Hillary Clinton is making me lose respect for one democrat I've always respected and adored

[LynneSin]

No - not Obama, but her husband Bill Clinton.

I loved the 8 years we had under Clinton. Sure, there were bad times but for 8 years there was alot of warm-fuzzies that made him one of the better presidents we had this past 50 years. At some point I thought I would support Hillary because honestly, I liked the idea of Bill Clinton as our 'first lady' - someone who could bring some respect back to a position that Laura seemed to drag down pretty crappily. Bill would be this person that would travel around the world and help restore the reputation we once had under him but so desperately lost with that idiot in the White House.

But honestly, I've heard Bill stumping for his wife and now he's attacking Obama - and it just makes me sad.

[helderheid]

1. I feel the same. :(

[Cha]

9. It's beyond sad but I have to say,

helderheid, that your Ooga Booga Smooga Wooga Obama logo makes me feel good.:)

[caledesi]

24. Me too! nt

[Cha]

28. ..

:hi:

[helderheid]

34. Oh GOOD!! Maybe I should make some t-shirts - what do you think?

[LakeSamish706]

2. Well then, if you haven't seen this poll you will want to....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5282978

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. I understand losing respect for Bill. I have too. But why blame his wife for it?

He is acting on his own.

[LynneSin]

14. No - those 2 are, without a doubt, a team

You attack Hillary and you're attacking Bill. And vice versa. Bill could have told Hillary that he'd campaign for her but not attack Obama. But I was listening to some of his speaches recently and well, that ain't the case.

[EFerrari]

17. No, they echo each other all the time. Lynne is right. n/t

[roguevalley]

22. she says he was first to talk to her -part of her 35 year thing- and

so we must take her at her word. They are planning this together. Very sad. I lost a relationship with two brothers over him.

[LaurenG]

4. I thought this continual meanness would cause him trouble

I don't know why he's gotten so negative, he used to use a lot of humor to make his points, now he's just mean.

[Melinda]

5. A lot of empathy here, and I'm sorry you're hurting.

My family and I appreciate exactly how you feel. :hug:

*On edit: spell check is a useful tool!

[mdmc]

6. very sad

Bigdog's new zipper problem

[TahitiNut]

7. That's why I posted ...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/475

:shrug:

[dchill]

8. All Bill has shown me...

is that I was wrong to respect him at all. He has made me see the error of my ways.

[stellanoir]

10. Yeah it's unbelievable the levels to which they've lowered themselves.

The day Richardson mentioned "gutter politics" I drove up the road.

I saw an Obama sign standing straight up on the front lawn of a lovely home on the East side of the road.

I saw a Hillary sign about 50 feet further up the road lying crooked in the gutter on the West side of the road.

It seemed more than a little ironic.

[beandoc]

11. I don't really think his tactics have changed all that much

His position has.
He's always been a tough campaigner and maybe a bit nasty. But the last time he had to campaign against a democrat was the '92 primary when he was an underdog. The comeback kid. From that position, he was allowed a little nastiness. After that, all of his campaigns have been against republicans, and it's tough to be nastier than them. And honestly, we loved him for taking on the republicans like he did.
Now he's no longer on the designated underdog team. He's not campaigning for himself and it can seem like his position as an ex-president is an unfair advantage. It gives him less latitude for nasty campaigning, and the style we loved in the 90s becomes dirty campaigning against a fellow democrat in the current election.
It's politics and it's up to him to adjust his style to his position in the political world, but this Obama supporter isn't going to lose all respect for the man who was a pretty good president (and a damn site better than the current one).
Besides, for whom did you think he was going to campaign?
If Bill Richardson thought it was ackward telling Hillary that he was supporting Obama....

[bellasgrams]

12. I find it sad that BO continuously attacks Bill, especially on the

race issue. It infuriates me. It's lowdown dirty politics, but the golden boy always gets a pass. The media is afraid to say anything against a minority candidate.

[Drachasor]

19. He brough it upon himself. And Bill's complete unwillingness to admit mistakes doesn't help either

Bill Clinton is ruining his reputation by his own actions, not anyone else's.

[bellasgrams]

30. Bill is a politician and he is not going to sit silently by and watch

a lying greenhorn who's only gotten this far because he's black, attack his wife. BO has no substance, his a bunch of empty words. He has so totally destroyed this party it will take years to repair the damage. He has had help from the useless DNC that disenfranchised millions of voters. It's really been screwed up. I'd like to have a do-over of the whole mess.

