When the general election comes, I really don't think I can work with the Obama supporters here

[bigtree]

I'm a fiercely loyal Democrat. And, there should be no question from folks who know me that I will work my ass off to elect Barack Obama if he achieves the nomination, even though I strongly defend and advocate for Hillary Clinton here.

But, too many Obama supporters posting at DU are intent on ostracizing Hillary Clinton supporters. I have a page of ignores which is filled with folks who thought it was fine to launch vile, personal insults at me without provocation. I don't mind mixing it up in fights I start. I'll take my lumps. But, I won't let myself be batted around by folks who think their personal attacks are a credible substitute for actually debating the substance of posts.

A lot has been said here about how Clinton supporters might feel if our candidate lost. I'm not emotionally tied to any of these candidates to the extent that their demise in our primary will cause me to have some kind of breakdown. I'll move, immediately, to promoting and defending our nominee against the republicans.

But, I will be carrying some very hard feelings about the way Obama supporters have treated my efforts here. Not the times where I was obviously angling for a fight. Just the times where I tried to make an effort to deal with issues in this campaign and was met with all of the hatred posters feel toward Clinton.

What to do? I post in the Hillary Clinton forum. Today a poster called it a 'circle jerk'. I'm trying not to hate the entire effort here, just because a few angry folks decided to unload on me with their ridicule. But I hate this. I hope this effort here contributes to the advancement of our nominee, but, so far, I can only see the divisions. I know the party will come together, but I also know that I'm feeling split apart from this place I've made my political home since 2003. I'll reflect on my own strident opposition here, but I'm wondering how I'll ever be able to overcome the anger and hurt I've felt from the unprovoked personal attacks.

I'm questioning the real value of these forums as a unifier for our party. Most of the efforts here are intent on dividing us among ourselves. I'm really trying to find a foothold here. It's just that my only offense here seems to be that I support and advocate for Hillary Clinton. I brought that on myself, but, so did over 11 million others in this primary contest.

Nope, I really don't see myself here, with many of these same folks who have regarded me as less than the slime on the bottom of their shoes, working together at DU to elect our nominee. I'll work hard, but, I don't think it will be here at DU.

It's a pretty major thing for me, too.

[book_worm]

1. I'm sure it's a feeling shared by many Obama supporters re: Clinton supporters.

I'll vote for the Dem nominee whoever that may be. As far as working with DU supporters just remember once a nominee is selected people won't be able to post all the negativity they may feel if they still feel it.

[SoFlaJet]

7. I am a democrat

and will vote for the democratic nominee regardless of who it is. I will NOT vote against my better interests out of some kind of spiteful reaction or some perceived wrong done to me by the Clinton supporters here, some of whom I truly question if they really ARE true democrats or republicans that would rather face her than Obama in November

[bigtree]

26. you're probably right

I'll likely get right in the swing of things. I wake up every day that way. I really haven't built up some reservoir of hate or animosity toward Barack Obama that I'll have to overcome. He's mostly been a gentleman, even in his attacks (some out of bounds) on his rival.

But, I also believe Hillary Clinton has been exemplary in this campaign. That makes me some sort of despicable figure to those who see no problem with their vile attacks on the lady. It may have gone too far to repair.

[thevoiceofreason]

102. BigTree, you are a great advocate for Hillary and I, for one, willbe honored to work with you

Regardless of the nominee

[H2O Man]

2. Work with the people

that you are most comfortable with. And focus on a range of election contests.

[MaineDem]

3. I would think it's only a few "over zealous" supporters on either side

I think you'll find that most Obama supporters aren't posting the crap. Most of us hate it as much as you do.

I have every confidence those of us who really care will work hard for our nominee, whomever it turns out to be.

Don't give up hope. :)

[blm]

109. And most don't use insults, either. Those with no longterm knowledge of the posters

tend to mischaracterize their support.

I, for one, have my skirmishes and exchanges with opposition supporters, knowing full well most of them ARE conflicted in this primary, but LOYAL Democrats.

[LisaM]

4. I agree with you.

I'm also damned sick of seeing feminists demeaned, and the whole feminism movement demeaned as some kind of second-tier problem (and I would argue the same for my gay sisters and brothers). OK, the Obama people won. They painted both Clintons as racists, and people bought it. They completely took away any cache Hillary had for working on women's issues for years, not to mention that we finally have a viable women candidate. Guess what? She can't run on that because apparently race is the only division that matters. She would be roundly jeered.

