Note to Skinner et al

[Hutzpa]

Now that Dkos, Swing States and Open Left have openly decided to
support Obama based on their polling, is it not time for
Democratic Underground to adopt that same pattern.


Looks like the elderstatemen of the Dem party are not prepared
to 'take the bull by the horn' so, maybe if we in this community
starts the ball rolling the party will eventually follow suit.

Just my two cents....:think: :shrug:

[Bake]

1. That's about all it's worth.

Skinner & Co. have done an admirable job in maintaining neutrality during the primaries. Always have, always will. It promotes civil discourse (although you couldn't tell it from GD: P this season).

Skinner, don't do it until we actually HAVE a nominee with 2025 delegates. Please.

Bake

[October]

2. I agree with you

I like the fact that DU has maintained neutrality.

[helderheid]

26. ditto

[Yes We Did]

8. Wow, I have to agree with another one of you guys.

WTF is going on?

[Bake]

38. See? There's something Obama and Hillary supporters can agree on!

:woohoo:

Bake

[LSK]

14. why? is anything constructive coming out of all this?? or is it just outrage venting??

[Maven]

18. Yep.

:thumbsup:

[MonkeyFunk]

3. WAAAAHH!!!

People on the internet disagree with me! It's not fair!!! *stomps feet*

[jefferson_dem]

9. Waaaaaahhhh...

I'm so bitter...

If my candidate can't win the nomination, i'm going to make sure yours gets smeared so much he's damagaged goods come the General. Fuck the party. This is about ME and MINE!

<*stomps feet with sour grapes pucker*>

EDIT: That being said, I do appreciate the relative neutrality of the DU admins and mods, even as it become tougher to distinguish passionate Hillary dead-enders from freeper troll-types..

[Maddy McCall]

13. Yeah, I'd say you described yourself quite well.

They say admitting that you have a problem is the first step in getting help. Good for you.

[Maddy McCall]

10. I'd laugh my ass off if Skinner would reply, "OK, DU is hereby endorsing Hillary."

Would serve the OP right.

[Arkansas Granny]

39. Oh, Maddy, you have a wicked sense of humor.

:evilgrin:

[Guava Jelly]

4. I'd love to see less tolerance of slander toward both candidates

This is to far..We do have the ignore function.
When we have a winner things will change.

[Maddy McCall]

5. Democratic Underground never endorses a candidate.

Send Skinner a PM if it's so important to you.

[Adelante]

6. DU should not endorse anyone, IMHO

This is supposed to be a place for all Democrats (and other progressives), not just us Democrats. Not that Skinner ever listens to me :shrug:

[LWolf]

7. No.

There is no unanimous agreement within the DU community about Obama.

[greguganus]

11. I support Obama, but until a nominee is decided DU should remain neutral. n/t

[Recursion]

12. DU is a forum for progressives, not itself an advocacy site

I think any endorsement except of a Democrat over a Republican would be inappropriate.

[ulysses]

15. can't agree with this.

DU isn't DK et al. Not the right thing for this community.

[Yes We Did]

16. DU should stay neutral until we have a nominee.

This is not Kos or anywhere else. It is a discussion forum with user generated news for the most part.

No need to alienate anyone.

[VolcanoJen]

17. Pleasant thought, but I feel strongly that DU should maintain neutrality...

... until somebody gives a concession speech.

We can handle the back-and-forth. It'll be ok. :-)

[Hopemeister]

19. Its a good idea

This would prevent all the concern troll from advocating argument that tore us apart instead of bringing us together.

[golddigger]

32. hey Ding Dong, I donated money to this site. What have you and your

concerned trolling contributed?

[DearAbby]

20. This is one place

where people can come and discuss the campaign freely. DU should not endorse a candidate until it is official.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

21. I disagree

Until their is an announced presumptive candidate DU should not change a thing.

As far as endorsing anyone other than the presumptive nominee. They should never do that. Ever.

