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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:25 PM
Original message
Bredesen's idea about a superdelegate convention bothers me.
I watched him on CNN a few minutes ago, and he sounded perfectly sensible most of the way through the interview. But the idea bothers me, and I can't really put my finger on the whole reason. Just some thoughts.

I don't have the transcript yet, but at the end of the interview with Blitzer he seemed to say that both candidates still have an equal chance at the nomination. It was casually done, I will have to find the words from the interview.

That was odd to hear, because there is that pesky fact that Obama is leading in pledged delegates and vote count. He never indicated that.

Something else bothered me about his proposal. Much of it stems from an interview he gave to The Politico. Bredesen is a loyal member of the DLC, and he gave the keynote speech at their annual meeting last year.

I have no idea if that had anything to do with some of his comments in the Politico. I just don't know. But his interview today on CNN and his interview with The Politico show a lack of respect for the arm of the party that handles the primary and the convention. Why does that surprise me? I guess it does, though.

In the interview today he was asked by Blitzer how Governor Dean felt as chairman of the DNC. He said Dean was "lukewarm." Wrong. Stacie Paxton issued a statement from Dean the day Bredesen first mentioned it. The statement made it clear that he did not endorse the idea.

Since the DNC has traditionally made decisions controlling the primaries and convention...you would think more attention would be paid to those views.

Here is his interview with The Politico.

A Superdelegate Primary?

“Ninety days ago, everybody was talking in warm terms about both the candidates: ‘Isn’t it wonderful? Whoever’s president is going to be great,’” the governor said. “It has gotten vastly more polarized now, and that really concerns me.”

To Bredesen, an even-keeled political pragmatist, superdelegates are certain to ultimately decide the nominee, so it makes no sense for them to do it later rather than sooner.

“The bottom line here is that we have a problem, and I think we need to take it off autopilot and try to find some way of resolving it,” he said. “I don’t know any way that is not going to generate some hard feeling and some divisions in the party. But if we do it early, we’ve got a chance to patch them up.”


He's right about the tension and the anger, and he's right we have a problem. But since when has our party made up so many rules in the middle of primary season. I know the answer to that....never.

A party is not a national party unless it has rules. There have to be rules, or there is anarchy. You don't have to like the rules, but they have to be there. Here is what bothers me from the interview. There is a lack of the respect for the chairman. Would it have been there if Harold Ford were chair? If McAuliffe were still chair? I rather doubt it.

Bredesen gave a technocrat’s answer to why he made the proposal, calling himself “a problem solver" and saying it’s “common sense.” He came to Washington to meet with Democrats about the idea and has lobbied several fellow well-regarded Democratic governors — including Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Janet Napolitano of Arizona and Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas — about it over the phone.

The notion has found more favor among party activists outside Washington, he said, suggesting that Beltway Democrats and particularly Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean were not moving quick enough to recognize a growing problem.

“He certainly was not warm to it,” Bredesen said. “He was afraid that such a convocation … would present negative publicity for the party: the graybeards gathering in a back room to do it — smoke-filled room, all this kind of stuff. My retort to that is: You’re going to have that anyway. The superdelegates are going to decide the thing. Better to happen in June.”

Then the governor jabbed: “Howard Dean’s not the whole party. They call it a committee for a reason.”


First off, there are various opinions on the superdelegates stepping in this early. It could go either way.

Bredesen is right. They do call it a committee for a reason. The rules committee is in charge of making the rules. NOT Governor Bredesen.

Governor Dean had this to say on CNN the other day.

Howard Dean employs sarcasm more believably than political blarney, so when he flashed a thin smile on CNN last week and said, "This is the fun part of my job -- I get to bring these sides together," even a third-grader could figure out what the chairman of the Democratic National Committee meant.

Dr. Rorschach, National Journal


This is also apparent, a statement from the same article about the "party elders" setting him up for failure.

The carping from party veterans that Dean is to blame for the Florida and Michigan delegate disputes, or that he has been too passive or ineffectual to tease out a perfect compromise, exasperates aides and admirers who believe that Dean is being set up to be the fall guy, no matter what he does.


Yep, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't...

The presidential candidates went to him and begged him to keep an orderly primary. Guess what, he did do that. The disruptions by FL and MI, and now the disruption of the Clinton campaign using the issue....go beyond his authority to stop. They went beyond the rules, and they made it clear the sanctions did not matter.

Dean "did everything he could to try to stop this," says Moses Mercado, who was director of intergovernmental affairs for the DNC under Dean. "The reason we're here is that seven candidates came to him and said, 'You have to figure this out and give this calendar reliability. It would have been easier for him to say, 'Screw it; we'll give them their delegates.' But this was a big leadership step to kind of hold everybody together. Dean said, 'We have rules.' "


I hate the idea of prolonging this primary campaign. But making new rules and destroying party tradition are going to be far worse in the long run.