Well, remember, some victories are Pyrrhic.

[grasswire]

17. good points

They used her strengths against her. Just as Karl Rove has demonstrated previously.

[cliffordu]

5. sorry

Bye

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. LOL

So you've got "pages of ignores" but Obama supporters are the ones ostracizing people.

Funny shit.

[bigtree]

10. I just pop the ones who jump on me. That's a recent thing I started to cut down on personal attacks

and to make my time here tolerable. Obama supporters are the only ones ostracizing me *personally. That's what this post is about. My own participation here. Others will have to decide for themselves.

Hey, you're still here and visible to me.

[onenote]

118. I've noticed and I understand your predicament.

I stayed on the fence for a long time before deciding to support Obama. At the time, I said that while I was supporting Obama, if he didn't get the nomination I would support HRC enthusiastically. And from time to time, I posted comments that were critical of Obama supporter that I thought were over the top in their juvenile name calling and exagerrated claims about HRC. However, I also found myself drawn into personal attack fights with HRC supporters who I felt unfairly criticized Obama and his supporters.

Some folks that I respect and whose views I appreciate have departed GD-P because it became such a cesspool and because it was dragging down even the best of the posters here. Hopefully, they will come back to DU during the GE campaign. And I hope you are able to do the same.

[redqueen]

16. It's always different.

When it's Hillary *flat-out refusing* to go along with a state's plan for a re-vote, that's fine and dandy!

When it's Obama who has a problem with a plan and says the DOJ should review it... that's unconscionable!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Oh yeah. Obama wants to disenfranchise voters.

But it's OK when Clinton wants to steal pledged delegates, because it's in the rules.

:rofl:

[redqueen]

22. Persuading pledged delegates to go against the will of the voters...

yeah... that's not disenfranchising.

Nooooooooooo... never!

In CRAZYTOWN!

[NDambi]

42. LOL...REAL FUNNY SHIT...

[joshcryer]

113. You are delusional.

[panader0]

8. I joined in '05 and there was never this kind of rancor then

All of the anger was aimed at bushco, and I ate it up. I recieved a free education at this forum. The primaries have changed this spirit a lot. When the the nominee is clear, this place will return to repub bashing.

[Nitrogenica]

9. There are fake DU-ers on both sides name calling to get us to fight with each other.

[tammywammy]

11. I don't put that much stock into what anonymous people post on internet message boards

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

58. Best post I've seen in days!

Brilliant!

:applause:

[tammywammy]

66. Why, thank you

thankyouverymuch

:blush:


Seriously, every time I see one of these type of posts admonishing so-and-so's supporters on here, I just really can't get that worked up. Sure, there are posters on here that I don't really care for, but seriously, I don't get mad at them. I don't let it effect how I am or what I think about Obama or Clinton.

:shrug:

I've always said, when I start taking DU that seriously, it's time for me to stop coming to DU.

[DB1]

12. It is difficult here, but take solice that at your local level.......

things are much more civil. I will be at a county convention as a lone Obama supporter from my precinct with 2 Clinton delegates and we seem to disagree on a few things but no one gets hostile or overzealous. Hope it is like that for you. I use DU for info gathering, not name calling or my guys better than yours type of crap. I have put nasty responders on ignore as well, funny thing is many of them get entombed. DU will improve as time goes by. I think there are many normal/sane/not over the top Clinton and Obama supporters that lay in the weeds so to speak.

[bigtree]

14. I took the rollover with Kerry, it's been wearying since then

I want to win the WH and I can't let up until that happens. It's like I haven't slept since that night when the Gore guy got up on stage and announced he wasn't conceding yet.

[DB1]

24. You are more intense than I, but Kerry did rollover......

I know you support HRC with a passion, and I would vote for her if she winds up the nominee, but I see this election cycle as a point where people like you and I have a chance to turn the party back into ours and not that of big donors and corporate dominance. That letter to Pelosi is an example of people with cash having too much influence. imho

[tekisui]

13. If you can't work with the Obama Supporters here, please try the local ones

in your town. DU is an abrasive, proud place. I think those you would meet locally would be more accommodating.

[bigtree]

18. abrasive and proud. sounds appealing

the reality is more destructive than that for some.