[ericgtr]

22. Agreed - We have voted and endorse Obama at my site

and I would've supported either candidate that my users chose. It's really no different there, still plenty of Hillary supporters, we just endorese Obama. I've also added his logo to my logo.

[golddigger]

80. Ah, one more member who hasn't donated to this site rears his ugly head.

[the other one]

23. Obamagroundunderpants.scam

What will you do when the "democratic" party "disenfranchises" you and picks either Clinton or Gore?

Wake up?

Nah, probably just stamp yer feet.

[Catherine Vincent]

24. You're two cents ain't worth anything.

No way that would happen.

[Zookeeper]

25. No! DU is supposed to support the Democratic candidate.

That candidate has not been decided.

It's a self-serving, kind of obnoxious suggestion.

[David Zephyr]

27. I'd hate for us to be the last progressive website to endorse Obama.

Don't forget that moveon.org has also endorsed Obama.

[golddigger]

36. Then I suggest you go back to Moveon.org!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

45. I don't think this website has ever endorsed anyone

other than the nominee of the Democratic Party.

[Chovexani]

58. Someone who's been here as long as you have ought to know better

DU never in all the years it's been around endorsed a candidate. The rule has always been to be neutral in the primaries and then to support the nominee once the nominee is decided.

Y'all crack me the fuck up. DU is not a revival tent for Obama, though y'all are trying your damnedest to turn it into one. Trying to destroy this board in the name of your candidate is not good form.

[ronnykmarshall]

28. Yeah go for it.

And refund my donations from the last two quarters and ban my ass!

[golddigger]

34. Yeah I say go for it too. Refund my money from the last fund drive

and ban my ass too. Screw this shit.

[RoyGBiv]

29. No, no, and hell no ...

One might think all hell has broken loose on DU this primary season, but it's nothing compared to the firestorm of protest should the site declare some sort of "official" support of a particular candidate before a presumptive nominee is clear. There are no positives to this idea, only negatives, because the website's endorsement means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, yet to the individuals who support one candidate over the other, it means everything that *their* candidate not be officially ostracized by a group decision on who to support.

It'll be bad enough once a nominee is declared by the party.

[Major Hogwash]

30. We should do it this year, nobody will be left here by 2012.

I'm not sure, but if McCain gets in, sites like DU will just be memories.

[mudesi]

31. I agree. The presumptive nominee is Obama.

Just because Clinton is hellbent on running again in 2012 doesn't change the fact that Obama has won the nomination.

[golddigger]

Maybe if you donate to this site your ranting might carry some weight.

[grasswire]

33. hell, why don't you just drive Obama to the WH gate...

...and tell them he's ready to take occupancy?

[GoldieAZ49]

46. and throw his skinny ass over the fence

may trigger the alarm system however

[stop the bleeding]

35. NO

it is not DU's position, we're a microcosm of the DEM party. Let's just let things play out.

btw I am an Obama supporter.

:beer:

[Arkansas Granny]

37. Can't agree with you on this. DU should remain neutral, IMO.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

40. My thoughts -

Something needs to happen here - once the primary dust settles we will be able to recognize trolls versus primary opponents. This place is a zoo! Sure hope something can happen soon so we can all begin working 100% for our nominee and not fighting Republicans dressed in our clothes!

[Hutzpa]

51. My suggestion was based

on other progressive site voting and endorsing, I think its time for us to move on
because its becoming clear that the Clinton's are prepared to destroy the party
and continue campaigning for McCain in the process.

My argument is based on this divisive approach that they(Clinton) seem to embark
on.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

57. Agreed nt

[Chovexani]

59. You want to shatter this board's historic neutrality stance

Because you are starry eyed over a candidate. And you call US divisive?

