far more...

...than it's hurting Barack Obama.

And there's good reason.

Obama heard Rev. Wright's incendiary remarks and gave a reasoned response and a call to action in what will go down as the first great political speech of the 21st Century.

(Ouch. That hurts, don't it?)

Hillary "The First Bosnian Commando" Clinton heard the remarks and first tried to avoid bringing up the fact that she and Bill had close ties to Wright themselves. Then, when it came out, she tried to use them as cheap political shots, and then kept using them even after the Vegas line said people had stopped listening.

Now, people are listening to her, all right -- only they are not liking what they are hearing...hence, ergo, thusly, she is taking a hit in the polls.

Guess that just kind of makes Hillary a little slow on the uptake, in addition to being a fabulous liar and resume-padder.

[ekwhite]

124. Well, color me corrected Bea

I guess I just don't know any "average people." I just work in a factory and grew up in a poor white neighborhood. I drive a 1998 Honda and have a retired firefighter on one side of me, and a union electrician on the other side. I should know more "average people" like Bill and Hillary, and the crowd they run around with.

[Kokonoe]

151. I saw it in 2000. The liars that lie are reaching for straws.

Not this time. Not this time. Go back and straighten them out. It will be for your own good.

[Laurab]

91. Oh, indeed they are, and HRC wants plenty more to be.

But most of "those Americans" wouldn't vote for a dem, anyway - the ones that get their news from O'Really and Hannity.

It was sent to Hillary because she's continuing to do what she's done throughout her campaign - she's doing the repukes work for them. She wants this to stay out there, and you work for her campaign, have listened to the tapes and DENY it? Do they have listening parties?

Keep up the good work - John McCain appreciates it.

[sudopod]

119. Plenty of Americans are offended that the south didn't win the Civil War

They're still wrong.

[KittyWampus]

26. Glad this is happening. I'd like to see larger groups of clergy speak out about this.

[Inuca]

29. Beautiful and stinging letter n/t

[uponit7771]

32. Big Kick, what she did yesterday is ....isn't good

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. I hope the Obama campaign is aware of this letter...it needs to be

widely circulated. When the Repukes accused the Clintons of "Scorched Earth Politics", and "The Politics of Personal Destruction" I wasn't paying attention. But it seems that everything we were told about them by our enemies, is actually true. Who knew?

[Hamlette]

34. wow, seems I wasn't the only one disgusted by what she said

I've not been pissed off by what the Clintons have said this season. I little sorry Bill said some things I didn't like but even the McCain comment didn't bug me. It's politics.

But I was upset by what Hillary said about Wright. To me it is beyond the pale. (And caused her to lose her last supporter in my extended family).

[slinkerwink]

35. wow

[Fyddlestyx]

36. K & R

[billbuckhead]

37. Who in America would ever politicize religion?

What a joke.

[Diane R]

38. Great letter.....it still won't effect her. She's narcisstic and tone-deaf.

[Irishonly]

39. Religion Has No Place In Politics

Have any of the religious leaders ever come out against Bush for putting religion in politics?

[slinkerwink]

41. exactly

[wowimthere]

40. K&R Tired of her political calculations

Thank you for stating what should have been very, very obvious.

Here we go again as with her Iraq war vote, she uses religion and race for her own political expedience. Now that she's been caught lying she wants to change the subject. NOT THIS TIME.

She looks like Bush. No more.

[DURHAM D]

42. Organized religion has become nothing more than performance art. eom

On second thought - that is what it has always been.

[Lilith Velkor]

69. So has politics.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

43. kicked and recccccccccccccccccc'd

[indimuse]

44. I"VE HAD IT!!!!!!

Rev F*cking Wright verbally assaulted Hillary and Bill Clinton in a CHURCH!!! Hillary has every WRIGHT to defend herself and say what the F*ck she wants at this point! Rev Wright IS A RACIST SEXIST FRAUD!! Simple!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

47. Hmmm... another candidate for ignore.

Time for you to move on. Your hatred is not healthy.