I will find other ways to work to advance our nominee. I always have. You can't really make enough of a difference by pecking on the keyboard all day. This board has been an anchor, though.

[grantcart]

15. ironic given your previous posts but atleast you are begining to admit that Obama will be the nomine

[crankychatter]

21. swords to plowshares

now there's a thought

[redqueen]

20. Yeah... it's a pretty major thing for a lot of us, bigtree.

I won't blame people here though. I'll put the blame where it fucking well belongs... on the DLC and Clinton herself.

:puke:

[LiberalAndProud]

23. Just so you know

you make a difference here. There are many who read without comment. I know what you are saying about the pile-ons, but I'd like you to know that even though it might appear that what you say falls on deaf ears, many read without comment and appreciate your voice here.

I will not pick a side between Barrack and Hillary. (My state caucus is finished and delegates distributed.) America will win with either of our candidates in the White House, and I am optimistic that one of them will be. I am determined to be happy about a Democratic win in November, regardless of the eventual nominee. You, and others like you, have helped me to see the good in Senator Clinton, and that has been no small task, given the tenor of the dialog here.

So keep up the good fight, bigtree. Thanks for being here.

Really.

[JVS]

25. What, are you going to go cry in your teacup or something?

[knight_of_the_star]

29. You are Fail

[depakid]

27. I just hope some of them are stuffing envelopes- and not out pounding doors

or speaking with voters over, say age 25.

[MADem]

28. The bright spot is that this forum is a small one. It is not typical of the Democratic Party.

These folks are way left of the bulk of the party. It's the tip of the left wing, mostly, here. The moderates and centrists are viewed with suspicion, the poor conservative Dems are excoriated.

I'll vote for the Democrat, and I will drive people to the polls (most of whom will vote for McCain if Clinton doesn't get the nom) but I don't think I'll be mustering much enthusiasm for the process, either.

I'll bet most of your IGNORES will be gone after the General, certainly--maybe even after the nomination.

I think there needs to be a change in the way new members are vetted here during primary season. Maybe require them to get a hundred posts before they can start a thread, or something. That'll slow down the trolls, anyway.

[DB1]

33. I don't think 100 post limit would help,.....

There are people here who are over a thousand and been here just a few weeks. I think we just need to be patient and thank the mods for starting GDP. that way people can avoid it if need be.

[MADem]

40. GDP used to be General Discussion-Politics, but it was renamed to shove all the primary crap--

and most of it IS crap--in one place.

The idea behind the hundred posts would be to give the mods a sense of the person's interests and personality. If the first hundred posts are NOTHING but "Yeah" and "Me, too" and KICK or K/R, followed by a trollish hundred and first thread starting post, well, you gotta figure that one needs a pizza delivery. And then they'll have to spend time building up a new sock puppet before they could have their "fun" such as it is.

[DB1]

80. Yes, that makes sense. Good Idea.

[lumberjack_jeff]

86. My fear is that it's a microcosm.

I wish that Obama supporters would take the same pride in their outreach to other Democrats.

[rateyes]

30. There's been a lot of vitriol spewed from both sides.

This is a two-way street.

[Rene]

90. Hey politics is not a tea party. I like Hillary's spunk and fight...and I believe she's been above

board...far more than the sneaky obama campaign.

[harun]

98. I don't see it

I do see multiple people from the Hillary campaign (Ferraro, Bill, etc.) continually make the assertion that Obama is only in the position he is now because he is part black. That is too freeperish for me to handle, sorry. Everything Hillary and Obama bring to the table is the reason they are where they are now. I.e. talent, education, communication skills, good staff's, great history of accomplishments, inspiring people etc. To try and say it is only because he is black is totally below the belt and just Bullsh*t. You don't see Obama's people pushing that Hillary is "the token" first American woman president.

[Ronnie]

116. :"Ferraro, Bill, etc."

Who's etc.? Continually? Get a grip.

[BlueIdaho]

31. This forum

is not about unification - this forum is the relief valve on a pressure cooker. I hope and pray there will be time for healing to occur. In the end we all need to ask ourselves if we really want four more years of republican rule in America. Think Iraq, Iran, economy, health care, education, and the environment - then think how it could be different with a Democrat in the White House supported by a Democratic congress. That may help you make up your mind.

