Kerry shouldn't have conceded, but Hillary should?

[gulliver]

Is it possible that many of the same people trying to browbeat Hillary into dropping out are the same people who ding Kerry for "conceding" in 2004. Hillary should stay in it until she has lost according to the rules. If she succumbed to the drumbeat of a bunch of drumbeaters, that wouldn't be very presidential. The baseless groaning against her staying in reminds me of that boorish "Sore Loserman" sentiment demonstrated so nauseatingly by Bush supporters in 2000. No Dem should ever go there.

If you have an opinion that Hillary should drop out, fine. Express the opinion. If you have a feeling she should drop out, that's just tough.

If Hillary had not stayed in, we would not have seen the Wright issue until the GE. Now, one of Obama's biggest wounds is on the mend rather than an October surprise.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. A major case of Apple and Oranges...

Figure it out, Sparky...:eyes:

[jgraz]

10. More like Apples and Unicorns.

[NewHampshireDem]

32. JGRAZ FTW!

:rofl:

[ProSense]

2. Curvy!

Meltdown!

Kooky!

[Orrex]

3. Kerry, by any practical measure, won

Clinton, by any practical measure, has lost--two very different situations. Her continued and futile presence in the race is a distraction from the real contest between the Democratic nominee and McCain.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. I know it pisses you guys off

but unless Obama has 2025 delegates, he hasn't won.

[nxylas]

13. Ah, the Huckabee defense

"I didn't major in math, I majored in miracles".

[wileedog]

17. Hillary CAN'T get 2025

without overturning the pledged delegate leader.

So the only way she can win is via the nightmare scenario for the party.

Is that what you are rooting for?

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Neither one

is going to get there without superdelegates, and there's no rule or expectation that superdelegates have to vote for the person with the greater lead among pledged delegates.

[Clovis Sangrail]

24. you're absolutely right

but it's also absolutely true that the supers should vote for the candidate that is in the lead unless there's a damned good reason not too.
Simply "liking" one candidate more isn't good enough.

If one of the current candidates leads in both delegates and the popular.. and the supers overturn the will of the people, I really hope the party does fracture into little pieces.
It would no longer be representing the will of the people and should be abolished.

[TheWraith]

27. There IS such an expectation.

Overruling the election results is counter-democratic.

[bunnies]

4. um.

Kerry was ahead and in a GE.
Hillary is behind and in a primary.

Where is the confusion?

[Botany]

5. Kerry won and Hillary is going to lose

kinda of different, no?

[karynnj]

14. Except Kerry had no bonafide proof to take to court

He also would not tear the country apart without that proof. Now, there is no mathematical way for HRC to have more delegates - she will at some point have to concede - it would be nice if she stopping destroying the party first.

[msallied]

7. Idiocy. n/t

[stray cat]

8. Conceding the nation to Bush versus a primary to Obama - not the same

[Mike03]

9. Maybe it's a moot point, because she won't. So many millions have been spent

on her campaign, that it would be awkward for her to quit at this point.

I just wish she would try harder to take the high road.

[Window]

23. Hillary can stay in as long as she wants as far as I am concerned.

She just needs to stop the divisiveness. She's looking and acting UGLY.

[TheWraith]

11. Difference is, we already know Hillary has lost.

There's no way she can win other than going the Bush 2000 route of overturning the election.

[enid602]

12. submit

One must always submit to Boy-Kings.

[bunnies]

15. In a different context,

I might have thought this post was clever.

[karynnj]

18. Pretty despicable

Obama is very likely to have more pledged delegates and a very significant portion of the superdelegates spoke of not overturning that. At some point, unless something happens, HRC will concede.

[Orrex]

25. What does that even mean?

Do you truly believe that one can only object to Clinton because she's a woman? Unless you are somehow using "Boy-Kings" as a curious metaphor for "the majority of the popular vote and the delegate count," then I don't have any idea of what you're talking about, and I'm not sure that you do, either.

Before primary season, and some of the way into primary season, I was entirely behind her. She seemed like the strongest candidate for the GE and also seemed like a viable leader.