I'm not sure how many times people can tell you this until you LET IT SINK (lolz) This is not Obama Underground. This is Democratic Underground, a board for all Democrats. Not "Democrats Who Support the Democrat I Like Underground". Not "People Should Vote The Way I Want Them To Underground". Not "Demoborg Underground".

I am not saying this as a Clinton supporter, I'm saying this as someone who's been a member of this community almost from its inception. I would be as vehemently against it if someone suggested we endorse Clinton, or Kucinich, or whoever. This is the most asinine suggestion to come down these particular set of tubes in a long time. It goes against everything DU has ever stood for. This site has always been inclusive of Dems regardless of primary candidates, despite some of the nasty candidate wars we've had in the past. The very reason that rule of Primary Neutrality, Then Support the Nominee was finally set in stone because of the batshit insane Dean/Clark wars that nearly destroyed DU (and they don't hold a candle to the Obama/Clinton wars). It saved the board, IMO.

But it just goes to show that you and your ilk really don't give a shit about this community, you are here to shill for your candidate and damn the consequences, and project your issues onto Clinton supporters. The Obama supporters who disagree with you are people who actually give a shit about this website, and I commend them and respect them for taking a stand. Would you be for this if the shoe were on the other foot, everyone was for Hillary and someone said DU should endorse Hillary? Somehow I doubt that.

I thought the "inevitablity" talk was fucking obnoxious when the rabid Hillary people were doing it, and the rabid Obama people are not behaving any better despite claiming to be. Unity without dissent is not unity, it's fascism.

[Megahurtz]

41. Number 5!

:thumbsup:

[greyl]

61. OT: Here's a regulation sig pic for ya, Megahurtz.

[golddigger]

87. Ah, and yet another one who hasn't donated to this site rears it's ugly head.

[Hutzpa]

121. Get a life n/t

[golddigger]

124. Get a brain n/t

[Hutzpa]

127. Back at you spot

The mirror has two faces...well, YOU think it does.


:evilgrin:

[LaurenG]

42. Then we'd be just like the other sites. What fun would that be?

:hide:

[Hutzpa]

53. So I take it

you like all this division and anger thats become the make-up

of DU, why I'm I not surprise, yep! gas price, the economy

and the war in Iraq with 4004 American lives lost its all

fun to you....

[LaurenG]

86. I guess humor is lost on you

perhaps you should peak into your own world for the source of divisiveness.

When I've had enough, I don't come here, for some reason it seems more logical that trying to control a whole bunch of people on a website that I am a part of but don't own.

You could also put GD P on ignore.

[Hutzpa]

119. Wow! you have a funny

way of showing your sense of humor, must have obfuscate.

Hey! I misspoke get over it...

[LaurenG]

125. Wow you have a huge chip on your posting shoulder

perhaps you need to take a break. I am an Obama supporter.

Now I realize what the Clinton supporters feel like. You have no reason to attack me for disagreeing but you did because you thought I was the enemy, silly man.

[Hutzpa]

129. If you had

used this :sarcasm: then I wouldn't have mistaken your statement
to mean something else, you have to remember, these are trying
times for everyone, k

Now, lets go make him the President, cool...:thumbsup:

[jgraz]

43. OK, Skinner. Just endorse Obama RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!

:P

[electron_blue]

44. then change the name to Obamaunderground

[Eurobabe]

91. you forgot the .god

:rofl:

[cbayer]

47. Could not disagree more.

'nuf said.

[emilyg]

48. Not worth 2cents

[NastyRiffraff]

49. Absolutely not.

I realize that many Obama supporters want Hillary folks to go away, but this is the most blatant attempt I've seen.

Keep DU neutral until a nominee is recognized as such by the Democratic Party. BTW, the party will never "follow suit" based on what DU does or says.

[hedgehog]

50. So THAT'S what "net neutrality" means!

[Swamp Rat]

52. DU should maintain neutrality. n/t

[stevenleser]

54. I wrote in another thread that I already consider Obama the nominee. I think we are all just waiting

... for Clinton and her supporters to get over the denial.

