Bill Clinton called out on DOMA....FINALLY

[gaiilonfong]

Triangulating BIll doesn't get away with it this time...Good on the students!

http://www.mtvu.com/video/?id=1584087&vid=218818

FIXED

[Drachasor]

1. You need to fix that link

[MonkeyFunk]

2. We all know what happened with DOMA

it was a Newt Gingrich plan to hurt Clinton - and it worked. All these years later useful tools are STILL using it to divide democrats.

[gaiilonfong]

3. Spoken like a true Clintonista apologist

NO FRIGGIN SALE


Did you hear Hillary is toast and she stole ReTHUG Olympias Snowe's story about Bosnia...bWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHa

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Anybody who doesn't know what happened

with DOMA is an idiot.

[gaiilonfong]

5. I know EXACTLY what happened

The ClintonS threw us gay people under the bus.......

Did I tell you Hillary got caught LYING about being in SNIPER fire in Tuzla...BWAAAHAHAHAHHAAHhahaha

[cboy4]

13. I had no idea you cared about gay people getting thrown

under the bus.

Why you barely have a peep to say about a single LGBT issue gaiilonfong.

Huh come you're not more vocal like the rest of us?

[MonkeyFunk]

27. Nope

DOMA was a Newt Gingrich ploy to hurt Democrats.

Tell me, if Clinton had vetoed DOMA, what would be different today? The veto would've been overridden in about two minutes, and we might've had a President Dole, plus a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage would've advanced.

And your concern for gay people now strikes me as insincere.

[mckeown1128]

33. You spinning a little too hard...

Don't give us the "he took away our rights to protect our rights" bullshit.

There was/is NEVER going to be constituional amendment passed banning gay marriage, nothing could have helpd Dole win, and it would have been overridden.(but saying something is going to happen anyway so why try.... is cop out)

Stop trying to spin this for the Clinton's. They were and they are wrong on this issue.

[MonkeyFunk]

45. Your speculation is no better than mine

there's no question that it would've been used against Democrats. Do you really think DOMA was unpopular at the time? Do you think the veto wouldn't be overridden?

I'm not spinning anything - I'm telling the truth. Bill Clinton didn't drive DOMA. He didn't want it passed - the Republican congress did it.

[george_maniakes]

17. Are you really this full of yourself in real-life too?

Why on earth would everyone know what the hell a doma is?

[C_U_L8R]

19. And there dear readers is a perfect example of argumentum ad personam

agree or you're an idiot : - )))

[karynnj]

25. Snowe is a Republican not a "Rethug" - there is NOTHING thugish about her

[bigbrother05]

6. And NAFTA was a GHWB hold over

What about welfare reform? or DADT? Either way, he signed them. Was there a veto override involved?

We need to look at where we're going after Jan 09. If our nominees intend to fix some of those kinds of things, let's hear them say it and have open discussions about what to expect.

There are many things about WJC's time in office that are sorely missed and we would all have been better off if he could have served a 3rd term. That said, everything he touched didn't turn into gold (or crap either). We have to build on the things that make our country stronger and recognize the things we can improve on.

edit to clarify grammar

[gaiilonfong]

7. Obama has already called for the repeal of DOMA

DADT too!

Hillary NO...on all of DOMA just parts...NOT good enough for me!

[bigbrother05]

8. But, but, but ... those are just words, where are his policy proposals

Thought I'd help out in case the Clinton Scab Patrol is busy/asleep/in their inner circle.

:rofl:

[TheDonkey]

12. lol

where are the policy proposals! It cannot be true unless it is a cryptic policy proposal!

[UALRBSofL]

39. Obama did not call for the repeal of DOMA, he favors civil unions

And unless he changed his mind recently would you provide a link where he has called for a repeal of DOMA?

[vssmith]

24. There were two other gems Willimam Jefferson Clinton-Bush signed

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act--overturned a New Deal reform, the Glass-Steagal Act. Some economist say that G-L-B is at least partly responsible for the sub-prime mess.

Telecommunication Act of 199?--allowed the media companies to consolidate. Rupert Murdoch had a wet dream about this one.

[Drachasor]

10. That doesn't explain why Hillary doesn't want to get rid of all of DOMA now

[JerseygirlCT]

18. Well, maybe there's a lesson in that: do the right thing, not the

politically expedient thing, when dealing with people's civil rights.

[KittyWampus]

20. what is even sicker are the DU'ers who use GLBT Issues as a wedge right here on the Left

[zulchzulu]

26. So did Newt force Bill to sign DOMA? WTF?

Bill signed it (at a time when he wasn't exactly doing his marriage any good) and helped create the best TOOL for homophobes everywhere and had states use anti-gay legislation to bring out the GOP knuckledraggers in elections.

Bill betrayed us to cover his ass.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. If Bill had vetoed it

the veto would've easily been overridden. This was a ploy just before the election to hurt Clinton no matter what he did.

Newt Gingrich thanks you for doing his bidding all these years later.

[phrigndumass]

43. I agree, DOMA was a republican tool ...

... I'm gay, and I remember it well. It was part of that evil "Contract For America"

[FrenchieCat]

9. That was kind of uncomfortable! Seems like ol' Bill doesn't like to

answer questions he doesn't like. Rewriting history my foot. He must have been talking about himself!

[TheDonkey]

11. Damn, why is he bullying that young lady journalist about the question!?

He's a jerk and a creep. Totally didn't answer the question other than "I moved the issue forward" after his hissyfit. WTF?! moved it forward? How about the exact opposite jackass.