[yardwork]

51. Now there's an approach that will really win people over.

:eyes:

[Beacool]

57. Save your breath, they don't want to hear it.

It appears that they think that racism only flows one way. Funny how nobody can disagree with anything Obama says or does that on this board his supporters put you on "ignore".

I have absolutely no one on ignore, what's the point of posting on a board if they can't accept opposing views? Might as well start a fan club.

[indimuse]

75. I know.

No ignores here either. I had a little chat with a few yesterday about that lame "Let It Sink" cop out.

[Barrymores Ghost]

109. That was a "point of view?"

Where I grew up, it was called a hysterical outburst. Some may call it a brief psychotic rant.

[easy_b94]

60. Come down!!!! everything will be ok once Obama gets into office :)

[indimuse]

76. aren't you sweeeeet.

:)

[Barrymores Ghost]

108. Can any one say "Completely UNHINGED?"

Wow.

Hope you've got good meds.

Jeebus Cristo con Carne.

:eyes:

[ekwhite]

127. Posting in all caps doesn't make your assertions true

I would judge them as patently false. I object to verbal abuse of Rev. Wright on this forum, and your excessive use of profanity. Calling a man who has a distinguished career, including multiple degrees, commendations from President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was invited to the Clinton White House, and who has consistently stood for progressive causes should not be abused in this manner.

You are certainly not aware of the prophetic preaching tradition in the black church and the southern white churches. In fact, in his now infamous GD America sermon, he complimented Bill and Hillary Clinton - then he said, 'but governments change,' and went on to detail the sins of the Bush administration.

We are all on edge after a contentious primary season. Because of that, I will put your comments down as over-reaction. Please consider that if you really support Senator Clinton, you will be campaigning FOR her, not against Obama. Invective will not convert Obama supporters to your cause.

[MethuenProgressive]

142. Superb post, Indimuse! Five stars! *****

:applause:

[stillcool]

149. like a pack of rabid dogs...

teeth bared, foaming at the mouth, eagerly anticipating the lunge for the throat. There is no knowledge involved, there is no reasoning. It is the pack mentality of blood-sport. These dogs will not be sated until every last drop of life blood is sucked from the body of a 72 year old human being they know nothing of. And, why? Because it will bring down a Presidential Candidate.

[olkaz]

45. Looks like some of the kitchen sink ricocheted

Whoops.

[TomBall Democrat]

93. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen! - Truman nt

[K Gardner]

46. Let's see.. how many GROUPS has Hillary pissed off, in total..

Small states, caucus states, young people, black people, Richardson fans, black churches, ALL churches, pastors, people who drink lattes and wear Birkenstocks.. maybe it'd be easier to list the groups still supporting Hillary..

errr....

[grantcart]

84. veterans who have been shot at

[Barrymores Ghost]

111. No, as one, I can say (unequivocally) that she's pissed me off, too.

:grr:

[Barrymores Ghost]

110. Still trying to think of one....

Oh yeah.

Reality-challenged, hysterical, militant Uber-Damen over 35 with cognitive dissonance, who suffer from selective hearing and reading abilities.

[stillcool]

48. This is a nightmare...

I can not believe that she is willing to play with this hot of a fire.

[jenmito]

49. K&R! Sending this to all news outlets.

Thanks! :hi:

[Deep13]

52. Did HC blame 9/11 on the wrath of God?

No, that was O's mentor, the snake oil salesman Mr. Wright. And religion has been inserting itself in public policy matters since forever, so tell them to cry me a river.

Sorry, but this is another hypocritical smear from those who start something and then blame HC for reacting to it. And frankly religion is fair game when that religion seeks to influence public policy. If a white politician was kissing Pat Robertson's ass, we would be all over him and rightly so. Wright and guys like him are con artists and nothing more. They prey on the insecurities of their flock (ba-a-a-ah) causing them to miss real opportunities for want of time, attention and money.

If these people are anything like Wright or Falwell or Robertson, then they can go fuck themselves.

[EFerrari]

63. Someone else content to smear Wright without knowing

what the f they're talking about.