Since Obama is already the nominee, anything Clinton and her supporters say negatively about him is equivalent to what Nader and the Naderites did to Gore in 2000. They are knocking down the nominee to help the Republicans. What this all has to do with the OP is that this is not a normal situation and I think as many Superdelegates, Democratic Leaning websites, etc. as possible need to come out and endorse Obama. Maybe if that happens enough it will get through the fog of denial at camp Clinton.

[Hutzpa]

56. Well

an anonymous SD already stated the type of game the Clinton's are playing
which is the 'Tonya Harding Kneecapping'

We just have to wait and see.....

[Chovexani]

60. "get over the denial"

Meaning, fuck the Democratic primary process and fall down to our knees to accept St. Barack as our lord and savior.

Not bloody likely. You and the other DU noobs who are trashing and burning this site to the ground to shill for your guy can kiss my black ass.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. Rock on, you...

:yourock:

[stevenleser]

67. I have that person on ignore... too bad... I am sure I missed more gems from the

in denial crowd.

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Well that's kind of childish to say...

At least I have always thought. Here's the thing, I don't particularly care for either of the candidates we have been presented with and I see more than enough idiocy on the parts of the supporters of both... There is nothing for anyone to be proud of. There's reality for you. No denial here. They both are far from what I want to see in office.

[golddigger]

83. Ah, and another one who hasn't donated to this site rears it's ugly head.

[stevenleser]

96. So, someone who hasnt donated cannot have an opinion, gotcha. Sounds like.... IGNORED!!!!!

Bye!

[golddigger]

105. Lmao...Ask me if I give a rats ass.

[MADem]

99. Rock on, INDEED!!!!!! Well said! NT

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. What about those of us who are not thrilled with either?

We should just go ahead and support a web site that we have given money to for their whims?? How disappointing this cycle is...and how disappointing the behavior of the radical supporters of both of these subpar candidates.

[stevenleser]

66. Well, that is even something else entirely, but if you read the items Skinner has pinned at the top

of GD P you will see that if you attack the Democratic nominee once he considers it official, it WILL result in you being tombstoned.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. And oh how I will cry... Here's the thing.. My money goes toward

local grassroots Dems. The ones that actually espouse and work for the very things that I do. If I get banned for saying I'm out of the national election. So be it. In fact, on that day, you feel free to alert. I won't hold my nose anymore. I will hold my hopes that, one day in the future, we will once again have a candidate to be proud of. These two fall far too short of that.

Newsflash: I was a mod during the 2004 Primaries and know full well the rules. Ask me how much that will change my opinion.

[Hutzpa]

72. Then you disappoint me

here is the thing, your candidate must have been lacking
something for them not to make it through the process, just
a reminder, primaries are there for every voters to see
and know who their candidates are, if there are those
who can't make it past the first hurdle then what chances
would they have to make through to the GE?

Unfortunately, I have to say thats plain ignorance you've just
displayed, for someone who claimed to have participated in the
last election. If this is the party for you there must be
something you like with these candidates, unless you're a
concern troll......:shrug:

[xmas74]

104. We're in the same boat.

The candidate I'm with now was definitely NOT my first choice but with the way people have acted "on the other side" (not just on this board but in my town. It's a college town.) I just don't know what to do. I've stated on here before that I don't know how my vote will go in the GE. I know it will not go for McCain but it might just go for a third party.

The difference is that I will vote, and volunteer, for Dems on the state and local level. I have always supported my local and state Dems and I've always worked hard for them while others appear only during a presidential election to volunteer.

According to a number of posters here on DU I cannot possibly be a Dem if I choose not to support the presidential candidate in the GE. (I've really thought for any number of years now that we needed a strong third party and this is the year that has me trying to decide where I really fit.) I've been informed that no one gives a "rat's ass" about local and state and that my state can sink, for all they care.