[bigtree]

34. I'm not the least bit swayed from my support of the party.

You should have seen my Nissan with all of the handmade signs in the windows advocating for Dukakis. I don't personally know anyone who is as partisan in favor of our party as I am, except, my wife. If Lieberman ran? Who knows. But these two make the choice easy. Proud to be a Democrat. My favorite button.

[BlueIdaho]

110. Good for you!

And I'll be honored to stand next to you in the trenches come October and November no matter who our candidate is!

[MonkeyFunk]

32. I agree.

So much of it has gone beyond just disagreement. Some want Clinton and supporters exiled, destroyed, crushed, humiliated and beaten. Many lie with impunity, bring every right-wing smear they can find here, and otherwise just act like Freepers.

[Lilith Velkor]

81. To be fair

A lot of them probably are freepers, or newly converted Obamacans.

[Life Long Dem]

35. Do you know

Obama's side or at least I, have experienced the very same thing your so upset about. That is, the vile personal insults directed at me without provocation. This comes from both sides though. But sitting on the Obama side it feels to me like there is more of it coming from Hillary supporters than Obama supporters. But that I believe is because I am on sitting on Obama's side. And which you may be seeing more so. But I understand your feelings and I do hope nothing said is taken personal.

[bigtree]

37. I pretty much have accepted that's the case. I sympathize. I've seen that. What to do?

I need my outlet, but it gets self-destructive posting here. Know what I mean?

[LaurenG]

36. You can

and you must. Just as Obama supporters will have to back Senator Clinton. I know how you feel but in the end we will have to figure out a way to bridge and repair the damage, we will have to.

[bigtree]

38. maybe not here, OB.

But, I quit cigarettes years ago. This would be just as hard.

[LaurenG]

39. Oh LOL this might be harder - but we can do it

We don't know who is going to win yet. No one knows for sure.

Please encourage me to re unite if I should start feeling badly.

[Adelante]

105. If you can quit cigarettes, you can do this

Don't go, bigtree. :hug:

[Occam Bandage]

41. The feeling is, in many cases, mutual.

[bigtree]

43. I realize that.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

44. Everyone here needs to get a grip and not take things so personally.

A supporter does not equal the candidate.

[redqueen]

49. Agree.

[Kahuna]

45. Your loss...

[Sparkly]

47. Perfect example.

What was the point of that reply? Why did you post it?

[Kahuna]

54. I posted it because I felt like it. Duh. You need to lighten up.

I'm a little too old for you to be trying to correct.

[Sparkly]

56. "trying to correct"

It was a sincere question. Why did you feel like it, and while you were feeling, what were you thinking? :shrug:

[Kahuna]

61. Listen up. i don't have a problem with you. But do not use that tone with me..

I'm a grandmother who has been around the block a few times. Neither you or anyone else has the right to DEMAND that I explain myself to anybody. I would never do it to you and I don't expect that you should do it to me. Just consider me your little mystery of life if it means that much to you. Peace out.

[Sparkly]

63. "That tone?!"

Of course I make no "demands." Consider it rhetorical questioning if you like.

The point is that there's a level of jocular hostility here that's alienating people, and it's counter-productive. I don't think it's even given much thought anymore -- it's just an automatic urge one "feels" like gratifying.

Obviously my daring to ask what you were thinking struck a nerve. You certainly don't need to answer me. I hope it causes other people to pause a moment and think; and if it only causes some to bristle and scold me, that's okay too.

[greguganus]

92. You know the answer. Hillary cares nothing for the party only for herself.

She is a monster. A beast. It feels good to poke a stick at the beast.

[lumberjack_jeff]

87. It isn't "his loss" it is our loss.

A democrat needs to win this one.

Obama. Needs. Hillary's. Voters.

The self-appointed persecutorial squad needs to lighten up.

[Sparkly]

46. A few thoughts.

First, it's good to see you, and I appreciate your post.

I used to think the people with "DNC" logos as avatars were the real rebels, radicals and brave anti-establishment types around here. They get ostracized. It's safe to claim "lefty" on DU, even while being completely unable to define what "left" is or what they mean by it, beyond some level of rage (and even, at times, promoting or defending some very anti-socialist views). Don't get me started!!