[tedrick8]

135. What about Hillary's "cell"- CREEPY

Would you tell HRC's right wing religious fanatic friends to fuck themselves?

http://www.motherjones.com/cgi-bin/print_article.pl?url=http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[stillcool]

148. Wrath of God? No. Blowback...

Blowback
excerpted from the book
Blowback The Costs and Consequences of American Empire
by Chalmers Johnson
Henry Holt, 2000
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blowback_CJohnson/Blowback_BCJ.html

p8
The term "blowback," which officials of the Central Intelligence Agency first invented for their own internal use, is starting to circulate among students of international relations. It refers to the unintended consequences of policies that were kept secret from the American people. What the daily press reports as the malign acts of "terrorists" or "drug lords" or "rogue states" or "illegal arms merchants" often turn out to be blowback from earlier American operations.
p9
One man's terrorist is, of course, another man's freedom fighter, and what U.S. officials denounce as unprovoked terrorist attacks on its innocent citizens are often meant as retaliation for previous American imperial actions. Terrorists attack innocent and undefended American targets precisely because American soldiers and sailors firing cruise missiles from ships at sea or sitting in B-52 bombers at extremely high altitudes or supporting brutal and repressive regimes from Washington seem invulnerable. As members of the Defense Science Board wrote in a 1997 report to the undersecretary of defense for acquisition and technology, "Historical data show a strong correlation between U.S. involvement in international situations and an increase in terrorist attacks against the United States. In addition, the military asymmetry that denies nation states the ability to engage in overt attacks against the United States drives the use of transnational actors that is, terrorists from one country attacking in another."
The most direct and obvious form of blowback often occurs when the victims fight back after a secret American bombing, or a U.S.-sponsored campaign of state terrorism, or a CIA-engineered overthrow of a foreign political leader. All around the world today, it is possible to see the groundwork being laid for future forms of blowback.
------------------------------------------
Terrorism(by definition)strikes at the innocent in order to draw attention to the sins of the invulnerable. The innocent of the twenty-first century are going to harvest unexpected blowback disasters from the imperialist escapades of recent decades. Although most Americans may be largely ignorant of what was, and still is, being done in their names, all are likely to pay a steep price-individually and collectively-for their nation's continued efforts to dominate the global scene. Before the damage of heedless triumphalist acts and the triumphalist rhetoric and propaganda that goes with them becomes irreversible, it is important to open a new discussion of our global role during and after the Cold War...
------------------------
"Blowback" is shorthand for saying that a nation reaps what it sows, even if it does not fully know or understand what it has sown. Given its wealth and power, the United States will be a prime recipient in the foreseeable future of all of the more expectable forms of blowback, particularly terrorist attacks against Americans in and out of the armed forces anywhere on earth, including within the United States. But it is blowback in its larger aspect-the tangible costs of empire-that truly threatens it. Empires are costly operations, and they become more costly by the year. The hollowing out of American industry, for instance, is a form of blowback-an unintended negative consequence of American policy- even though it is seldom recognized as such. The growth of militarism in a once democratic society is another example of blowback. Empire is the problem. Even though the United States has a strong sense of invulnerability and substantial military and economic tools to make such a feeling credible, the fact of its imperial pretensions means that a crisis is inevitable. More imperialist projects simply generate more blowback. If we do not begin to solve problems in more prudent and modest ways, blowback will only become more intense.

The American Empire: 1992 to present
from the book
Killing Hope
by William Blum
2004 edition
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/American_Empire_KH2004.html

Following its bombing of Iraq in 1991, the United States wound up with military bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates.
Following its bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, the United States wound up with military bases in Kosovo, Albania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Hungary, Bosnia and Croatia.
Following its bombing of Afghanistan in 2001-2, the United States wound up with military bases in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, Yemen and Djibouti.
Following its bombing and invasion of Iraq in 2003, the United States wound up with Iraq.
This is not very subtle foreign policy. Certainly not covert. The men who run the American Empire are not easily embarrassed
And that is the way the empire grows-a base in every neighborhood, ready to be mobilized to put down any threat to imperial rule, real or imagined. Fifty-eight years after world War II ended, the United States still has major bases in Germany and Japan; fifty ears after the end of the Korean War, tens of thousands of American armed forces continue to be stationed in South Korea.
"America will have a continuing interest and presence in Central Asia of a kind that we could not have dreamed of before," US Secretary of State Colin Powell declared in February 2002. Later that year, the US Defense Department announced: "The United States Military is currently deployed to more locations then it has been throughout history."