[Zodiak]

33. I'm appalled at this

"a lying greenhorn who's only gotten this far because he's black"

The people I see destroying the party are the ones that use this unsubstantiated crap as if it is a valid political argument.

[stillcool]

25. you mean this stuff?

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail
A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008
The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's
Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-

2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.


Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the
probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores
Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group
mentioned in the Obama stories."Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says. Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in
her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-

clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proudmDemocrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-

johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[bellasgrams]

29. There was no need for Clinton to apoligize. He did nothing

wrong,BO called him out repeated on racial remarks that no one else would have taken offense to. The following piece speaks well of my feelings:


March 26, 2008 at 06:53:48

The Obama Campaign's Strategic Blunder – They Made it Personal

by Angie Pratt Page 1 of 1 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com

When the Obama campaign made its claim of racism against Hillary after theNew Hampshire primary they made a booboo. A big one. Prior to that Clinton's supporters were open to entertaining a vote for Obama. Maybe he'd be OK.

The evening of Hillary's win in New Hampshire the claim came out that Hillary had somehow cheated. Somehow she had gotten white folks to vote for her because she was white and Obama was black. That claim was used to explain away Obama's defeat and set the stage for getting out the black vote in South Carolina.


The media jumped on it. It explained how they could have been so wrong. Chris Mathews and Keith Olbermann actually had to tone down their anti-Hillary rhetoric for a week or so. So this lie got repeated over and over again.

The result was the black community united behind Obama in South Carolina. Instead of getting at least 40% to 50% of the black vote that she probably would have gotten, Hillary got only 22%.

It worked. Obama had a winning strategy. If he could consistently get 80% to 90% of the black vote he'd be set.
Well … if it worked once … try it again. So the Obama camp called the Clintons racists again and again and again – at every opportunity.

The national media loved it. It fit with the stereotype that many wanted to tag Hillary with anyway – that's she'd do anything to win – including playing the race card. What black would vote for her if she'd stoop so low. Just goes to show that white folks can't be trusted.

All Hillary could say was “no I didn't.” As the Obama campaign knew/knows full well, disproving the negative is virtually impossible.

The problem with this approach and the strategic blunder for the Obama Campaign is that in the process of calling the Clintons racists they were also calling Hillary Clinton's supporters racists too. They made it personal.

Emotions boiled over. Blacks were mad because Obama was victimized by “mean ole Clinton.” Clinton's supporters were mad because they were being called racists too – most of whom had spent their lives trying to make themselves and this country colorblind.

Then the Rev. Wright revelation came out. In their tone deafness, Obama supporters tried to brush the issue aside by saying Rev. Wright was ACTUALLY typical – he wasn't an extreme example of black preachers.

"You mean it isn't just a few blacks who think that way?" asked whites to themselves and their friends. In so doing, Obama supporters inadvertently confirmed what had been whispered about in the white community for a long time – blacks are racists too.

Then the Obama folks made one more mistake. They went ahead and directly personalized the issue. In so many words they said, “if you can't understand, appreciate the context of Rev. Wright i.e., black liberation theology, then YOU (not just Hillary) are a racist.”

The response to that verbalized accusation by non-Obama supporters is/was perfectly predictable – “if you're going to call me one, I'm going to call you one.”

Nana nana boo boo!

Now many Hillary's supporters aren't going to vote for Obama if he wins the nomination. Remember those fabled moderates and independents that Obama said he'd be able to win? They aren't going to vote for him either. They got lumped together with the Hillary supporters and labeled racists too.

So much for being a uniter.

The Obama Campaign should have never played the race card. The consequences will reverberate well past the election.

[stillcool]

31. No. That is 'mis-remembering'

the articles I provided you use 'quotes' and are dated. They are not recollections, or supposition. They are an accurate account of events as they were reported, when they happened.

[redqueen]

13. Look on the bright side... now we finally see their true colors.

[Adelante]

15. That's a good point, Redqueen

I feel the OP's sadness about this sad business, but it's better to look at it realistically rather than emotionally.