Now it seems the Clinton supporters here are the outcasts, despite the fact that our candidates have virtually the same positions on everything (with her healthcare proposal somewhat to the left of Obama's). Supposedly this is because she is being mean, unfair, and hurting the party in her campaign, and he isn't. I think there's a double-standard in the media and the perceptions here -- to me, they're BOTH running campaigns like politicians (divisive, insulting, mean, unfair, accusatory, self-interested, etc.) and I'm not freaked out by it, because I just don't expect anything different.

I've defended both Clinton and Obama here, but attacks on Obama are fewer and are met with plenty of opposition. Attacks on her are constant and are cheered more than jeered, so I've long found myself defending her more often. H2S and I are often amazed at how ANY statement that's not black/white for/against Clinton/Obama gets us attacked as "Clinton Supporters!" It's incredible. (Remember the time you thought I was a closet Obama supporter?) We haven't signed up to anybody's website, haven't donated a cent to either candidate, haven't made a phone call or written a letter on either's behalf, etc. He sees a whole lot of negative about both; I try to focus on positives about both; but man, that stance is just not even credible on DU right now.

So, kudos to you and all those here who dare to say they support Clinton. I know what you're saying, because without even being anybody's "Supporters," I think I speak for both H2S and myself when I say we find ourselves getting really negative thoughts and feelings about Obama's campaign from the knee-jerk group-think we find (from many, not all) here, and we have to take a break.

I don't think that level of discourse will continue after the nomination is decided, and if it does, the DU admins will deal with it. If such feelings continue or worsen after the nomination is decided, I suggest going to the state party and getting active on the ground (we'll see you there!) and/or getting active sharing thoughts on some other sites. Or, maybe there could be a forum here for appeasement or transition or something, who knows.

My bottom line: It's about McCain. Defeating him is the real mission!! Whatever it takes, please don't let the rest distract you. :hi:

[bigtree]

52. thanks, Sparkly

I put myself here, knowing full well of the opposition at DU to Hillary Clinton. I'm in a bit over my head, though. We'll see how it goes.

[stevenleser]

73. People in general have a well known bias in favor of the more popular person

What can ya do? ;-)

[lumberjack_jeff]

88. Right. I remember being the only McGovern supporter in my Jr Hi.

I remember how that turned out.

Some things never change. If I'm with the majority, I know that I fucked up somehow.

[dsc]

48. I have read your posts and many of the responses

If it weren't for the gay forum, the recovery forum, and some NC people I would likely be gone. There are people here about whom I will never be able to think the same again. I wish that weren't true but it is. Yes, there are some disrupters and I am sure they, and their sockpuppets, contribute mightily to the toxic atmosphere. But there are also long time members who are total disgraces. This forum has totally ruined this site and should be shut down and rejiggered. There is fault on both sides but the most fault is with a total lack of any rule enforcement (save the three thread rule).

[joshcryer]

114. Yeah, it's the long term members, the people with long term familiar nicknames.

The people you would have never expected to behave this way. The people who in 2004 didn't behave half this bad. It's insane.

[NYDem Observer]

50. Don't let the few rotten apples spoil the bunch

If we are to win the GE we are going to need both sides working together.

[susankh4]

51. Same here.

Think I'll just crawl into a hole and let them do all the work. They clearly do not need us.

[bigtree]

53. I really wonder about that. I'll be at the polls voting Democratic. Self-motivated.

But, I know how hard it is to turn votes out here in the real world. I'm wondering if there will be any significant effort from the Obama camp, at all, to appeal to these voters who've cast their ballot for Clinton. The talk about dividing the party seems to suppose that if Hillary just folded we'd all come together. I'm pretty sure that's the case here. Elsewhere, I just don't know, because, unlike the conventional wisdom, Hillary's folks are just as passionate about her as Obama's, and if the polls are to be believed, less enamored of Obama than his folks are of her.

[Sparkly]

59. Yes, there WILL be a significant effort.

And it'll involve the DNC and major party leaders, as well.

It might not involve everybody on DU, so take breaks as needed and focus elsewhere. That's my advice anyway.

[susankh4]

60. Don't get me wrong...

I'll still vote Dem in all liklihood.

I just can't see myself working for this camp which I feel has really bullied Hillary's supporters at every turn. I just don't want to be part of it. To be honest... I don't want to see *even the other side* treated the way I have been.

I disdain the race baiting. I am really NOT behind Obama on this Rev. Wright issue. And I cannot tolerate all the bashing of our former Dem. president, Bill.