[golddigger]

79. Another member who hasn't donated to the site rears his ugly head.

[stevenleser]

95. So, someone who hasnt donated cannot have an opinion, gotcha. Sounds like.... IGNORED!!!!!

Bye!

[golddigger]

107. Ask me if I give a F@#K....lmao

[Hutzpa]

120. Looks like you have found

yourself a new job, star patrol officer somethings never change,
word of advice, stop spamming my thread with your star attack,
if you don't have any input go find yourself something to do,
thank you very much.

[Gore Edwards]

123. Naderites

did not do anything to Gore in 2000. The U.S. Supreme Court did it in a way that resembles your suggestion. Stop the recount, or,in your case the process.In other words, don't count every vote. Ask Pat Buchanan. Let us have an election, please.

[psychmommy]

55. not yet

it is way too fun to watch the hillary folks embarrass themselves day after day. we are already getting the word that it is almost over by our party leaders. let's tease the hillary folks a little while longer.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. The supporters of both candidates have nothing to be proud of these

days. Both candidates have more than their fair share of embarassing supporters.

[Jersey Devil]

64. Who the hell is this et al guy?

Is that Skinner's new partner?

[Hutzpa]

71. Sometimes the level

of ignorance can be surprising.....:wow:

[golddigger]

82. Yep, judging by your OP. The level of IGNORANCE can be surprising

:crazy: :eyes:

[Jersey Devil]

126. sometimes the lack of humor can be surprising

By the way, I believe I met et al at a cocktail party last year held by Skinner. He would make a delightful addition to the staff at DU.

[TheDonkey]

70. It's time for DU to accept Obama is the presumptive nominee and it's time to come together

why cater to Hillary who has endorsed McCain and is intent on driving the party into the ground.

[Hutzpa]

You know some

DUers disagrees with you, they figure we should continue this path
to destruction which will end up benefiting the Rethugs.

Some of the responses have been an eye opener, I won't say I'm
surprise though.

[Hutzpa]

74. .

self delete

[golddigger]

84. Wow, another who hasn't donated to this site rears it's ugly head.

[DeepModem Mom]

73. I support Obama, but if DU endorses either candidate, I am gone. I am here...

because of the stolen election, because of the foundation of this site. I joined, participate in and contribute to Democratic Underground. If this site is not for all Democrats, it's not for me.

[Hutzpa]

75. Depends what kind of

democrat are you,

The divisive one or the unity one...

thats a question most people should be asking themselves.

[DeepModem Mom]

78. I like to think I'm a unity one. I admire and respect both candidates...

and would happily vote for either. The acrimony among us here makes me sad.

[Maddy McCall]

76. .

:thumbsup:

[McCamy Taylor]

77. Can we change the name to ObamaUnderground to be truthful if we do this?

Seeing as the primary is still underway.

[Uben]

81. Ask Ali how that worked for MoveOn.org

They lost thousands of subscribers

[golddigger]

85. Yep! And looking at the posters who agree with the OP haven't any Stars!

I wonder if they will be donating if this happens to keep the site going?

[MADem]

101. I wonder how many of them have the same IP address? NT

[Hutzpa]

122. And majority of the post

disagreeing are known disruptor's of other threads.

[DemVet]

88. Wrong place.

n/t

[golddigger]

89. Hmm, I have counted five posters who have agreed with the OP who haven't donated to this site.

[polichick]

90. Who would care - other than DUers who confuse this place with reality?

[Apollo11]

93. You are right

It's not like CNN and MSNBC are going to interrupt their regular programming to bring their viewers a breaking news story about the outcome of the Democratic "We Love Obama" Underground dotcom online straw poll.

[MethuenProgressive]

92. Since this is a progressive site, we shouldn't endorse Obama or Clinton.

Neither are progressives.

[Alter Ego]

94. As an Obama supporter

I will say no.