[SIMPLYB1980]

16. I've lost respect for so called Democrats that are mad at Clinton

for defending herself.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/31/democrats_focus_attacks_on_clinton_at_debate/
So called democrats have been attacking her for a long time.

"Typical of leading candidates, Clinton did not launch a counterattack against her Democratic opponents for the nomination, saving her shots for Bush and congressional Republicans. She said they had short-changed American children on healthcare and were bent on privatizing Social Security. All the Democrats on the stage last night are in favor of expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program to provide health insurance for low- and middle-income children, and none backs the privatization of the country's popular retirement program."

[stillcool]

26. that is from October 31,2007

Here's two from November 2, 2007

Did Hillary "Play The Gender Card"?
By Greg Sargent - November 2, 2007, 3:51PM

So what really happened here, anyway?
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/11/did_hillary_play_the_gender_card.php
After the debate, Hillary's campaign sent out an email describing her as "one tough woman" and deriding the nature of the "piling on" that had ensued. And the next day, AFSCME president Gerald McEntee endorsed Hillary with remarks that almost certainly had plenty of input from the Hillary campaign: "Six guys against Hillary. I’d call that a fair fight. This is one strong woman.:
So just after the debate the campaign didn't argue that she was being attacked because she's a woman. But the campaign clearly did try to strongly emphasize the gender picture here.
--------------------

Hillary pollster Mark Penn subsequently said in a conference call that the image of six men beating up on Hillary would play well with female voters. And anonymous Clinton advisers told the Associated Press that "there is a clear and long-planned strategy to fend off attacks by accusing her male rivals of
gathering against her." Though one should approach anonymous stuff with caution, this doesn't seem especially difficult to believe.
---------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: As best as we can determine, Hillary never explicitly made the accusation that the men were piling up on her because she's a woman. But you'd have to be very credulous indeed not to believe that the campaign is explicitly trying to emphasize, for various political reasons, the fact that she's a woman getting hammered by a bunch of men. I don't know if that constitutes "playing the gender card" or not -- the exact meaning of the term is unclear, at least to me -- but that's obviously what's going on.

Sunday, November 4, 2007
CLINTON PLANNED TO USE GENDER CARD ALL ALONG

RON FOURNIER, AP - Clinton's advisers, speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss internal matters, said there is a clear and long-planned strategy to fend off attacks by accusing her male rivals of gathering against her. The idea is to change the subject while making Clinton a sympathetic figure, especially among female voters who often feel outnumbered and bullied on the job. As one adviser put it, Clinton is not the first presidential candidate to play the "woe-is-me card" but she's the first major female presidential candidate to do it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071101/ap_po/on_deadline_c...

[msallied]

18. I bet there were a lot of people who enjoyed their time "under" Clinton

OH SNAP! lol

[Beacool]

20. You haven't heard the things that Obama and his camp throw at Hillary?

Selective memory is not exactly how to judge the other side of an issue.

[Indenturedebtor]

21. Give us examples

You will be hardpressed to find anything NEARLY so nasty as what they've brought out.

I spent years YEARS defending Bill's name and legacy against coworkers, people at the bus stop, family members etc. And then he goes and acts like a RW hack. Fuck him.

[GoneOffShore]

23. He started acting like a RW hack when he signed DOMA without a murmur.

[LynneSin]

27. You're losing the point of the message

Personally they're both acting like spoilt brats. But between Michelle Obama and Bill Clinton, Clinton is the one that I have had a longtime political relationship with. I knew the man was flawed but his years in the White House were good years for many of us. But he's out there slogging the mud with is wife and it just makes me a bit sad. He's willing to destroy any chance of EITHER of them getting into the White House by engaging in this war of words.

[Raine]

32. Same here

sad and mad.

[RBInMaine]

35. What about FDR, Truman, JFK, RFK, Cuomo, ...?

[David Zephyr]

36. LynneSin, it is sad.

We are witnessing a very sad event these days and hopefully it will end sooner than later and before Bill and Hillary marginalize themselves further.

The latest poll today show Obama now 10% over Hillary. Americans have seen enough. They don't hate Hillary and Bill, they are choosing Obama.

Here's hoping they can reach way down inside and find the grace to bow out with dignity before someone like Jimmy Carter or Al Gore or both tell them to stop publicly. That would not be a good thing for the Clintons or for Democrats. But that day is coming.