A Brief History of U.S. Interventions: 1945 to the Present
by William Blum
Z magazine , June 1999
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html
The United States carried out extremely serious interventions into more than 70 nations in this period.

[anamandujano]

53. Rev Wright and Hannity need letters also, oh great men of the cloth.

What jerks.

[NJmaverick]

56. Once again Hillary crosses the line

It really shows that she uses the same moral compass Bush/Rove use.

[Mme. Defarge]

61. K&R! n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

64. the golden rule

something Hillary doesn't believe in

[Cha]

66. hilary stepped in quicksand in Bosnia and

she's wallowing around in the mud on religion.

[GeorgeGist]

70. When religion chooses to ignore ...

religious freedom, it becomes fair game for scrutiny.

[scottincaly]

72. Wow!

:)

[QC]

73. Yep, only preachers are allowed to politicize religion! n/t

[LWolf]

78. Do they also speak out against

ministers politicizing religion, politicking from the pulpit, and from their positions as spiritual leaders?

:rofl:

[lastliberalintexas]

156. Well, no because that helps grow their flocks and their bank accounts

[Megahurtz]

162. Only the Fundie Preachers

politicize Religion.

[hisownpetard]

79. K&R. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

80. I wouldn't put much support in these people.

If Wright is being misconstrued he did it to himself.

[RBInMaine]

81. GOOD !

[October]

82. Rev. Wright politicized religion -- in the pulpit

This "open" letter signees are doing the same.

[EFerrari]

88. So, you support politicans' right to intrude into churches?

Religion has always been political.

But the strength of our system has been that our government and our politicians don't intrude on worship.

Oh, well. Who needs that.

[lastliberalintexas]

157. If the churches are going to continue to butt their noses into the political ring

then fuck yeah I support political criticism levied back at them. It's time for churches to learn that they aren't a special class of citizen in this country.

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy." Marquis de Lafayette

[madrchsod]

83. not a good day for hillary

"stolen honor" and "valor theft" is going to haunt her in the following weeks and now this....

she`s in it till august even if it means she has to destroy the democratic party to fulfill her destiny

[Mooney]

86. Good.

Somebody's got to put their foot down about this bullshit.

[grantcart]

87. More Wright less War

[DutchLiberal]

89. Religion has been 'politicized' since at least the 1950's already!

And what about Obama? As if he's not invoking God every other minute.

[madrchsod]

94. need a way back machine---early 1800`s

and i can`t remember which presidential race it was! i do remember there was a big flap about the candidates religion...

[susankh4]

90. Nine signatories?

Is that the best they could do??

I don't see my denomination represented. Or the denomination of my parents. Or... many other denomination for that matter. What gives?

[Life Long Dem]

128. Hillary is your representation

[ekwhite]

129. Didn't notice that one of the nine signatories was Rev. Lowery?

One of the giants of the civil rights movement?

[NCarolinawoman]

92. The letter is disingenuous and contradictory, IMO.

By writing this letter, they themselves, are mixing politics and religion. They are criticizing one particular candidate for the way she answered a question put forth by the press. If my own minister signed on to such a letter criticizing either Barack or Hillary, I'd say, "Stay the heck out of it".

I don't mind it when my own minister speaks out on issues regarding what is in the the news--particularly on his feelings about the immorality of the war; but I don't want him making public judgments about ANY particular candidates. That would be for me, "crossing the line".

[SunsetDreams]

95. ouch! Uh oh, yet something else backfiring!