I may not like it, other Obama supporters may not like it, but as long as Hillary Clinton is still running for President this website should not endorse anyone.

[BenDavid]

97. I am of the honest opinion that if this site goes too far left there will

be a mass exodus.All those sites mentioned are far left. I was under the assumption this was a middle of the road democratic site. I do not know how many years I have been a member and really means nothing but when the far left takes over and other progressives and conservative opinions are out numbered by far left opinions then soon the DU will say: My web page says "404 File Not Found" I do believe there is a liberal underground

[Medusa]

98. You're kidding right?

I love DU but I find it to be far more to the left than Daily Kos for example.

[Stephanie]

102. This site is for progressive Democrats.

You're welcome to find a site that suits your conservative views.

[MADem]

103. This place is WELL to the left of the party as a whole.

There are more than a few rather vociferous individuals here who will pile on if you're not sufficiently 'left' to suit them--moderates are looked at suspiciously, centrists are scorned, and conservative Dems routinely are accused of being Republicans. There's a lot of intolerance here, unfortunately. It would be sad, only the intolerant ones aren't really all that swift, so it makes it kind of funny, in a slip-on-a-banana-peel sort of way.

[Renew Deal]

100. I'd love to see it, but I don't think it will happen.

It's now clear that Hillary is the candidate of the right and should be shunned by Democrats. That said, I doubt DU would be so bold.

[hell-bent]

106. Pardon me Bleachers,

but were you not the one that actually paid for a star for the Repuke troll, Seventhson,back in the 2004 race for the Democratic nominee? He claimed he couldn't afford one. Then, on election night he laughingly confessed to being a Repuke troll. Am I wrong?

[LaurenG]

108. So there is something wrong with helping out a fellow DUer.

I think mocking someone for trying to be nice is about as low as you can get. So what if it ended up being a troll, DU got to keep the money and this poster did something nice out of the GOODNESS of his/her heart.

Find a real issue to take umbrage over. x(

[Renew Deal]

112. I'm more confused than anything.

That would have been at least 4 years ago. How would this person know if I did or didn't. I don't even know. I don't regret it one bit. DU got a little more money. God knows I won't be donating a star for the asshole that thought this up.

[Renew Deal]

110. I don't know.

Did I? I've paid for stars for several DUers in need. Are you Seventhson or a stalker?

[Renew Deal]

113. "Which DUers are too poor for a star? "

I found the possible thread in question and now I remember. I asked which DUers were too poor for a star. Seventhson volunteered himself. I remember thinking that he was an asshole and there was no way I'd give him a star. I didn't trust him. I'm having similar feelings about you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x701065

[hell-bent]

114. Yes, one must be careful about trolls on DU.

Here is that SOB Rethug that was out to discredit General Clark. I could see through him like a piece of clear glass. That bastard finally admitted that he was a Rethug on election night. He supposedly supported Dean at that time. Hmmm. seventhson (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-13-03 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. me
two kids. low paying job advocating for the poor every day.

No insurance and family medical issues that require a choice between medicine and birthday presents and groceries and getting out of debt.

I am not ashamed to say I would like a star and would redo the honor when I get ahead

[hell-bent]

115. Well, I remember he did get his star!

Thanks to you.....

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

109. Skinner already addressed this. Look up his thread.

DU stays open to both candidates until a nominee is chosen. After that, the nominee is supported. Discussion of primaries stays in GD-P.

[Buzz Clik]

111. The fact that DU is awash with pro-Clinton spammers is an indication that you have nothing to fear.

[goodgd_yall]

117. Are you nuts?

DU never does that.

[Hutzpa]

118. No, I'm no nuts

this is one way of ending the division and infighting that have
sipped into the party.

This has to stop and oh! by the way, theres always a first time.

[LynneSin]

128. I think Skinner is like many of us here - he's pro-democrat nominee

It's not for him to endorse someone right now and I find it strange that anyone would insist he and Du need to endorse someone right now.