This paragraph is interesting...it shows what will be lost if the DNC is sidestepped in the process by the other wing of the party....call it what you may.

The state party chairmen and the grassroots Democrats agitated after the party's 2004 losses to devolve power from the Washington establishment. They wanted to break free of what they saw as the top-down myopia of an inbred pack of consultants, strategists, and pollsters. And Dean, embodying the new approach, arrived in Washington as an occupying force.


There is one more very telling paragraph in this article. It shows how easy it is to spread propaganda because figuring out the truth is just too complicated.

The current mess is the result of a bad brew of parochialism, party politics, misplaced bets, and, most of all, a surprisingly close and protracted fight for the nomination. The underlying facts are too complicated to compete with the simpler story line that Dean is to blame.


Those who defend breaking loose from the rules should realize that the old ways still want to control the party. Bredesen's plan, though it sounds good on the surface, disregards the rules and the ones who are trying to enforce them.


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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another great post ... and totally terrifying
The DLC may yet succeed in doing what Karl Rove couldn't: creating a permanent Republican majority.

They're losing power to Dean, Kos, and everyone else who wants Better Democrats (and I fall squarely in that camp). They aren't interested in people-powered politics. They want to slate their candidates, union style. And if they can't do that, they seem to be willing to split the party, keep their jobs and their fundraising $ rolling in ... and screw the rest of us.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "permanent Republican majority"
Good point.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. From the CNN transcript. He says superdelegates will decide it.
"BREDESEN: Since the -- if this comes down to the superdelegates, which I don't think anyone really wants -- it would be great if it were resolved in the primaries or between the candidates , but, if it comes down to that, we need to move it up. We need to take care of it in June. What I proposed was, let's get the superdelegates together some way or another, a very small meeting.

BLITZER: Just the superdelegates, not all of the delegates?

BREDESEN: No, no, just the superdelegates, the ones that have to make this decision. They will have the information -- I'm one of them -- that it takes to make a decision after the last primary is over. And let's see if we can't bring some closure to this thing, and not waste the summer beating up each other. Let's be organizing a campaign and running for president."

BREDESEN: But I'm not trying to be too parochial about this. I think the important thing is that it happen. And -- and it's got to happen under the umbrella of the DNC. No one else has the moral authority to call this together.

BLITZER: What does the chairman, chairman Howard Dean, what does he say about it?

BREDESEN: Well, when I spoke to him about it on Wednesday morning, I won't say he was real warm about the idea. And, you know, he's not been incredibly supportive.

But I would just say, you know, if you agree something's got to be done, what's your plan? If there's a better plan, believe me, I'm all for it. I just want to put a bookend on this thing in the middle of June, so that we don't have a disastrous summer for the party.

I hope he has a plan. And, again, I don't care if it's mine or someone else's. But I really think the DNC has got an obligation to step in here. This is a circumstance we didn't expect. And we have got to take this thing off autopilot and fly it to a safe landing. And I have put one idea forward. If he has a better one, I'm all for it."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/26/sitroom.01.html

It would save emotions and hurt feelings, but again this is making up new rules during the primary.

It is amazing how it is just plain overlooked that Obama's lead is almost insurmountable.

Odd, isn't it.

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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. I'm going to use part of this...
in the letter I am composing to the Super Delegates in my state. Thanks!

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegate-list.html

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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, this would be something outside the rules
but not necessarily breaking them.

I think you're right to be suspicious. But I also think that if we let this drag on until the convention in August, it'll be a real problem for the party and the eventual nominee, whoever it is.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Actually no one seems at all worried about rules. Anything seems to go.
:shrug:

This to me emphasizes the superdelegates way too much, they should make their decisions privately.

They should not be asked to make public statements. I imagine many of them owe the Clintons big time....and the decisions will be hard.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting analysis
I've seen a few people here float the idea that it's not just Hillary vs Obama, it's the DLC vs the DNC.

Which is a scary prospect.
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. To what degree is this about Terry McAuliffe
First, let me give credit where it's due: The man could (and did) raise money. He got us out of debt. His voter database ... outstanding.

But ... for all that, there wasn't much good election news, was there? And now his 'legacy' has been outdone by Dean--the upstart.

Is there a bit of an ego thing here? I'm really trying to make sense of this emerging fiasco.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I think both are pretty centrist, but the difference is in the mindset...
It is same difference as there was with centrist-governing Dean and the others...it is an attitude difference. Instead of going along to get along, you stand up for what you believe in. An attitude change, a mindset change.

Obama has that mindset, Hillary does not. But you are right, it does go deeper than just the two of them.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. the DLC in earlier incarnations were the Pro-War people
The one's that take the money from the MIC vs Everybody else

I don't know that the DLC is itself today, so evil. but it has a very bad record.