[mmonk]

96. Thanks.

I'm glad these persons came out and said it.

[depakid]

97. Welp -Obama's the one who "reached out" to fundies

culminating in the South Carolina fiasco.

So I don't see how his supporters can possibly complain....

[applegrove]

98. Ouch! Hillary made a bad mistake.

[Elidor]

99. Well said

And I heartily agree.

[susankh4]

100. Catholics are leaning Clinton

according to this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080326/ap_on_el_pr/pennsylvania_catholic_voters;_ylt=AjsHSQ12ruRwcoAPoo9lt5ph24cA

"

A recent Quinnipiac University poll showed her leading Obama 70-24 percent among Pennsylvania Catholics.

Clinton is a Methodist and Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ. Both candidates support abortion rights.

Analysts wonder whether Clinton is doing well with some Catholics because they also are part of her base, including Hispanics, blue-collar voters and older women. With traditional Democrats who are Catholic, the perception is that Clinton is more of a known quantity who paid her dues in the party.

David Leege, an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Notre Dame, contends that a strong woman leader who can make it in a man's world appeals to a generation of Catholic women who worked outside the home before most of their Protestant neighbors.

"For many of them, Hillary Rodham Clinton represents a hero," he said.

A woman candidate appeals to Dorothy Bouselli, 81, a Catholic who joined other senior citizens at the Dunmore Community Center outside of Scranton for a lunch of pierogis, the potato-filled, Eastern European-style dumplings.

"It's time for a woman to come in and clean house," Bouselli said.

[rateyes]

101. Joseph Lowery and Hillary Clinton shared the dais at

Coretta Scott King's funeral. Lowery and the Clintons have been good friends. I hope this letter hits home.

[RestoreGore]

102. Oh, but it's OK for ministers to talk politics and endorse candidates in their sermons?

Hypocrites.

[bliss_eternal]

116. Wow--someone's paying attention.

Good for you!
:applause:

...yes, hypocrite is an appropriate label here, from where I sit.

[RestoreGore]

144. Religious leaders need to stick to religion n/t

[WinkyDink]

103. Were these people asleep for 8 years?

[RestoreGore]

106. Good question n/t

[bliss_eternal]

115. Clearly they had to be....

...or perhaps it is "selective attention." ;)

[bliss_eternal]

112. I'll probably regret saying this...

...but I'm sincerely curious how many of these guys sent a similar letter to GW when he decided to politicize religion?

Seems to me, gw did this when he decided to announce his intent to change the Constitution so glbt couldn't marry. I seem to also recall his reason for doing this was based on his personal religious beliefs. Did these same religious leaders deem his doing so, inappropriate on any level? Did they send him a letter?

Or when they were telling their congregations who they should vote for in the last election--did they think about this:

Quote:
No candidate should use religion as a tool to divide the American people, as you have done today.

Also seems to me that this administration did this very thing when they initiated an IRS investigation of the southern California church and Rev. Beacon, because he wouldn't tell his parisioner's to vote for gw. (For more information on that one enter All Saints Church pasadena into a search engine. They also have information on it on their website).

So, what's with coming down on Senator Clinton? Oh wait. I know the answer to that. No one needs to answer me. ;)

[slinkerwink]

113. many progressive churches have spoken out against Bush policies

[bliss_eternal]

114. You are correct--I know of a few.

But not many.

My question was did these guys speak out against this administration's uber religious policies, and the way it divided the American people for the sake of politics? Or are they merely singling out Senator Clinton on this issue? And why?

Again, I know the answer. Something to think about. :)


edited for clarity.

[ekwhite]

131. Joseph Lowery certainly did

Joseph Lowery at Coretta Scott King's funeral:

We know now there were no weapons of mass destruction over there. But Coretta knew and we know that there are weapons of misdirection right down here. Millions without health insurance. Poverty abounds. For war billions more but no more for the poor!

[bliss_eternal]

133. Yes. He was also one of the few progressive ministers

to speak out against this administration. He's been particularly outspoken about the administration's anti-gay stance (and Lowery did so prior to Coretta Scott King's death).