Her behavior during the primaries, however, has demonstrated that she is neither the strongest candidate nor a viable leader.

Her endorsement of McCain over Obama is, all by itself, sufficient reason for me to dismiss her as a candidate, because it represents the explicit endorsement of Bush foreign policy, which in turn demonstrates a disastrous grasp of foreign policy and of the will of the people.

This has nothing to do with submitting to Boy-Kings, whatever that might mean in this context. This is simply a matter of Clinton reading the writing on the wall and choosing to withdraw gracefully rather than dragging the party through several more months of bitter infighting.

[knight_of_the_star]

16. The responses to this post are made of fail

[Mass]

20. No sense whatsoever. She is dividing the party and helping us lose the GE,

As for the Wright issue, it was clear from day 1. The only difference is that, rather than supporting Obama on these vile attacks, Hillary is helping the GOP by attacking Obama on the same issues (using the vast right wing corporation at her advantage).

Not sure what Kerry has to do with that, except that you see two different aspects: caring about the country (Kerry) or caring about oneself (Clinton).

[Occam Bandage]

21. Difference: Kerry was not actively damaging the Democratic chances to take the WH by staying in.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. I'm glad Walter Mondale conceded.

:shrug:

[JKaiser]

26. Just let the politics run its course.. it is almost over! BUT we need to unite now!

[pointsoflight]

28. The opponent is a republican in one case, a dem in the other.

That makes a huge difference if you're a dem voter, doesn't it?

[jgraz]

29. 5 recs for this? We will never run out of stupid

:banghead:

[fedupinBushcountry]

31. Jgraz

I absolutely agree. You see we can agree on some things. ;-) That is what Obama brings out the most, unity. :-)

[jgraz]

33. Honestly, I think most of the unity is being provided by Hillary

Who of us WON'T be popping champagne when she finally concedes?

[Asgaya Dihi]

30. Too bad we can't downvote a thread

This one is straight out of the twilight zone. Nobody even suggested that Hillary quit until she had posted public love letters to McCain and pulled a bunch of other crap that reduced the chances of EITHER candidate winning the election. If she ever did hate the "politics of personal destruction" she seems to have got over it. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was captured by the abuse she endured so Stockholm syndrome like doesn't remember what was wrong with the way she's been acting lately. I remember a couple who would have known though, and most of her supporters know she was doing something wrong too but supported her in it anyway. Speaking of kool-aid and personality cults.

If she had campaigned like a dem I'd have had no problem with her staying in until the 45th President was nominated, she could have hung out in the rose garden like a gnome or something. But with the way she's run her campaign it came down to a choice. Her, or the party and the future of our nation. I wasn't even an Obama supporter until after the Wright thing and am more a stop the crazy lady with the axe before she kills someone voter still.

[PATRICK]

34. Browbeating

Has been more from the Hillary campaign than the other way around. However you characterize it, the super delegates have been trying to stay out of the contest and have made the expected pleas, suggestions that the race be kept positive since nothing was going to change the results. Instead hillary has been putting them on the spot and into her pocket as the remaining method of obtaining the nomination. No way were they going to accept that, but all the messages and assertions only met with more resistance, donor petitions and escalations in negative campaigning.

So the next round of trying to make it clear to Hillary escalates in turn to more Obama endorsements and finally calls for her to quit. Not that quitting is the best or only thing but that it seems to be the only message her campaign can understand regarding super delegate adamance that they will NOT be on the hook or in play for the Convention.

The escalation for all intents or purposes HAS made the situation all or nothing for HRC. What is most desired by the party is a drawback from personal attacks. Any such pullback, added to campaign bankruptcy will signal the end anyway. She might as well endorse Obama as soldier on, but either choice is a matter of what influence she is seeking to salvage. As a polite foil to Obama, which is what she might be downgraded to overnight she might help Obama build organization in the coming states(as she tries to clip coupons to sustain her role). Obama's money is not being wasted.

The real choices and pushing are about ending the negative contest and closing all the backdoors. So what is done for effect is in fact the suggestion. Dropping out is only a matter of facing reality.