[Sparkly]

64. How about working for your state party, for Democrats all down the line?

Or at least start there?

[emilyg]

67. Make sure there's room for me.

[superkia]

55. It wouldnt be as bad if the campaigns didnt throw their kitchen...

appliances and fixtures around, then the media would have to come up with their own shit. Where did it all start? I have asked before and ask again, could somebody put together a list of the negative campaign tactics that have went around and when they originated and from where? We should be looking at the campaigns as the problem, not their supporters that get fired up supporting them and too involved in it.


Please, where did all the negativity and republican style politics come from, what did each campaign do or say and when. Maybe if we find the source, we can start to recognize it and stay away from doing it more?

[JuniperLea]

57. I'll be fine once the plates of crow are passed aroung... eom

[Asgaya Dihi]

62. It's all a matter of perspective I'd guess.

You feel put upon because of what some portion of Obama supporters do, and you grant it once yourself in the post that it's only some portion doing that, but it strikes me that the body of your post was filled with generic accusations or complaints about "Obama supporters" and not just the few who are a problem. Think that might offend some who have been doing their best to stay above it all?

Isn't it possible, or even likely, that you're running into the same thing? People who are pissed at the way they've been treated by the "Clinton supporters"? If you're willing to be pissed at a generic group some of which aren't guilty then why is what happened to you wrong? Didn't they just group you for what they think your group did?

There are rational people on both sides, there are jerks on both, and I've got a good guess as to why we're seeing so much of both these days. The Clinton camp feels let down by one thing or another so are on edge and the Obama camp feels they've got a nearly unbeatable lead and we're just risking the general from this point. Of course we'll have conflict. I'd also bet a lot of Clinton supporters feel let down by the candidate over recent days but are taking it out on us instead of her. Lots of things haven't been fair in this campaign and adding another to it won't help.

If your problem though was being grouped in and attacked for things you didn't do it might be helpful not to group others as well. They are no more monolithic than you and yours are so I'm not sure who this "Obama supporter" you're upset with is, or how it's any more fair than the attacks on a Clinton supporter, you, that you're upset with.

[bigtree]

65. This is just about how I've been treated personally. I can't really manage that feeling any more

by just telling myself that Obama supporters are being slammed too.

[Medusa]

68. It's a free country

and the OP is free to do what they feel they must. I feel I must continue to campaign and advocate for Obama whenever, wherever.

[Chicken George]

69. K&R

:kick:

[MadHound]

70. You yourself said that you have liked to mix it up

And from reading, and sometimes responding, to your postings, you like to play rough. Fine and good, but please, don't put on the poor pitiful Pauline routine when karma comes around and bites you in the ass. If you play rough and dump on people, you can only expect that they will dump right back on you.

Sorry, but you made your own bed, now you get to lie in it.

[bigtree]

82. I think there's a big difference between defensive jibes and the type of nonsense that passes here

I haven't opened up on more than a few folks without provocation. I'm really not that nasty in my responses.

So, I've made some critical posts about Obama. I've never considered wanton attacks on my character to be fair game. I just tolerate them more when I know I've made a provocative post. I don't think you've accurately described my behavior here. Even in my defensive posts, I haven't leveled the types of attacks that have made me shy of Obama folks. If you really think so you should show me. I'll readily apologize if my response was truly unprovoked.

[Warren Stupidity]

71. Maybe you can form a group: Former Clinton Supporters For Obama.

That way you will not have to associate with any of us unsavory types.

Seriously dude, don't you think the mudslinging has been coming from both directions?

[truedelphi]

72. I am sorry if you have been personally attacked

It's one thing to state reasons for not likely a candidate, or for preferring one candidate over another.

A personal attack is different.

[Coexist]

74. can you see this post?

just checking.

[bigtree]

95. yup.

. . . and I'm pretty quick on that ignore button these days. Consider that, would you?

[Blarch]

75. Ask your self WHY ?

Why the division ?

Hillary has taken a path that any true Democrat would never take. The praising of Rove, McCain, Rush, ect...The negative attacks, the lies, the spin. And now she has hung it all out there, she wants to preach about 'counting all the votes' ...but the only way she can win is if the votes are ignored.

Hillary and Bill are the reason for the division. There are many people who are very unhappy about the path she has taken.

Lets be honest now.