[EFerrari]

120. I think this letter is more about what a strong network Rev Wright has

than anything else. I don't know about the congregation in SoCal although I remember that incident but, it looks like Rev. Wright has a lot of people in his corner.

[bliss_eternal]

122. hey you...

...always good to see you!
:hi:

[EFerrari]

123. Hiya~

:hi:

[bliss_eternal]

126. Info. for ya'...

excerpt:

In my view, All Saints exemplifies principled spiritual activism at its best — the kind we write about in the current issue of YES! "Spiritual Uprising." For decades, All Saints members have spoken out for democracy, peace, and social justice, no matter which administration was in power. They've reached out to other faiths in the Los Angeles Metropolitan area. Their "Sustainable World" economic justice program has carried out a series of dynamic conferences. And they've been a great partner of YES! magazine.

So why is the IRS threatening the non-profit status of All Saints? In October 2004, shortly before the elections, a guest pastor preached a sermon that suggested Jesus would not favor the war in Iraq. The IRS said pastor George Regas implicitly endorsed a presidential candidate. But Regas started his sermon by saying he was not telling the congregation how to vote. He did not endorse any candidate.

The IRS threat is not a left-right issue. It is a constitutional issue. According to the L.A. Times, Bob Edgars, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches views this as an attack on freedom of speech. Ted Haggard, head of the 30-million member National Association of Evangelicals said "It is a violation of the Constitution for the IRS to threaten that church."

taken from:
http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?id=1361

(link for All Saints Church also on this page). :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

117. Hooray for Michael Battle!!

I had the honor of knowing him at Duke. He is a remarkable person - one you just knew was going to go far in life.

I proudly add my name to that list, too.

Rev. Ruth
(sorry, but I'm not gonna give my last name. :))

[EFerrari]

125. This has been so horrendous, Rev!

I hope this letter goes some way to smoothing the waters.

[sudopod]

118. IN SOVIET RUSSIA

Thread recommends YOU.

[ekwhite]

121. What a letter

Even Joseph E. Lowery signed it - one of the great moral authorities in this country - a man who stood on the front lines with Martin Luther King. Hillary Clinton has indeed stepped over a line that no candidate should cross.

[Cha]

130. Amen...and a kick

for this important letter to hilary to cease and desist her Weapons of Distractions because she lied about the Bosnia trip.

Wright's getting punished by hilary because she LIED.

[TLM]

132. Exactly like I said....

The attacks on Obama via his pastor, will backfire with the religious dems and indis.


They will see it as an attack on his church, his faith, and they will be offended and take it personally.


The very mid-west values voters who Hillary desperately needs right now, she just alienated them and the churches that make up so much of the grass root level organization.


That on top of lie after lie on NAFTA Ireland, and the sniper attack...

She's done....

[ClayZ]

134. Thank You! K and R

[Kurovski]

136. K&R.

How long, oh Lord, how long?

Please make it stop. x(

[acmavm]

137. I notice there's a lot of people who badmouth religion and the religious

having anything to say or do with politics UNTIL it's something that goes against Clinton and then it's front page news.

I can't stand either one of 'em.

[LVjinx]

138. These people will never get the concept of Seperation of Church and State, will they?

They need to buzz off.

[IsItJustMe]

139. K & R

Is there no line Hillary will not cross in her unadulterated grab for power.

[madmom]

140. Sorry this just doesn't cut it,.. where the hell were these people when the

republicans were politicizing religion. They thought it was just find then because it was getting their "cause" some publicity, keep ALL religion out of politics!:grr: :banghead:

[MethuenProgressive]

141. Nine Obama donors write a letter scolding Obama's opponent?

:rofl:
Yeah, this is "news"...