[Norrin Radd]

14. kr

[JTFrog]

15. Wow. I thought I would stop being shocked after seeing his Ad for McCain on McCain's website.

There is always another low.

[merbex]

16. Wow, the defensiveness just pours forth and at the same time he

puts the college journalist on the spot when she simply asked a reasonable question

Maybe it's because I'm from MA and I feel that issue is so over and everyone, absolutely everyone, has realized how normal it is for 2 people in love, who are residents of our Commonwealth to have the right to go into Town Hall and get a marriage license.

If they are residents of our state, their taxes help pay for the printing of that license and every other license that a municipal government gets to issue.

This really is a matter of equality.

He did throw throw gays under the bus.

[Malidictus Maximus]

22. Very well stated

All I would have to do is to change 'MA' to SF (San Francisco) and your statement says it all.
Thanks

[Voice for Peace]

21. Isn't his rationalization kind of like

saying, for example, that if the federal government gives women the right to vote, that the backlash against women will be greater than if some states can deny women the right to vote if they feel like it?

Sure, that's the 'real world.'
And who would want to take a stand to change that?

[4themind]

23. self-del

[MonkeyFunk]

29. He couldn't have changed anything

by vetoing it.

The veto would be overridden, Dems would've been hurt in the '96 election, and a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage would've been advanced.

It was a clever ploy by Gingrich to hurt Clinton no matter what he did. It worked.

[tabasco]

31. You don't seem to understand the concept of moral courage.

It's doing the right thing even when it it unpopular.

Moral courage is an important leadership trait.

Bill Clinton could have taken a moral stand for civil rights but he didn't.

That is called cowardice, which you explain away as political expediency.

Aren't you tired of this kind of non-leadership?

[MonkeyFunk]

34. It's impossible

to have observed politics for any length of time and believe as you do.

Some battles you can win. Some you can't. It's not a failing to recognize that.

Vetoing DOMA would've been WORSE for GLBT Americans than not vetoing it. It wasn't Clinton's bill - it was the Republicans'. They very smartly proposed it just before the election knowing that it would hurt Clinton no matter what he did: he could veto it and it would be used in the GE against all Democrats, or he would sign it and split the Democratic base.

Considering that the bill was going to become law no matter what Clinton did, who would benefit from a veto that would've helped elect more Republicans, perhaps even Bob Dole?

[ieoeja]

35. A lot of African-Americans are certainly glad you weren't there to advise LBJ. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

36. LBJ could win that battle

and he did. Your analogy fails.

[uponit7771]

40. We would've lost if he fought the battle the way you suggested though

[ieoeja]

42. The analogy holds.

You wrote: "They very smartly proposed it just before the election knowing that it would hurt Clinton no matter what he did: he could veto it and it would be used in the GE against all Democrats, or he would sign it and split the Democratic base."

LBJ knew he would split the Democratic base when he signed the Civil Rights legislation.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. LBJ WANTED the bill passed

Clinton did not want DOMA passed.

Are you seriously arguing that republicans gave Johnson the Civil Rights Act in an attempt to hurt him?

[tabasco]

37. LOL.

Clinton's lack of moral courage and failure to stand up to the republicans is what lost us so many seats in the Senate and House. Clinton effectively turned the Democratic party into a wing of the republican party. Compromising on civil rights has NEVER resulted in progress in this country. It's impossible to have observed history for any length of time and believe as you do.

If you think weak and compromising leadership is the way to win battles, I question your self-proclaimed superior knowledge.

[MonkeyFunk]

38. Nice way to avoid all the actual points

Who would benefit from a veto? DOMA would still have become law, and more democrats would've been hurt in the election. An anti-gay constitutional amendment would've been advanced.

So address those and quit pretending that politics is the place for moral purity.

[tabasco]

41. Those points are your opinions.

My opinion is that if Bill Clinton had demonstrated true leadership and moral backbone, instead of constant triangulation and compromise, less Democratic seats in the House and Senate would have been lost, and Al Gore would be in the last year of his Presidency.
Clinton wavered in the face of a fundie wingnut assault instead of STANDING UP to it!

[redqueen]

44. "Who would benefit from a veto?" The party.

Dems are assailed from left, right and center for not standing up for what they believe in.

Gee, I wonder why.

[MonkeyFunk]

47. In 1996

you think DOMA was unpopular? Only 27% of Americans supported gay marriage - almost 70% opposed.

I know it's easy to rewrite history, but to pretend that DOMA was something Bill Clinton wanted and supported is just ignorant. It was a republican tool to hurt democrats, and you guys are still being Newt's useful tools.

[redqueen]

48. "you guys are still being Newt's useful tools"

You're just getting uglier and uglier.

I'll give up now.

[MonkeyFunk]

50. Well why not argue with the facts?

Did Bill Clinton drive DOMA or did Newt Gingrich?

Would the veto have been overridden?

Would Clinton have been hurt politically if he vetoed it?

Sorry Redqueen, but Newt put this bill up PRECISELY because he knew it would have this long-term effect on Clinton. People who use it 12 years later to bsh Clinton are doing Newt's dirty work.

[Voice for Peace]

32. that's a different explanation.

I thought the other one wasn't valid, even if true.

[UALRBSofL]

30. gaiilonfog, they shouldn't be asking BigDog, WE should be

demanding Hillary and Barack repudiate DOMA. Bill isn't running so it's a moot point. However, if I got the opportunity I'd demand the candidates repudiate it as soon as they got in office. But you know neither one will. It's like a non-issue this election cycle to them.

[kdpeters]

49. What a jerk. So defensive and shrill.

He acts like we ought to be thanking him for throwing us under the bus.