[Raine]

76. Supporters aren't my problem

I wish it were that simple, my problem is with Hillary herself. My supporting her is in doubt if somehow she manages to grab the nomination. :-(

[SammyWinstonJack]

103. I can't stand Obama! I will however vote for him in the GE. I won't like it, but I will.

x(

[RBInMaine]

77. And the Hillary people have been perfect little angels right??

[bigtree]

83. I can't manage the way I feel anymore by telling myself that someone else is getting slammed

on the other side. It's just not enough. This is toxic.

[Sinistrous]

78. Quoting the truck driver hauling a load of 10,000 toilet seats:

"There's a heck of a lot of assholes in the world."

And there are bunches of them in both camps these days, but they are nowhere near the majority in either.

Sinistrous

[Tatiana]

79. I know plenty of Obama supporters you can work with.

Most of them are former Clark supporters. You don't have to deal with people who personally attack you or conduct themselves in a disrespetful manner. There are loads of people (myself included) who would love to work with you.

Y'all are fighters and we need people like you on our team! McCain won't stand a chance! :hi:

[Citizen Kang]

84. I don't get it

your going to let some over-zealous Obama supporters on an anonymous bulletin board keep you from casting a vote for a person who will take this country back to respectability?

Look at the bigger picture here.

[bigtree]

97. no, my vote goes to the party. It's the idea of organizing here that gives me heartburn

But, I've been to work and back since I posted this. Typically, I've mellowed in the interim. We'll see what happens. I don't hold grudges long. This may pass, like everything else I get over.

[Lisa0825]

85. I understand how you feel....

from the other side.

I don't expect that to change your mind at all... I just wanted to say that I have similar feelings, so I do understand what you mean.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee no matter what, but I really don't think I could do more than that if Hillary wins, and part of that feeling is due to the animosity from Hillary supporters. Of course that is only part of it... I would never base a political decision on an internet board... but it is part of an overall impression I have about the campaign and the candidate.

[TTUBatfan2008]

89. bigtree...

My advice to you is just to start paying more attention to McCain.

This is a guy who was against waterboarding in late 2007, then voted for it in early 2008, then turned around just 2 or 3 weeks later on 60 Minutes and said he was against it. And the worst part? The idiotic interviewer didn't even call him on it. John McCain has received more of a free pass from the press than any other politician in the last 20+ years. He does barbecues for the press, so they put up with his temper and don't tell the American People about the fact that he's told fellow senators, "Fuck you" and "you're an asshole" as well as other hotheaded outbursts through the years. I'm personally afraid of the guy getting in the White House. Remember Cheney's "Fuck you" to Senator Leahy? McCain apparently has an even stronger temper and the Arizona press have been on the receiving end of it because they actually report the truth of his flip-flops, ignorance, and lies but the national media continues to give him a pass on everything. The man doesn't even know the difference between Sunnis and Shi'ites and the national media blows it off as "just" a misstatement even though he's said it (the Iran/Al Qaeda gaffe) quite a few times in prepared speeches. Combining his hothead temper with his war-mongering, ignorant beliefs regarding the Middle East, he scares the shit out of me. Just try to think about him more than the fighting that's going on in the Democratic Party right now. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm sick of the fighting and I think both candidates should just let the chips fall as they may. Don't campaign against each other. Campaign against McCain and let the voters go to the polls and the superdelegates decide. The negativity is unnecessary between the two camps as far as I'm concerned. At this point, attacking the other is a bit redundant. Both sides have voters that are pretty firmly entrenched. They're not winning over any new people at this point by attacking the other candidate. They should focus on McCain, try to force the damn MSM to finally treat this guy like the rest of the politicians. His own advisers admit that he gets treated better by the media than anyone else in politics. It's time for the Dems to start focusing on this.

[Laelth]

91. I hear you.

I am not defending rude and childish behavior, but I bet you'll find those Obama supporters are a lot nicer when (and if) Hillary Clinton drops out of the race and stops throwing the kitchen sink. The kitchen sink really does hurt when it hits you.

From her most recent rhetoric, it sounds like Hillary has decided to take a less-kitchen-sink approach. I remain skeptical that her congeniality will last. Nevertheless, I continue to believe that anyone who cares enough about the Democratic Party to post here will rally around and support the Democratic nominee in the Fall, hard feelings and all. There are, quite obviously, hard feelings on both sides.