[RestoreGore]

143. Did they send a letter to John McCain and Bush?

Oh wait, they don't hate them, just Hillary Clinton... :crazy: This looks very bogus to me and I'm not even supporting any of these candidates. So they got some of Rev. Wright's friends to scold someone in a "Christian" way. Whoopie. And to see it number one on the frontpage just tells me this entire site has jumped the shark. First of all, ministers shouldn't be giving POLITICAL SERMONS where they endorse a specific candidate or attack another. Rev. Wright and John McCain's "spiritual advisors" did just that, so where is the condemnation of them for doing it? Where is the condemnation of Bush for inserting religion into everything? Is it because these ministers think Obama the Messiah that it is also OK for him to do it as well which he does in his rallies? By their own logic then they shouldn't even have written this letter in the first place because they are doing exactly what they accuse her of doing. I really think having a non religious or atheist candidate is the way to go in the future. Then we could avoid all of this hypocritical bs. And I would think there are more pressing matters these "ministers" could be writing about. Unrest in Tibet under Chinese rule, Darfur, poverty ... Amazingly ridiculous.


http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/

I would love to hear what they then think of this site. Haven't seen one for Clinton.

[gal]

152. Volunteer?

How do you know these ministers aren't writing about other things? There are better things you and I could be doing right now as well. You say your not for Hillary but I can see your anti Obama in several threads now.

These ministers and others have every right to speak thier mind the same as you and I do, just because they are ministers does not mean they are not allowed in politics.

[RestoreGore]

153. They're not allowed in my politics

[Shae]

145. Poor Hillary

Everything she does seems to turn to shit.
I'm almost embarrassed for her.

[Skittles]

146. as opposed to a pastor slamming Hillary in church?

what a load of shit

[parkeradison]

147. Regarding "Ministers speak out"

Wouldn't it be great if we could get all politicians to agree to these standards advocated by these pastors?

[Booster]

150. This really is ridiculous. How many years have we had to put up

with religious figures butting into politics to the point of even telling their congregations who to vote for? Now their in a tizzy because someone called them on it. I just wish we really had separation of church and state like it was meant to be.

[lastliberalintexas]

155. Utter bullshit

As one who is enamored of neither campaign, I must say that my first problem with Obama started because of the very religiosity of his campaign. Obama has had no problem injecting religion into politics, and neither have the republicans for years. Where the fuck have these ministers been if Clinton was the first they felt compelled to publicly chastise?

God, I hate organized religion more every day.

[LisaM]

158. Maybe they should address this letter to Sean Hannity

since he is the one who found and played the Wright tape.

This is as RIDICULOUS as that 60 Minutes comment, when they pressed and pressed and pressed her regarding Obama's religion and then cheerfully twisted her answers out of context.

Maybe if some of these ministers didn't try to inject POLITICS into their sermons, this wouldn't be an issue.

I have never once heard a priest in any of the churches I've gone to over the years advocate one candidate and criticize another from the pulpit. I've heard them discuss social issues, but not candidates.

I once heard a priest ask us to pray for the Kennedy family when JFK Jr. died, and that's the closest I've ever heard.

[Megahurtz]

159. Yea! Good for them!

That letter was perfect and it needed to be said!

[VotesForWomen]

160. O.M.G. up is truly down in Baracko world. they know they've got a problem and are seeking

to make it 'politically incorrect' to talk about O's wacky religious beliefs. i'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind talking about nutcase rightwingers' religious beliefs.

[SoonerPride]

161. These people aren't for Obama. They against mixing religion and politics.

Period.

[walldude]

163. Really? What religion are the Clintons?

Because in HillaryWorld the only bad religion seems to be Obama's church. But if you'd like to talk about the candidates "wacko" religions please tell me what religion Clinton is and I'll make a list of wacko shit their religion has said and done.

Shall we talk Christianity and it's intolerance, it's crusades, it's insane notion that America is a "Christian nation, it's anti-abortion stance, it's barefoot and pregnant stance?

Or maybe you want to talk about the Catholics, and their child molesting priests, or their stands against homosexuality and birth control..

So tell me, which mythical bullshit do the Clintons subscribe to?

[Megahurtz]

164. Perfect comeback!

Let's see if there's an answer!