I'm a believer that race/gender are the dog and pony show

Conservatives taking money from War profiteers... relabelling everyone that's not THEM as
EXTREME LEFT

this has been going on since 1967

Maybe the Party should HAVE a split, but not at the worst time in history... GEESH
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Another hilary shill on m$$$m saying they
both have a chance to win. If we didn't have the m$$$m to fight, too..this would be over. I like the Democratic process and all but the reason hilary is still in is the m$$$m and her sewage campaign.

TYT has an excellent analysis on this called, "clinton Still Punching After The Bell Has Rung".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x110508
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. What pisses me off THE MOST is that IT IS CLINTON damaging the Party
this is not a slug fest

This is Clinton groin kicking and Obama parrying, then offering her a hand up, when she lands on her ass.

They are not taking us down, SHE IS.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Imho, he tried to seem even handed but as soon as he says
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 06:27 PM by sfexpat2000
transparency is the value, he is saying something really different.

He's saying he doesn't agree with Clinton trying to manipulate insiders behind the backs of voters -- only in a coded way.

That was my take, anyway.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Maybe they are trying to spin it as transparent. The Clintons are already manipulating.
It's not like they are going to stop manipulating b/c they get everyone in a room. In fact it might be easier (like a car salesman when they try to keep you forever at the dealership to pressure you into a sale). Furthermore, the superdelegates will be on record saying who they vote for at the Democratic convention so it will be transparent. It's not like it's a secret vote.

I smell a rat.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. What, are they selecting the Pope?
All the rest of us and all are hard work...

we're supposed to sit out in the plaza, waiting for a plume of smoke?
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. I agree.

1. First they tried to label it as a caucus making me think they want to spin it as just another caucus and not the superdelegates deciding who would be the nominee (later I think he referred to it as a primary).

2. He said he wouldn't say who he was for, then on a later interview he said something to infer he was neutral (yeah right).

Watching the man, something just didn't seem quite right.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You need to read this. Bredesen is determined. Taking over?
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 09:34 PM by madfloridian
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/03/a_way_to_avoid.html

"His fear is that if Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama continue to slug it out all the way to the convention floor in Denver, it will leave the party divided and exhausted less than 10 weeks before the Nov. 4 election.

Obama told reporters last night that he was open to Bredesen's plan. "I think giving whoever the nominee is two or three months to pivot into the general election would be extremely helpful," he said.

Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, is cool to the idea of a June summit of superdelegates, but Bredesen said he will continue to try to build support for the proposal, including this weekend at a policy conference that will be attended by about a dozen Democratic governors.

In the interview with the Globe, Bredesen said he remains open to other suggestions, however. "Most of the other suggestions seem to be, 'Let's cross our fingers and hope for the best,' " he said. "Hope is not a strategy."

Sounds like a new boss in town.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Do they have THIS authority?
seriously
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. They are just pushing until they get their way.
There are two new ideas coming out today for how to count FL delegates.

Geez, if we could just get through the primaries and let the committees handle it.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Translation: Bill and Hill are worried after stealing the nomination, they won't
have enough time to put the party back together.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. They're trying to STOP the NC Finale' on behalf of......
not Obama... call me crazy

jeebus, you're clear and on the money

I hope you do this professionally because you certainly are that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Okay, do you mean the NC primary?
When is it? I think that is what you meant.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. yes yes.... sorry....
i'm a burn out... yes
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Mark to read tonight.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
24. With DINOs like Bredesen, we don't need Rethugligans
Bredesen is a major disappointment here in Tennessee. He polls better among Rethugs than Dems and seems to have no interest whatsoever in the election integrity issue (even though TN is considered one of the eight most vulnerable states for electronic election fraud). In 2004, we could not even get him to endorse and support the Kerry/Edwards ticket. (WTF?)

If it were up to this Tennessean, Bredesen would move back north -- good riddance.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. A Superdelegate Convention Negates all the Primaries and Caucuses
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 08:14 AM by Demeter
and that's what gives you, MadF, and the rest of us the willies.

There are two classes of delegates, but only one counts?

There are two classes of delegates, and Hillary thinks her forces can browbeat the Party officials into choosing her, but she needs privacy and time to do it in without any elected observers to intervene?

Yeah, I can see where this might give the democratic (small d) process pause.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks for the info. and for trying to begin a discussion about
this, madfloridian. I agree that on the surface it sounds good, but there was something nagging at me nonetheless. Bredesen has been on Rachel Maddow's show for an interview, Sam mentioned this on Seder on Sunday, the Gov. was on Washington Journal, and then The Situation Room.

He's talking about transparency, recorded votes, and I heard him say something to the effect of, 'having this process open and transparent as opposed to candidates making phone calls and twisting arms throughout the summer' would be a better process, and again, on the surface that sounds like a better solution, but I'm not so sure nor as trusting.

Circumventing the DNC, the rules committee and the credentials committee doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but neither does the prolonged delving into the gutter either. If I could somehow come up with the perfect solution.....
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