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--minor grammatical change.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. You know I am neutral in this cat-fight... since I have no investment in either of the candidates

I just want the cat-fight to end.

That said... what you just posed could easily have been posed by the Obama supporters.

And this is why the cat-fight needs to end. before those hard feelings harden.

And that is the point I started making about a month ago, on and off, since GD-P is a cesspool and no HARD discussion of issues has actually occurred for months. And for this I blame both candidates.... the tone was set up by the campaigns.

What is amazing is that the analysts are now saying (for a week or so) what I have for a month or more, this cat-fight is not helping.

Now I am not too particular about who takes the nom, you know that... but truly what you just posted could have been posted by so many Obama partisans it is not even funny.

For the good of the COUNTRY... notice didn't say the party... this shit needs to stop and you all need to get in a hug and start seeing each other as fellow human beings... and work together.. there are way too many things at stake (USSC for starters), and we really cannot afford these divisions, mostly a he said\she said... to actually affect the way forwards.

Them polls are saying that it may... and that worries me.

Four more years of the same keeps me awake at night

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. You know I am neutral in this cat-fight... since I have no investment in either of the candidates

I just want the cat-fight to end.

That said... what you just posed could easily have been posed by the Obama supporters.

And this is why the cat-fight needs to end. before those hard feelings harden.

And that is the point I started making about a month ago, on and off, since GD-P is a cesspool and no HARD discussion of issues has actually occurred for months. And for this I blame both candidates.... the tone was set up by the campaigns.

What is amazing is that the analysts are now saying (for a week or so) what I have for a month or more, this cat-fight is not helping.

Now I am not too particular about who takes the nom, you know that... but truly what you just posted could have been posted by so many Obama partisans it is not even funny.

For the good of the COUNTRY... notice didn't say the party... this shit needs to stop and you all need to get in a hug and start seeing each other as fellow human beings... and work together.. there are way too many things at stake (USSC for starters), and we really cannot afford these divisions, mostly a he said\she said... to actually affect the way forwards.

Them polls are saying that it may... and that worries me.

Four more years of the same keeps me awake at night

[Vinca]

96. You take anonymous postings on Internet forums way too seriously.

Go outside, buy some flowers - this place is a tiny drop in the sea.

[cornermouse]

99. Vinca meet Vinca.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5292572

[Vinca]

108. Am I allowed to comment on posts? Is that forbidden?

How is that taking an Internet forum too seriously? I thought that was the point of a forum. If you get pouty and base all your real world decisions on it, that's taking it too seriously.

[joshcryer]

115. He's just illustrating how vile being anonymous can be.

:hi:

[mmonk]

100. Sorry you feel that way.

Time away from acrimonious posts or having a united purpose I hope will change your mind. You and I had Richardson at one time as a uniting factor. Remember that things and emotions are transient and fluid.

[bigtree]

101. Hey, I heard Powers might reappear on the trail. MSNBC yesterday. Hope it's true.

[mmonk]

104. That's interesting.

I hope she can be forgiven for her frustrated indiscretion. She doesn't hate Senator Clinton. She really has a good vision and a more whole approach to foreign affairs. She also has some of those qualities I've liked about Richardson such as face to face negotiation for settlements.

[Time for change]

106. I'm an Obama supporter who doesn't want to ostracize Clinton supporters

Nor do I like to see attacks on Hillary that will hurt her in the GE if she is the nominee.

I agree with you that there has been way too much vitriol -- from both sides. It really is a shame, and worst of all, it's increasing the likelihood of McCain getting elected.

[IsItJustMe]

107. You are making a huge mistake in lumping all Obama supporters together like that. You are dealing

in projection and not reality by doing so. I am a Obama supporter and I have never attacked Hillary supporters. I damn sure don't like Hillary, but the way I see it everyone has a right to their opinions, even if I don't agree with it.

It should never be personal, never.

[politicasista]

112. I agree

I also support Obama, but I have never attacked Hillary or her supporters here. And this is coming from a poster who's family that has soured on the Clintons.

[Bonobo]

111. Most have been neither angels nor devils but both. Human nature. Live or die with it.

[Joe the Revelator]

117. More whining. Look, if you can't be a grown up, then post somewhere else

You've seen primaries, you know how this goes, it was just magnified this year due to the (dare I saw unnecessary) prolongment of the primary season.